Westin Flex Purchase questions. Help!

[hanaleihaze]

Help!

We just purchased a Westin Flex upgrade and are wanting to either confirm that we made the right decision for us, or, that we could possibly achieve the same goal, using other option(s).

We own KORN (ocean front) and PORV 2 br lock offs for EY. We’re happy with the KORN but never use the PORV. We just discovered Avon, CO and can see going there every year in the summer. The Westin Mountain Villas seem impossible to book at the non-owner 8 month window. So we traded our PORV (148,100 star options) and “upgraded” to Westin Flex (183,000 star options) which allows us to book, as owners, at 12 months out. The additional out of pocket cost was 23,454. We also achieved 4 star Elite status (not sure if that’s of any real value?). It’s our understanding the flex options allow us to book about 13 days in the summer and 10 days in the winter as opposed to just one week if we “owned”.

This seemed like a good idea a couple of days ago since the PORV seems to have little resale value and allows us to book at the desired resort earlier. We’re still in our rescission time period.

After reviewing some threads we’re confused and thinking we may have made a big mistake!

We see a lot of suggestions to purchase resales, for pennies on the dollar, but not sure how the points/Star Options would work, compared to Flex purchase. Also, not sure if Avon Villas are even available for resale (having a hard time finding any, for re-sale).

Any advice or suggestions, that this is the best way for us to obtain WESTIN Riverfront Mountain Villas priority, would be appreciated.

 

[echino]

1. Rescind.
2. You can buy Westin Riverfront Mountain Villas resale. I see summer EOY Odd for sale on Redweek right now for $8,500.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Here's an Avon EOY on Ebay for sale for $1 (Note: you will need to conduct due diligence on the seller as I am not familiar)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SHERATON-L...443799?hash=item3414cf8557:g:LGwAAOSwzwxdkhBQ

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@hanaleihaze Did you buy WPORV from the developer? If so you can use your 148,000 staroptions associated with WPORV to book Avon at the 8 month mark without further cost or effort.

The question is whether it's worth $23.5k to get 35,000 more points? (sounds pricey to me).

If it is a resale unit, why don't you have them requal WPORV (and possibly WKORV if resale) into a 148k and 176k SO unit and then pay $10k per the thread below for addiional flex? You would then would have a ton of SOs.

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...ting-cheaper-and-cheaper.296131/#post-2342964

 

[echino]

That's Sheraton Lakeside Terrace, cannot really compare to Westin Riverfront Mountain Villas. The $8,500 one on Redweek is too expensive, you can actually find a summer week much cheaper. I see one for $1,250 on SMTN.

 

[hanaleihaze]

1. Rescind.
2. You can buy Westin Riverfront Mountain Villas resale. I see summer EOY Odd for sale on Redweek right now for $8,500.

Thanks for the reply...
Questions:
1) What do we do w/PORV, since resale seems to be nothing
2) We want EY, not EOY. Have you seen any of those? (Again, Westin RMV, only...not Sheraton).
3)What transfers w/ a resale...that is...Options, etc. How do you guarantee you'll get same benefits as Original owner.

Thanks!!

 

[CalGalTraveler]

There was an analysis on another Vistana thread that there are a limited number (38) of Westin Riverfronts and even fewer in Flex. You may not be able to reserve. Best to buy a resale week. Not cheap but will be guaranteed.

You can sell WPORV with a broker (Syed Sarmad specializes in Hawaii) fee. Or for free on TUG or low fee on Redweek. Price it competitively and someone will take it. Worst case you can give it away on TUG. (people will take Hawaii).

 

[hanaleihaze]

@hanaleihaze Did you buy WPORV from the developer? If so you can use your 148,000 staroptions to book Avon at the 8 month mark without further cost or effort.

The question is whether it's worth $23.5k to get 35,000 more points? (sounds pricey to me).

If it is a resale unit, why don't you have them requal WPORV (and possibly WKORV if resale) into a 148k and 176k SO unit and then pay $10k per the thread below for addiional flex? You would then would have a ton of SOs.

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...ting-cheaper-and-cheaper.296131/#post-2342964

Thanks...
1.) These units seem to always be completely booked, at the 8 month window. They were 95% occupied, last week, and seem to be that way, year round.
2.) We bought from developer.

This flex seems to allow us to book ANY time, except weeks 51 - 52, which we would not want, anyway. That is one of the main reasons we were sold....the ability to book, as owner, 12 mos out....at this resort, or at KORN, as an add on to our existing (other) ownership.

 

[echino]

StarOptions do not transfer on resale for WPORV, that's why it has nearly zero resale value. But if you bought it from the developer, then you have StarOptions, so it has value to you. You can use your WPORV ownership to stay there or use StarOptions to book elsewhere, like extend your Maui stay.

You will likely not get into Westin Riverfront with StarOptions, and you will not get there with Flex either, because of extremely limited inventory in the trust, most of it in mud season. If you want Westin Riverfront, buy a deed there.

 

[hanaleihaze]

There was an analysis on another Vistana thread that there are a limited number (47) of Westin Riverfronts and even fewer in Flex. You may not be able to reserve. Best to buy a resale week. Not cheap but will be guaranteed.

You can sell WPORV with a broker (Syed Sarmad specializes in Hawaii) fee. Or for free on TUG or low fee on Redweek. Price it competitively and someone will take it. Worst case you can give it away on TUG. (people will take Hawaii).

Thanks...do you happen to have a link to that thread? Appreciate the replies

 

[hanaleihaze]

StarOptions do not transfer on resale for WPORV, that's why it has nearly zero resale value. But if you bought it from the developer, then you have StarOptions, so it has value to you. You can use your WPORV ownership to stay there or use StarOptions to book elsewhere, like extend your Maui stay.

You will likely not get into Westin Riverfront with StarOptions, and you will not get there with Flex either, because of extremely limited inventory in the trust, most of it in mud season. If you want Westin Riverfront, buy a deed there.

We're not sure that using PROV SO, to extend Maui, would even work...as you can't book the extention/SO until 8 mos.
It seems trying to book any highly desired Westin villas, anywhere, at 8 mos out, doesn't easily happen.

We asked the sales people if there was inventory, for flex owners, at RMV/Avon, for times of year we would travel (not high season, but summer or Spring/Fall) and, of course, were told YES. Not sure how to get a definitive answer, from Vistana
Sales said that it's all based on 'timestamp'. Yeah....sure ;-)

 

[echino]

Spring/Fall yes, summer difficult, ski impossible.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Thanks...do you happen to have a link to that thread? Appreciate the replies

Here you go. This is our estimate of what Westin Flex inventory currently looks like. We believe that currently Westin Flex has a very limited number of units in Avon. We estimate it to be 12 in fact. You would do better with Sheraton Flex but won't get WRMV. Looks like Flex would easily get you into Desert and WPORV - go figure!

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php...k-i-should-rescind.295123/page-2#post-2334369

Resort / # Flex weeks / # Flex Units / Total Units / % Total Units in Flex

Hawaii Weeks:
WKORV: 1101 / 22 units (IV only) / 173 / 12.7% (% includes OV/OF units; higher % if just IV)
WKORV-N: 1304 / 26 units (IV only) / 258 / 10.1% (% includes OV/OF units; higher % if just IV)
Nanea: 1872 / 37 units (IV only) / 390 / 9.5% (% includes OV/OF units; higher % if just IV)
WPORV: 1944 / 39 units / 173 / 22.5%
Total Hawaii: 6221 / 124 units

Desert Weeks:
WDW: 3422 / 68 units / 220 / 30.9%
WMH: 1305 / 26 units / 158 / 16.5 %
WKV: 494 / 10 units / 149 / 6.7%
Total Desert: 5221 / 104 units

Colorado:
WRMV: 612 / 12 units / 34 / 35.3%


Seasons will make a big difference to the WRMV because if those are primarily mud weeks then not valuable. But if ski then highly valuable.

Hat tip to @jabberwocky for the Flex inventory info

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Bottom line: there are more WRMV units in SO than in Flex. Whether the 12 month window makes a difference for those 12 units is a $23.5k crap shoot.

I am sure you could find a resale WRMV for much less than that during non-ski weeks.

Why don't you call the resort HOA and ask for resale brokers who specialize in their resort. Who knows? maybe they have some units that are under foreclosure that they would love to sell you.

 

[hanaleihaze]

Bottom line: there are more WRMV units in SO than in Flex. Whether the 12 month window makes a difference for those 12 units is a $24.5k crap shoot. I am sure you could find a resale WRMV. Why don't you call the resort HOA and ask for brokers who specialize in their resales.

Thanks, much for that info.

Sounds like I have a better shot, as SO (w/my PORV stinker ownership), at a summer unit at WRMV at 8 mos out, than as a Flex owner, at 12 mos out. Am I understanding your 'bottom line' correctly?
Apologies for my naiveté.

We appreciate the feedback, very much!

 

[byeloe]

Am I understanding your 'bottom line' correctly?

yes

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@hanaleihaze I cannot tell you for sure because I don't have visibility to the actual inventory. If it were me, I wouldn't do it because it's a lot of money to bet on a "maybe."

I would rather go for a "for sure" and find a deeded unit with guaranteed reservation availability and then sell WPORV. If you want more SOs to trade beyond WMRV then you could buy a mandatory resale of a different unit for lower MF/point.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Here are a bunch of listings on Redweek. Also check out the TUG marketplace and SMTN. Remember you can make offers. These are just asking prices and verify that a broker actually has a listing and this is not a fishing expedition ad for them.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@hanaleihaze Here's another two ideas that are a lot less expensive:

1) Rent: Why don't you rent out WPORV and use money to rent WRMV?

There are a lot of rentals on Redweek for WRMV so you will get the exact week you want rather than playing SO and Flex roulette.

https://www.redweek.com/resort/P5861-the-westin-riverfront-mountain-villas/timeshare-rentals

Also check out TUG marketplace.

2)Trade: If you find a unit or owner that works out for you perhaps you could arrange a trade? They get to use WPORV and you get to use WRMV with guest certs. They are getting the sweetheart deal because you pay $1000 more in MF than they do but perhaps it pays off because you don't have to outlay another $20k for a unit. You could trade for 20 years and still be ahead on Breakeven vs. purchasing today.

Or eventually a permanent trade....

 

[hanaleihaze]

@hanaleihaze Here's another two ideas that are a lot less expensive:

1) Rent: Why don't you rent out WPORV and use money to rent WRMV?

There are a lot of rentals on Redweek for WRMV so you will get the exact week you want rather than playing SO and Flex roulette.

https://www.redweek.com/resort/P5861-the-westin-riverfront-mountain-villas/timeshare-rentals

Also check out TUG marketplace.

2)Trade: If you find a unit or owner that works out for you perhaps you could arrange a trade? They get to use WPORV and you get to use WRMV with guest certs. They are getting the sweetheart deal because you pay $1000 more in MF than they do.

Or eventually a permanent trade....

Again...many thanks for the replies and the great info.

We've never tried to rent out our PORV, so not sure of that process. Would list it here, or on Redweek? Wouldn't we be directly competing with Bonvoy (and their rates)?

Also...not sure if you know, or if we'd need to contact a WRMV owner/listing directly....if they state floating high season, would we be able to use ANY time of year? Like summer? I know that's how our WKORN and WPORV work. Even though we have platinum, we can book whatever time of year we'd like.

What is the best way to contact WRMV HOA? And....
What is best way to find a potential trader? Here on TUG?

Thanks SO much for the advice, all

 

[CalGalTraveler]

2 options for renting out WPORV:

1) use someone like @DeniseM who could handle renting out your unit for a fee

2) DIY:

1) Check out buying, renting thread stickies on how to rent
2) Check out WPORV rentals on Redweek to get an idea of rental prices.
3) Decide if you will rent 2 bdrm or lock off and rent 2x, and then book a popular week in summer or whale season
4) rent it out on redweek, TUG etc. use contracts etc from stickies in #1.
​

re: contacting HOA. I would call the front desk and ask.

3) Exchange: Tug has a free exchange marketplace. May take a while but Hawaii is popular.

Other option: approach the renters for WMRV who list on Redweek etc. and ask if they would consider a trade.

Good luck! and don't forget to rescind your purchase before the deadline. It will always be there if these options don't work out.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Personally - I like our EOY WPORV (1Bd side), but we use it and reserve it 12 months in advance (exactly). We consistently get the best villas at WPORV. Great resort, the 1Bd side has a great layout, and the staff fantastic.
I use the SO for the studio to get 6 nites in the 1Bd (@ exactly 8 months) and have gotten good villa locations.
We go in Sept - weather is usually great.

 

[hanaleihaze]

2 options for renting out WPORV:

1) use someone like @DeniseM who could handle renting out your unit for a fee

2) DIY:

1) Check out buying, renting thread stickies on how to rent
2) Check out WPORV rentals on Redweek to get an ideal of rental prices.
3) Decide if you will rent 2 bdrm or lock off and rent 2x, and then book a popular week in summer or whale season
4) rent it out on redweek, TUG etc. use contracts etc from stickies in #1.
​

re: contacting HOA. I would call the front desk and ask.

3) Exchange: Tug has a free exchange marketplace. May take a while but Hawaii is popular.

Other option: approach the renters for WMRV who list on Redweek etc. and ask if they would consider a trade.

Good luck! and don't forget to rescind your purchase before the deadline. It will always be there if these options don't work out.

Thank you SO much for this very helpful and valuable information. You have given us several great options, to consider.
I appreciate your help and your time....and, everyone's input!!
What a great forum for timeshare owners TUGS is.
We will continue to do our option research (rentals/trades, etc.), right here

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Good luck! Let us know what you decide to do and please research/stick around TUG to learn about ways to maximize your ownership.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@hanaleihaze Here's another option to Rent WRMV via Marriott.com

You could:

1) convert your WPORV to Bonvoy points and pay with points. But may not convert to enough points.
2) Pay cash and use the 25% owners discount. See how this compares to renting from an owner.