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Villas of Cave Creek Affilated with SVN

photosmike

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I own 3 units at VCC and I received this via e-mail today (3/31/9) from the HOA.

"

Dear Owner,

We have great news to share with you. As your Association Board of Directors, we want to ensure that you are provided with maximum flexibility and vacation options so that you can make the most of your ownership benefits.

Over the past several months, the Board has discussed the possibility of affiliating Villas of Cave Creek with Starwood Vacation NetworkSM program. We are pleased to inform you that we have completed this new affiliation, which gives you the opportunity to enjoy added benefits and flexibility beginning with the 2009 Use Year. Additionally, Starwood Vacation Network will allow you to take advantage of certain rewards and privileges that can be utilized year-round outside of your vacation.

The Starwood Vacation Exchange Company has advised us that an invitation to join Starwood Vacation Network will be mailed to all Owners within the next few weeks."

I expect this will involve some type of purchase from Starwood. Perhaps a conversion fee.

Has this happened with any of the other Starwood resorts not originally in SVN?

I can trade with II, Is there any additional benefit to joining SVN?

Any thoughts on this is appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike
 
Hi Mike - it has happened, and most recently it's happened after an expensive renovation and a large special assessment at Sheraton Vistana Resort. I'm not wishing bad things on you, but wait for the other shoe to drop.

The only real advantage is the ability to trade in the SVN, but how much that means to you will depend on how many Staroptions they assign your unit and if there are places you want to go in the SVN. You can do darn near the same thing using the SW priority in II.

Besides a possible special assessment, and a [possible] fee to join, your yearly MF will also go up [about] $100.

You will have to think long and hard about whether you really want to do it or not. Unless they give you a ton of Staroptions, I probably wouldn't.

Good luck! :hi:
 
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If I understand for other resorts offered entry into SVN - and the SVN entry fee ($599) was waived. You will need to pay the annual SVN fee that is a ~$109 per year for the 1st week, ~$34 for the second week and no charge for additional weeks (it is seperate from the MF - but billed w/ the MFs). The SVN fee also includes II.

It does come down to how many SOs are going to be assigned - relative to your MFs and desire to use SVN to exchange.

For a bit over $140 you will get the ability to exchange into SVN resorts. Overall, this is a good thing and a good deal if SVN exchanges appeal to you and you get adequate SOs for you weeks. This only is worthwhile if you plan to exchange via SVN since it will not transfer upon resale.

For us - being in SVN is only worthwhile for our WKV VOIs - since I would unlikely exchange our other resorts via SVN (exchange down except for HRA).

Not sure why special assessments come into this picture - I do not think they necessarily go hand-in-hand. WSJ got hit w/ a 50% increase in MFs (for 3 years) and we are already in SVN. So I would not consider this as part of the SVN entry.
 
David - I'm just guessing about a Special Assessment, but I wouldn't be surprised at all, because I believe that Villas of Cave Creek is an older resort that needs some upgrading to be SVN quality, and that's why it wasn't in the SVN before. I just have a hunch, that after this wonderful announcement about joining the SVN, the next announcement will be about the wonderful renovations. Just like what happened at SVR....only time will tell! ;)

Here is some evidence of the need for a face lift, from tripadvisor.com:

This property is listed as a 5 star property and we did not feel it measured up. While the unit was comfortable and met our needs we felt that the living room furniture was outdated and dowdy looking and the carpet needed to be cleaned or replaced. I tile was chipped in the kitchen - no big deal just something that added to our overall feeling that it needed some sprucing up. The front entry way looked like it needed a powerwash and the chairs and table on the front "stoop" were of the K-mart plastic variety.
 
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photosmike, ... A place called Vistana's Beach Club joined the Starwood Vacation Network last year. It is a recently remodeled resort on the Ocean in Jensen Beach, Florida. I don't know much about it.

I see your resort (VCC) only has 25 2-bedroom units, no lockoffs. However, the units seem pretty nice - 2 fireplaces, a loft with a sleeper sofa, front and back patios, washer and dryer. No idea whether the units were sold fixed or float.

What I think will happen is that each unit will be assigned a season and a StarOption value. The seasons probably will be Winter (something like weeks 50-52 and 1-20), late Spring and Fall and AZ Summer. Your resort (VCC) may already have allocated seasons that SVN will use. Better season = more StarOptions.

If you decide to join SVN you will be charged a yearly fee. That fee will allow you to use your own 3 units exactly as you have used them in the past - but allow you greater versatility.

In general, if you have a fixed unit, you will have that exact reservation held for you until 10 months from the date of arrival. If you don't call and confirm that you are using that exact unit and week by 10 months out, your fixed unit will then be put into the rental pool. You can still reserve a unit anytime in that season, but subject to availability when you call and you will not be guaranteed the exact week or the exact unit.

If you have a floating unit use at VCC, you can reserve any unit in your season at 12 months before arrival. You will be competing only with other VCC owners within your assigned season from 12 months from arrival to 8 months from arrival.

At 8 months out, anyone from the other SVN resorts can call and reserve any untaken units. This goes on until 4 months out when untaken units are usually released to II or Starwood for rental and anyone in the SVN can also reserve, always subject to availablity, for less than a full week by spending their StarOptions.

Of course, at 8 months out, subject to availability and the value of your StarOptions, you can call and reserve out-of-season at your resort (VCC) or any other resort in the SVN network. You will only be competing with other SVN members until 4 months out.

If you decide not to pay the yearly fee and join the SVN, you will be limited to reserving at your own resort (VCC) - or reserving in your season at your resort and then depositing the week in II. (If you stay out of the SVN, you can deposit your own week. If you join the SVN, Starwood chooses the week and resort to be deposited. Usually this works out OK, but it irks SVN members not to have the control.)

Also, others will join in if I have mis-stated anything. Undoubtedly, all this will be explained by your VCC HOA board. It seems overwhelming and strange at first. But, remember the "breaks" in ability to reserve at 12, 8 and 4 months. And, if you don't join the SVN, I think everything will function just as it has before - but you will not have the ability to go elsewhere during the 8-4 month preference period. ... eom
 
The pool looks tiny - is this the only pool?

01952_b1.jpg



Here is a VCC slideshow, from a Tugger's photos - I think it has some charm, but I predict that an upgrade is coming. (click slideshow on the website.)
 
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I own 3 units at VCC and I received this via e-mail today (3/31/9) from the HOA.

Leaving aside the special assessment issue (although, I agree with Denise it's quite possible there will be one), I think you'll do fine with SVN, as you have 3 units. They're all 2 bedrooms at VCC, aren't they? I can't imagine they would value them for less than 67,100 Staroptions each.

Glorian
 
We have 2 units at VCC and got the email today also.

I had bought the units specifically for the Starwood preference with II. Will be interesting to see what the letter will say.

I actually just called Owner services today to reserve my 2010 weeks. I was thinking about depositing 1 unit with RCI to see if it will pull of the Disney sightings but the RCI told me that I couldn't do it....that the resort needed to do the deposit for me. I was confused about this but maybe the letter today is the reason why?

Oh well... will wait for the news before I do any depositing.

Jen
 
David - I'm just guessing about a Special Assessment, but I wouldn't be surprised at all, because I believe that Villas of Cave Creek is an older resort that needs some upgrading to be SVN quality, and that's why it wasn't in the SVN before. I just have a hunch, that after this wonderful announcement about joining the SVN, the next announcement will be about the wonderful renovations. Just like what happened at SVR....only time will tell! ;)

Here is some evidence of the need for a face lift, from tripadvisor.com

I see your point - get fixed up (w/ special assessment) to get into SVN - but it sounds like VCC being let into SVN is a done deal regardless - so getting SVN may be worth joining if SVN works for you.

I would be more than happy to give up SVN for our units - even WKV since I can successfully rent - but it is what it is (and I went in knowingly for the most part).
 
The pool looks tiny - is this the only pool?

01952_b1.jpg



Here is a VCC slideshow, from a Tugger's photos - I think it has some charm, but I predict that an upgrade is coming. (click slideshow on the website.)

I used to own a week at Villas of Cave Creek. The two pools in the picture are the only ones on site...and they are both TINY. In fact, even if you put them together you wouldn't have a decent pool. The courtyard is pretty and the foliage has grown a lot since that picture was taken, but the pools are terrible.

To be fair, the Villas of Cave Creek have some charm in terms of architecture and decor. But there are also serious design flaws. The units have tiny kitchens and bathrooms...and the construction quality is also very cheap.

I really don't think this resort deserves a "5 star" or "premier" rating. It's a big step down from the Sheraton Desert Oasis...and it's an enormous step down from the Westin Kierland. I'm surprised that Starwood is going to accept VCC into SVN.

Steve
 
Thank you Steve - that is exactly why I predict a major renovation on the horizon.
 
I am so in agreement with you Denise and Steve. If I owned at VCC, I'd be looking at my MF newsletter right now to detertime how much is in the replacement reserves. The overall resort looks cozy and charming, but from the pictures, the interiors don't appear to be up to Starwood's standards. Maybe Starwood decided to try a different approach. Instead of the prize being free membership in SVN after paying the special assessment, they are going to try free membership in SVN first, then hit owners with the SA because of the great benefit of being in SVN.

Only time will tell.

-tim
 
Am I the only one who is saying right now "what is Starwood thinking???" I don't mean to be rude to VCC owners and kudos for the great news that you will have access to SVN for free, as it is a great benefit IMHO to be able to avoid II and use SOs to trade into HI and such.

HOWEVER, for the rest of the folks in SVN, this AGAIN dilutes the pool substantially. I can see all of the VCC owners trading OUT of VCC into better resorts but who is going to want to trade INTO VCC? I mean with Kierland and SDO right there as much nicer properties, VCC is a distant third option for an AZ vacation.

This is a bit similar to inviting all of SVR ang Beach Club to join (albeit they ARE trying to bring SVR up to par with the rest of the resorts in SVN). Everyone is going to be trading their SOs to go elsewhere while very few people will be actively seeking to go there. :shrug:

Yes, availability at high demand places like WKORV is good right now but that is short sighted. In 5 years when our economy improves, good luck booking ANYTHING good at the 8 month window!

Katherine
 
Thank you Steve - that is exactly why I predict a major renovation on the horizon.

I wonder if they already had some kind of renovation? There's this quote from a Redweek review of a Dec. 2008 stay:

"WOW - every villa interior was refurbished in 2008 including furniture, carpeting, appliances, draperies, mattresses, 32" LCD TV with satellite, Bose Wave stereos & wireless internet."

And, if you look at the photos on Expedia there appears to have been some updating from the photos that Denise posted earlier (look at the kitchen photo):

http://www.expedia.com/pub/agent.dll/qscr=cmhi/rdct=1/htid=916617/crti=0

Glorian
 
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First of all, congratulations on being invited into SVN.

With such a small property, it makes sense that renovations have already been completed and that's why the members were invited into SVN now. Personally, I think the place looks really darling though I'll admit that the pool is really small!

SDKath, as far as your comments go, I think it all depends on how many SOs they assign to the villas. SVR was invited into SVN but a 2 bdrm lockoff in platinum season is only assigned 95,700 SOs. Considering what they pay in MFs for those SOs, I don't think SVR owners are necessarily coming out ahead.

Similarly, I can't imagine that VCC will be assigned SOs in parity with SDO and WKV. If my gut is correct, then VCC will be a great alternative for some of the 2nd tier (and I mean 2nd tier in terms of how many SOs they are assigned, not how nice they are) properties within SVO, such as SBP, VCC, SVR and SPGA.

I actually wish SVO would buy more properties, renovate them to be beautiful both inside and out, and then invite them into SVN. The eastern half of the US would be preferable, thankyouverymuch. (Surely Marriott could be convinced to sell off one of their three dozen places in Hilton Head!! :) More alternatives is a good thing, IMO.

And as far as people competing for the same great properties, I guess having a guaranteed spot (or a great place to direct exchange with) is the one advantage owners at the in-demand resorts have and makes paying those painful MFs a little easier.
 
IMHO, as of three years ago, the resort needs a significant upgrade to get anywhere close to SVN standards.


The pool looks tiny - is this the only pool?

01952_b1.jpg
That was the pool when the resort opened many years ago. Yes it is tiny and now it has a ton of trees all around it. When we were there about 3 years ago, it was hard to find a sunny place to sit because of all the shade. Which isn't bad on a hot day ( and I'm sure there are lots of really hot days in the valley of the sun) but in Nov, we wanted a little sun.
 
I wonder if they already had some kind of renovation? There's this quote from a Redweek review of a Dec. 2008 stay:

"WOW - every villa interior was refurbished in 2008 including furniture, carpeting, appliances, draperies, mattresses, 32" LCD TV with satellite, Bose Wave stereos & wireless internet."

And, if you look at the photos on Expedia there appears to have been some updating from the photos that Denise posted earlier (look at the kitchen photo):

http://www.expedia.com/pub/agent.dll/qscr=cmhi/rdct=1/htid=916617/crti=0

Glorian

Glorian,

Your information is correct; all 25 units were extensively updated in 2008. Also, this was done without a Special Assessment. Anyone interested can view some photos taken today at

http://gallery.me.com/photosmike/100170

We like the updates a lot.

We purchased at VCC because we like the small town look and feel of Cave Creek. The swimming pools are small but, there are only 25 units and I have never seen the pools crowded. Also, they are clean.

I don't think we have an interest in converting to SVN as we use our units every year (1-52 Float).

Thanks to everyone who posted about SVN.
 
Thanks for the pics.

It looks like they used the same decorator as SVR. I wonder who the owner of that firm is related to in SVN and what OUTRAGEOUS rates we are paying them to do a dozen different cookie cutter designs!:wall:

Don't agree? Look at the different phases of SVR reno pictures and then Cave Creek and tell me what you think then? Also consider that the renos are costing US owners up to $95000/unit. (I could do a LOT more than appliances, paint and furniture for $95k in my house, and I am not doing x thousand units!)
 
I know some of you scoff at VCC because it's not fancy, but that's exactly why I like it - we like smaller resorts without tons of units (and consequently lots of people). Plus I love the town of Cave Creek, but don't care that much for the Phoenix/Scottsdale sprawl.

I have been tempted to buy a unit at VCC for a while to use - they have been going on e-bay for $1. So far I've resisted...partly because they're so easily available from II with an AC or as a Getaway during timeframes I'm interested in going there. This development (to join SVN) does not particularly interest me so I wouldn't pay more for the privilege (well, maybe $2 on e-bay). :D
 
SVN needs more inventory to sell, right? I wonder how many weeks are currently owned by them, or owners who have defaulted on their MFs.
 
I know some of you scoff at VCC because it's not fancy, but that's exactly why I like it - we like smaller resorts without tons of units (and consequently lots of people).

I am definitely not scoffing at it because it isn't fancy - the only "fancy" resort I own is WKORV, and maybe SVR, after the renovation. I also like smaller and quieter resorts.

However, I think the real question is whether or not it is SVN quality, since it is being offered in exchange for other SVN properties. Even with the upgraded interiors, I think it's questionable.
 
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I am shocked that Starwood is allowing this to happen, aren't they worried that we won't know how to use the weird black thing in the kitchen and burn the resort down?:D
 
Is that a hot tub I see in the photos? Does every unit at VCC have it's own private hot tub?

That's kinda cool!
 
I agree that you cannot assume "special assessment" this early because of SVN; however, the property does need an update. You are pretty much looking at the entire resort in that one pcture posted and the owner base is tiny so I am not sure how VCC is a value add to the SVN program or the bottom line for SVO. Even with a $399 or $599 fee to join, you are only looking at about $50-$75k on enrollment fees.

I believe that they are simply following through with what the goal was in the first place which was to wrap all properties managed/owned by Starwood into the SVN program and if I am not mistaken, this is the last property to be invited.

I am very interested in seeing what will be offered in terms of StarOptions for this resort which is all two-bedroom (not lock-off) and one season 1-52. My bet (any takers) is that the valuation will be at or close to the 51,700 category. If they are going to offer any more StarOptions than that, I would then be all but certain a special a$$e$$ment is comming. It is a small resort and does not offer much so without a doubt there is more likely going to be trading out and not trading in.
 
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