What a quagmire!

[calgarygary]

I felt you misunderstood by your risk balance analysis. That arguement would not apply in using a third party (my suggestion being a lawyer specializing in real estate). I am not adverse to considering another third party it just will not be Timeshare Freedom. Thank you for letting me know about costs so if they refuse to use a neutral third party I would think my best recourse would be in filing a claim against their insurance?

Steve, as someone who seems to dabble in things legal - what is your interpretation of the re-listing of a property that they don't own? Also, I was wondering if our winning bid shouldn't be the amount of the consideration for the deed?

 

[Dave M]

You trusted them enough to send them money in advance and didn't have anything in hand (a deed) at the time. You trusted that they would send you a deed. They did so. They didn't cheat you. It was simply the wrong deed. Now they are offering a full refund. They are offering a reasonable way to get that done. They have done nothing at all to suggest that they will abscond with your money if you send the deed back first.

You can be stubborn and insist that they do it your way. You obviously want to make it hurt for them. However, unless you agree to pay for the cost of doing it your way, you have essentially zero chance of success.

As for "filing a claim against their insurance", you might be able to do that in Canada, but not in the U.S. You would file a lawsuit against them in court and wind up paying a ton of legal costs and almost certainly lose since you didn't take reasonable action to mitigate the damages - even if you can prove you were damaged beyond the amount of the full refund. If you decide to sue them, they and they alone would decide whether to refer it to their insurance company.

Again, you have received great advice here. If you don't take it, you'll be happily unhappy for a very long time. Steve is probably the most savvy guy around when it comes to business matters. You can ignore the rest of us, but if you ignore Steve's advice, that advice will eventually come back to haunt you.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

I felt you misunderstood by your risk balance analysis. That arguement would not apply in using a third party (my suggestion being a lawyer specializing in real estate). I am not adverse to considering another third party it just will not be Timeshare Freedom. Thank you for letting me know about costs so if they refuse to use a neutral third party I would think my best recourse would be in filing a claim against their insurance?

Steve, as someone who seems to dabble in things legal - what is your interpretation of the re-listing of a property that they don't own? Also, I was wondering if our winning bid shouldn't be the amount of the consideration for the deed?

I suspect that you can't file a claim against their insurance. All of the insurance policies I have ever seen reimburse the policy holder for expenses covered under the policy. I have never seen an insurance policy that allows third parties to file claims against the policy. The procedure always involves someone first filing a claim against the policyholder, and the policyholder turns the claim over to the insurer. The insurer then makes a decision as to whether or not the claim is covered under the policy and advises the policy

Re the relisting: How does the relisting harm you in any way? Unless it harms you, it's irrelevant to your case.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I understand what you are saying. I read through all the posts three times and I get it. It really isn't about a refund now. It is about the company providing something they promised and it is a mindset you have that you get the item you bid on and no substitutes. It is also about the title company screwing this up and the liability of their actions. It is about getting the service you paid for and not about getting a refund. Now it is even about a week that is currently listed that is registered/ was registered to you by mistake. What right do they have to sell a week that is under dispute here?

I would feel exactly the same way. I would also be looking for the thing I thought I was buying. It is an emotional thing, buying a timeshare on ebay and expecting to receive it in a timely manner, without the hassle of finding out the wrong deed was registered in your name. I would be acrimonious. I would want that title company to apologize all over the place and the seller to provide the item I wanted. That is the only thing that would work for me.

I am very good at empathizing.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

I am very good at empathizing.

No - you're sympathizing, not empathizing.

The situation as you describe is one where the buyer wants happiness, and their happiness depends on someone else doing something that the other person doesn't want to do. In my experience, that is a better prescription for frustration than for happiness.

When someone sympathizes with another person's situation, the sympathizer joins them in their pain. When someone empathizes, the empathizer (which is not the same is an "empath") recognizes the pain, but help the person move towards a resolution.

 

[rickandcindy23]

No, I am really empathizing, as this is very reminiscent of my most recent ebay purchase from Stuart Vener on ebay.

We just bought a two week package and were promised a warranty deed, but we got a quitclaim deed. The listing said we were to get the warranty deed and I am not happy, as a Realtor/broker, I expect something better than a quitclaim when I am purchasing real estate from a company that in turn as received this week as a donation to their "cause." A quitclaim does not guarantee me absolute right to that property, should the owner choose to take it back.

Not only did the seller say we would get a warranty deed, we also asked for our children's names to be on the deed, which did not happen and they misspelled my name.

The document is a piece of garbage, in my opinion, and should this particular resort decide to sell the units as wholly owned, we could be sitting on two weeks with no right to 1/26 of that amount. That has been bandied about, probably in jest, for this resort, since the units are worth a great deal of money that way and the timeshares are not. You just never know.

 

[calgarygary]

As this is the thread I started regarding my problems with Resorts Access Network (ebay's ttimeshareman/svacationman) and Timeshare Freedom, I thought that I would also post the end result here. After doing some after the fact research, I found that Timeshare Freedom Inc was not an independant escrow agent for the seller as required under Florida statute when purchasing from a developer. Resorts Access Network is defined as a developer under Florida statute (holds more than 5 timeshares in the state). When I brought forward my planned course of action (both civil and criminal) my letters were moved above Tammy to Sarah and Darren who both recognized the need to solve my problem. I stayed the course with requesting a comparable or better unit to what was contracted for and they obtained a unit that met my description. After initially contracting and paying for a 1 bedroom EOY at Vistana Villages, we now have a 2 bedroom every year. I have yet to receive the deed but it is showing as being registered so all is well.

I have very mixed feelings regarding this whole affair. Through perserverance, I was able to get these companies to do the right thing and for that, they do deserve recognition. However, I have grave misgivings about doing business with companies that require such efforts to have a contract honored and who are not providing an independant escrow service.

 

[SOS8260456]

Good for you that you stuck to your guns and received a resolution that you are happy with.

Personally, I would have had a problem signing the deed back without first getting my full refund. I wouldn't have trusted a company that had already screwed up not to screw up again.

Lisa

 

[calgarygary]

Lisa, I agree but I was able to view the deed online by doing a records search at the Orange County website. We have yet to send them the transfer of the incorrect property but will be doing so once we receive the original deed.

 

[m61376]

Nice when someone stands up for what is fair and equitable and gets satisfaction, and glad to see you got a good bonus for your aggravation.
Wouldn't it be nice if people/companies did things right the first time?

 

[robbiefields]

Gary,

Do you need a new career?

I just wish I could chase as you did the horde of shysters "managing" the timeshare industry.

Kudos.

 

[jerseygirl]

Well done Gary!

 

[stody1]

I am battling a nightmare now in which a resort was advertised as being the Vistana near Disney World. Pictures, descriptions, questions to the seller about the reort, etc all stating Disney World. When the deal is done, money is paid, and I receive the deed, it is for a resort in an entirely different city, not near disney world, and not even the same pictured.

So a refund was made, a deed was natoarized and sent backto them in 2/2008. Now, 8/2008 I receive a delinquent letter from the timeshare association saying I owe dues, association fees, maintenece fees, etc. this is all on a timeshare that never should have been in my name. Turns out the company owned by Mr. Stuart Vener couldn't resell the timeshare so they decided that even though they refunded my money, that they would sit on the deed which now shows I still own it.

Total nightmare as it could hit my credit report, but luckily, the timeshare association is being cool with me and delaying collection as I try to get this corrected.