Vistana Resale vs Developer purchase

[StarwoodCanadafan]

Hi,

I am about to purchase weeks from Starwood to get me Platinum lifetime. The least expensive way right now is through purchasing a number of weeks at the Vistana Fountains. Being cautious, I checked ebay for resales.. and see Vistana selling resale for between $400 and $750 for the 2 BR. This is 10 - 15% of the new price! Wow. While lifetime platinum is good.. it looks like it will come at the price of getting nothing if I need to resell..

Can anyone reading this advise on why the resale price of Vistana is, on average on ebay $500?

I know you don't get Starpoints for conversion as an option... though, I have heard existing owners of Vistana are going to be able to swap into the program for free till Oct 1.

Any help from the wise folks on this board much appreciated...

 

[timeos2]

Your post has the answer. Yes, rsale is a far better value

Hi,

I am about to purchase weeks from Starwood to get me Platinum lifetime. The least expensive way right now is through purchasing a number of weeks at the Vistana Fountains. Being cautious, I checked ebay for resales.. and see Vistana selling resale for between $400 and $750 for the 2 BR. This is 10 - 15% of the new price! Wow. While lifetime platinum is good.. it looks like it will come at the price of getting nothing if I need to resell..

Can anyone reading this advise on why the resale price of Vistana is, on average on ebay $500?

I know you don't get Starpoints for conversion as an option... though, I have heard existing owners of Vistana are going to be able to swap into the program for free till Oct 1.

Any help from the wise folks on this board much appreciated...

While it may be hard to believe you already did the research and found the answer. It is very seldom that a retail (Developer) purchase, even with trumped up perks, is a better value than resale. Remember the fees on both are exactly the same - only the up front purchase cost varies. Which makes more sense to YOU?

 

[DeniseM]

Welcome to TUG! We have a number of owners who have combined resale and developer purchases to reach Plat for far less than reaching Plat with just developer purchases. There are several threads on the various methods they've used. I am going to list the main one below, and I also encourage you to check-out the Starwood FAQ at the top of the page for more info. about how Starwood works.

The monster thread on requalifying

Starwood FAQ

There's lots of other good info. at the top of the board.

 

[StarwoodCanadafan]

Platinum is very attractive to me..

Thanks to both of you for the replies. I saw a thread a while back from Nora who posted all kinds of useful info as well.. and several members responded.

You can buy a resale week in the villages for $400! Developer wants $12950 and now $16950.. quite a huge difference.

I will read about getting to Plat without the hefty purchase.. but, I had thought you had to buy all weeks from the developer to do this. This isn't true?

Loving this site already..!

 

[DeniseM]

You can use a combination of resale weeks and developer weeks. Lots of info. in the link I posted and the FAQ.

 

[nodge]

Welcome to TUG!

The Fountains section of Vistana Resort was only recently allowed to participate in SVN. Existing original and resale purchasers of Fountains II will be allowed to join SVN, but SVO's current position is that resale purchasers whose deeds are recorded after March 31, 2008 will not be offered or allowed to join SVN.

Fountains Owners are also currently dealing with a special assessment due this year.

The uncertainty associated with being able to join SVN, the special assessment, and the fact that virtually all timeshares depreciate remarkably are probably the biggest factors in why the resale Fountains prices are so low. (But I personally think that there is at least wiggle room in the March 31, 2008 cut-off date for resale owners). Here is a link to our current discussions on this subject.

Also, if your primary goal in all of this is to establish SVN elite status, click on this link to see just how quickly the powers that be at SVO recently extinguished one of the only handful of benefits that made being elite even remotely worthwhile. Ask yourself what’s stopping SVO from pulling the same trick again with one or more of the currently surviving elite benefits? (Lesson Learned: Buy where you want to go, even if it costs a little more, because SVO and its promises aren’t worth the paper they are written on, and if it all shut down tomorrow, you’ll end up owning what you bought, so you might as well like it).

I agree that it is a lot of money to spend. Do more research and thinking before you dive in.

Good Luck and consider joining our group as a member.

-nodge

P.S. No you do not need to purchase all of your units from SVO to gain elite status. In general, you should purchase your developer weeks AFTER your resale weeks, and make "requalifying" / "retroing" the resale weeks into SVN a part of your new developer purchase deal(s).

 

[AwayWeGo]

Lifetime Solid Gold & Platinum-Plus V. I. P. Status, Etc., May Be Nice . . .

. . . but in dollars & cents terms, those status & prestige add-ons don't seem to be worth much in terms of what owners actually get in the way of nice timeshares to use & trade & rent out, etc.

Their main purpose seems to be to entice people into paying big bux directly to the timeshare company for what they instead could buy for nickels on the dollar via resale.

Best advice from (most) savvy timesharers I suspect will be to buy resale & forget the status & prestige add-ons. Putting it another way, if a resale at Vistana goes for $500 on eBay then that's approximately what the unit is worth on the open market. Then you can ask yourself whether the status & prestige add-ons are worth what the timeshare company wants you to pay for'm over & above that market price of $500.

Full Disclosure : We're strictly lowball bargain-hunting eBay timeshare bottom feeders, el cheapo resale all the way. We wouldn't pay $2 extra for any status & prestige add-ons from any timeshare company. So before completely dismissing the idea of paying big bux for timeshare status & prestige add-ons, see what some of the people who actually sprang for'm have to say.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[StarwoodCanadafan]

Thank you Node...

Welcome to TUG!

The Fountains section of Vistana Resort was only recently allowed to participate in SVN. Existing original and resale purchasers of Fountains II will be allowed to join SVN, but SVO's current position is that resale purchasers whose deeds are recorded after March 31, 2008 will not be offered or allowed to join SVN.

Fountains Owners are also currently dealing with a special assessment due this year.

The uncertainty associated with being able to join SVN, the special assessment, and the fact that virtually all timeshares depreciate remarkably are probably the biggest factors in why the resale Fountains prices are so low. (But I personally think that there is at least wiggle room in the March 31, 2008 cut-off date for resale owners). Here is a link to our current discussions on this subject.

Also, if your primary goal in all of this is to establish SVN elite status, click on this link to see just how quickly the powers that be at SVO recently extinguished one of the only handful of benefits that made being elite even remotely worthwhile. Ask yourself what’s stopping SVO from pulling the same trick again with one or more of the currently surviving elite benefits? (Lesson Learned: Buy where you want to go, even if it costs a little more, because SVO and its promises aren’t worth the paper there are written on, and if it all shut down tomorrow, you’ll end up owning what you bought, so you might as well like it).

I agree that it is a lot of money to spend. Do more research and thinking before you dive in.

Good Luck and consider joining our group as a member.

-nodge

P.S. No you do not need to purchase all of your units from SVO to gain elite status. In general, you should purchase your developer weeks AFTER your resale weeks, and make "requalifying" / "retroing" the resale weeks into SVN a part of your new developer purchase deal(s).

I saw your helpful posts to a gal who had bought 2 weeks at Vistana on this 'promo' last week ... with your advice to recind I think...

I agree that I need to be concerned to buy properties that I would want to go to... this one may be one of the lowest valued SVO properties.. would you agree?

 

[LisaRex]

Hi, I am about to purchase weeks from Starwood to get me Platinum lifetime.

Do you have ANY SVN units? Hands down the best approach is to reach Platinum is to buy resale FIRST, then developer second. The requal thread and others will give you way more details on how to do this.

I really do love the benefits of SPG Platinum. Folks at Flyertalk say that the upgrades, esp. overseas, can be worth thousands of dollars. And that's very appealing.

However, you have to really think about your lifestyle. How much traveling will you realistically be able to do? How many times will you travel overseas which is where the real Platinum benefits kick in?

I think one poster figured out a way to reach it under $100k USD. That's nothing to sneeze at. That doesn't take into account the several thousands of dollars in MFs you'll pay each year, which are increasing at a rate of 10%+ in some properties. That doesn't take into account that as Starwood adjusts the SPG program, your StarOption ->StarPoint conversion will be worth less and less each year. And also keep in mind that you won't be getting Platinum for Life, but Platinum for as long as you own all your timeshares.

I think achieving Platinum can be a real benefit for people who work the programs to their advantage, travel off season to maximize their benefits, and have a whole lot of time to do nothing but travel and plan their next vacation. For everyone else, I think #1 rule of timeshare owning still applies: buy where you want to stay in the season you want to stay and have a nice vacation.

 

[LisaRex]

I agree that I need to be concerned to buy properties that I would want to go to... this one may be one of the lowest valued SVO properties.. would you agree?

Yes, but remember that if things don't work out, the lowest valued SVO property is also the one with the worst return should you decide to later sell. So it comes at a risk.

Most people that are selling their units for a song and a dance just want to get out of paying their MFs each year. They can be burdensome to people who fall on rough times.

 

[SDKath]

You can buy 2 resale weeks worth 148,100 SOs (Westin Mission Hills is a good bet for this) and "retro" it with 4 Fountains purchases. That would get you to 5* the cheapest.

WMH = 148,100 SO, about $10,000
WMH = 148,100 SO, about $10,000
Fountains x 4 = 76,000 SOx4, about $65,000

600,000 SOs! About 300,000 SPs.
Use 2 fountains to retro each WMH.

Money spent = $86,000 to get to 5* PFL. That's a great deal if that is your objective!! Most people get to 5* with retros/purchases from Starwood direct for over $100,000!

Fountains through the developer is joining SVN in 2009 and you won't get the special assessment if you buy through Starwood. If you buy resale and get 2008 use, you will get $1300 assessments on each unit. Also resale weeks at Fountains will NOT be given the option to join SVN. That ship has sailed. They made it clear that if your deed did not get recorded by March 31, 2008, you will be a "resale" owner regardless and will not get SOs or SPs.

Also, Fountains MFs are very low ($650ish per unit) so if you do this, you will have low MFs.

I think it's a good deal.

The other option to get to 5* quickly is to buy 7.5 weeks at Fountains (one EOY) from Starwood. NO retros to worry about. Cost would be $124,000! That's about what most people pay to get to 5* these days.

Katherine

 

[StarwoodCanadafan]

Thank you Alan.. nice to have such an experienced guy respond!

Thank you Alan for responding...!

. . . but in dollars & cents terms, those status & prestige add-ons don't seem to be worth much in terms of what owners actually get in the way of nice timeshares to use & trade & rent out, etc.

Their main purpose seems to be to entice people into paying big bux directly to the timeshare company for what they instead could buy for nickels on the dollar via resale.

Best advice from (most) savvy timesharers I suspect will be to buy resale & forget the status & prestige add-ons. Putting it another way, if a resale at Vistana goes for $500 on eBay then that's approximately what the unit is worth on the open market. Then you can ask yourself whether the status & prestige add-ons are worth what the timeshare company wants you to pay for'm over & above that market price of $500.

Full Disclosure : We're strictly lowball bargain-hunting eBay timeshare bottom feeders, el cheapo resale all the way. We wouldn't pay $2 extra for any status & prestige add-ons from any timeshare company. So before completely dismissing the idea of paying big bux for timeshare status & prestige add-ons, see what some of the people who actually sprang for'm have to say.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[SDKath]

I'd agree with you except for the PFL benefits. Just read the upgrades people are getting at lovely 5* hotels with their PFL membership! It cannot be beat. My good friend from work got upgraded to a 2BR suite for 6 nights in Paris at one of the Westin hotels. He is PFL. He said it was the nicest hotel and the nicest suite he's ever stayed in his whole entire life. The room was going for over $2000 a night. He just got the upgrade.

Yep, not bargain hunters but with those type of perks, I can see why people who travel a lot want the PFL designation.

Then there are people like me, who have a tough job and can't travel for 7 days straight most of the time. I will be using my SPs to go to hotels for 3-4 nights every month or two rather than taking a longer vacation once a year. I know the "economics" don't pencil out but it will allow me to travel when otherwise I really just wouldn't. We are going to St. Regis Dana Point (Monarch Bay) next month with our points and I jsut cannot wait to be in a gorgeous hotel away from the kids and the hassles of daily life.

It's an individual decision. And yes, I am a bargain hunting eBay girl myself. My resales were dirt cheap!

Katherine

 

[timeos2]

I'd agree with you except for the PFL benefits. Just read the upgrades people are getting at lovely 5* hotels with their PFL membership! It cannot be beat. My good friend from work got upgraded to a 2BR suite for 6 nights in Paris at one of the Westin hotels. He is PFL. He said it was the nicest hotel and the nicest suite he's ever stayed in his whole entire life. The room was going for over $2000 a night. He just got the upgrade.

Yep, not bargain hunters but with those type of perks, I can see why people who travel a lot want the PFL designation.

Then there are people like me, who have a tough job and can't travel for 7 days straight most of the time. I will be using my SPs to go to hotels for 3-4 nights every month or two rather than taking a longer vacation once a year. I know the "economics" don't pencil out but it will allow me to travel when otherwise I really just wouldn't. We are going to St. Regis Dana Point (Monarch Bay) next month with our points and I jsut cannot wait to be in a gorgeous hotel away from the kids and the hassles of daily life.

It's an individual decision. And yes, I am a bargain hunting eBay girl myself. My resales were dirt cheap!

Katherine

Unless you truly a heavy user of hotels and actually prefer Starwood that upgrade may have cost him the $2000 in what he overpaid to get the perk. It is hard to make the case for retail priced timeshares no matter what the brand when resale is SO much less.

 

[tomandrobin]

You can buy 2 resale weeks worth 148,100 SOs (Westin Mission Hills is a good bet for this) and "retro" it with 4 Fountains purchases. That would get you to 5* the cheapest.

WMH = 148,100 SO, about $10,000
WMH = 148,100 SO, about $10,000
Fountains x 4 = 76,000 SOx4, about $65,000

600,000 SOs! About 300,000 SPs.
Use 2 fountains to retro each WMH.

Money spent = $86,000 to get to 5* PFL. That's a great deal if that is your objective!! Most people get to 5* with retros/purchases from Starwood direct for over $100,000!

Fountains through the developer is joining SVN in 2009 and you won't get the special assessment if you buy through Starwood. If you buy resale and get 2008 use, you will get $1300 assessments on each unit. Also resale weeks at Fountains will NOT be given the option to join SVN. That ship has sailed. They made it clear that if your deed did not get recorded by March 31, 2008, you will be a "resale" owner regardless and will not get SOs or SPs.

Also, Fountains MFs are very low ($650ish per unit) so if you do this, you will have low MFs.

I think it's a good deal.

The other option to get to 5* quickly is to buy 7.5 weeks at Fountains (one EOY) from Starwood. NO retros to worry about. Cost would be $124,000! That's about what most people pay to get to 5* these days.

Katherine

Even though your plan to make 5* works, I would not want to own all of those Orlando weeks....Yuck!

I think a successful requalification plan needs to have a few winners, like Harborside, Hawaii or a peak ski week.

I do use my Staroptions for stays, but its hit or miss. There is no way I would want to be stuck with having all those weeks, and having to rely on the 8 month window to book most of my stays at other resorts.

I see no problem with a week or two at VR, I just would recommend to buy at a few premium resorts too.

 

[StarwoodCanadafan]

Survey = buy resale first, then go to starwood

I can get plat now for $97K $5600 main per year.

Value on resale looks to equal $2k right now. Just a bad investment, even to get platinum.

Far better it seems to try to pick up 2 or 3 resales at 10k to 20k each, then top up at Starwood, and get the previous ones retro'd. (If I have the lingo right now!)

Seems a number of people are just dumping Vistana to get out of main costs... this is not a good formula for quality of resort, or quality of clientelle it seems.

I am concluding that Vistana is just not a resort to buy right now..

 

[lprstn]

The special assessment is killing me!!! Paid and extra $1200 on top of MFs...that's why people are giving them away. However I have gotten a lot of good years out of my Vistana resale that I purchased cheaply so I am sticking in...

 

[DeniseM]

Seems a number of people are just dumping Vistana to get out of main costs... this is not a good formula for quality of resort, or quality of clientelle it seems.

I am concluding that Vistana is just not a resort to buy right now..

It's not just Vistana - there are pages and pages of resales on ebay for $1. Resales are just a lot less than what the developer charges. Vistana is no different, although a special assessment always brings a lot of resales onto the market. However, this is not limited to Starwood - these conditions exist across the industry.

For someone who likes to stay in upscale hotels and has the disposable cash to reach 5 Star Elite, I think Plat status can be very valuable. Unfortunately, I'm not one of them!

So far, I think Kath gets the prize for figuring out how to get to 5 Star Elite for the least money.

 

[dss]

I would also caution anyone going for PFL that the benefits are inconsistent and have also been diluted in recent years. I travel a fair deal for work and have been SPG Plat for about five years and I have noticed a major increase in the competition for suite upgrades at hotels and less consistency when applying benefits than in years past. Just a few weeks ago I had a "SPG Elite Line" agent try to charge me for a suite upgrade which is clearly against the T&Cs (it was a standard suite).

So far this year, I have about ten stays completed with only 3-4 decent upgrades. I don't make a fuss when I am on business travel so i'm sure I could have improved the percentage if this was a European vacation, etc... but I guess the point i'm making is as much as I like the SPG program and love SPG Plat benefits, If you genuinely want the units and/or close enough to buy one more to tip you over the edge to 5*, that is one thing, but I would never ever consider spending all this money primarily for the occasional room upgrade.

 

[StarwoodCanadafan]

Don't agree with previous post

Hi,

Firstly, thanks to everyone who posted. It gave me valuable information. I was quite surprised about seeing the resales at Vistana at the levels noted, and had expected them to be around $6000 or $7000.

I can't agree with the previous poster though. There is certain value in the Platinum program. That I can attest to. I have been Platinum in Starwood from hotel stays for about 10 years straight.. going back to Westin Golden Gavel days.. for those who might remember that program. I can speak with some authority on this. It is an excellent program, with terrific benefits.. and a real thing to strive for in terms of staying nights.. and/or purchasing from the developer to obtain.

Also, I will speak out to defend the good sales folks at Starwood.. particularly my gal, who is wonderful to work with.

My concern is only the value of the resale of what I was getting.. which was the reason for the post. I was not looking to try to get Plat for less $ or comment otherwise on the program.. which I think is great.

I will be continuing with my purchase, albeit with a different mix.. with thanks to those who provided input in helping me get there.

 

[Westin5Star]

I am 5* and Platinum for Life (PFL). We have 740k yearly StarOptions which is well over the requirement of 559k to get to 5*. I have received many AWESOME suites and upgrades as platinum and 5* Elite and I HOPE that it continues for a long time.

I think that the previous poster was saying that Starwood can and has taken away many of the 5* Elite perks; this includes PFL and the whole Elite program. I do not think that you would be happy spending alot to acheive 5* and then having your most desirable perk (PFL) being taken away. The day after I became 5* Elite, Starwood took away my most desireable benefit which was automatic villa upgrades.

There is one other thing that I think that you should consider. Buy where you want to go! This is an often used term at TUG and I believe in it. Trading into other resorts can be time consuming, difficult, and can often lead to disappointment. We spent alot more than the minimum to get to 5* but we are guaranteed to travel where we want to go. Here is how we chose to do it:
WKORV- Ocean Front Deluxe- 2BRLO- Resale- $50k
WKV- Platinum 2BRLO- Resale- $21k
HRA- Platinum 2BRLO- Resale- $27k
WLR- Platinum 2BRLO- Developer- $38k
WPORV- EOY Odd- 2BRLO- Developer- $24k
WPORV- EOY Even- 2BRLO- Developer- $24k

I can split off my LOs and have 10 weeks per year at places that I want to travel. I paid $175k but I do not have to worry about trading (unless I want to) or being stuck in Orlando for 2-3 months per year. In addition to my TS stays, I also visit Starwood hotels about 10 times per year and get upgraded about 75% of the time while enjoying free food at the lounges and free spa access.

I am enjoying being 5*. Since they took away the automatic villa upgrades last May / June, I have been upgraded almost every visit by being placed in a larger villa, on a higher floor, better view, or better location.

I am also enjoying being Platinum for Life (while it lasts). I realize that Starwood can remove this benefit whenever they want to as they did with the automatic villa upgrade.

Good luck in your decisions.

 

[timeos2]

Paying extra, and not just a few hundred but thousands of dollars, with no value except for things that might be a value and can be taken away at the sellers whim makes no sense whatsoever to me.

 

[AwayWeGo]

You Take The Sizzle. I'll Take The Steak.

Paying extra, and not just a few hundred but thousands of dollars, with no value except for things that might be a value and can be taken away at the sellers whim makes no sense whatsoever to me.

Me neither.

If I'm paying for it, I want a deed for it.

Or at least an RTU lease.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Westin5Star]

Paying extra, and not just a few hundred but thousands of dollars, with no value except for things that might be a value and can be taken away at the sellers whim makes no sense whatsoever to me.

I probably paid $30-40k over market value buying the three from the developer that I did. I often spend that much or more for a single vacation. Hundreds and thousands of dollars just don't get me excited whether they be savings or spending. Millions do matter to me but not to Bill Gates. It is all relative so it might not make sense to you. My response was to the StarwoodCanadaFan who might be in a different financial position than you or I are; he might actually be Bill Gates???

 

[StarwoodCanadafan]

No Bill Gates here!

Thanks again,

I can't believe they would take away the lifetime Plat. It would cause a riot with Starwood owners. I won't believe Starwood would do that.. they are too reputable an organization. I do realize they removed the auto upgrade to larger unit at SVO, but, I expect that was due to logistics of being able to manage inventory, and last minute bookings etc.

Count me as a strong SVO supporter..