Value of the ownership

[family4]

My wife and I toured the Maui Bay and purchased a VIP package of 11k points. We plan to have a family trip to Maui in January and certainly don't have enough points. I explore the feasibility of becoming an owner but my wife hesitates since we are not very happy with our Westgate. Would you be able to share your thoughts of the questions:

1. Are you happy with the value of your ownership?
2. Am I able to rent from someone to get another unit in January?
3. Would an ownership acquired from resales function as well as purchasing directly from Hilton?

Thank you.

 

[ljmiii]

To answer your first question first...

HGVC is in general (and IMHO) the best of the major timeshare systems as long as you understand its limitations and are able to plan 9 to 12 months in advance. In particular, HGVC truly excels if you want to do one of the three following things...

1) Stay at one of HGVC's major destinations - O'ahu, the Big Island, Carlsbad (CA), Las Vegas, Myrtle Beach (SC), Orlando, and maybe NYC. There is almost always plenty of availability at 276 days (~9 months) and you can just buy the least expensive deed anywhere in the system (taking into account both initial price and MFs).

2) Stay at any HGVC resort for a week at a time (usually Saturday to Saturday) in a particular unit size and season. Because most people don't book Home Week reservations there is almost always availability at 12 months (except perhaps for the very highest of demand weeks - e.g. President's Week at a Ski Resort). For this you buy a deed for the unit, season, and resort at which you want to stay.

3) Stay in NYC or DC. Because the "by Hilton Club" (aka bHC) resorts in these locations have "Home Resort Priority" windows in addition to the "Home Week Priority" window there is a long period of time (typically 90 to 276 days in advance) during which resort owners and no one else can book short stays. In addition, only owners can make "Open Season" reservations (cash stays) and there is usually an owners lounge. You would need to buy at the resort though not necessarily the unit and season at which you want to stay.

 

[elaine]

Agree with above. Very happy HGVC owners who stay one week most years in our SW FL HGVC and trade within the HGVC system (not the new HGV/MAX) on years we don't use home resort. HGVC is great for Oahu and BI, Hawaii. Don't know about Maui, as it's still fairly new.
Resale weeks book the same as direct purchase within the HGVC system. Mantra is buy where you want to stay if it's high demand/low supply (such as Marco Island, for us). Otherwise, get the best deal on HGVC points.

 

[ljmiii]

To answer your other questions...

In HGVC you can only rent out Home Week reservations, not Club Reservations made using points. So in HGVC there isn't anywhere near the vibrant market for owner rented timeshares that there is in other systems (e.g. MVC or DVC).

And yes, HGVC deeds purchased retail are treated the same as those purchased directly from HGV except that they don't count toward your ownership status (with the exception of some 'resale' deeds purchased from affiliate locations...though to my knowledge the only resort for which this is still true is in Scotland).

All that said...Maui Bay Villas is something of a unique case because the resort is still under construction. So it is still expensive to buy there (even resale), it is difficult to get Club reservations because the demand is high, and there are comparatively few rentals available.

 

[family4]

Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge. It has been very helpful!

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Gulf and Valdoro affiliates still count toward legacy elite.

 

[RX8]

You may know this already but Maui isn’t an option with VIP. You only have a select number of resorts to choose from. For best results, reserve nine months out. VIP is a good way to “kick the tires” but availability is limited. While you have the use of 11,520 points, good for a two bedroom, there is no guarantee of that. You may end up in a one bedroom gold season using less than 1/2 of those points and you get no credit for unused points.

My advice is buy resale. You will have a required presentation as part of the VIP. HGV will pull on your emotions, play with numbers, dazzle you with the so called Max experience, throw out some one time bonus points, and try to convince you that all your travel needs will be met with what they are attempting to sell you. In reality, to keep the selling price $20,000 or less they will offer you an every other year with too few points (likely from a trust from the old Diamond Resorts collection that has significantly higher maintenance fees than HGVC deeds), The sad part is that what they will sell you will be worth nothing on the resale market after you purchase. In fact, after you pay it in full completely, HGV wouldn’t even accept it back for free.

What should you buy resale? You can take your time, read threads on TUG and ask questions to get the answers. Many will have opinions based on years of experience. Many will likely tell you to focus on an HGVC deed, maybe 11,200 points, and maybe the lowest maintenance fees of a Las Vegas resort. That seems to be a good sweet spot. In addition, it will be much cheaper cost, both in upfront and ongoing maintenance fees, than the worthless offering from HGV. You won’t get Max with resale but Max seems to be more fluff than an actual tangible benefit worthy of the thousands of dollars they charge. You might ask yourself why HGV doesn’t offer the sweet spot of ownership. The main reason is that their asking price would be $75,000 or more. By selling low points, “low cost” weeks, they can continually try to upgrade owners for multiple future sales.

 

[family4]

You may know this already but Maui isn’t an option with VIP. You only have a select number of resorts to choose from. For best results, reserve nine months out. VIP is a good way to “kick the tires” but availability is limited. While you have the use of 11,520 points, good for a two bedroom, there is no guarantee of that. You may end up in a one bedroom gold season using less than 1/2 of those points and you get no credit for unused points.

My advice is buy resale. You will have a required presentation as part of the VIP. HGV will pull on your emotions, play with numbers, dazzle you with the so called Max experience, throw out some one time bonus points, and try to convince you that all your travel needs will be met with what they are attempting to sell you. In reality, to keep the selling price $20,000 or less they will offer you an every other year with too few points (likely from a trust from the old Diamond Resorts collection that has significantly higher maintenance fees than HGVC deeds), The sad part is that what they will sell you will be worth nothing on the resale market after you purchase. In fact, after you pay it in full completely, HGV wouldn’t even accept it back for free.

What should you buy resale? You can take your time, read threads on TUG and ask questions to get the answers. Many will have opinions based on years of experience. Many will likely tell you to focus on an HGVC deed, maybe 11,200 points, and maybe the lowest maintenance fees of a Las Vegas resort. That seems to be a good sweet spot. In addition, it will be much cheaper cost, both in upfront and ongoing maintenance fees, than the worthless offering from HGV. You won’t get Max with resale but Max seems to be more fluff than an actual tangible benefit worthy of the thousands of dollars they charge. You might ask yourself why HGV doesn’t offer the sweet spot of ownership. The main reason is that their asking price would be $75,000 or more.

Thanks for the advice. Maui is included in my VIP package since we went to the presentation there. It was hand written in the contract. We called and were able to find availability at Maui Bay with the VIP. However, it doesn't have enough points since we'd need a 2-br and a 3-br units for the trip. We are not able to purchase additional points with the VIP package. That's why I'm considering buying resales.

 

[brp]

Thanks for the advice. Maui is included in my VIP package since we went to the presentation there. It was hand written in the contract. We called and were able to find availability at Maui Bay with the VIP. However, it doesn't have enough points since we'd need a 2-br and a 3-br units for the trip. We are not able to purchase additional points with the VIP package. That's why I'm considering buying resales.

Buying resale (vs. direct) is definitely the way to go. Among the things to consider is that the fact that you will have these points every year and be paying maintenance fees on them. Unless you're going to take one or more trips a year to a location with HGVC resorts, it may not make sense. Also, deciding where to buy and when you can book is important. For example, we are inside 276 days, so anyone can book Maui (subject to availability) in January even with lower-cost points. So, your ability to book early (9 months out) makes a difference.

Cheers.

 

[GT75]

We are not able to purchase additional points with the VIP package. That's why I'm considering buying resales.

They don't combine. It will be two different inventories. You could make a separate booking in each.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

My wife and I toured the Maui Bay and purchased a VIP package of 11k points.

Where were you staying on Maui when you did that?
1. Yes. If I had bought MBV I might not be. If I had bought MBV from HGV I definitely would not be.
2. there are definitely MBV units for rent for Jan on Redweek already ... https://www.redweek.com/resort/P6661-maui-bay-villas-by-hilton-grand/timeshare-rentals
3. Resales, as far as I have seen, function fine unless you want Max, which is not much worth having. I guess they don't count if you want to end up owning enough points to get higher-level status. But if you're already having internal debate about buying a single deed, that doesn't seem to be your trajectory

4. Are you thinking you can bundle the bonus pts and the purchased pts together to get the weeks for Jan? I am sure I have read that you cannot do that. I've never done a VIP, never had bonus pts, and HIGHLY skeptical of the ultimate value of bonus pts, so I can't say for sure, but do not expect to do that.
Even if you could do that, do the calendar math. By the time you buy a deed and get it recorded by HGVC and the points are in your account, there will be no availability at MBV. You'd end up renting anyway.

If you for some reason are set on MBV and you CAN use 100% of your bonus points to get a week at MBV, definitely do that. THen rent the other unit off Redweek, or even rent something else nearby. Then you have 2 resorts the family can try out during the week.

 

[kanerf]

Well I use my VIP membership for work. I have a little of 23K points that I use to make reservations, usually Mon-Thur at my home resort of The District in Washington DC. I usually mange to get about 6 or 7 reservations depending on the time of year. I work downtown, so this is very convenient for me. When I retire in a few years, I will transition my stays to some of their other properties.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

to keep the selling price $20,000 or less they will offer you an every other year with too few points ... ask yourself why HGV doesn’t offer the sweet spot of ownership. The main reason is that their asking price would be $75,000 or more. By selling low points, “low cost” weeks, they can continually try to upgrade owners for multiple future sales.

Bullseye. I'll never forget the only HGVC presentation I went to. I turned down their $40,000 offer. I told them "Sure I can afford it but the #s just don't make sense." So, the saleswoman left, her boss came in and offered me a worse deed that was only EOY and cost $20,000. I was stunned. All I could say was "But but but that is WORSE." All the rest of the day it often popped into my head "Where did they get the idea I could only afford $20,000? Do I mumble badly?"
RX8 lays it out perfectly

 

[family4]

Where were you staying on Maui when you did that?
1. Yes. If I had bought MBV I might not be. If I had bought MBV from HGV I definitely would not be.
2. there are definitely MBV units for rent for Jan on Redweek already ... https://www.redweek.com/resort/P6661-maui-bay-villas-by-hilton-grand/timeshare-rentals
3. Resales, as far as I have seen, function fine unless you want Max, which is not much worth having. I guess they don't count if you want to end up owning enough points to get higher-level status. But if you're already having internal debate about buying a single deed, that doesn't seem to be your trajectory

4. Are you thinking you can bundle the bonus pts and the purchased pts together to get the weeks for Jan? I am sure I have read that you cannot do that. I've never done a VIP, never had bonus pts, and HIGHLY skeptical of the ultimate value of bonus pts, so I can't say for sure, but do not expect to do that.
Even if you could do that, do the calendar math. By the time you buy a deed and get it recorded by HGVC and the points are in your account, there will be no availability at MBV. You'd end up renting anyway.

If you for some reason are set on MBV and you CAN use 100% of your bonus points to get a week at MBV, definitely do that. THen rent the other unit off Redweek, or even rent something else nearby. Then you have 2 resorts the family can try out during the week.

Thank you

 

[DazedandConfused]

Maui will get much easier to book in the next 12-36 months as the resort gets built out and there are more rooms to book

 

[family4]

Agree with above. Very happy HGVC owners who stay one week most years in our SW FL HGVC and trade within the HGVC system (not the new HGV/MAX) on years we don't use home resort. HGVC is great for Oahu and BI, Hawaii. Don't know about Maui, as it's still fairly new.
Resale weeks book the same as direct purchase within the HGVC system. Mantra is buy where you want to stay if it's high demand/low supply (such as Marco Island, for us). Otherwise, get the best deal on HGVC points.

We just returned from Maui, staying at the Maui Bay Villa with our VIP points. When you trade within HGVC system without MAX, are you able to see Open Season availability?

 

[ForeverJetsetting]

We just returned from Maui, staying at the Maui Bay Villa with our VIP points. When you trade within HGVC system without MAX, are you able to see Open Season availability?

Yes, you can see club season and open season for HGVC properties w/o having Max. With Max, you will be able to book the DRI (Diamond Resorts) as well, however, unless you have high enough status your booking window is only 6 mos out.

 

[GT75]

unless you have high enough status your booking window is only 6 mos out.

With status, you are still only 6 months out.

 

[ForeverJetsetting]

With status, you are still only 6 months out.

I thought Premier+ and Centium got 12 mos. Probably another one of those sales bs lines.. which is annoying since the sales person knew I rescinded the previous year because the last guy lied.

 

[tourproto]

So I bought resale (11,200 points for $4500, and for 2024 $1559 MFs) at a place I will probably never stay at (Las Vegas Flamingo). We stay either at the Trump or Elara when we go to LV. We go whenever there is a "sale" going on. That is what drives our planning. We are going to Trump in late April, and staying in a 1 bedroom plus (1BP) for 4 days/3 nights for 2960 points. To stay in an equivalent room at Elara 1BX (now, not on sale) it would be 10,080 points, pretty much my entire year's worth of points for only 3 nights.

Last year I brought my family out for a big bday party. I booked 7 studios for 3 nights each for 1146 points (per unit), and we stayed in a 1 bedroom grand plus for 6 nights for 5940 points. In general we get a night for between 350-1000 points depending on how fancy a room we want. I can get between 30 nights/year if we stay in studios (like a basic hotel room) or 10 nights/year if we stay in a 1000sq ft, 1 bedroom with a full kitchen room. It is very flexible, especially if you can book when they have sales.

For going to someplace like Hawaii you probably need to plan better, but for my and my wife to visit her retired brother and his wife, we can plan for short notice trips. So HGVC works great for us in Las Vegas (we live in Oregon with plenty of direct flights to Las Vegas). There is just so much capacity, that there is always availability, even during a sale. And obviously we don't go during peak times like Formula 1 in November or New Years

So to answer your questions

1. Are you happy with the value of your ownership? We love HGVC, and we aren't even Hilton people. I am a Sheraton/Westin and now Marriott person with lifetime Titanium Elite status and 2 Vistana Timeshares at Kierland.
2. Am I able to rent from someone to get another unit in January? As others have said, HGVC makes it less than easy to rent out your timeshare, hence I don't buy more HGVC even though we love it very much. I want to have an "outlet" (i.e. renting) option available, and HGVC doesn't make it work for me.
3. Would an ownership acquired from resales function as well as purchasing directly from Hilton? As far as I can tell, I can do anything a full-price purchaser can do. I have full visibility on the HGVC bookings app (iphone or desktop). I even get asked to go to members previews every time I stay at a property (Unless they offer at least 50,000 HHonors points, I don't even bother). However, I never book at the 12 month window, or even the 8 month window. I usually book 5 months or less (usually less), and only use my points in Las Vegas. I have owned for 2 years now, and I have NEVER not been able to book at Trump or Elara.

 

[GT75]

I thought Premier+ and Centium got 12 mos.

It doesn't on the HGVC side (below is from HgvMax benefits for HGVC side or Centum+/Premier+). I think that it does on the HVC/DRI side. I don't have access to HgvMax benefits on HVC/DRI side.

 

[ForeverJetsetting]

It doesn't on the HGVC side (below is from HgvMax benefits for HGVC side or Centum+/Premier+). I think that it does on the HVC/DRI side. I don't have access to HgvMax benefits on HVC/DRI side.

View attachment 105523

Sales people, I tell ya.... Even after I told him I rescinded my last "upgrade" because of a lie.

Just checked HGV/DRI forum and their window goes from 13 mos to 6 mos by going to Max. How is that an "upgrade" program.

 

[brp]

Sales people, I tell ya.... Even after I told him I rescinded my last "upgrade" because of a lie.

Just checked HGV/DRI forum and their window goes from 13 mos to 6 mos by going to Max. How is that an "upgrade" program.

I thought that they still get the 13 months on the DRI side, and just add the 6 months on the HGVC side. Are you sure that their internal window shrinks?

I know that people here on the HGVC side who are MAX still have the 276-day window on the HGVC side. They just add the 6 months on the DRI side.

Cheers.

 

[ForeverJetsetting]

I thought that they still get the 13 months on the DRI side, and just add the 6 months on the HGVC side. Are you sure that their internal window shrinks?

I just kept seeing 6 mos booking, but they didn't elaborate. If HGVC doesn't shrink, I would hope theirs doesn't either.

@family4 I wouldn't worry about Max. You may get complimentary bookings, but with the buy in price it would take a long time to hit the break even point. The cheapest they offered me was $13k for 3500 points EOY (not even considering MF).