• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 29 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered!
  • TUG started 29 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Check out our happy birthday post here: Happy Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Come check it out for a chance to win a Free TUG membership (or renewal) just for helping out!

    Read more here
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $20,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $20 Million dollars
  • Our 2022 Timeshare Survey is now complete and the full results as well as our expert and witty analysis of each question is available here: Here We hope you enjoy reading the results as much as we did!
  • Follow the TUG Member Banner as it travels the world on vacation with Timeshare owners! Also sign up to get the banner sent to you so you can submit a photo of your vacation with the banner to share with TUG! Banner Thread
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free! 50,000+ subscribers! Latest resort reviews and the most important topics discussed by owners during the week!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    Read more Here
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

USPS fail

Brett

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
8,724
Reaction score
4,509
Points
598
Location
Coastal Virginia
But almost all business documents are created electronically, so no need to scan, etc. -- just directly send it. Boom! Much faster. Honestly, I hadn't seen the business I recently retired from use a fax in 20 years.

Kurt

I also don't believe many businesses still use fax machines but admittedly I've been out of the business world for a while
I settled a real estate transaction online in 2021 using only DocuSign
 

Patri

Tug Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
6,246
Reaction score
3,076
Points
648
People come into the library yet to fax, as required by their insurance company or another business.
 

ScoopKona

Guest
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
4,211
Reaction score
2,008
Points
398
Location
Monkey King Coffee - Captain Cook, Hawaii
I also don't believe many businesses still use fax machines

Every medical practice. Their fax machine is also the usual venue hackers use to break in and steal patient records. None of those machines use encrypted anything and are typically (and foolishly) wired into the office network.
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
42,306
Reaction score
14,620
Points
1,299
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott's Grande Vista
Marriott's Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
I recently completed a real estate transaction using DocuSign. Difficult to imagine anything "faster" than that. Certainly not my grandmother's dusty fax machine.

But almost all business documents are created electronically, so no need to scan, etc. -- just directly send it. Boom! Much faster. Honestly, I hadn't seen the business I recently retired from use a fax in 20 years.

Kurt
The use of fax has decreased significantly, but there is a lot more paperwork that moves around behind the scenes that what you may or may not sign during your real estate transaction. It would be fairly uncommon for the borrower to have a need to fax something in, but again there are business to business transfers of documents that still happens through fax. Not as much as 20 years ago, but fax still has to be supported for those few that do. There may or may not be a physical fax machine on the either end, as many documents received through fax are managed through software and automation.
 
Last edited:

Tia

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,128
Reaction score
349
Points
468
People come into the library yet to fax, as required by their insurance company or another business.
? I looked and saw they offer fax but documents have to be in pdf or online. Does the library offer regular paper document fax ?
 

Patri

Tug Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
6,246
Reaction score
3,076
Points
648
Yes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tia

EJC

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
436
Reaction score
57
Points
388
Location
Eastern Washington
Resorts Owned
Worldmark, Vacation Internationale, Villa del Palmar, Dikhololo
Not everyone has a printer or scanner in their home anymore. Fax is still widely used in many businesses, even real estate transactions.
If you have an iPhone, one of the options in the NOTES app is scan a document. Works great. I don't know about Androids, though.
 

Talent312

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
16,650
Reaction score
6,348
Points
948
Resorts Owned
HGVC & GTS
A friend recently offered me some of his birthday cake.
I asked him to fax it to me, but he declined. Too messy.
.
 

geist1223

TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2015
Messages
5,263
Reaction score
4,938
Points
399
Location
Salem Oregon
Resorts Owned
Worldmark 89,000
Seaside Oregon Residence Club
DRI Cabo Azul 50,500
Royal Solaris San Jose del Cabo

ScoopKona

Guest
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
4,211
Reaction score
2,008
Points
398
Location
Monkey King Coffee - Captain Cook, Hawaii
Anyone who hates the USPS has never been to a country with a truly bad postal service. The USPS is the best of the best. No country enjoys a postal service as good as the USPS.

When diamond merchants move $10 million gems across the country, they use USPS registered mail.

I can mail a vinyl record from Hawaii to Puerto Rico for $4.05. And the chances it will arrive on time and in perfect condition are so close to 100%, they may as well be 100%

I've lived places where I had to watch clerks hand-cancel the stamp -- otherwise they would peel it off and resell it. Even in Europe, there are postal services that look at packages as "free stuff roulette."

We pay MUCH less and get far better service across more time zones and remote areas than anywhere else. Why? Veterans. The USPS employs veterans. Mission critical is a way of life.

I have no use for people who [defecate] on the USPS.
 

BJRSanDiego

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2012
Messages
3,082
Reaction score
1,532
Points
398
Location
San Diego
Resorts Owned
Sands of Kahana, Desert Springs I, DSV2, Shadow Ridge Enclaves Dlx
Every medical practice. Their fax machine is also the usual venue hackers use to break in and steal patient records. None of those machines use encrypted anything and are typically (and foolishly) wired into the office network.
The old (unattended receive) fax machines were phone-to-paper devices that were "air-gapped". Even today most use POTs dedicated fax lines. I suppose that some are connected to the office network through VOiP. But so are all the phones with voice mail.

I am unaware of fax machines that take a received graphic image, automatically convert it via OCR and then transmit it over the office network. Maybe they exist, but I'm a bit skeptical.

Can you help me fill in the possible gaps in my knowledge with specifics such as enabling hardware or software that could be a risk.

Fax is an old technology. No question there. But I have used it in the recent past to send stuff to my lawyer, close on a timeshare or two, etc. I prefer to use DocuScan, or print/scan/send or send graphic files.
 

Brett

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
8,724
Reaction score
4,509
Points
598
Location
Coastal Virginia
Anyone who hates the USPS has never been to a country with a truly bad postal service. The USPS is the best of the best. No country enjoys a postal service as good as the USPS.

When diamond merchants move $10 million gems across the country, they use USPS registered mail.

I can mail a vinyl record from Hawaii to Puerto Rico for $4.05. And the chances it will arrive on time and in perfect condition are so close to 100%, they may as well be 100%

I've lived places where I had to watch clerks hand-cancel the stamp -- otherwise they would peel it off and resell it. Even in Europe, there are postal services that look at packages as "free stuff roulette."

We pay MUCH less and get far better service across more time zones and remote areas than anywhere else. Why? Veterans. The USPS employs veterans. Mission critical is a way of life.

I have no use for people who [defecate] on the USPS.

I don't hate or "defecate" on the USPS.
I use the USPS infrequently and recognize that it's partially funded by the US government
 

ScoopKona

Guest
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
4,211
Reaction score
2,008
Points
398
Location
Monkey King Coffee - Captain Cook, Hawaii
The old (unattended receive) fax machines were phone-to-paper devices that were "air-gapped". Even today most use POTs dedicated fax lines. I suppose that some are connected to the office network through VOiP. But so are all the phones with voice mail.

I am unaware of fax machines that take a received graphic image, automatically convert it via OCR and then transmit it over the office network. Maybe they exist, but I'm a bit skeptical.

Can you help me fill in the possible gaps in my knowledge with specifics such as enabling hardware or software that could be a risk.

Fax is an old technology. No question there. But I have used it in the recent past to send stuff to my lawyer, close on a timeshare or two, etc. I prefer to use DocuScan, or print/scan/send or send graphic files.

There are loads of all-in-one machines which are connected to the same network which has patient records. These aren't the fax machines of the 1980s. Doctors offices install the fax/printer/copier and then forget about it -- never updating software or plugging security leaks. It is very often the back door into the office network, thus patient records, thus "keys to the financial kingdom" information. Which is why it's such a popular hack.
 

ScoopKona

Guest
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
4,211
Reaction score
2,008
Points
398
Location
Monkey King Coffee - Captain Cook, Hawaii
I use the USPS infrequently and recognize that it's partially funded by the US government

1) The USPS is a lifeline for people who live in remote/rural areas.
2) What part is funded with tax dollars? They've been claiming for decades they are self-funding.
 

isisdave

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
2,653
Reaction score
1,170
Points
548
Location
Evansville IN
Resorts Owned
Marriott Waiohai
I am referring to business to business communications. Fax is faster than scanning, saving and emailing. Your purchase contract likely got to the loan officer via fax.
Even ten years ago, there were business copier/scanner/fax machines into which you could enter a fax number or an email address as the destination. I think only the tiniest businesses use print-scan-save-email any more.
 

MrockStar

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2014
Messages
4,877
Reaction score
2,590
Points
348
Location
Detroit MI
Anyone who hates the USPS has never been to a country with a truly bad postal service. The USPS is the best of the best. No country enjoys a postal service as good as the USPS.

When diamond merchants move $10 million gems across the country, they use USPS registered mail.

I can mail a vinyl record from Hawaii to Puerto Rico for $4.05. And the chances it will arrive on time and in perfect condition are so close to 100%, they may as well be 100%

I've lived places where I had to watch clerks hand-cancel the stamp -- otherwise they would peel it off and resell it. Even in Europe, there are postal services that look at packages as "free stuff roulette."

We pay MUCH less and get far better service across more time zones and remote areas than anywhere else. Why? Veterans. The USPS employs veterans. Mission critical is a way of life.

I have no use for people who [defecate] on the USPS.
Thank you ScoopKona for that most accurate description of the USPS. We deliver for you.
 

1Kflyerguy

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
2,989
Reaction score
1,206
Points
399
Location
San Jose, Ca
Resorts Owned
HGVC Kings Land, Elara, and Marriott Destination Club Points
My experiences with the USPS have mostly been positive, at least where I live they have been very reliable. FedEx is usually the least reliable, i can't tell you the number times my shipments show as "out for delivery" only to be rescheduled to the next day, sometimes multiple days in a row...
 

Brett

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
8,724
Reaction score
4,509
Points
598
Location
Coastal Virginia

ScoopKona

Guest
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
4,211
Reaction score
2,008
Points
398
Location
Monkey King Coffee - Captain Cook, Hawaii

Congress passes $50 Billion U.S. Postal Service relief bill​

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us...illion-postal-service-relief-bill-2022-03-08/


"The rise of the Internet and a requirement to set aside funds for future retiree health benefits led to chronic losses at USPS"

This one slipped by me.

You realize they have to set aside 75 years of retirement funds per employee, as they are hired? That's insane. No company does that -- anywhere.

So, fine, a bail-out -- in order to fix a problem that was handed to them without any discussion. If FedEx or UPS had to fund 75 years of pensions, what do you think it would cost to mail a small package from Guam to Puerto Rico?
 

Brett

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
8,724
Reaction score
4,509
Points
598
Location
Coastal Virginia
This one slipped by me.

You realize they have to set aside 75 years of retirement funds per employee, as they are hired? That's insane. No company does that -- anywhere.

So, fine, a bail-out -- in order to fix a problem that was handed to them without any discussion. If FedEx or UPS had to fund 75 years of pensions, what do you think it would cost to mail a small package from Guam to Puerto Rico?

I believe USPS financial problems are more than "retiree funding" but admittedly the financing of this quasi-government agency is complicated
Enjoy your low-cost USPS services --- others continue to throw out their physical junk mail ;)
 
Top