Washington says stay at home until May 1 ,2020

[geekette]

Yes, exactly. Home Depot is making a killing (pun on words) now so they can afford to offer delivery services. I can‘t believe Hobby Lobby is open. Are arts and crafts essential? I wonder if Michael’s is still open? If we are going to shut down, let’s shut down and make it work. I was not one initially in favor of a global shut down but now that I am shut down, I am all in. So it bugs me to see some non-essential services still open.

Hobby Lobby and JoAnn Fabrics were still open here last I knew. I do not find those to be essential. JoAnn was donating med-grade fabric and elastic for mask-making, then taking completed masks to health care workers. From that standpoint, they were "helping the war effort".

Target already sells more than food. Walmart, too. I don't think they should have to shut down the non-food side of things.

 

[geekette]

My problem with Hobby Lobby, Michaels, and such is the government is picking certain companies over others. Okay so Hobby Lobby has to close. Why then can Target and Walmart continue to be able to sell the same product in their stores that Hobby Lobby and other craft stores sell? Shouldn't Walmart and Target have to close off those sections of their stores since that isn't essential. If people shouldn't be out shopping for it, then they shouldn't be going to Walmart for it instead. The same could be true of stores like Gap. Why can Costco and Walmart continue to sell clothes, but Gap and other mall stores have to close?

eventually, they won't have these other items to sell.

Trucks are hauling essentials, most other stuff has stopped moving.

 

[geekette]

I'm guessing those other stores also sell medicine and groceries ...
But hey, if it's a Darwinian World just let all the stores and restaurants stay open and let the chips fall where they may

Depending on what state you live in, nothing has changed!

 

[dioxide45]

Target already sells more than food. Walmart, too. I don't think they should have to shut down the non-food side of things.

Why not? Currently they are being provided with a government mandated competitive advantage over those stores deemed non essensial. If we want to be consistent, shouldn't they have to adhere to the same non essensial mandates? Everyone is all about saving lives and by shutting those non essential departments down it should help keep more people at home. No?

 

[pittle]

I am on the Design Review Committee for our HOA. I have been surprised at the number of requests for exterior painting and landscaping projects. We generally get about 6 per week and are now getting that many each day. I see families working on their home and yard when I take the dog for a walk. So, Lowe's & Home Depot are proving some essential items. Families are working together and homes are being maintained.

 

[geekette]

Why not? Currently they are being provided with a government mandated competitive advantage over those stores deemed non essensial. If we want to be consistent, shouldn't they have to adhere to the same non essensial mandates? Everyone is all about saving lives and by shutting those non essential departments down it should help keep more people at home. No?

I don't find it feasible to do, and enforcement would further endanger employees.

Who decides what is "essential"? Should I be able to buy detergent or a trash can? If I can get the air filter for my car there, it prevents a second stop at the auto part store. Should the sudden-homeschool parents be prevented from buying school supplies? Which aisles do they barricade? The ones with bath towels or kitchen equipment? Is shampoo or a hair brush actually necessary?

There aren't easy answers, but some stores were granted "essential" status. None of this is up to me. Some areas haven't made any stores shut down. Pick on them vs the half of Walmart you don't think people should have access to.

 

[Luanne]

I did not know that Michael's were closed. Children needs some type of constructive projects to do until schools reopen. Art and Crafts .IMO

With Target and Walmart open you can find some craft materials there. Also, I think Michael's offers product online. I just got some coupons by email for them today.

 

[DaveNV]

Another point about Hobby Lobby: According to their website, they are a "ministry." They're likely pulling the same religion card that churches in some areas are pulling, to avoid having to be shut down. They don't seem to understand the risk they're putting people into.

Dave

 

[Luanne]

Another point about Hobby Lobby: According to their website, they are a "ministry." They're likely pulling the same religion card that churches in some areas are pulling, to avoid having to be shut down. They don't seem to understand the risk they're putting people into.

Dave

This was the article I found about Hobby Lobby reopening some of their stores. I found some other articles that make it sound like JoAnne's and Michael's are also claiming they are essential due to having material to make masks and protective gear.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hobby-lobby-open-essential-business-stay-at-home-orders/

 

[dioxide45]

Who decides what is "essential"?

My point exactly.

 

[dioxide45]

Another point about Hobby Lobby: According to their website, they are a "ministry." They're likely pulling the same religion card that churches in some areas are pulling, to avoid having to be shut down. They don't seem to understand the risk they're putting people into.

Dave

To be fair, would we be seeing the outrage we are seeing with Hobby Lobby if they were not a Christian based organization? It probably wouldn't even have been a news story if they weren't. At least not national news.

 

[DaveNV]

To be fair, would we be seeing the outrage we are seeing with Hobby Lobby if they were not a Christian based organization? It probably wouldn't even have been a news story if they weren't. At least not national news.

They kind of brought it all on themselves, based on their history in the media. I think the larger questions are "Why does that make them special? and Why should they get preferential treatment?" I have no argument with religion, per se, nor with religious organizations that are straightforward with what they're all about. But this is a matter of public health and safety, and seems very cavalier. Claiming religious privilege doesn't reduce the risk to the average shopper.

To my mind, "essential" means "necessary to live." Food and so forth are essential. Buying craft supplies for a bored child is not. (Maybe greatly desired, if only to keep the sanity at home for stressed-out parents, but not essential for life.) Just because they sell mask-making supplies should not give Hobby Lobby a pass. Make that material available up front, or provide it to an outside mask-making organization, and leave it at that.

Dave

 

[Sugarcubesea]

True. They could have gone to a delivery only like other businesses. I want to know why Hobby Lobby is still open and why they think they are essential.

The Hobby Lobby in my area had to be shut down by the police... They kept insisting they were essential

 

[TravelTime]

dioxide45
Got you. I heard and read your concerns and your observations of selling clothing in the larger retail chains .

Maybe this is why Costco, BJ's and Sam Clubs tire centers are closed. These tire centers are not inside the building where groceries, the pharmacy and the wine and beer are located and sold.

Petsmart closed their grooming salon but the pet store section is open because it sells pet food. I bet if the grooming salon were still open, people would be using it. Stores could section off non essential areas so people only go out for essentials like food and medicine.

 

[dioxide45]

They kind of brought it all on themselves, based on their history in the media. I think the larger questions are "Why does that make them special? and Why should they get preferential treatment?" I have no argument with religion, per se, nor with religious organizations that are straightforward with what they're all about. But this is a matter of public health and safety, and seems very cavalier. Claiming religious privilege doesn't reduce the risk to the average shopper.

To my mind, "essential" means "necessary to live." Food and so forth are essential. Buying craft supplies for a bored child is not. (Maybe greatly desired, if only to keep the sanity at home for stressed-out parents, but not essential for life.) Just because they sell mask-making supplies should not give Hobby Lobby a pass. Make that material available up front, or provide it to an outside mask-making organization, and leave it at that.

Dave

Whether they brought it on themselves or not, I don't think it negates my previous statement. I certainly don't think there is anything that makes them more special or that they should get preferential treatment. I just did some reporting myself and called the local Hobby Lobby which said they will be shutting down tonight at 8pm. Then I called the semi local Joann Fabrics, they will be open through the weekend and beyond. Seems like two stores that sell very similar products are either being treated differently or choosing to operate differently under the current Florida Stay at Home order. Perhaps based on different interpretations or perhaps perception based on the current stories in the news.

 

[DaveNV]

Whether they brought it on themselves or not, I don't think it negates my previous statement. I certainly don't think there is anything that makes them more special or that they should get preferential treatment. I just did some reporting myself and called the local Hobby Lobby which said they will be shutting down tonight at 8pm. Then I called the semi local Joann Fabrics, they will be open through the weekend and beyond. Seems like two stores that sell very similar products are either being treated differently or choosing to operate differently under the current Florida Stay at Home order. Perhaps based on different interpretations or perhaps perception based on the current stories in the news.

I wasn't negating your previous statement. I was responding to your question of whether their media "fame" made them a kind of target.

I can't speak to Florida, or how things are being done there. I do know things here in Washington went through an "adjustment" period after our stay-at-home order was put in place, and some businesses that initially were open have now closed. So maybe things where you are will be going through the same sort of thing.

Dave

 

[dioxide45]

I wasn't negating your previous statement. I was responding to your question of whether their media "fame" made them a kind of target.

I can't speak to Florida, or how things are being done there. I do know things here in Washington went through an "adjustment" period after our stay-at-home order was put in place, and some businesses that initially were open have now closed. So maybe things where you are will be going through the same sort of thing.

Dave

I think what I am trying to say, is that it isn't media "fame" that is making them a target. It is in fact they are a closely held religious organization. Hobby Lobby along with Chick-fil-a aren't common targets by the media because of "media fame."

Regarding Florida, it is quite possible that could be the case. I just doubt we will see a story in the news about Joann Fabrics, but if the opposite of what I said was true, we would be more likely to hear about Hobby Lobby.

 

[DaveNV]

I think what I am trying to say, is that it isn't media "fame" that is making them a target. It is in fact they are a closely held religious organization. Hobby Lobby along with Chick-fil-a aren't common targets by the media because of "media fame."

Regarding Florida, it is quite possible that could be the case. I just doubt we will see a story in the news about Joann Fabrics, but if the opposite of what I said was true, we would be more likely to hear about Hobby Lobby.

I agree, with one caveat: Hobby Lobby initially became media famous for refusing to provide medically-authorized birth control programs for female employees, due expressly to their religious beliefs. The more things were pushed one way, the more they pushed the other way. They played the religion card to support their position. Without that religious connection, they'd be just another retailer. So I maintain their media "fame" was directly due to their religious beliefs.

Chick-FIl-A became similarly notorious for similar reasons, but based around active discrimination against a recognized class of citizens.

Dave

 

[MrockStar]

Well, if you can't hire a plumber, you gotta do it yourself (I have a toilet I need to fix). If my water heater blows, I gotta do it myself. If I can't make money, I gotta grow my own food. I'll want to replace burned out light bulbs. I'll need water softener salt. I can't fix my broken oven, but I could get a new one.

Much more than "improvement" involved. Even for apartment dwellers that can call the landlord for problems, landlord or property mgmt has to get the stuff somewhere.

Essential in my book. Along with car part stores and service bays. gotta keep the car running, working or not. Not going to Uber to the hospital.

What is weird to me is that we have counties telling stores, like Target, to stop selling "non-essential items". What are they supposed to do? Store all the greeting cards, fingernail polish and toys? To me, a store is open or it's closed. Halfway is ridiculous.

I was a bit appalled that stores were ordered to stop selling crafty things, books, puzzles, games. Guess home school kids can forget "art class", and we definitely shouldn't encourage reading (?!?!?)

That's just mean. People at home should just amuse themselves counting their toes over and over? We're not jailed, this is a public health matter!

I think the problem is that people took "non-essential" too far in their trips out, and kept taking trips out. I don't think there would be a problem if you picked up a deck of cards, magazines and a yoga mat while at Target, but people going to Target for those items seemed to have triggered this.

Weird times we're living in. If things get tough, I'll just re-read the years of Nat Geographic I have....

You said, what I have been thinking about this Geekette. Good thing I collect VHS tapes and players so I will have something enjoyable to watch instead of 24hrs Covid-19 news that's really depressing. Whew

 

[dioxide45]

I agree, with one caveat: Hobby Lobby initially became media famous for refusing to provide medically-authorized birth control programs for female employees, due expressly to their religious beliefs. The more things were pushed one way, the more they pushed the other way. They played the religion card to support their position. Without that religious connection, they'd be just another retailer. So I maintain their media "fame" was directly due to their religious beliefs.

Chick-FIl-A became similarly notorious for similar reasons, but based around active discrimination against a recognized class of citizens.

Dave

I suppose, but Hobby Lobby did in fact win their case in a landmark ruling at the Supreme Court. It seems that we do agree that their media fame is because of their religious beliefs. That is why I am saying it is their religion that makes them a target of the media. If they didn't have or express those beliefs, no one would pay them any attention.

 

[DaveNV]

I suppose, but Hobby Lobby did in fact win their case in a landmark ruling at the Supreme Court. It seems that we do agree that their media fame is because of their religious beliefs. That is why I am saying it is their religion that makes them a target of the media. If they didn't have or express those beliefs, no one would pay them any attention.

And in those terms, we're saying the same thing. LOL!

Dave

 

[dioxide45]

And in those terms, we're saying the same thing. LOL!

Dave

I know we don't agree on the fundamentals, but that's okay. It isn't like we can't still can't find things we do agree on, like timeshares and civil discussion

 

[Luanne]

New Mexico just extended their stay at home order through the end of April.

You can be a "religious based" business and not make a big deal out of it. Just look at In n Out.

 

[dioxide45]

New Mexico just extended their stay at home order through the end of April.

You can be a "religious based" business and not make a big deal out of it. Just look at In n Out.

I am not sure that either Hobby Lobby or Chick fil a are the only ones making a big deal about their religious beliefs. Those challenging them are equally guilty of making those companies religious beliefs a big deal.

 

[TravelTime]

I am not sure that either Hobby Lobby or Chick fil a are the only ones making a big deal about their religious beliefs. Those challenging them are equally guilty of making those companies religious beliefs a big deal.

I do not care that they are religious. I think they need to follow SIP/SAH orders like everyone else.