What do MVC owners think of Abound?

[TravelTime]

@GregT do you own a fractional at Ritz STT? If so, how do you like it vs just using Marriott points to book there? Do you book your own unit or can you book any unit as an owner there? Do you always get high floors as an owner?

 

[GregT]

@GregT do you own a fractional at Ritz STT? If so, how do you like it vs just using Marriott points to book there? Do you book your own unit or can you book any unit as an owner there? Do you always get high floors as an owner?

I don't own a fractional at Ritz STT, but I have been able to book it with some frequency with DC Points. Most of the inventory that is in the Trust is in the Suites buildings (there are six buildings total, two are Suites and four are Villas), and most of the Suites inventory is low floor (first three floors). So I never expect a high floor when I reserve there, but even the third floor has had very nice views.

Best,

Greg

 

[bobpark56]

I think legally they are still separate companies, just that both are subsidiaries of the larger MVW. They both still have distinctive underlying products in that Marriott has deeded weeks and Vistana has VSN. I wonder if something needs changed in the forums nest year given that there is a combined Abound program and separate Marriott and Vistana weeks based products. I know this question wasn't asked, but I don't think we want to dump them all into a single forum, but we are starting to see a lot of stuff posted to the wrong forum already.

Vistana also has some deeded weeks. We have one at St John.

 

[Bodie]

There are active threads in the Vistana forum and concerns about how Marriott is hurting the Vistana program. I have not heard much, if anything, about what Marriott owners think about Abound.

A few questions:

1) For points owners and enrolled weeks owners, are you excited to be able to book the new Vistana properties? Which Westin/Sheraton resorts in particular are you most interested in?

2) What do you think of the points values for new Westin/Sheraton properties? The new points charts are loaded for 2023 under Helpful Tools on the MVC website.

3) Any concerns that it will be harder to book the already hard-to-get Marriott resorts inventory with more competition from the Vistana folks for the top locations?

4) For MVC weeks owners, any fears that you will not be able to book your home resorts due to more competition from Vistana folks? If not, what reassurance can you give the Vistana folks?

5) Any resentment that Vistana owners will get immediate access to Marriott inventory but it might not be reciprocal for Marriott people to access Vistana inventory since Vistana inventory will be limited (at least in the beginning)?

6) What do post-2010 resale weeks owners think about Vistana mandatory resale owners (pre-8/9/2022) getting free enrollment into Abound?

Honestly, as a MVC owner, there isn’t much about this Vistana deal that excites me. The properties in Cancun and the Bahamas are the only ones I find of interest. Everything else seems more of the same. Marriott is doing a lousy job of
explaining what‘s in it for us besides more people/owners to compete against.

 

[DRH90277]

Honestly, as a MVC owner, there isn’t much about this Vistana deal that excites me. The properties in Cancun and the Bahamas are the only ones I find of interest. Everything else seems more of the same. Marriott is doing a lousy job of
explaining what‘s in it for us besides more people/owners to compete against.

I agree.

If I look back at what we had 10 years ago versus now, I don't see much real value added as a consumer of this vacation program. I suspect MVC would bring up the flexibility of the points program as being the highlight. It is ok but not a major value add, it's only a currency change. A real highlight would be if they had added many more great properties, which they have not done.

 

[TravelTime]

This is my Marriott perspective. Over on the Vistana threads, I have a different opinion using my Vistana hat and the benefits I am getting with my Vistana week enrolled for free, high value in points conversion and upgrade to Chairman’s level.

If I were a Marriott-only owner, I would be concerned about the way Vistana owners are being brought into the Abound program at no enrollment cost. I paid a lot to enroll my MKO week. I do not see any similarities with pre-2010 Marriott weeks and pre-8/9/2022 Vistana weeks. I see the precedent in the past 12 years has been you pay to enroll your resale weeks.

I would also be really concerned about the increased competition to book the already hard-to-book Marriott resorts. In fact, I must admit even as a dual owner, I am worried about increased competition for some of my favorite Marriott resorts and locations. I am always online as soon as the reservations windows open so I hope I can still get what I want.

I would only care about a few new locations like Mexico, St John and Bahamas. The rest overlap with what Marriott owns and most of the Vistana locations, I would not want to stay in since they are not places I visit. However, I might only visit those locations 1x or not at all since I never visited them with SOs.

 

[VacationForever]

I am not even reading through this thread. As an owner of both Marriott and Vistana, I am indifferent to Abound other than it will get us to Chairman's Club level. I will continue to use SOs to go to Vistana properties and II to go to most Marriott properties. We hardly use MVC points and while there is quite a bit of skim to book Collette tours, we are looking at using the points to go to France, likely in 2024. Internal booking in DC has no appeal to us. Yah yah yah, we bought from MVC directly, and we hardly use their system.

 

[ljmiii]

1) For points owners and enrolled weeks owners, are you excited to be able to book the new Vistana properties? Which Westin/Sheraton resorts in particular are you most interested in?

Unsurprisingly, the ones located in places without MVC resorts. Mexico, Kauai's North Shore, Bahamas, and St John.

2) What do you think of the points values for new Westin/Sheraton properties? The new points charts are loaded for 2023 under Helpful Tools on the MVC website.

Don't particularly care. Like MVC locations, they cost what they cost...if I want to go I'll pay and if I don't I won't.

3) Any concerns that it will be harder to book the already hard-to-get Marriott resorts inventory with more competition from the Vistana folks for the top locations?

Nope. A little annoyed that the Vistana resorts won't be available at 13 months...but such is life. I'll book MVC at 13 months and if availability at a Vistana location I'd rather go to shows up at 12 months I'll book and cancel.

4) For MVC weeks owners, any fears that you will not be able to book your home resorts due to more competition from Vistana folks? If not, what reassurance can you give the Vistana folks?

Nope. Weeks inventory has nothing to do with points inventory.

5) Any resentment that Vistana owners will get immediate access to Marriott inventory but it might not be reciprocal for Marriott people to access Vistana inventory since Vistana inventory will be limited (at least in the beginning)?

Nope. One day soon (October? November?) I'll get to see what Vistana resorts have availability 12 months out. If I get access to more Vistana inventory because Vistana owners elected their enrolled weeks and booked at MVC resorts over the next couple of months all the better.

6) What do post-2010 resale weeks owners think about Vistana mandatory resale owners (pre-8/9/2022) getting free enrollment into Abound?

Couldn't care less. I enrolled both my pre and post 2010 weeks using what seemed to be the best mechanism at the time. I considered buying Mandatory Vistana weeks when the merger was announced...but the risk didn't seem worth it. Particularly considering that I didn't really want to stay in any of those locations if the process of converting to MVC DPs didn't pan out.

But more to the point...why would I care about something that doesn't affect me in any way?!?

 

[dioxide45]

Since we enrolled our two Marriott weeks early on in the DC days, we have only elected Club Points twice. Other than that one year, we have always exchanged through II. It will be interesting to see how II inventory may be impacted for Marriott weeks, but I doubt much will change as anyone still exchanging in II is probably still going to do so. We rent points or points based reservations now and then. It will be a little easier since we *might* be Executive based on our Vistana ownership meaning we can rent points for one night reservations >10 months out. That said, our use case for points is very limited. Since we always use StarOptions on the Vistana side, we may now do the math to see if it makes more sense to elect Club Points for a reservation instead of using StarOptions. However, I suspect VSN will still carry most of the Vistana inventory and even if it is cheaper to use Club Points, the availability may not be there anyway. So we will continue to probably use our Vistana weeks in VSN anyway.

 

[Bodie]

I agree.

If I look back at what we had 10 years ago versus now, I don't see much real value added as a consumer of this vacation program. I suspect MVC would bring up the flexibility of the points program as being the highlight. It is ok but not a major value add, it's only a currency change. A real highlight would be if they had added many more great properties, which they have not done.

Ain't that the truth. They're top heavy in Florida and South Carolina. Personally, I'd like to see more Pulse properties in different cities. It seems they're missing an opportunity to market to those interested in more urban experiences (Chicago, New Orleans, Paris, London, Rome et al) . Guess their market analysts are telling them otherwise.

 

[Bodie]

I am not even reading through this thread. As an owner of both Marriott and Vistana, I am indifferent to Abound other than it will get us to Chairman's Club level. I will continue to use SOs to go to Vistana properties and II to go to most Marriott properties. We hardly use MVC points and while there is quite a bit of skim to book Collette tours, we are looking at using the points to go to France, likely in 2024. Internal booking in DC has no appeal to us. Yah yah yah, we bought from MVC directly, and we hardly use their system.

"Bit of skim." LOL

 

[Bodie]

Know how I can tell this Abound deal is a dog? My favorite salesperson hasn't called me to talk it up.

 

[dansimms]

I am glad that I will have more uses for DP currency. It will help for some of my longer trips, which more easily can blend a stay at Frenchmens Reef and followed by the Westin St John, for example. On the negative side, it has been hard getting stays at the Ritz properties and now we will have even more competition for them, as they are in high demand and now only down to the 5 locations. Unfortunately, the addition of St Regis will not help when it comes to using Destination Points. The luxury resorts can be fun to plan for, when you want to splurge. I have a blended trip in February in Scottsdale, AZ with the Canyon Villas followed by the Kierland. I used 200,000 Bonvoy Points for a 5 night stay at Kierland in their small 1 BR. Can't wait ! We start with the studio for a few days at Canyon Villas. Hoping to get to see the big golf tourny with the 15000 fans on the 16th hole and then back at the resort for Super Bowl Sunday!

 

[DRH90277]

Ain't that the truth. They're top heavy in Florida and South Carolina. Personally, I'd like to see more Pulse properties in different cities. It seems they're missing an opportunity to market to those interested in more urban experiences (Chicago, New Orleans, Paris, London, Rome et al) . Guess their market analysts are telling them otherwise.

I don't know how they would avoid the bad seasons for some of these locations. Who would go on vacation to Chicago in the winter, I near froze to death there? I think they need places with a good chance of year-round survival.

 

[Bodie]

I don't know how they would avoid the bad seasons for some of these locations. Who would go on vacation to Chicago in the winter, I near froze to death there? I think they need places with a good chance of year-round survival.

That may be a calculation but the one in NYC does very well. So much to do there. I really like it.

 

[Big Matt]

Since we enrolled our two Marriott weeks early on in the DC days, we have only elected Club Points twice. Other than that one year, we have always exchanged through II. It will be interesting to see how II inventory may be impacted for Marriott weeks, but I doubt much will change as anyone still exchanging in II is probably still going to do so. We rent points or points based reservations now and then. It will be a little easier since we *might* be Executive based on our Vistana ownership meaning we can rent points for one night reservations >10 months out. That said, our use case for points is very limited. Since we always use StarOptions on the Vistana side, we may now do the math to see if it makes more sense to elect Club Points for a reservation instead of using StarOptions. However, I suspect VSN will still carry most of the Vistana inventory and even if it is cheaper to use Club Points, the availability may not be there anyway. So we will continue to probably use our Vistana weeks in VSN anyway.

Do you know whether the new entrants will have the same Marriott priority in II? If they do, that will be quite a big deal.

 

[dioxide45]

Do you know whether the new entrants will have the same Marriott priority in II? If they do, that will be quite a big deal.

We don't know. I am thinking they may not put the II priority on parity just to protect original weeks owners "rights" on each side, but not really sure. Though, Vistana Abound members will now be able to exchange into Marriott through II with no exchange fee. So there may be a little more competition there from Vistana owners.

 

[Red elephant]

Do you know whether the new entrants will have the same Marriott priority in II? If they do, that will be quite a big deal.

If they do that then they may make Vistana owners make a reservation first like Marriott before exchanging into Marriott in II. That’s creating another set of rules. So I doubt it.

 

[Cobra1950]

Honestly, as a MVC owner, there isn’t much about this Vistana deal that excites me. The properties in Cancun and the Bahamas are the only ones I find of interest. Everything else seems more of the same. Marriott is doing a lousy job of
explaining what‘s in it for us besides more people/owners to compete against.

I agree with your view on Marriott doing a Poor Job in explaining the new deal. We recently went through a 3 Hour dog and pony in Palm Beach with 3 Marriott people (over 3 hours) trying to explain what the whole mess was about and the thousands it would cost us. We have already disposed of 2 of the 3 Marriott timeshares we had but kept Summitt Watch Week 51. Part of the presentation was that we would lose ownership of that week, meaning I guess they wanted to minimize the risk to them of us selling this $30K+ unit on the open market. Not once during the presentation did they offer a piece of information on paper, just the old scribbled board technique with erasers at hand. Was really quite disappointing to sit through, worst session we have had to sit through since 1999!

 

[bobpark56]

Unsurprisingly, the ones located in places without MVC resorts. Mexico, Kauai's North Shore, Bahamas, and St John.Don't particularly care. Like MVC locations, they cost what they cost...if I want to go I'll pay and if I don't I won't.Nope. A little annoyed that the Vistana resorts won't be available at 13 months...but such is life. I'll book MVC at 13 months and if availability at a Vistana location I'd rather go to shows up at 12 months I'll book and cancel.Nope. Weeks inventory has nothing to do with points inventory.Nope. One day soon (October? November?) I'll get to see what Vistana resorts have availability 12 months out. If I get access to more Vistana inventory because Vistana owners elected their enrolled weeks and booked at MVC resorts over the next couple of months all the better.Couldn't care less. I enrolled both my pre and post 2010 weeks using what seemed to be the best mechanism at the time. I considered buying Mandatory Vistana weeks when the merger was announced...but the risk didn't seem worth it. Particularly considering that I didn't really want to stay in any of those locations if the process of converting to MVC DPs didn't pan out.

But more to the point...why would I care about something that doesn't affect me in any way?!?

Whatever makes you think that MVC folks should get 13-month access to Vistana resorts, when Vistana owners must wait until 12 months out, and Vistana owners at other resorts must wait until 8 months out? Kinda looks like you would like to jump the line by 5 months here. You're not a line-jumper, are you?

 

[Bodie]

Three hours and three salespeople? Sounds like they’re using Law and Order get a confession squeeze. Did you ask for a lawyer? Hope you got a decent “gift” for all that torture.

 

[Bodie]

Whatever makes you think that MVC folks should get 13-month access to Vistana resorts, when Vistana owners must wait until 12 months out, and Vistana owners at other resorts must wait until 8 months out? Kinda looks like you would like to jump the line by 5 months here. You're not a line-jumper, are you?

Isn’t that a Seinfeld episode?

 

[sunski]

Marriott is charging the same for IV and OV category at WKOVR/N. Why on earth would they do that? Anyone have a guess? Seems like this would be a point of arbitrage. LOL I see some other possible points of arbitrage too but that would require getting into the nitty gritty details of unit positioning.

Using shoulder season (same dates) as a comparison:

WKOVRN Studio
IV 2925
OV 2925
OF 3900

WKOVR Studio
IV 2525
OV 2525
OF 3550

MOC Napili/Lahaina studio
IV 2175
MG 2525
OV 2975
OF 3375

OTOH, they made the 2BR point values the same for both phases of WKOVR south and north overall but they also did the same thing as with the studios in valuing IV and OV the same.

WKOVR (south and north) 2BR
IV 6075
OV 6075
OF 8200

MOC Napili/Lahaina 2BR
IV 4700
MG 5700
OV 6650
OF 7450

When you book currently at WKORV using staroptions there is no points distinction between IV and OV only a premium for OF, so it makes sense that they would keep the points values the same in Abound. Seems to me those with IV would be more inclined to deposit into Abound because of the lesser value of other options like renting their unit, especially if they live closer to some of the "new" Marriott options available to them.

Interesting to see that MOC Lahaina M/G is same value as WKORV OV studio. I'd be tempted to go for my one bedroom in MOC and then try to move over to a OV studio for the second week. That's probably worth the skim if you can get it.

 

[sunski]

This is my Marriott perspective. Over on the Vistana threads, I have a different opinion using my Vistana hat and the benefits I am getting with my Vistana week enrolled for free, high value in points conversion and upgrade to Chairman’s level.

If I were a Marriott-only owner, I would be concerned about the way Vistana owners are being brought into the Abound program at no enrollment cost. I paid a lot to enroll my MKO week. I do not see any similarities with pre-2010 Marriott weeks and pre-8/9/2022 Vistana weeks. I see the precedent in the past 12 years has been you pay to enroll your resale weeks.

I would also be really concerned about the increased competition to book the already hard-to-book Marriott resorts. In fact, I must admit even as a dual owner, I am worried about increased competition for some of my favorite Marriott resorts and locations. I am always online as soon as the reservations windows open so I hope I can still get what I want.

I would only care about a few new locations like Mexico, St John and Bahamas. The rest overlap with what Marriott owns and most of the Vistana locations, I would not want to stay in since they are not places I visit. However, I might only visit those locations 1x or not at all since I never visited them with SOs.

I'm of a similar opinion in many respects. I do use the DC program to a certain extent and have gotten to get a decent feel for how it works for my interest and out of pure selfishness, I am not thrilled about the prospect of an influx of people who are being granted entrance and status to a program that I have paid quite a bit to be in especially when I have little to no interest in what they have to offer in return.

I did buy two Vistana "spec" weeks without too much capital expended, since I missed the boat previously with the DC roll out, but because I don't care much for Vistana locations I didn't want too much burden from carrying them if things didn't pan out. So although I will now have a "free" bump in status, I will still only be Executive and am leery that the Abound terms say if they change the qualifying levels you will only be given an extra year, not "grandfathered" status as they did previously.

All in all, I am hopeful that this new option will not change things too much for anyone. Pros and cons on both sides. Time will tell

 

[JIMinNC]

So although I will now have a "free" bump in status, I will still only be Executive and am leery that the Abound terms say if they change the qualifying levels you will only be given a extra year, not "grandfathered" status as they did previously.

Unless I’m mistaken, the DC terms have always allowed them to only extend status a year in the event of qualifying level changes. In practice, however, they have always grandfathered anyway, so hopefully that practice will continue.