What happens to a Marriott week when we die?

[TPNOVO]

As to the Transfer on Death deeds, they do indeed work; however, the catch is that last time I checked only 14 states had legalized a TOD deed. So, if the jurisdiction where you own a TS doesn't allow a TOD deed, you can't use it.

I’m now getting questions on how Beneficiary Deeds/TOD Deeds work, and a quick google search would suggest that the idea is catching on, as there are a lot more than 14 states apparently allowing TOD deeds now
https://trustandwill.com/learn/beneficiary-deed-states

Please know that I am NOT a lawyer, just trying to research what may work best for our particular family and TS ownership, but maybe this info and link could help others here that are researching what may work best for THEIR family situation and TS ownership

 

[VacationForever]

Does the recipient have to sign on the "Transfer On Death" deeds? I checked and it looks like Florida is not one of them. If recipient does not need to sign, what happens when the recipient rejects the deed?

 

[dioxide45]

Does the recipient have to sign on the "Transfer On Death" deeds? I checked and it looks like Florida is not one of them. If recipient does not need to sign, what happens when the recipient rejects the deed?

I'm not sure they can. I don't think you would even need to list the TODD in a will. Kind of works like a beneficiary on an insurance policy or JTWROS.

 

[TPNOVO]

It’s a moot point if the deed is in FL, and FL doesn’t recognize a TOD deed. I’ve used one in AZ once recently, and the recipient didn’t have to do a thing, the beneficiary deed was recorded upon execution before my mother’s death, and I took it and her death certificate to the county recorder after her death, to update legal ownership of her house to her stated beneficiary, my niece. 5 weeks later, county records search online shows my niece as the legal owner. Easy peasy.

Of course, this was a house with equity and my niece WANTED it. But I can’t imagine Hilton would have any way of not taking it back if the JTWROS (personally listed, not trust owned) owners both passed, with a Beneficiary Deed saying it goes back to Hilton.

 

[dioxide45]

Florida utilizes something called a Lady Bird Deed.

 

[VacationForever]

.

Not for real estate.

 

[VacationForever]

I'm not sure they can. I don't think you would even need to list the TODD in a will. Kind of works like a beneficiary on an insurance policy or JTWROS.

So, can I have all my non-Florida timeshare deeds change to Transfer On Death to you?

 

[TPNOVO]

But Florida does recognize TOD deeds.

Interesting, maybe the list in the link I first found and included above, is outdated then. Is there a newer list somewhere including additional states like FL?

 

[dioxide45]

Interesting, maybe the list in the link I first found and included above, is outdated then. Is there a newer list somewhere including additional states like FL?

Not for real estate.

I updated my post.

 

[TPNOVO]

I updated my post.

Maybe some states recognize TOD deeds for only some things (like motor vehicles, i.e. I learned ADOT (AZ dept of Transportation) also has a simple form for assigning Transfer on Death Beneficiary to each of your licensed titled vehicles independently upon death, to avoid probate too). But deeded real estate seems to be a lot trickier to cleanly dispose of after death.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

ROFL...There was a lawyer on TUG who listed all the relatives they hate as beneficiaries of their timeshares.

 

[TPNOVO]

ROFL...There was a lawyer on TUG who listed all the relatives they hate as beneficiaries of their timeshares.

I could never be so evil, but I do have to giggle at this!

 

[CalGalTraveler]

ROFL...A unique way to have the final say out of the grave with those you dislike!

 

[TPNOVO]

ROFL...A unique way to have the final say out of the grave with those you dislike!

I would have to believe there would still be some way for said family member to disclaim it, and turn it over to the developer or management company. By listing the developer or management company as our TOD Beneficiary, my hope would be that would just put it on them directly, without my kids having to deal with them. Although I’m not sure what legal entity would be the proper one to name (HGV? HVC? All Seasons Resorts Inc, the original developer listed on the Special Warranty Deed, long before Diamond or Hilton got involved?)

Maybe @LeslieDet can comment further on the case that a designated Beneficiary on a TOD deed does NOT want it (whether a disliked family member, a charity, or the developer or management company)? And to what legal entity should be listed, developer on deed, or currently acting management company?

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I don't believe anyone (especially heirs) can be forced to take on another's debt. They can disclaim it but it would be a wonderful hassle to deal with it.

 

[LeslieDet]

I as told by a SC Lawyer that SC does allow transfer on death deeds so I am considering this for our HHI weeks. The question I don't know is how will this work with ROFR. In our case it wouldn't be an issue as this would be to my children anyway.

A TOD deed is not something that would impact a ROFR because it isn't a sale. TOD deeds are a form of estate planning. It isn't deemed a "sale". Note though that if the TOD deed named a sibling or a niece or nephew, ie someone other than your child, then when that person accepts the deed, their ownership would be treated as if it was a resale. So, the week would not be eligible to enroll.

 

[LeslieDet]

Does the recipient have to sign on the "Transfer On Death" deeds? I checked and it looks like Florida is not one of them. If recipient does not need to sign, what happens when the recipient rejects the deed?

If the beneficiary of a TOD deed rejects the deed, or fails to comply with the time limits that are set for completing the transfer post death of owner, then the executor of the estate must probate the estate in order to dispose of the real property asset.

 

[LeslieDet]

I would have to believe there would still be some way for said family member to disclaim it, and turn it over to the developer or management company. By listing the developer or management company as our TOD Beneficiary, my hope would be that would just put it on them directly, without my kids having to deal with them. Although I’m not sure what legal entity would be the proper one to name (HGV? HVC? All Seasons Resorts Inc, the original developer listed on the Special Warranty Deed, long before Diamond or Hilton got involved?)

Maybe @LeslieDet can comment further on the case that a designated Beneficiary on a TOD deed does NOT want it (whether a disliked family member, a charity, or the developer or management company)? And to what legal entity should be listed, developer on deed, or currently acting management company?

Just to respond to this comment, yes the family member who is named on a TOD deed can reject the deed. No, the owner cannot name the developer or management company as a recipient of a TOD deed and have it be a successful transfer. If that was done, the developer would reject the deed. While I have never worked for MVW or any other timeshare company and am not privy to the decisions being made at the corporate level, it is my understanding that a developer will not accept any bequest or any unsolicited deed. You can't just quitclaim your ownership to the developer and send the deed off to them, it will be rejected. A required element of any gift transfer is acceptance. The developer is not going to accept it.

I have no idea about your specific TS, and my knowledge and info relates to MVW.

Regarding the comment about naming your most disliked family member, etc., again, that attempted retribution is a waste of time and money. If you are hoping to give ownership of a TS to a charity, that charity will also reject the bequest or TOD deed transfer, because they would not want the liability associated with a TS. It is much better to make plans while the owner is living to dispose of the ownership via gift or sale. If the owner transfers the real property ownership to his or her revocable living trust, then probate is avoided. It makes it so much easier for the successor trustee to sell or otherwise dispose of real property. The developer will accept a deed conveyed by the successor trustee and the successor trustee can convey the deed without court approval because when the grantor of the trust dies, the trust does not. The successor trustee is legally able to convey title.

 

[TPNOVO]

Just to respond to this comment, yes the family member who is named on a TOD deed can reject the deed. No, the owner cannot name the developer or management company as a recipient of a TOD deed and have it be a successful transfer. If that was done, the developer would reject the deed. While I have never worked for MVW or any other timeshare company and am not privy to the decisions being made at the corporate level, it is my understanding that a developer will not accept any bequest or any unsolicited deed. You can't just quitclaim your ownership to the developer and send the deed off to them, it will be rejected. A required element of any gift transfer is acceptance. The developer is not going to accept it.

I have no idea about your specific TS, and my knowledge and info relates to MVW.

Regarding the comment about naming your most disliked family member, etc., again, that attempted retribution is a waste of time and money. If you are hoping to give ownership of a TS to a charity, that charity will also reject the bequest or TOD deed transfer, because they would not want the liability associated with a TS. It is much better to make plans while the owner is living to dispose of the ownership via gift or sale. If the owner transfers the real property ownership to his or her revocable living trust, then probate is avoided. It makes it so much easier for the successor trustee to sell or otherwise dispose of real property. The developer will accept a deed conveyed by the successor trustee and the successor trustee can convey the deed without court approval because when the grantor of the trust dies, the trust does not. The successor trustee is legally able to convey title.

You are a wealth of knowledge, thank you Leslie! So our "backup backup" plan still wouldn't save our kids (as both Executor of our pour over wills, and Successor Trustees of our revocable living trust). Shucks. My fear is, Hilton says they don't want it back (as they're basically saying, at least temporarily, by pausing Transitions) - but if that's still the case long term in the future, after DH and I pass, I don't want my trust assets legally allocated (wasted) on more ongoing annual fees forever, if there's no legal way to dispose of it. Catch 22 no matter what, and nonpayment/foreclosure would be the last option, but what a headache to put on the Successor Trustees. (Or the will Executor, if leaving it out of the Trust). OK, back to "give it away or give it back" plan I guess.

 

[LeslieDet]

You are a wealth of knowledge, thank you Leslie! So our "backup backup" plan still wouldn't save our kids (as both Executor of our pour over wills, and Successor Trustees of our revocable living trust). Shucks. My fear is, Hilton says they don't want it back (as they're basically saying, at least temporarily, by pausing Transitions) - but if that's still the case long term in the future, after DH and I pass, I don't want my trust assets legally allocated (wasted) on more ongoing annual fees forever, if there's no legal way to dispose of it. Catch 22 no matter what, and nonpayment/foreclosure would be the last option, but what a headache to put on the Successor Trustees. (Or the will Executor, if leaving it out of the Trust). OK, back to "give it away or give it back" plan I guess.

I do not know anything about how the Hilton TS ownership is structured, or Hilton's procedure for deed backs, etc. I would hope that Hilton has some formal process in place to allow for deed backs when the original purchaser has passed and none of the heirs desire to continue the ownership. IDK if that is the "Transitions" program you mention, or whether that applies to all deed backs, not just those after death of the original owner.

If there is a program in place for Hilton to accept the deed back, then the question is which is the most cost and time efficient process so that when the original owner has passed (and obviously did not dispose of the ownership during his or her life)? If Hilton accepts the deed back after death of original owner, then having in a trust makes it a quick and inexpensive process, whereas probate can be costly and take some time to be completed, increasing the cost and time delay, during which time the estate is liable for the MFs.

 

[TPNOVO]

I do not know anything about how the Hilton TS ownership is structured, or Hilton's procedure for deed backs, etc. I would hope that Hilton has some formal process in place to allow for deed backs when the original purchaser has passed and none of the heirs desire to continue the ownership. IDK if that is the "Transitions" program you mention, or whether that applies to all deed backs, not just those after death of the original owner.

If there is a program in place for Hilton to accept the deed back, then the question is which is the most cost and time efficient process so that when the original owner has passed (and obviously did not dispose of the ownership during his or her life)? If Hilton accepts the deed back after death of original owner, then having in a trust makes it a quick and inexpensive process, whereas probate can be costly and take some time to be completed, increasing the cost and time delay, during which time the estate is liable for the MFs.

Makes sense, thanks Leslie. Anyway, I believe I've now found a fellow tugger that would like my deeded portion as a free/giveaway transfer, so I'm going to just continue down that path now, and hope none of these legal concerns will matter if the gift/transfer works out But maybe these threads will help others sort out what's best for their situations.

 

[Dean]

Florida does recognize transfer on death date, but it’s only been the last two or three years.