westgate to buy VI Resorts? wow!

[pedro47]

Sunterta was purchased by Diamond Resort International; and Hilton Vacation Club then purchased Diamond Resort correct. .

 

[alexinorlando]

Vi has been around since the 70’s and has only 40,000 members and I’m almost certain the demographic of that base is older.

Westgate has been around since the 80’s and has close to 400,000 owners. Westgate’s owner base is definitely very mixed demographically with a much lower age average of owners.

In my humble opinion, Vi’s marketing and sales model is not sustainable and not conducive for growth. Although it appears very customer focused and friendly they are not doing a good job of getting “fresh / new blood in the system”. That current model is not sustainable especially as the owner base ages out.

Westgate is the complete opposite. They are probably one of the most aggressive/ successful timeshares companies at getting “fresh blood/ new blood” this is their specialty. They have the largest outside marketing presence out of all the major timeshare companies. Westgate is extremely good at getting new customers and selling them a timeshare. Many here consider them “the worst” because of these well known aggressive marketing and sales strategies they employ.

What Westgate has been lacking is good customer service and product development for their owners. In the sense that Westgate up until this date was the only major timeshare organization not offering or selling some type of points product for their existing owners. They are still selling fixed / floating weekly interval timeshare products with no type of real / good internal exchange option. Westgate’s current internal exchange system can be expensive to use and not very flexible. It’s not customer focused in my opinion.

I believe Westgate’s internal sales team who sells to existing members is not as effective upgrading existing members because they are limited with the products they offer (not offering a points based flexible exchange product) like some of the other companies out there (Wyndham, Hilton, Marriott).

So if implemented correctly I believe this can be a win, win, win situation for everyone involved. Meaning for Vi’s owner base gets new / fresh blood flowing through the system and new locations added to the existing trust or internal exchange system. Westgate’s current owners get an opportunity to upgrade to a more flexible/ better timeshare product with more resort options to use. And Westgate as a company gets more dot’s on the map, and more sales / upgrade opportunities and grows into a better timeshare company with more customers friendly internal points exchange system (hopefully).

If Westgate combines the best parts of both companies (Vi’s better more flexible product and friendly / good customer service approach with Westgate’s marketing and sales machine and beautiful world class resorts) this could be really good for all involved.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

'VI' not 'VRI'.

Correct. Thanks.

 

[easyrider]

I wonder how that will change with Worstgate.

My guess is it will be like when Wyndham took management over from Trendwest for Worldmark. All of the resorts had a credit value in Worldmark which stayed the same with Wyndham management. New resorts that Wyndham developed for Worldmark required more credits for owners to reserve. Some of the new resorts included Wyndham inventory so it's a mix of Worldmark and Wyndham. Through Wyndham programs offered to Worldmark owners, some Wyndham inventory is available for Worldmark members.

Bill

 

[rickandcindy23]

Looking at VI Resorts, it looks like a similar setup as MROP. Would that be a good comparison? Perhaps even Worldmark would be another comparison. They don't necessarily control all the units at a property, but perhaps they do at some or many? Westgate seems like an odd pairing here given they are a traditional weeks based model. Does Westgate want to move into points based trust like VI Resorts is setup? It would seem like Capital Vacations was a better fit, though no better for VI Resorts owners.

A lot of WorldMark resorts also have VI units. WorldMark Steamboat Springs is one I know for sure. Also, VI and WM both had Valley Isle as an option, but Valley Isle is no longer an option. It was a great option for both systems' owners.

 

[bizaro86]

I wonder if Westgate will try and upgrade existing owners to the points system. If they did that they could get a lot od Westgate inventory into the trust quickly.

 

[dioxide45]

I wonder if Westgate will try and upgrade existing owners to the points system. If they did that they could get a lot od Westgate inventory into the trust quickly.

Perhaps that or also sell them a small number of points with VI and push the Direct Exchange that Bill mentioned in post #21. They could then deposit their Westgate weeks into VI for more points. Then they don't need to go through the trouble of actually converting the Westgate weeks to the VI trust.

 

[VI Guy]

I own both Worldmark and VI.

Wyndham took over Worldmark, and the premium of owning a timeshare (worldmark) compared to simply renting condo/hotel properties slowly dissappeared. Not to mention that Wyndham nickels and dimes the Worldmark owners (ie charging for WIFI? so 2005)

I fear that the value for money and flexibility that we have enjoyed with VI over the years is set to slowly/quickly evaporate. I hope that the secondary market for VI ownership stays flexible and liquid as it has been to date.

 

[easyrider]

I own both Worldmark and VI.

Wyndham took over Worldmark, and the premium of owning a timeshare (worldmark) compared to simply renting condo/hotel properties slowly dissappeared. Not to mention that Wyndham nickels and dimes the Worldmark owners (ie charging for WIFI? so 2005)

I fear that the value for money and flexibility that we have enjoyed with VI over the years is set to slowly/quickly evaporate. I hope that the secondary market for VI ownership stays flexible and liquid as it has been to date.

I agree that Wyndham has messed with the management to their profit. The internet was about $50 a year which didn't bother me but on this last trip the internet was about $150 a year which was unexpected. I'm not sure when the WM bonus time rule change happened to Friday Saturday and Sunday where we have to use two nights if it's available. I still find WM a way better value than a hotel. The secondary market for WM is way lower priced compared to the last five years,imo. The last two memberships we took on were free.

VI does seem to retain some resale value but not much. Resale or death is the only way out of a VI perpetual membership. With Westgate I'm sure the only way out will be resale as they offer no formal paid off timeshare return program. Neither does VI.

Bill

 

[dioxide45]

I own both Worldmark and VI.

Wyndham took over Worldmark, and the premium of owning a timeshare (worldmark) compared to simply renting condo/hotel properties slowly dissappeared. Not to mention that Wyndham nickels and dimes the Worldmark owners (ie charging for WIFI? so 2005)

I fear that the value for money and flexibility that we have enjoyed with VI over the years is set to slowly/quickly evaporate. I hope that the secondary market for VI ownership stays flexible and liquid as it has been to date.

I thought Worldmark has always charged for WiFi and when a WM owner stays at a Club Wyndham (through ClubPass), WiFi is complementary? I understand that WM charges for WiFi to keep fees down. Those who want it can pay for it and those that don't or can use their phone as a hotspot don't have to pay for it.

WM can certainly start offering WiFi complementary as long as WM owners are willing to pay for it through their annual fees. This sounds like an issue for the WM BOD.

 

[easyrider]

I thought Worldmark has always charged for WiFi and when a WM owner stays at a Club Wyndham (through ClubPass), WiFi is complementary? I understand that WM charges for WiFi to keep fees down. Those who want it can pay for it and those that don't or can use their phone as a hotspot don't have to pay for it.

WM can certainly start offering WiFi complementary as long as WM owners are willing to pay for it through their annual fees. This sounds like an issue for the WM BOD.

There is no way it should cost $130 a year for three devices for wifi. It's been about $50 since I can remember. I thought the cost was higher. Three devices doesn't cut it with a bunch of grand kids and kids going with us. This next trip I'm thinking it will cost an additional $89.95 for everyone to have WiFi.

Bill

Non-TravelShare Wi-Fi Payment Plans​

	1 day	10 days	1 year
3 devices	$9.95	$49.95	$129.95
6 devices	$14.95	$69.95	$179.95
10 devices	$19.95	$89.95	$219.95

 

[dioxide45]

There is no way it should cost $130 a year for three devices for wifi. It's been about $50 since I can remember. I thought the cost was higher. Three devices doesn't cut it with a bunch of grand kids and kids going with us. This next trip I'm thinking it will cost an additional $89.95 for everyone to have WiFi.

Bill

Non-TravelShare Wi-Fi Payment Plans​

	1 day	10 days	1 year
3 devices	$9.95	$49.95	$129.95
6 devices	$14.95	$69.95	$179.95
10 devices	$19.95	$89.95	$219.95

But isn't that something that should be taken up by the WM BOD? Is the board mainly controlled by Wyndham?

 

[easyrider]

But isn't that something that should be taken up by the WM BOD? Is the board mainly controlled by Wyndham?

Probably & yes. I guess I shouldn't be complaining as I've never voted.

Bill

 

[bizaro86]

But isn't that something that should be taken up by the WM BOD? Is the board mainly controlled by Wyndham?

It should be taken up with the WM board but it is 100% controlled by Wyndham. Wyndham uses free wifi as a developer sales perk so theres no benefit for them to change it.

 

[TUGBrian]

got this reply from Westgate in regards to cross platform trading:

"There is no direct exchange available since Westgate and the VI Club are two separate brands and clubs, however, vacation exchange can be made through an Interval International (II) membership and both groups of owners will be given priority exchange rights within Interval."

 

[easyrider]

got this reply from Westgate in regards to cross platform trading:

"There is no direct exchange available since Westgate and the VI Club are two separate brands and clubs, however, vacation exchange can be made through an Interval International (II) membership and both groups of owners will be given priority exchange rights within Interval."

All of the best dates at the best locations regarding VI are reserved pretty much at 6 am when the reservation window opens meaning II is getting left overs from VI. The one thing that could end up being a problem is if Westgate sells too many VI memberships to the point of more competition for the best dates and location senario.

Bill

 

[Pair-A-Dice]

Torres Mazatlan was a battleground when VI ended the Sunterra Agreement, fences went up between parts of the property, it was ugly.

Vallarta Torres is another VI resort that has a sales team. Owners are invited by their 'representative' to a very casual breakfast in their nice little open air restaurant by the pool and, in my experience, only mention the word sales if you initiate it. I wonder how that will change with Worstgate.

Carriage Place in Las Vegas has a sales team. They offered us a free dinner and tried to talk us into a Platinum membership. Everything was very nice until I said no. The sales rep became very rude, I was totally surprised by this.

 

[kupool]

got this reply from Westgate in regards to cross platform trading:

"There is no direct exchange available since Westgate and the VI Club are two separate brands and clubs, however, vacation exchange can be made through an Interval International (II) membership and both groups of owners will be given priority exchange rights within Interval."

WG owner here since 1998. Per the various press releases, I can definitely see WG using this in the sales efforts within WG properties. One thing is not very clear is the value proposition to WG owners. In the comms WG has done on social media, e.g. Facebook, WG owners will be able to exchange into VI through II "as they have always done" but with "priority".

Maybe there will be some sort of algorithm in II for the "priority"? I asked on FB if the exchange through II is based on TDI index and the response was "this is the same as existing exchanges within II".

The biggest complaint I have about WG is how members get totally screwed in II exchanges due to how deposits with II are handled and the poor the TDI index based on their method. Here is what WG does. If a member wants to deposit their week into II, WG looks for the soonest availability outside of 60 days (II has a 60 day deposit rule). So, if an owner wants to take advantage of the II incentives to deposit in November to December of the upcoming year, the WG process is to pick a date of first availability of "request + 60 days = deposit". For almost all WG locations this equates to an off season deposit that has a horrible TDI with minimal trading value. WG use to allow owners to deposit an existing reservation with a high TDI into II, but those days are gone. Previously I was able to deposit a July (150 TDI) into II and was able to trade into Maui for Thanksgiving (150 TDI). I tried this two years ago and WG cancelled by July (150 TDI) and deposited a March (100 TDI). GRRRR. Ultimately the reversed it. Today, if I were to try and deposit a July (150 TDI) I will need to place the request with WG 60 days out from July (meaning May) and hope something comes up. Otherwise it is the first available date past 60 days, i.e. shoulder season or off season with a horrible TDI. I've asked WG sales folks, local mgmt, even attended the annual owners event with corporate and asked....each time the response is fining ignorance.