War over windows: Charlotte homeowner wins 5-year fight with HOA, gets $75K settlement

[DrQ]

War over windows: Charlotte homeowner wins 5-year fight with HOA, gets $75K settlement

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article294891429.html?utm_source=flipboard&utm_content=CLTObserver/magazine/North+Carolina+News

 

[jp10558]

I'm so glad I don't live with an HOA. But also - why not just paint the window frame? I guess in the end she had enough documentation to prove to the court that they had approved the windows originally - or enough they decided to settle for $75,000. All I know is I'd be pretty mad the HOA decided to spend tens of thousands on court costs and now $75,000 on a settlement instead of paying a painting company probably $1,000 to paint the window frame.

 

[davidvel]

I'm so glad I don't live with an HOA. But also - why not just paint the window frame? I guess in the end she had enough documentation to prove to the court that they had approved the windows originally - or enough they decided to settle for $75,000. All I know is I'd be pretty mad the HOA decided to spend tens of thousands on court costs and now $75,000 on a settlement instead of paying a painting company probably $1,000 to paint the window frame.

We are so glad we live in an HOA community. Well maintained homes, no random odd color schemes or rock covered front yards. Kind of like a nice timeshare.

 

[Carolinian]

We live in a historic district that is both a National Register historic district and organized under NC statutes as a historic district, and our Historic Preservation Commission acts much like an HOA is having to approve any exterior modifications. The commssion's members are appointed by the city council, and my wife has served a term as a member. It is a real asset to the residents in that it prevents someone from remuddling their house to take it out of historic character. We bought an adjacent house a few years ago that we are restoring after it sat vacant tied up in an estate for about ten years. The house we live in is antebellum and the one we are restoring is Victorian.

Windows are a huge issue in our historic district, and the vinyl windows are extremely frowned upon, for good reason. There has been limited approval in a few instances for small ones on the back side of a house where they could not be seen from the street and where they were part of an addition that was new construction.

There are frequent attempts by vinyl window salesmen to intice people to replace windows, but folks tell them we don't want them. The insulating properties of our original 1840s windows with a storm window on top are superior to theirs anyway, and look a whole lot better.

We needed some windows for the Victorian house and had some good quality wooden six over six windows with true divided light custom made by a company in Wilson, NC for about the same price Lowes was charging for the tacky vinyl windows with fake muntins.

 

[geist1223]

We live in a Historic Neighborhood in Salem Oregon. About 2 years ago we replaced the Windows on the 2nd Floor and Basement. After numerous submissions by Renewal by Anderson and 6 months (also payment of a hugh application fee) we finally got permission to go ahead.

 

[jp10558]

We are so glad we live in an HOA community. Well maintained homes, no random odd color schemes or rock covered front yards. Kind of like a nice timeshare.

Well, I'm also glad I don't really have to see many other people around where I live either. We're rural country folk who mind our own business and stay out of what people do on their property and stay out of their business as much as possible and thank them give us the same courtesy. It's one thing if you're coming onto our property and dumping trash or something, but I could not care less, nor do I think it's any of my business, what kind of windows you want to have. Then again, we also can't see our neighbors windows through the woods either. I guess the issue is living in what's basically an apartment but thinking you own it - IDK more power to you if you like that, but with all the HOA horror stories I don't think I'd ever be inclined to buy in an HOA. I could rent of course.

 

[moonstone]

Our FL condo has an HOA of course and for the most part we appreciate their rules. We attended the condo board meeting the other day and a resident had a big complaint about the company the board/HOA says we must use if we are replacing our windows or door. We never heard of a condo where the owner owns the windows, patio door and main entrance door but whatever. The guy 2 doors down from us had all his windows and sliding patio door replaced in Sept by the specified company and has had nothing but problems. The first one was that the installation took place 4 months after the promised date. The company said it was due to delays in getting building permits from the city of St. Augustine Beach. The biggest complaint is that when they went to install the sliding patio door the installers found it to be 3 or 4 inches too wide. They already had the old one removed so a neighbour who was watching (& filming) said a worker took a Sawzall and cut the side of the door frame back by the required amount then they installed the new door with no framing! They screwed the slider to the drywall, put the trim back and left. Of course when the building inspector returned the owner showed him the footage of how the door was installed and he wont ok it. Now the owner or the city can not get the company to return to fix it and the owner is afraid to use the patio door in case it falls out. Owners are demanding that we should be able to use whatever company we want as long as the windows/doors have a white frame.

We are holding off getting our foggy sliding door replaced until all this is settled.

~Diane

 

[davidvel]

Well, I'm also glad I don't really have to see many other people around where I live either. We're rural country folk who mind our own business and stay out of what people do on their property and stay out of their business as much as possible and thank them give us the same courtesy. It's one thing if you're coming onto our property and dumping trash or something, but I could not care less, nor do I think it's any of my business, what kind of windows you want to have. Then again, we also can't see our neighbors windows through the woods either. I guess the issue is living in what's basically an apartment but thinking you own it - IDK more power to you if you like that, but with all the HOA horror stories I don't think I'd ever be inclined to buy in an HOA. I could rent of course.

Well of course when you have a giant plot of land with no fences and woods between homes, that is entirely different. Out here, houses are built 5+ to an acre. A bit different scenario.

 

[DrQ]

Windows are a huge issue in our historic district, and the vinyl windows are extremely frowned upon, for good reason. There has been limited approval in a few instances for small ones on the back side of a house where they could not be seen from the street and where they were part of an addition that was new construction.

There are frequent attempts by vinyl window salesmen to intice people to replace windows, but folks tell them we don't want them. The insulating properties of our original 1840s windows with a storm window on top are superior to theirs anyway, and look a whole lot better.

I don't have an issue with the HOA setting standards, the issue here was that the HOA had APPROVED the windows and then withdrew the approval after the installation.

It looks as if the homeowner could have remedied the situation by working on a compromise but both sides became entrenched:
Charlie Anderson, who became president of the HOA board after the windows were installed, said board members years ago tried to negotiate a compromise that wouldn’t have cost Loeffler anything. Loeffler refused the offer, he said.

When the first settlement was offered, the HOA wanted to bury the details in an NDA which soured the deal.

The windows on Sherry Loeffler’s townhome, second from the right, are white - a sharp contrast with the rest of the building. She says her HOA originally agreed to paint the windows beige so that they would match the rest of the building. But when Loeffler and her HOA got entangled in a dispute over the windows, they weren’t painted. Under the terms of a recent legal settlement, the HOA will paint the windows beige after all.​

I would guess that a previous HOA president/board tried a strong-arm approach and found themselves in a quagmire in which they could not extricate themselves.

 

[jp10558]

I would guess that a previous HOA president/board tried a strong-arm approach and found themselves in a quagmire in which they could not extricate themselves.

It's always a risk if you're "in the wrong" to try and just use "power" to make it someone elses problem - you might get someone who would have been perfectly fine if you came and said
"Whoops, we made a mistake in approving white windowframes, can we send the maintenance people over to paint the outside the same color as the walls?" but when you try and gaslight them "Oh, we didn't approve those, you have to replace the windows entirely at your cost or we'll try and forclose on your house" gets real pissed off and will make a point - potentially rightly so IMO. And then on top of that to try and after the fact "settle" later on when you realize you're wasting a lot of money and time on something that is your fault also try and say "well, we'll stop being an ass, but you have to keep quiet about it" - like at every step the cost, bad press, etc would have been substantially less IMO for the HOA. Instead of a day of labor and a bucket of paint, then instead of probably $10k or something and letting her rant on Facebook, it's now $$ litigation, $75k and national news. Yea, that was smart.

This all sounds like a power trip by the HOA - at least reading in the fact they weren't willing to go to trial with whatever they had to show they didn't approve the windows. My guess is if the HOA is smart, they're going to have much clearer rules now (or ASAP) as to how you get approval for changes and make it as unambiguous as possible. What I guess happened here is the HOA had a "ask a specific group of HOA reps if something is approved" with no specificity in a submission or method and nothing about in writing or with example pics or renders or whatever. So the homeowner went to whoever and asked "Can I get approval to replace my windows with the ones on sale down at Lowes" or something, and the rep assumed the colors and said "Sure, no problem" and maybe even sent an e-mail or basic form or something. Once the white windows were installed, other owners complained, the HOA was like "well, we didn't specifically approve white and of course we meant brown" and went to town with the argument. And I bet they didn't have any proceedures so from the homeowners stance initially she did the right thing - maybe even was like "whew, I can't believe they approved the much cheaper white windows, but I asked and they said yes - score!".

And here we are.

 

[DrQ]

I can see that they are not divided and missing the lower mullions. It said in the text that they were "supposed" to be painted beige before the brewhaha. I wonder if that was the real sticking point.

I think the architectural review committee either had no guidelines or did not do its job. That's the problem when you have these committees made up of volunteers.

 

[TUGBrian]

absolutely agree on "getting everything in writing" and retaining that proof!

is an interesting story while its clear she DID get approval, the HOA seems to believe she installed something other than what was approved.

having been in this exact situation I can see both sides (and clearly the judge agreed with the homeowner).

IMO most "bad hoas" are instead simply run by people who have no business being on the board and making those decisions. Sadly those people get put in place and stay there forever because good people dont want that job and the hassle it comes with.