What to do, what to do, points are building up in RCI and Wyndham and no one using them

[RENTER]

Renting is once again steadily growing. Look on the various rental sites, not just EH and Vacationshare, and in the Facebook groups that allow rentals.

I, among others, doubted or flat out didn't believe @RENTER. Looks like he can say "I told you so" just like I'm saying about my assertions that Wyndham wouldn't succeed or follow through with putting a stop to owners renting. My assertion was that once again they'd stop the big renters but those renters would be replaced by a multitude of smaller renters. I also maintained that a number of those smaller renters would expand their renting once they figured out how to do it and got a taste of the money.

One of my repeated comments was owners renting too cheap were a problem. Does even a day go by that someone in the Facebook groups isn't posting contact me for rentals or I have x number of points left we can't use, my price is $6, $7 or $8 per thousand points? Not many owners have maintenance fees of even $6 per thousand maintenance fees anymore. CWA owners pay $8.88 or $8.86. That's the 2025 maintenance fees of $8.13 plus the program fee of $0.73 or $0.75 per thousand points as long as they over the minimum program fee.

It's been months since I've seen anyone post here or in the various Wyndham Facebook groups I belong to that they or an owner they know got a certified letter.

I believed it backfired on them. We were bringing into lot of people to their resorts and while was income to them. After the crackdown, it seems to me, and I could be wrong that not as many people were going to the resorts. That would be why you are seeing a lot of discounts or them offering rooms at all different sites such as Groupon. My strategy is bringing people into resorts during mud season which were not in high demand. I am no threat to those who wanted high demand resorts in peak season. Anything I earn goes to them. Which may be the reason they allow me to continue.

I always thought the Owner Priority period and no longer being able to get VIP benefits for resales was the perfect compromise and that they should let people be able to rent. In fact they should embrace it and team up with the online rental sites who are having problems with local governments passing laws that are preventing short term timeshare rentals because of problems in residential neighborhoods. Timeshares are already zoned and inspected for short term rentals and are a perfect match.

But as we see with companies like Bud Light and Harley, there does not seem to be much common sense in the corporate world anymore.

 

[iftravel]

Trying to decide where to use our Developer Wyndham points. We have a lot, two accounts, one much better than the other, especially with the PIC weeks we have, but what use are points if you don't use them and they get rolled over to another year or banked into RCI? I don't even like RCI anymore.

I always thought we could get a little bit for our Wyndham points that are deeded to Kauai resorts, but doubtful we will get anything at all for them. I need to be done completely with Wyndham for my own sanity. It's been crazy what Wyndham has done to stop people from renting, and our account is scrutinized for any addition of a guest name.

I cannot think of anything Wyndham has that is worthy of keeping. Shearwater is wonderful but I can get that through exchange, but it can be difficult to get. Bonnet Creek is nice, but the Marriott resorts near Disney are great, and exchanges into Disney resorts sometimes work for our dates, so Bonnet Creek is not a reason to keep Wyndham. Wisconsin Dells would be nice to go once in a while, but it's not close to home and requires flights to get there. Never stayed in Avon, might be nice to try it, but the parking fees are a turnoff for owners. Steamboat Springs is okay but Sheraton is nicer.

This is exactly why we didn't build a cabin on our land in South Park, CO, because I pictured myself (even had dreams/ nightmares about it) leaving the cabin to rot because I'd be bored going there and then the resulting guilt of not using what we paid a lot to build. The guilt of paying fees for what we aren't using is getting to be overwhelming.

I have a suggestion. Set up a ThirdHome account and they will be happy to take your Wyndham Hawaii deposits. You book a mansion-size home somewhere nice to host a family get together every once while - think you have a huge family too.

You will easily burn several million points that way and it’s a totally different experience than timeshare.

 

[paxsarah]

It's been months since I've seen anyone post here or in the various Wyndham Facebook groups I belong to that they or an owner they know got a certified letter.

Just yesterday. Wyndham’s still slapping owners who rent.

 

[Jan M.]

Just yesterday. Wyndham’s still slapping owners who rent.

View attachment 107740

I saw that FB post this morning! This is the first time we've seen anything in awhile. I was beginning to wonder if Wyndham had decided to not continue with what they're doing.

After the June, 2024, owners meeting, several of us talked with Jessica Swift, who is in charge of Owner Stategies, and her second in command. She said they are actively monitoring the accounts of owners who've received the letters. There are certain things that flag those accounts for them to look into and send another letter with a suspension from being able to add guest names. Also that they're continuing to look into other owners accounts who've triggered certain flags and send them first time letters. However identifying more owners is proceeding more slowly now. I can't remember if it was stated or inferred that there aren't as many people assigned to assist as there were when this started.

We asked what exactly constitutes commercial renting and that went as expected. Wyndham decides based on criteria they aren't disclosing. It can be one or more things. She said yes it can be how many guest confirmations we use for the number of points we own and/or the percentage of our points we put guest confirmations on. Neither of those figures are divulged to owners. It can be the number of reservations we make and don't use or don't cancel, or cancel right at the 15 day window. Which gives the appearance of renting. And yes, certain resorts do report owners they suspect of frequently checking in for guests.

When asked about renting, the answer was of course owners can rent and that's what EH and VS are there for. Which is understandable as Wyndham wants their cut. It sure sounded like you could rent using all your points but only if you used Wyndham's programs.

We said Wyndham's rental programs need improved. Like the liberal cancellation policies on the other rental sites Wyndham has expanded to using are a real problem for the owners who use EH and VS. They apparently don't notify Wyndham of the cancellations until after the check in date has passed. We suggested that if the buyer wanted to be able to cancel they should be offered the option to purchase that. Like we can opt to purchase points protection.

We said we're hearing more and more owners say they've lost hundreds of thousands of points. How whenever using their programs comes up in online groups or in person discussions there's so much negativity that anyone who's had a positive experience is considered the exception.

We went on to question stays being rented for less than than anyone's maintenance fees or standard of $12 per thousand if we rent points. That it was our understanding that one of Wyndham's goals with their programs option was to maintain the value of the product and the cheap rentals too many owners were doing undermined that. That sales heard all too often "why should I buy when I can rent cheaply from an owner?" From what I'm now seeing owners saying apparently Wyndham is now renting their own stays just as cheap or cheaper in some cases.

Next we brought up the lack of notification when the buyer cancels early enough on that the owner could still cancel the reservation and get their points back or pull the listing to use it themselves. Also the payments to owners were lagging far behind the timeframe the agreement specifies. That a month or longer beyond that window, and after repeated phone calls, owners are being told that payments were running behind; you'll get paid. Then finally told it looks like your reservation must not have rented after all. If the programs were being well run, there's no way it should take that long to know. And to deliver payments on time.

I brought up seeing owners now saying Wyndham approved them renting on other sites that Wyndham or T&L partners with. Her expression changed and she changed the subject so I didn't pursue it as I didn't want her to end the conversation.

I've said before that I have no problem with rules. Nor do I'd guess with few exceptions, all Wyndham owners. Here's the thing about rules.
1. They're defined, explained. Not capricious.
2. They're made openly available so everyone knows what they are because transparency is essential.
3. If changes are made, that information is made available to everyone.
4. They apply equally to everyone all the time. There's no discrimination in to whom, how, or when they're applied.

 

[bnoble]

1: They probably are defined, but they will never be explained.
2: See #1
3: See #1
4: This could be true now, but we'll never know. See #1

The very last thing Wyndham wants to do is to give owners clarity about how to stay just inside the lines. The fact that the lines are blurry is a feature for Wyndham, not a bug.

 

[RENTER]

Just yesterday. Wyndham’s still slapping owners who rent.

View attachment 107740

Airbnb has contacted me to help those who had their Wyndham reservations cancelled by the owner. When I checked out the owner, I found thousands of reviews in just a few years. So it is safe to assume they are truly doing it as a commercial business and not to cover their costs and that Wyndham banned them from renting.

I teach them to look at the review. If there are thousands, that is way too much for an owner just covering costs and will attract Wyndham's attention.

Wyndham knows how much I earn on Airbnb and can match what I pay them. Common sense will tell them they are making the money off my rentals and not me. Which may be why they allow me to continue.

Don't forget some have had their guest passes cancelled because they do not use the resorts at all. It may be because of medical reasons, but unfortunately they will appear to be a commercial operation.

 

[RENTER]

Renting is once again steadily growing. Look on the various rental sites, not just EH and Vacationshare, and in the Facebook groups that allow rentals.

I, among others, doubted or flat out didn't believe @RENTER. Looks like he can say "I told you so" just like I'm saying about my assertions that Wyndham wouldn't succeed or follow through with putting a stop to owners renting. My assertion was that once again they'd stop the big renters but those renters would be replaced by a multitude of smaller renters. I also maintained that a number of those smaller renters would expand their renting once they figured out how to do it and got a taste of the money.

One of my repeated comments was owners renting too cheap were a problem. Does even a day go by that someone in the Facebook groups isn't posting contact me for rentals or I have x number of points left we can't use, my price is $6, $7 or $8 per thousand points? Not many owners have maintenance fees of even $6 per thousand maintenance fees anymore. CWA owners pay $8.88 or $8.86. That's the 2025 maintenance fees of $8.13 plus the program fee of $0.73 or $0.75 per thousand points as long as they over the minimum program fee.

It's been months since I've seen anyone post here or in the various Wyndham Facebook groups I belong to that they or an owner they know got a certified letter.

Thank you Jan, I am going to share what you said on the stock market threads. Like here I am having heated arguments with people. Why? Because I shared with people my simple concept that an 8th grader should understand that protects me doing downturns, eliminates the rollercoaster ride while still producing stock market results over the long term.

Like here I was viciously attacked. So sad that people listen to them. My simple system would help many who are suffering now. Not that hard to do, it is free, requires 5 minutes a day and they can do it themselves.

Like here I do not sit back and take it. They start name calling and I return it. Then they whine I am name calling. For the past few weeks, I rub it in their faces how well my system is working as the market falls.

Some of the same people I argue with here I also argue with them there. Attacking someone for sharing a simple system they developed for themselves, and they share with other people to help them should tell you something about the attackers.

 

[WManning]

I saw that FB post this morning! This is the first time we've seen anything in awhile. I was beginning to wonder if Wyndham had decided to not continue with what they're doing.

After the June, 2024, owners meeting, several of us talked with Jessica Swift, who is in charge of Owner Stategies, and her second in command. She said they are actively monitoring the accounts of owners who've received the letters. There are certain things that flag those accounts for them to look into and send another letter with a suspension from being able to add guest names. Also that they're continuing to look into other owners accounts who've triggered certain flags and send them first time letters. However identifying more owners is proceeding more slowly now. I can't remember if it was stated or inferred that there aren't as many people assigned to assist as there were when this started.

We asked what exactly constitutes commercial renting and that went as expected. Wyndham decides based on criteria they aren't disclosing. It can be one or more things. She said yes it can be how many guest confirmations we use for the number of points we own and/or the percentage of our points we put guest confirmations on. Neither of those figures are divulged to owners. It can be the number of reservations we make and don't use or don't cancel, or cancel right at the 15 day window. Which gives the appearance of renting. And yes, certain resorts do report owners they suspect of frequently checking in for guests.

When asked about renting, the answer was of course owners can rent and that's what EH and VS are there for. Which is understandable as Wyndham wants their cut. It sure sounded like you could rent using all your points but only if you used Wyndham's programs.

We said Wyndham's rental programs need improved. Like the liberal cancellation policies on the other rental sites Wyndham has expanded to using are a real problem for the owners who use EH and VS. They apparently don't notify Wyndham of the cancellations until after the check in date has passed. We suggested that if the buyer wanted to be able to cancel they should be offered the option to purchase that. Like we can opt to purchase points protection.

We said we're hearing more and more owners say they've lost hundreds of thousands of points. How whenever using their programs comes up in online groups or in person discussions there's so much negativity that anyone who's had a positive experience is considered the exception.

We went on to question stays being rented for less than than anyone's maintenance fees or standard of $12 per thousand if we rent points. That it was our understanding that one of Wyndham's goals with their programs option was to maintain the value of the product and the cheap rentals too many owners were doing undermined that. That sales heard all too often "why should I buy when I can rent cheaply from an owner?" From what I'm now seeing owners saying apparently Wyndham is now renting their own stays just as cheap or cheaper in some cases.

Next we brought up the lack of notification when the buyer cancels early enough on that the owner could still cancel the reservation and get their points back or pull the listing to use it themselves. Also the payments to owners were lagging far behind the timeframe the agreement specifies. That a month or longer beyond that window, and after repeated phone calls, owners are being told that payments were running behind; you'll get paid. Then finally told it looks like your reservation must not have rented after all. If the programs were being well run, there's no way it should take that long to know. And to deliver payments on time.

I brought up seeing owners now saying Wyndham approved them renting on other sites that Wyndham or T&L partners with. Her expression changed and she changed the subject so I didn't pursue it as I didn't want her to end the conversation.

I've said before that I have no problem with rules. Nor do I'd guess with few exceptions, all Wyndham owners. Here's the thing about rules.
1. They're defined, explained. Not capricious.
2. They're made openly available so everyone knows what they are because transparency is essential.
3. If changes are made, that information is made available to everyone.
4. They apply equally to everyone all the time. There's no discrimination in to whom, how, or when they're applied.

Talking about it on TUGG jinxed all the renters again. Rember the good old days when @ronparise could boast about renting and exploiting loopholes in the system? Man those were the days when it was common to hear "why should I buy when I can rent cheaper than owning?" Sounds like Wyndham wanted to eliminate competition. It surprises me that they are under valuing the $12/1000 they charge owners to rent points when needed. But they also set resale value at $0/1000 when taking back with certified exit. Very suprised that owners are saying Wyndham is now renting their own stays just as cheap or cheaper in some cases. Maybe @RENTER is right and sales dropped off substantially when all the easy marks supplied from cheap rentals were eliminated. The rentals provided a continous supply to sales with prospects that were easily convinced to buy.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I've said before that I have no problem with rules. Nor do I'd guess with few exceptions, all Wyndham owners. Here's the thing about rules.
1. They're defined, explained. Not capricious.
2. They're made openly available so everyone knows what they are because transparency is essential.
3. If changes are made, that information is made available to everyone.
4. They apply equally to everyone all the time. There's no discrimination in to whom, how, or when they're applied.

Sorry I couldn't make the meeting last year in person - who have loved to have seen you both again. Overall, every time this topic comes up, I pitch the F&F feature. If Wyndham built functionality to allow owners to allocate points to defined buckets - and then allow us to assign certain capabilities within said buckets - that feature would provide clear rules of engagement for everyone. Want to have a family member or close friend be able to use points on an ongoing basis? Create them in your account, assign a points allocation (up to a certain ceiling for example), and then assign them the ability to create reservations that would automatically consume a GC (or perhaps for VIP owners - allow up to X number of F&F without having to use GCs - the higher the VIP tier the more slots you get). This same feature could be used for rentals. Create a rental bucket - and either assign it to EH/VS as an option (up to a certain points threshold - no GCs required IIRC). Want to use a third party such as AirBnB? If Wyndham has an agreement - choose that option from a drop-down list and it all just works like it should. Want to use a points manager? Create a rental bucket and assign the points manager email and give it the rights to use the points to create reservations and consume up to a certain threshold of points and GCs. Point being, it'd be some work to create this kind of parent/child accounts association without a doubt, but once it's done, the rules are all clearly defined - if there's a maximum percentage of overall points that can be used for rentals, or GCs, or whatever the thresholds are, the system is programmed with those rules in place.

 

[bnoble]

Looks like Wyndham very much is still in the business of sending nastygrams.

condo cancelled no place to stay

I was renting a condo from somebody and i went to put money down to start paying so i could have it all paid off ahead of time.i went to pay and some reason it would not let me.mind you i put my deposit down and had a sign contract and all set.wel come today and couldnt pay so i called him and...

www.disboards.com

 

[HitchHiker71]

Talking about it on TUGG jinxed all the renters again. Rember the good old days when @ronparise could boast about renting and exploiting loopholes in the system? Man those were the days when it was common to hear "why should I buy when I can rent cheaper than owning?" Sounds like Wyndham wanted to eliminate competition. It surprises me that they are under valuing the $12/1000 they charge owners to rent points when needed. But they also set resale value at $0/1000 when taking back with certified exit. Very suprised that owners are saying Wyndham is now renting their own stays just as cheap or cheaper in some cases. Maybe @RENTER is right and sales dropped off substantially when all the easy marks supplied from cheap rentals were eliminated. The rentals provided a continous supply to sales with prospects that were easily convinced to buy.

VOI sales have increased YoY - it's an easy thing to check at any time - just use the investor relations section of the T&L website and look at the latest financial results:

Investors

Travel + Leisure Co. is the world’s leading membership and leisure travel company, with a portfolio of nearly 20 resort, travel club, and lifestyle travel brands. The company provides outstanding vacation experiences and travel inspiration…

www.travelandleisureco.com

 

[dioxide45]

I can't remember if it was stated or inferred that there aren't as many people assigned to assist as there were when this started.

I seem to recall that it isn't a dedicated staff. The same people looking at potential violations are also doing other work. So I suspect, as we've seen, these types of things might go in waves.

 

[Jan M.]

Sorry I couldn't make the meeting last year in person - who have loved to have seen you both again. Overall, every time this topic comes up, I pitch the F&F feature. If Wyndham built functionality to allow owners to allocate points to defined buckets - and then allow us to assign certain capabilities within said buckets - that feature would provide clear rules of engagement for everyone. Want to have a family member or close friend be able to use points on an ongoing basis? Create them in your account, assign a points allocation (up to a certain ceiling for example), and then assign them the ability to create reservations that would automatically consume a GC (or perhaps for VIP owners - allow up to X number of F&F without having to use GCs - the higher the VIP tier the more slots you get). This same feature could be used for rentals. Create a rental bucket - and either assign it to EH/VS as an option (up to a certain points threshold - no GCs required IIRC). Want to use a third party such as AirBnB? If Wyndham has an agreement - choose that option from a drop-down list and it all just works like it should. Want to use a points manager? Create a rental bucket and assign the points manager email and give it the rights to use the points to create reservations and consume up to a certain threshold of points and GCs. Point being, it'd be some work to create this kind of parent/child accounts association without a doubt, but once it's done, the rules are all clearly defined - if there's a maximum percentage of overall points that can be used for rentals, or GCs, or whatever the thresholds are, the system is programmed with those rules in place.

Richelle was there for part of the discussion but had to leave.

We brought up Friends & Family. Mentioned that various options for how it could be done had been discussed in the owner groups. Like paying a fee and a maximum number of names per year owners could put on their list. That Wyndham might not have gotten the amount nor type of feedback they were looking for in that survey they did because not everyone got the survey. Also said that there's many owners who don't have that many points so rarely, if ever, would want or make use of the option to have a Friends and Family list. It's my guess that they had a lot of owners who objected to the idea of having to pay to have a F&F list because that's why we get however many free guest certificates. And why should we have to pay to be able to use them so we don't give the appearance of renting.

For those of you who might not know, RCI Weeks accounts have the F&F option. RCI Points account don't. Since Wyndham does own RCI, F&F isn't a new concept to them. However as many of us are aware, Wyndham departments are plagued with the silo issue.

I'd like to see Wyndham do a better survey and one that they get responses from a larger percentage of owners. I would ask the following.

1. Do you have enough points to be able to send friends and family?
2. Do you send friends and family enough that you would make use of the option if it were available?

I'd put those surveys responding no to either question in a separate folder.

3. Would you like to see Wyndham offer a Friends & Family option on a one or possibly two year trial basis.
4. What should be the maximum number of names an owner can list per year, 3, 4, 6?
5. What do you think the maximum amount per name should be, $49, $69?
6. Would you be interested in a flat fee of $129 for 3 F&F names or $199 for 5 names? It would be good for 1 year and the names would have to be added at that time.
7. If the flat fee wasn't offered or the owner didn't opt to do it, would all the maximum number of names have to be listed and paid for at the start of the year or could they be added if and when needed?
8. If there was a maximum of say 3 or 4 names, would you like to see Gold VIP able to have one additional name? Platinum two additional names and Founders three?

@HitchHiker71 might be better able to answer this. If the names could be added if and when needed, would the term need to be for however much was left of the calendar year? Or could it be for a year from the date added? Would a year from the date added likely be an accounting/tracking issue for the system?

I purposely left off being able to remove one name on the list and pay the fee to list a different name. That could lead to problems with making renting easy.

 

[Sandi Bo]

I find it interesting / amazing marketing/approach by Wyndham - they have managed to throw shade on individual owners (letters/owner priority) when surely they are the #1 renter. Throw all this shade - yet who but Wyndham could possibly be doing rentals such as on groupon or these free vacation certificates, etc? I don't understand travelocity - but don't know how listings would get there but by Wyndham (maybe airbnb or VRBO route things there? just guessing). Brilliant on their part - and it continues...

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

 

[bnoble]

Because they are the developer, they wrote the governing documents, those documents explicitly state that they make the rules, and we all should have understood that when we bought.

This is not complicated.

 

[Zeke_62]

F&F is too complicated. It seems most here would just like to be able to use the GPs that were provided! Keep it simple.

Allow use of the free provided - both for resale and developer. Then maybe allow resale to purchase up to the same number as what developer receive?

 

[paxsarah]

I guess the question is what issue is being solved with friends and family? Or if "all of the above," which is the priority?

• Use fewer guest certificates
• Increase functional number of guest allowances
• Prevent certain guests from triggering a "commercial" designation
• Others?

 

[Floridaman76]

If Wyndham allowed owners to register or somehow document owners relatives somewhere in the account in a way that doesn't make them part of the ownership, but at the same time trigger the "renter" suspiction, I would think that would solve the issue.

Especially persons with the same last name as the owners. Will certain people try to abuse the hell out of this? Probably. Will it help legitimate owners get around the "owner priority" issue specifically for family? Yeah, probably.

There's definitely ways to do it though, like limit the total number of people on this list, perhaps allow you to change the list periodically. Maybe even changing the names constantly could trigger a review.

This takes effort and time, and manpower. Maybe AI can help?

Anyway, this is a non-issue for me, as I've only used a handful of GC's since ever becoming an owner and it's just been for my immediately family. But I can see the upside for some people.

|But cynically see the potential for abuse. There's no denying that since Wyndham implemented these changes that it's been a net positive for the overwhelming majority of owners in terms of availability.

 

[Zeke_62]

I think it was 2023 owners meeting where they showed the number of owners had decreased and the increase in sales was from current members who bought more. Was this data presented in 2024? With Wyndham stopping certified exit, it would seem the number of people returning contracts is exceeding the number purchasing. Without renters, there are fewer non-owners to go to the presentations. Therefore, fewer potential new members.

 

[paxsarah]

Without renters

Renters sent by individual owners are surely outnumbered by renters that come through Wyndham's rental channels. I don't think Wyndham is at any loss for fresh meat at resorts.

 

[dioxide45]

The issue I could see with F&F is with owners just setting up fake F&F accounts in the names of their renters then just logging in as the F&F and making the necessary reservation. For every change Wyndham makes, there is an intuitive owner out there finding ways around it.

 

[Floridaman76]

The issue I could see with F&F is with owners just setting up fake F&F accounts in the names of their renters then just logging in as the F&F and making the necessary reservation. For every change Wyndham makes, there is an intuitive owner out there finding ways around it.

Owners with noticeable "churn" in their friends and family list would be extremely easy to flag. Especially with last names differing wildly from the owners last names. So I believe there would be a pretty easy mechanism to reign this in. The question is if there's a will to do it, or the necessary resources (staff) to do it.

Which the answer may be no, and their current sledgehammer approach may be what you are stuck with.

Also, another thing is eliminate friends, but only have family, limit the numbers which can be on it.

Like I said, one of my sons (the only one over 21), mom and dad and brother have been the only people I have ever used GC's on. Most legit "family" would not be a huge number.

At least if the intent here is to actually have family use it, and not create new loopholes for mega renters or people like RENTER to exploit.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I guess the question is what issue is being solved with friends and family? Or if "all of the above," which is the priority?

• Use fewer guest certificates
• Increase functional number of guest allowances
• Prevent certain guests from triggering a "commercial" designation
• Others?

It creates an entire system construct in which the rules are known and clearly communicated to everyone - and the construct enforces those rules easily. The reason Wyndham will never clearly communicate their rules today is because if they did, those with commercial rental interests would easily be able to fly under the radar with those rules clearly known. By creating a construct, the system itself enforces the rules - not just communicates those rules but also enforces every one of the rules. The answer would be "all of the above" because the construct would both create the rules within the system, and enforce them via the features built for the owners. If Wyndham wanted to provide more flexibility with the rules for VIP owners that have invested the most into the system, then the tiered VIP model could be easily programmed to provide more leniency for VIP owners that want to rent points reliably and without fear of reprisal. For example, non-VIP owners can only use 25% of their points for rentals along with up to two GCs for rentals, while those numbers ratchet up based upon the higher VIP tiers. Same with allocating points to F&F members. A VIPF member would have higher allocations for percent of overall points and/or number of GCs/GAs (or number of F&F child accounts that don't require a GC/GA). For non-VIP owners and/or resale only owners - they may not have any F&F access, or paid only access compared to VIP owners.

 

[HitchHiker71]

If Wyndham allowed owners to register or somehow document owners relatives somewhere in the account in a way that doesn't make them part of the ownership, but at the same time trigger the "renter" suspiction, I would think that would solve the issue.

Especially persons with the same last name as the owners. Will certain people try to abuse the hell out of this? Probably. Will it help legitimate owners get around the "owner priority" issue specifically for family? Yeah, probably.

There's definitely ways to do it though, like limit the total number of people on this list, perhaps allow you to change the list periodically. Maybe even changing the names constantly could trigger a review.

This takes effort and time, and manpower. Maybe AI can help?

Anyway, this is a non-issue for me, as I've only used a handful of GC's since ever becoming an owner and it's just been for my immediately family. But I can see the upside for some people.

|But cynically see the potential for abuse. There's no denying that since Wyndham implemented these changes that it's been a net positive for the overwhelming majority of owners in terms of availability.

Adding/removing F&Fs would have limits, and would require authentication and likely some kind of proof of identity by the recipient. Like you said, where there's a will there's a way. It's not rocket science. Many systems provide this type of functionality today. You can add authorized users to credit card accounts, just one example, and control the level of access those authorized users have to the account and how much they can spend as a subset of the total limit on the card account. That's a parent/child construct in use today, one of many.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I think it was 2023 owners meeting where they showed the number of owners had decreased and the increase in sales was from current members who bought more. Was this data presented in 2024? With Wyndham stopping certified exit, it would seem the number of people returning contracts is exceeding the number purchasing. Without renters, there are fewer non-owners to go to the presentations. Therefore, fewer potential new members.

This has been the case of the last several years - a consolidating ownership base. This actually makes my argument for F&F more applicable, fewer owners buying larger subsets of the points allocations within the system, will want more flexibility in consuming those points if they are going to add more points.

I'm not aware of Wyndham stopping CE though? They are being a bit more selective about what they're taking back these days from what we've observed, but the program itself is still active.