Vienna or Prague- WWYD?

[Ken555]

Right now we are planning: Munich- Vienna- Tura Luka- Bratislava- Salzburg or Munich

Hard to go wrong on your first trip. Glad you included Bratislava, I stayed there for four nights a couple of years ago and it was great (and close to Vienna, if you don't want to drive, you can go via river and it goes downtown to downtown).

Go to Prague another time. It's fabulous.

 

[Ken555]

I was in Prague last June. The historical area was unbelievably mobbed. So crowded you could barely walk. And hot.
Go to Ceskey Krumlov. A historical town close to Prague.

And the lesson is… don't go in June.

 

[Ken555]

Germans (and Austrians) keep the good riesling for themselves and export "Blue Nun" and similar.

Gruner Veltliner has notes of green beans (and other green vegetables). Hence, the "Gruner." I like it. But only as a once in awhile thing. Definitely ask for food pairing suggestions because this is a tricky one.

Ja, aber wie ist der Kaffee?

 

[andre10056]

And the plan is for the “whole gang” to stay at the same hotel in Tura Luka. The gang is a group of German, Polish, and Hungarian dachshund breeders who hunt below ground with their dogs. It will be fun to all stay together.

I am looking forward to this trip!

Apparently there is a good wine region outside of Vienna. The Wachau Valley known for Grüner Veltliner and Riesling wine. Hope to swing through there, maybe on the drive back from Bratislava.

Sounds like an amazing trip.

Question: How does one "hunt below ground with their dogs"? What does that mean?

 

[heathpack]

Sounds like an amazing trip.

Question: How does one "hunt below ground with their dogs"? What does that mean?

Dachshunds are a versatile hunting breed used in many ways for hunting. However, a unique niche of theirs which relates to their body shape is that they were developed to hunt denning animals such as fox and badger. These animals are agricultural pests. They are difficult to hunt because when threatened, they retreat to their dens. At that point, a den hunting specialist is needed. This is a dachshund or a true terrier (there are modern breeds called "terriers" whose body shape will not allow them to enter underground dens). These "earth dogs" or "go to ground" dogs pursue the quarry into its den, dispatch the quarry in the den, and then pull the quarry from the den. Sometimes, the quarry is driven from the den and dispatched by a hunter- this is more common with the less-confrontational fox that for the badger which defends its den ferociously. It is very a difficult, dangerous, and specialized form of hunting. Some dachshunds are also used to rescue other dogs that have entered an underground den and become trapped. It is most common that a terrier gets trapped and a dachshund performs the rescue. This is due to differences in working style- with terriers having a more aggressive/adrenalin based working style that sometimes results in them pushing into a very tight space and then when the adrenalin runs out, becoming exhausted and trapped. Dachshunds have a more olfaction based style. They explore the den using olfactory clues. This is one of my areas of research interest and I cannot say this definitively (but am trying to figure out with science)- it is scientifically plausible and also my belief- that the dachshund uses olfactory input to form an cognitive map of the underground den (which is often quite complex). So the dachshund working style uses olfaction and mapping initially saving the aggression for the moment of engagement with the quarry.

Its very interesting- my traveling companion for this trip- its her dachshunds that do most of the den rescues of other dogs in Europe. And mostly they rescue terriers. So yes terrier can do this work too but a good working dachshund is the best specialist for the den hunting job.

 

[andre10056]

P


Dachshunds are a versatile hunting breed used in many ways for hunting. However, a unique niche of theirs which relates to their body shape is that they were developed to hunt denning animals such as fox and badger. These animals are agricultural pests. They are difficult to hunt because when threatened, they retreat to their dens. At that point, a den hunting specialist is needed. This is a dachshund or a true terrier (there are modern breeds called "terriers" whose body shape will not allow them to enter underground dens). These "earth dogs" or "go to ground" dogs pursue the quarry into its den, dispatch the quarry in the den, and then pull the quarry from the den. Sometimes, the quarry is driven from the den and dispatched by a hunter- this is more common with the less-confrontational fox that for the badger which defends its den ferociously. It is very a difficult, dangerous, and specialized form of hunting. Some dachshunds are also used to rescue other dogs that have entered an underground den and become trapped. It is most common that a terrier gets trapped and a dachshund performs the rescue. This is due to differences in working style- with terriers having a more aggressive/adrenalin based working style that sometimes results in them pushing into a very tight space and then when the adrenalin runs out, becoming exhausted and trapped. Dachshunds have a more olfaction based style. They explore the den using olfactory clues. This is one of my areas of research interest and I cannot say this definitively (but am trying to figure out with science)- it is scientifically plausible and also my belief- that the dachshund uses olfactory input to form an cognitive map of the underground den (which is often quite complex). So the dachshund working style uses olfaction and mapping initially saving the aggression for the moment of engagement with the quarry.

Its very interesting- my traveling companion for this trip- its her dachshunds that do most of the den rescues of other dogs in Europe. And mostly they rescue terriers. So yes terrier can do this work too but a good working dachshund is the best specialist for the den hunting job.

Fascinating. Thank you.

 

[Krteczech]

On your way to Turá Lúka stop either in Brno or Olomouc. Both cities have long history and are not mobbed by tourists like Praha or Vienna. Bratislava, the capital of Slovakia is also nice town to visit. Driving from Munich to Prague you could stop in best known spa towns in western Bohemia like Mariánské Lázně or Karlovy Vary known for mineral waters treatments. Have a great trip!

 

[Carolinian]

I have been to both quire a few times, and love both. It is a hard choice.

You said you like classic music if performed in a fitting setting. In Vienna they have classic concerts in the Hofburg, the old imperial winter palace. I would also recommend touring both that and the old summer palace (Schonbrunn) on the outskirts of the city. St. Stephens Cathedral is also magnificent, and the Habsburg tombs near the Hofburg are interesting. Of the hotels I have stayed in while in Vienna, the one I liked best, whose name escapes me, is inside The Ring (the line of the old medieval walls) and near the famed pedestrianized shopping street Kartnerstrasse and is comprised of two large medieval houses that were purchased centuries ago by the Knights of Malta and made into one structure. The Knights still own the building and lease it to the group that runs the hotel. It has a great location, walkable to many sights, great champagne breakfast, and very atmospheric.

I would agree that a side trip to Cesky Krumlov is well worth it if you go to Prague. The first time I was there, it had not been overrun with tourists and it was interesting returning some years later when everything had been spruced up and it was more on the tourist trail. There are also a number of interesting castles fairly close to Prague that you can visit on a day trip, including one that was a residence of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, the Austrian heir to the throne whose assassination led to World War I.

 

[Laurie]

Since you've decided on Vienna, btw one of the fun things we did (and still talk about!) was the apple-strudel-making-and-tasting demo at Schonbrunn Palace.

For others thinking about Vienna, we were there for a whole week on exchange thru RCI into a lovely little studio/hotel, one subway stop from the Schonbrunn and easy to get around, maybe RCI still has it.

fyi - another thing Vienna brings to mind was the 2 ominous speeding tickets (in German, payable by bank draft only, hard to decipher) which were mailed to us many months after our stay, issued when leaving and returning to Vienna just outside the airport (we didn't have a car in Vienna but used one before and after). Long story, no help from the rental car company or the consolidator -- but if you're renting a vehicle there, our tickets were for exceeding their speed limit by about 1 mph, and I'm not sure speed limit signs were even posted, so be aware.

 

[Carolinian]

Since you've decided on Vienna, btw one of the fun things we did (and still talk about!) was the apple-strudel-making-and-tasting demo at Schonbrunn Palace.

For others thinking about Vienna, we were there for a whole week on exchange thru RCI into a lovely little studio/hotel, one subway stop from the Schonbrunn and easy to get around, maybe RCI still has it.

fyi - another thing Vienna brings to mind was the 2 ominous speeding tickets (in German, payable by bank draft only, hard to decipher) which were mailed to us many months after our stay, issued when leaving and returning to Vienna just outside the airport (we didn't have a car in Vienna but used one before and after). Long story, no help from the rental car company or the consolidator -- but if you're renting a vehicle there, our tickets were for exceeding their speed limit by about 1 mph, and I'm not sure speed limit signs were even posted, so be aware.

My wife and I did a timeshare exchange to Vienna years ago, and we exchanged into a similar type resort but at a clearly different location. It was her first visit there.

When I was working full time in eastern Europe as well as on later short term projects, I was allowed a stopover enroute, where my employer paid for one night hotel. Vienna was one of my favorite places to do that, followed by Istanbul. I only once found a routing that allowed me to do that in Prague.

 

[StaceyM]

Right now we are planning: Munich- Vienna- Tura Luka- Bratislava- Salzburg or Munich

My gut feeling is that (depending on what languages you speak) it might be better to do some of the smaller locations while you have a European driver who speaks German traveling with you.

I think you could get by in Vienna without speaking any language other than English and using all public transit (in fact, having a car would likely be very inconvenient). That makes it ideal to visit when you are on your own and using public transit / walking. The core city of Vienna is extremely walkable, less than a 30 minute walk to cross the entire city.

I would highly recommend spending more time in two locations, rather than trying to check off more locations by spending a day there. Every time you have to pack up, drive, find parking, and check back in to a different hotel, it pretty much takes up a whole day. You might get to see some countryside driving and find a cute restaurant for lunch, a nice dinner... but being able to see any "attractions" is limited. I base this on my experience when we drove from Budapest to Vienna, which was "only" a three hour drive, and several train rides in Europe where I thought, "Oh that will only take a couple of hours" and it ended up taking most of a day.

So I would say go to Tura Luka and Bratislava and explore Slovakia for a week, while you have a car and an almost-local with you. Or a trip to Prague and Czechia where you explore some outlying regions would also be nice.

Save Vienna and Salzburg for a later trip where you might not have those resources and don't have the hassle of parking a car you won't really need.

ETA: I just saw you will have many European languages in the group (a huge plus for exploring smaller places) and also that it's a large-ish group. Which makes my "Any day of travel will take up a full day" even more likely. Focus on fewer locations.

Also, there are great wines in Hungary - pick the Hungarians' brains about that. They have some really unique varietals that aren't exported at all.

 

[SusanRN]

I know I'm totally changing the vibe here, but if you have the opportunity, perhaps go to a concentration camp for a very moving experience. The university group I toured nearly all of Europe with in the summer of 1971 at age 19 went to all of those cities and more.
We spent several hours at Terezin concentration camp/ghetto, which is about 35 miles from Prague. I see that half-day and full-day tours are offered, or you can drive yourself.
https://prague.org/terezin-concentration-camp/ appears to be a government site promoting tourism for Prague
Of the 2 1/2 months we spent in Europe [from London to Greece to up to Sweden, including through "Yugoslavia," "Czechoslovakia," and East Germany] the two most moving experiences I had were walking under the arch at Terezin that said "Arbeit Macht Frie" and looking at the photographs at Checkpoint Charlie in West Berlin memorializing young East Germans who had died trying to get through the Berlin Wall, because getting to freedom was worth the risk.
This was the era of protests on campuses against the Vietnam War, but this emphasized to me that truly "freedom isn't free."

I'm crying now as I write this.

BTW, I paid for that trip myself by working two summers as a waitress at Howard Johnson's, and after giving my parents $750 each year toward my college expenses.
Also, I'm Scandinavian/English, not Jewish.

 

[Laurie]

There's a pretty interesting documentary on Amazon Prime called "Slovakia: Treasures in the Heart of Europe." It's about an hour long, I recommend. I remember choosing Slovenia over Slovakia for our road trip from Vienna to Budapest, either would have been equally wonderful.

We've been watching lots of short documentaries on Amazon prime lately, about countries and cultures all over the world (instead of picking out far-flung timeshares to book -- it's an age thing).