What is this called.?????

[bogey21]

They did not promise you or anyone else in writing that they would help you sell your timeshare unit or promise you or anyone else in writing that the value of your unit would increase.

I'm not sure this statement is correct. I am long gone from Marriott but I originally bought pre-construction at Sabal Palms, the first TS built by Marriott. I later bought pre-construction at Harbour Club and Heritage Club on HHI. My recollection is that at one point or another I received written info regarding their Rental and Resale Programs. My recollection is also that this documentation explained how Marriott would set (fix) the prices on resales. I could be wrong. It was a long time ago. What I do know is that the one Week (Sabal Palms) that I sold through the original Marriott Resale Program was at a price higher than I paid for the Week.

George

 

[abdibile]

Phuket Beach Club Owner, why are you repeating the same arguemtns in long post over and over again without listening to what helpful TUG members are saying?

You do not own anything that went up in value. You where sold a right and most of the moeny you paid went into marketing and sales. This money is gone forever.

The true market value of a Platinum Phuket Beach Club week is around $3,500 which is what they sold for on eBay this year.

I am sure you can sell one for more money if you wait outside the sales center at the resort and talk to people who just had their timeshare presentation. If you do not do it too obviously, no one will stop you from trying to go this path.

I am sure the really expensive Asia Pacific Points Club helps you getting a higher price as people will compare your asking price with what a week would cost them through the Points Club.

Why should Marriott sell your week for a comission if they can sell the points club for much more profit?

This is a free market and you are free to try to sell your week at any price you can get! But you can not expect someone to help you by hard-selling it to holidaymakers. If Marriott is able to get way more from new owners than cost to build they are creating value through a great resort surrounding, management, psoitive holiday feelings and hard-selling tactics the benefit from this value creation should only go to Marriott.

This is like Apple getting more from buyers than it costs them to build an iPhone. You can not expect that they help you sell your old iPhone to new buyers.

Go try to do it yourself!

 

[SueDonJ]

I think the OP genuinely believes that s/he has paperwork to back up her/his claims that Marriott guaranteed a certain value of and resale mechanism for his/her timeshare, as well as a governance board at the resort that is not what's in place now. Does it really matter if nobody else believes any of that, or if other owners of his/her resort say that they do not have the same paperwork? Overall, I don't think it matters one bit, because nobody here can do anything to force Marriott to respond to his/her claims.

What will matter is whether or not the OP does have something in writing from Marriott that can be enforced regardless of Marriott's statements to the contrary, and generally that means that a qualified legal expert will need to be engaged to make it happen. OP, find a qualified attorney and ask him/her to review your paperwork and then follow the guidance you receive, which should be either, "yes, you have a case against Marriott, if you hire me I'll start by writing a letter to their legal department," or, "no, sorry, you don't have anything in writing to support your claim so it's useless to waste your money trying to fight Marriott's stance." If you do find any attorney willing to take your case based on its merits and NOT on the attorney's desire to line his pockets with money you're wasting in a futile effort, that's the time to post on the internet in an effort to encourage other owners to join you in a class action suit.

 

[Lets have less Greed]

SueDon1 makes a good point

SueDon 1 make's indeed valid points

The issue is most likey not with Marriott , but with the Sponsor MaiKao Vacation Villas,,, MVCI trough a Thai subsidiary was only the Appointed Sales Agent ,through another subsidiary MVCI Europe was the operator of the Phuket Beach Club. My papers are with MaiKao Vacation villas /part ofMinor international. MVCI Europe is aware of some document issues with the first owners , however even the later owners need to be treaded fair.it was originally a key selling point the potential asset growth , Yes ther where risks, THE ASSET VALUE HAS GROWN AND IS EXCELLENT ( remember Hawaii was going at 48 000 and Phuket at 25000 with a then much lower Maitenance than other resorts in 2000' however the unauthorized not needed block sale to Asia Pacific points , has caused ceasing of the plan to do a resale at the phuket Beach Club.
This was told to many by not just sales members but senior
Poeple, this over period of 5 years ( of Yes I could sell the units with a sandwich board in the Lobby however with Asia Pacif points in the lobby as well it would be a mess, and than comes the first right of refusal by the Sponsor

The Asset value "and the maintenance cost is up"however there are significant hurdles implemented so there can only be one winner, and that's the STING

Yes my tread is lengthy ,one however has to read the full details

I do not complain about this resort , this is a superb resort , I am preparing for the next step ,this forum has giving me some god points and some points which are perhaps driven by other motives or Spins.

Now since the Thai law has changed MVCIASIA PACIFIC owns now the not so popular resort.through this subsidiary the purschased ,against the charter a block was purschased at the Phuket Beach Club ( we are almost certain the Thai sponsor minor is still the owner of the Phuket Beach Club Realestate

 

[Lets have less Greed]

SueDon1 makes a good point

SueDon 1 make's indeed valid points

The issue is most likey not with Marriott , but with the Sponsor MaiKao Vacation Villas,,, MVCI trough a Thai subsidiary was only the Appointed Sales Agent ,through another subsidiary MVCI Europe was the operator of the Phuket Beach Club. My papers are with MaiKao Vacation villas /part ofMinor international. MVCI Europe is aware of some document issues with the first owners , however even the later owners need to be treaded fair.it was originally a key selling point the potential asset growth , Yes ther where risks, THE ASSET VALUE HAS GROWN AND IS EXCELLENT ( remember Hawaii was going at 48 000 and Phuket at 25000 with a then much lower Maitenance than other resorts in 2000' however the unauthorized not needed block sale to Asia Pacific points , has caused ceasing of the plan to do a resale at the phuket Beach Club.
This was told to many by not just sales members but senior
Poeple, this over period of 5 years ( of Yes I could sell the units with a sandwich board in the Lobby however with Asia Pacif points in the lobby as well it would be a mess, and than comes the first right of refusal by the Sponsor

The Asset value "and the maintenance cost is up"however there are significant hurdles implemented so there can only be one winner, and that's the STING

Yes my tread is lengthy ,one however has to read the full details

I do not complain about this resort , this is a superb resort , I am preparing for the next step ,this forum has giving me some god points and some points which are perhaps driven by other motives or Spins.

Now since the Thai law has changed MVCIASIA PACIFIC owns now the not so popular resort.through this subsidiary the purschased ,against the charter a block was purschased at the Phuket Beach Club ( we are almost certain the Thai sponsor minor is still the owner of the Phuket Beach Club Realestate

 

[fizzysoup]

Legal Documents & Value of Resale Weeks

MLCA 0990 you are aware of some detail, which even present members of the advisory commitee are in the dark.

I am not sure I should wade in here, however as a current member of the PBC Advisory Board I think the above quote is a little harsh.

I agree that MALC9990 is more informed than most, if not all regarding the detail of his own timeshare purchases, and indeed the specific scenarios pertaining to PBC/MKB/MVCAP

As you know I am familiar with some details specific to this case.

I understand that possibly 500 individuals purchased a week or weeks at PBC between 2000 & the end of 2002! I also understand that the initial Legal Documents are different from those in existence for the majority of owners. My own Legal Documents which contain 'The Charter' of the PBC is dated as follows:- Revised January 31st 2003, so by inference there appears to have been an earlier version.

However the PBC Advisory Board was set up in late 2003 & had its inaugural meeting in early 2004, and was guided by the current set of 'Legal Documents'

I believe an earlier version of 'Legal Documents' may have contained an Exhibit E entitled "Charter of Phuket Beach Club Association", whereas my version simply states "Charter Phuket Beach Club" & Chapter I under 'General Provisions' has 3 paragraphs.

The earlier version appears to also have 3 paragraphs, but under paragraph 3 there are 6 sub paragraphs (3.1 to 3.6) which would appear to give the 'Association' much more power than exists today, including budgetary approval rights!

The caveat appears to be that this 'original' Charter was never legally enacted.

I am afraid that I cannot add further to this and it is up to the OP (original poster) to pursue this (presumably with a group of people who have similar documents - thus a 'class action') and take the good advice offered by SueDonJ

From a legal perspective I would expect that the documents which one receives on signing a contract are still legal & binding, even if a new/different situation emerges a year or two later!

Regarding the value of resale weeks, I think it is fair to say that resale weeks can rarely if ever achieve the dollar value one purchases them from the developer for, and certainly not in the current timeshare climate.

A week bought at PBC during the Phase I period where there was no week 51/52 lock out, is not and never will equate with the price that one pays today for a guaranteed vacation during week 51 or week 52. Such a Phase I purchase could enable you to use your week during 51 & 52, but it is a 'bun fight' to get that period and is by no means guaranteed.

The real 'ball park' value of these weeks can be gleaned from a look at "Market Place" in this very forum.

I trust this is helpful.

 

[SueDonJ]

I am not sure I should wade in here, however as a current member of the PBC Advisory Board...

I trust this is helpful.

Without getting into any of the specifics of this thread, I think it's great that you're participating on TUG despite being a member of one of the timeshare governing boards. I imagine it's difficult to have to limit what you can say in a public setting so as not to violate any legal restrictions of a board position. Thank you for contributing in whatever capacity you can.

TUGger Minoter (BeachPlace Towers board member) has been a welcome and valuable contributor to TUG, and now you've made the effort. I wish more board members would consider doing the same.

 

[MALC9990]

I am not sure I should wade in here, however as a current member of the PBC Advisory Board I think the above quote is a little harsh.

I agree the MALC9990 is more informed that most if not all regarding the detail of his own timeshare purchases, and indeed the specific scenarios pertaining to PBC/MKB/MVCAP

As you know I am familiar with some details specific to this case.

I understand that possibly 500 individuals purchased a week or weeks at PBC between 2000 & the end of 2002! I also understand that the initial Legal Documents are different from those in existence for the majority of owners. My own Legal Documents which contain 'The Charter' of the PBC is dated as follows:- Revised January 31st 2003, so by inference there appears to have been an earlier version.

However the PBC Advisory Board was set up in late 2003 & had its inaugural meeting in early 2004, and was guided by the current set of 'Legal Documents'

I believe an earlier version of 'Legal Documents' may have contained an Exhibit E entitled "Charter of Phuket Beach Club Association", whereas my version simply states "Charter Phuket Beach Club" & Chapter I under 'General Provisions' has 3 paragraphs.

The earlier version appears to also have 3 paragraphs, but under paragraph 3 there are 6 sub paragraphs (3.1 to 3.6) which would appear to give the 'Association' much more power than exists today, including budgetary approval rights!

The caveat appears to be that this 'original' Charter was never legally enacted.

I am afraid that I cannot add further to this and it is up to the OP (original poster) to pursue this (presumably with a group of people who have similar documents - thus a 'class action') and take the good advice offered by SueDonJ

From a legal perspective I would expect that the documents which one receives on signing a contract are still legal & binding, even if a new/different situation emerges a year or two later!

Regarding the value of resale weeks, I think it is fair to say that resale weeks can rarely if ever achieve the dollar value one purchases them from the developer for, and certainly not in the current timeshare climate.

A week bought at PBC during the Phase I period where there was no week 51/52 lock out, is not and never will equate with the price that one pays today for a guaranteed vacation during week 51 or week 52. Such a Phase I purchase could enable you to use your week during 51 & 52, but it is a 'bun fight' to get that period and is by no means guaranteed.

The real 'ball park' value of these weeks can be gleaned from a look at "Market Place" in this very forum.

I trust this is helpful.

Thanks - that has clarified everything that I was not aware of.

This resort IMHO is the BEST in the MVCI stable and is somewhere I hope to vacation every year! It is a long way from the UK but still worth the trip.

 

[fizzysoup]

Without getting into any of the specifics of this thread, I think it's great that you're participating on TUG despite being a member of one of the timeshare governing boards. I imagine it's difficult to have to limit what you can say in a public setting so as not to violate any legal restrictions of a board position. Thank you for contributing in whatever capacity you can.

TUGger Minoter (BeachPlace Towers board member) has been a welcome and valuable contributor to TUG, and now you've made the effort. I wish more board members would consider doing the same.

Hi Sue,
Thank you for your comments. Appreciated.

I see no reason why a Marriott Board member would feel reluctant to contribute to this site.

We are all Time Share owners & members of the public, volunteering our time for the greater good.

I got involved four years ago as I wanted to make a difference & I think I have made progress but sometimes it was like

We are not employed by Marriott & indeed we get very few benefits from being on the Advisory Board.

I see my duty as fully representing the owners (and that incidentally does not include the developer (if they own inventory) who in my opinion, are perfectly capable of representing themselves and their own interests).


In reality it is a 'one way street', but we do what we can to ensure that what is being done is fair and reasonable whilst ensuring that the brand standard that we all initially loved & bought into, remains true.

 

[gnorth16]

You guys have a place most people dream of getting in a II exchange.

If you view your timeshare/RTU vacation club as an investment, you will be disappointed. If you view it as a vacation to a gorgeous place every year, you will never be disappointed.

RTU til 2083!!! Unless you plan on living past then, enjoy what you have. Life is too short!

 

[fizzysoup]

You guys have a place most people dream of getting in a II exchange.

If you view your timeshare/RTU vacation club as an investment, you will be disappointed. If you view it as a vacation to a gorgeous place every year, you will never be disappointed.

RTU til 2083!!! Unless you plan on living past then, enjoy what you have. Life is too short!

Couldn't agree more. Sadly I won't last as long as my contract!

 

[Asia2000]

A Home Owners Association cannot exist at PBC - there are no Home Owners. PBC is a Right To Use resort - buyers of weeks got the Right to Use the Resort until 31st Dec 2081. There is an Advisory Committee of Members.

An interesting thread full of learning. It sounds like the OP needs to ask a member of the Advisory Committee of PBC exactly the process that took place in merging MVCI-AP with PBC. From the posts on this thread, MVCI just went in and bought the existing inventory from PBC, similar to was MVC-USA has done with their trust program and the Destinations Club.

If Marriott builds it, they have a right to buy out the inventory if they choose. In the end, they gave everyone a chance to buy all of their Marriott PBC weeks, but it just so happened that during the time of a strategy shift (selling points to Asians versus weeks) that a lot of inventory was left on the table.

It appears a Platinum week at PBC sells for at least $15K, which is not bad compared to a tropical resort like Kauai Beach Club where values have slipped further. You can probably thank the PBC Advisory Committee for managing funds properly to keep the maintenance fees down. Certainly Kauai Beach Club is older and more expensive to maintain, so I'm not sure it is a fair comparison.

I think it is evident that a large lawsuit on a timeshare resort will only hurt the resort and the value of those timeshares. I'm not sure you have any legal representation as you do not own the resort, only a fraction of time at the resort. Your purchase value has slipped, but I would question if the value of the usage has? Any owner that has been here since 2000/2001 would probably tell you the resort has improved since initial ownership.

I'm not sure why Minor sold their investment back to Marriott, but it is interesting to see Minor build their own timeshare operation in the middle of both Marriott MVCI properties. In the end, it will probably benefit both operations (Marriott and Minor) as it brings more people to an area that was once considered "in the middle of nowhere".

 

[Lets have less Greed]

It is becoming very intresting, and it is getting to the beef

The Phuket beach club advisory members are good poeple and are trying to do the best, compared to the USA property s have very very limited authority if any .
I have visited the" shell office" in Bangkok of Mai Kao vacation villas , you be surprised.
I have a audit document from PricewaterhouseCoopers Thailand which audits on be halve of Minor ,the completed entity. ( I have not seen or heard of an audit for the advisrory commitee on be halve of the members !!!! )
It appears to me Minor is the promised "homeowners association" MVCI the operator and the sales agent has" build "on top of it an advisory commitee , which give the appearance the are somehow an" homeowner association "

The Phuket beach club is managed superbly for a feeof 15%' by MVCI A homeowners association could prodect the owners interested , what is been done with not permitting the promised resale on property and with purschasing a block for the Asia pacific points,could be reversed,this would be
the case in the US.

It appears "by forcing" the owners in to the shady timeshare resale market Minor regains the units , for a minimal fee , since the have the first right of refusal ( many units are "handed to this to me shady timeshare resale companies in the US ,this stop having to pay the annual fee and an owner gets legally write of there obligations.

There is no 80 year management contract for the JW Marriott and not for MVCI the manager at the Phuket beach club,, its quite possible that via the repurchase units the developer( homeowner association) could shift timeshare Managment to Anantara , this than make the Phuket beach club the anker of the new anantara units,not adjacent to the beach units, more valuable by
combining them in to one.

What is been done by not permitting the promised resale on property to attain the true fair market price ( yes there could be a sizable resale fee) is wrong wrong wrong and will be corrected

 

[MALC9990]

An interesting thread full of learning. It sounds like the OP needs to ask a member of the Advisory Committee of PBC exactly the process that took place in merging MVCI-AP with PBC. From the posts on this thread, MVCI just went in and bought the existing inventory from PBC, similar to was MVC-USA has done with their trust program and the Destinations Club.

If Marriott builds it, they have a right to buy out the inventory if they choose. In the end, they gave everyone a chance to buy all of their Marriott PBC weeks, but it just so happened that during the time of a strategy shift (selling points to Asians versus weeks) that a lot of inventory was left on the table.

It appears a Platinum week at PBC sells for at least $15K, which is not bad compared to a tropical resort like Kauai Beach Club where values have slipped further. You can probably thank the PBC Advisory Committee for managing funds properly to keep the maintenance fees down. Certainly Kauai Beach Club is older and more expensive to maintain, so I'm not sure it is a fair comparison.

I think it is evident that a large lawsuit on a timeshare resort will only hurt the resort and the value of those timeshares. I'm not sure you have any legal representation as you do not own the resort, only a fraction of time at the resort. Your purchase value has slipped, but I would question if the value of the usage has? Any owner that has been here since 2000/2001 would probably tell you the resort has improved since initial ownership.

I'm not sure why Minor sold their investment back to Marriott, but it is interesting to see Minor build their own timeshare operation in the middle of both Marriott MVCI properties. In the end, it will probably benefit both operations (Marriott and Minor) as it brings more people to an area that was once considered "in the middle of nowhere".

As you say full of learnings but unfortunately also full of misunderstandings and unreasonable expectations of resale values. I stand by my comment that without home owners how can you have a home owners association.

I don't anticipate any change to the management of the resort, why would Minor want to change the JW to another Anantara when there is one next door with a very different design and price structure. Based on timescales for development I've seen for PBC and MKB I would expect the new Anantara TS resort to take as long as 5 or 6 or even more years to complete development. It will have no beach frontage -the JW and PBC units are between the Anantara TS development site and the beach.

One thing I can see coming is that guests at the JW and PBC will be issued with wrist bands or some other way to control who has access rights to use the JW and PBC facilities. Whilst restrictions are in place now to limit access for MKB guests there is nothing actually done to prevent MKB guests from using the JW pools and other facilities. There will probably have to be steps taken to control access. I would expect that Anantara Vacation Club members (note that this too is a purely points based system with no home resort) would have usage rights to the Anantara Hotel facilities.

 

[Lets have less Greed]

It was and is a timeshare, and was sold as a timeshare , with a charter of a homeowner association which I have a copy.
Is there any other structure identical to this in he Marrioot system? Please so advise?
Remember just because someone says and writes it is so !!! Does not mean that what the law in Thailand permits, some one to do , one/a developer can always test the waters / take a buisness gambel until someone challenges it.