Use Year Realignment

[Floridaman76]

Let us try an example. Say you own a 105k January Use Year and you purchase a 105k April Use Year that transfers to you sometime in April, 2025 (roughly the timing for the transfer of that Bali Hai contract). In 2025, you would pay 12 months of dues for the 105k January Use Year plus 8 months (May-Dec) dues for the 105k April Use Year that is now aligned with your January Use Year. On January 1, 2026 you will receive 210k points to use, but paid only 12 months + 8 months of dues (20 months, not 24 months) on the total 210k points. You came out 4 months ahead. In 2026 you pay 12 months of dues on 210k points and receive the 210k points on January 1, 2027, etc. every year after that.

So let me throw a hypthetical example out there, based on yours and PaxSarah's input.

I have an October UY, and I buy a July UY contract in December 2024, and let's say it finishes transferring in May or June of 2025. In theory, since it's outside of the "6 months" where they supposedly wont transfer points, in theory, assuming they re-align the July UY contract to October with all my other contracts, I will not get any 2025 points (since 2025 points would be defined as 7/1/2024 to 6/30/2025) but would get the full allotment of that contract on 10/1/2025, which is considered 2026 points. Along with the rest of my full contracts.
I would be in essence be paying for ~3 months of MF on points which I cannot use in my current use year (without borrowing them from 2026 UY), but I would get them all on October 1, or as soon as the contract transfers, I could use them for "next use year" bookings, just not anything for the current use year without borrowing.

I still think the best thing to do would be to buy a contract with the same use year, but this helps me understand this a little better.

 

[Floridaman76]

Also, holy cow, somebody got a pretty good deal on that Bali Hai, regardless of whether or not the current UY points will transfer.

I got outbid on a South Shore contract a couple weeks ago and a Canterbury contract in September that were both steals.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Also, holy cow, somebody got a pretty good deal on that Bali Hai, regardless of whether or not the current UY points will transfer.

I got outbid on a South Shore contract a couple weeks ago and a Canterbury contract in September that were both steals.

All Wyndham contracts on eBay are cheap now, even Canterbury, South Shore, and Bali Hai. Pretty much everything is selling at or less than closing costs. It’s concerning tbh.

 

[Floridaman76]

All Wyndham contracts on eBay are cheap now, even Canterbury, South Shore, and Bali Hai. Pretty much everything is selling at or less than closing costs. It’s concerning tbh.

My last resale I bought a few years ago, during the pandemic and I paid more in fees (closing cost/transfer) than I did for the actual contract. It was a ~300k National Harbor contract. I was all in for right at 1 grand. I also got all the points in the exisitng use year. I took a couple extra vacations in a hurry to burn them because I hate dealing with RCI.
My parents are getting older and I want to send them on some vacations before they are unable to travel, so i've been looking for a little more points in the short term.

My thought process is, if I can get a south shore or Canterbury (or something else with lower MF than National Harbor), I will eventually just dump one of my resale National Harbor contracts I have and keep the lower MF contracts. The resale NH I have, have more than paid for themselves and I know I can at least give them away with someone paying transfer fees. I don't care about making money off of it.

I guess i've been lucky to date that I have been able to match my existing use year, so I have not had to deal with any of the drama with UY realignment.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

My thought process is, if I can get a south shore or Canterbury (or something else with lower MF than National Harbor), I will eventually just dump one of my resale National Harbor contracts I have and keep the lower MF contracts. The resale NH I have, have more than paid for themselves and I know I can at least give them away with someone paying transfer fees. I don't care about making money off of it.

That keeps being my thought process as I add more and more (I have two relatively high mf Bonnet Creek Contracts) but I never end up dumping anything because no matter how much I add, I never seem to have enough points...

 

[CO skier]

So let me throw a hypthetical example out there, based on yours and PaxSarah's input.

I have an October UY, and I buy a July UY contract in December 2024, and let's say it finishes transferring in May or June of 2025. In theory, since it's outside of the "6 months" where they supposedly wont transfer points, in theory, assuming they re-align the July UY contract to October with all my other contracts, I will not get any 2025 points (since 2025 points would be defined as 7/1/2024 to 6/30/2025) but would get the full allotment of that contract on 10/1/2025, which is considered 2026 points. Along with the rest of my full contracts.
I would be in essence be paying for ~3 months of MF on points which I cannot use in my current use year (without borrowing them from 2026 UY), but I would get them all on October 1, or as soon as the contract transfers, I could use them for "next use year" bookings, just not anything for the current use year without borrowing.

I still think the best thing to do would be to buy a contract with the same use year, but this helps me understand this a little better.

I think people get too hung-up on which Use Year is going where and do not even consider the actual outcome. Using the 105k examples and working through the same process as in post #21: Beginning October 1, 2024 you would pay the 12 months for 105k points awarded October 1, 2025 plus 3 months for the 105k that transferred in June, 2025 and aligned with your October Use Year. On October 1, 2025 you receive 210k points for which you paid for only 126k in maintenance fees. October 1, 2025 to September 30, 2026 you pay 12 months of mf for the 210k you receive October 1, 2026, etc. every year after that.

You and others can think they were somehow cheated out of points "in essence be paying for ~3 months of MF on points which I cannot use in my current use year", but your checkbook could tell you a much better story. All the points are still there; what changes are the date they are awarded and the Use Year during which they are valid.

 

[Floridaman76]

You and others can think they were somehow cheated out of points "in essence be paying for ~3 months of MF on points which I cannot use in my current use year", but your checkbook could tell you a much better story. All the points are still there; what changes are the date they are awarded and the Use Year during which they are valid.

I think the stigma is, at least for me is, paying MF for points that cannot be used immediately. In some cases, months. I think I read on here someone say they had a weird use year realignment issue where they ended up paying 14 months in MF until they could actually use the points but I might have read that wrong.

I know when I initially bought (developer), I bought in late June and the closest use year they could make the points available was October 1, but I was also not paying anything until middle of September. I didn't have access to the website until September either.

 

[CO skier]

I think the stigma is, at least for me is, paying MF for points that cannot be used immediately. In some cases, months.

How is that any different from an owner selling a contract that will transfer midway into the Use Year where the previous owner used all the points for the Use Year?

There was a time when an owner could strip two years of future points from Wyndham contracts and then sell it "as is". Believe it or not, some people and Wyndham, too, bought those "stigmatized" contracts -- until first TUG and then Wyndham put an end to the practice.

 

[Floridaman76]

How is that any different from an owner selling a contract that will transfer midway into the Use Year where the previous owner used all the points for the Use Year?

There was a time when an owner could strip two years of future points from Wyndham contracts and then sell it "as is". Believe it or not, some people and Wyndham, too, bought those "stigmatized" contracts -- until first TUG and then Wyndham put an end to the practice.

To your first point, one would hope that was disclosed, and the buyer went into the transaction knowing this would be the case.

To your second point, seems pretty stupid that anyone would do that, and good thing that was stopped.

 

[CO skier]

To your second point, seems pretty stupid that anyone would do that, and good thing that was stopped.

It was actually kinda smart on the part of the seller while it lasted, but just as "questionable" as any Developer timeshare sale. Definitely a "buyer beware" situation (and how many timeshare buyers know to beware of these kind of shady practices?)

 

[CO skier]

To your first point, one would hope that was disclosed, and the buyer went into the transaction knowing this would be the case.

You must be unfamiliar with eBay auctions -- disclosure? maybe, maybe not. Not sure what the disclosure rules are in the TUG Marketplace For Sale ads, or anywhere else, for that matter.

 

[Pink_Warrior]

I will tell you the real reason that this realignment issue is really bad for an owner.

Let's say you bought that contract that was an April UY. They are going to drop it into your account. So you will then have Jan-Dec 2024, Apr-Mar 2025, Jan-Dec 2025, etc.

So even (when) if they realign you, there is the bucket there, Apr-Mar, that will stick around for a couple of years IF you get them to fix it. Why this is important is that when you borrow points from the next UY, the system will go to that Apr-Mar bucket. So if you want to borrow, you need to call in which is never a great solution.

 

[Danlop88]

All Wyndham contracts on eBay are cheap now, even Canterbury, South Shore, and Bali Hai. Pretty much everything is selling at or less than closing costs. It’s concerning tbh.

It is a bit concerning. That 84k Bali Contract on ebay went for 1 dollar(plus closing cost). I messaged the seller and the 42.86 a month included the program fee. That would put this under 4/1000 Maintenace fee if I calculated that correctly (42.86*12-195)/84000*1000=3.80.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

It is a bit concerning. That 84k Bali Contract on ebay went for 1 dollar(plus closing cost). I messaged the seller and the 42.86 a month included the program fee. That would put this under 4/1000 Maintenace fee if I calculated that correctly (42.86*12-195)/84000*1000=3.80.

Those ebay maintenance fee listings are always wrong for one reason or another in my experience. That $42.86 might have included the program fee, but the contract was part of an ownership that met the minimum program fee, so you can't just subtract $195.

 

[paxsarah]

Those ebay maintenance fee listings are always wrong for one reason or another in my experience. That $42.86 might have included the program fee, but the contract was part of an ownership that met the minimum program fee, so you can't just subtract $195.

First, it's currently $200 for PlusPartners owners (and I assume going up for 2025). And this is close to my guess, except based on the numbers I would guess that it's multiple contracts that still don't quite meet the minimum program fee. The numbers don't work if you either assume that that this is the only contract and fully back out the minimum program fee, or if you assume there are multiple contracts that meet the minimum program fee and use the per k program fee, but it does fall somewhere in the middle. If the previous owner owned a second contract in the 63k range, it would be pretty close.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

First, it's currently $200 for PlusPartners owners (and I assume going up for 2025). And this is close to my guess, except based on the numbers I would guess that it's multiple contracts that still don't quite meet the minimum program fee. The numbers don't work if you either assume that that this is the only contract and fully back out the minimum program fee, or if you assume there are multiple contracts that meet the minimum program fee and use the per k program fee, but it does fall somewhere in the middle. If the previous owner owned a second contract in the 63k range, it would be pretty close.

Yeah this makes sense. The ebay maintenance fee information is worthless for this reason. The Tug maintenance fee thread is a better resource.

 

[Danlop88]

Yeah this makes sense. The ebay maintenance fee information is worthless for this reason. The Tug maintenance fee thread is a better resource.

Still a good MF no matter way you look at it. I just assume people want more points for these contracts to offset the closing fees.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Still a good MF no matter way you look at it. I just assume people want more points for these contracts to offset the closing fees.

Yeah. Small contracts are hard to sell because of the closing costs, doesn’t matter which resort. I don’t think prospective buyers are always acting rationally there given how MF will be a much larger cost over the life of your ownership.

 

[Floridaman76]

Yeah. Small contracts are hard to sell because of the closing costs, doesn’t matter which resort. I don’t think prospective buyers are always acting rationally there given how MF will be a much larger cost over the life of your ownership.

If you want to see irrational, look at some of the real estate entities out there trying to sell timeshares.

Case in point. And believe me there are more egregious examples out there.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Those aren’t irrational. Those are scam operations charging huge upfront listing fees on the promise of delivering the moon.

 

[TUGBrian]

sure is alot easier to get someone to pay 799 bucks upfront if you tell them they have a chance of selling their timeshare for 50k!

 

[am1]

I do not know why it is so difficult for people to understand. The contract transfers to you in March or April and realigned with your January Use Year. You pay maintenance fees on the April Use Year points after the transfer -- 8 or 9 months worth until the end of 2025 -- then receive the full Use Year of points in January, 2026 to use until December 31, 2026. How did you not come out 3-4 months worth of maintenance fees ahead?

You are wrong and so is Wyndham. When Wyndham first started this and now it should be prorated. Not really that difficult to calculate and in the end the points received and fees paid are the same. Or do not bother changing use years and have the it department manage it properly. The sales agents preached different use years as a benefit.

Are converted fix weeks that have different use years or all are ending December 31