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UPDATE: RCI CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT - must read for all RCI members [Includes Results]

Would you like to see a specific statement from RCI that it will not retaliate

  • Yes, I would be more comfortable seeing such a statement if I felt I could trust that it was true

    Votes: 229 86.7%
  • No, I do not feel such a statement is necessary

    Votes: 35 13.3%

  • Total voters
    264

DeniseM

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It would appear that all the lawyers representing plaintiff's will be awarded some fee when all is said and done.

The larger law firms more fees, and the individual lawyers also a smaller fee.

Dependent on the number of clients they represent?

Not true - not all of the lawyers are ASKING for fees.
 

Carolinian

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Susan Collins is IMHO the ONLY attorney is this action who has the interests of timesharers at heart and the ONLY one that can be trusted. She is in it for principle not a 7 figure or even a quarter million payout. She went to the last hearing without any expectation of being paid a cent.
 

thheath

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*quote deleted*

I write again to emphasize it is very frustrating to be misunderstood when from day one 2.5 years ago when I started documenting the RCI exchange process I have diligently and zealously worked with no pay and at great risk to improve the RCI exchange process for class members. Ms. Collins work on this case has been tremendous and I am sure the court will reward her. There is no reason objecting attorneys goals would diverge, especially in a case like this were our main goal is to try and insure fairer exchanges.[/QUOTE]

Stephan,
Is it true what some of the threads are saying that you are asking the court for $250K in fees and who retained you for this case?
 
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DeniseM

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Stephan,
Is it true what some of the threads are saying that you are asking the court for $250K in fees and who retained you for this case?

Just to clarify - this is not a matter of speculation - it is a fact that has been stated by Stephan, in court documents, that are a matter of public record:

1) Until very recently his only client was his own father. In a recent court document he stated that he is no longer representing his father, but he does have a new client, named in the document.

2) He is asking for $250,000 from the RCI settlement.
 
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DeniseM

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Second most important question, DeniseM is Ms. Collins representing you? Again, this may raise a serious legal question.

I'll make you a deal Stephan, if you answer all the unanswered questions in this thread about YOU, I will be glad to answer your questions about ME! ;)
 
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stevedmatt

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This is why our legal systems stinks. I have yet to meet a lawyer I trust, only those who I feel will represent my best interests because I am paying them plenty.

And a lawyer not being forthcoming is nothing new. Stephan, prove you're not an everyday lawyer and answer some questions.
 

Susan2

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Attorney Disclaimer Ordered by the United States District Court:

I am an attorney who was admitted to represent some of the objectors in a class action pending in the United States District Court for the District of New Jersey. Any statements by an attorney, including myself, should be considered to be the personal opinion of the attorney and are not approved by the Court. As such, my statements contained herein are not approved by the Court. More information is available at www.weeksprogramsettlement.com, the Court-approved website.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Susan Collins is IMHO the ONLY attorney is this action who has the interests of timesharers at heart and the ONLY one that can be trusted. She is in it for principle not a 7 figure or even a quarter million payout. She went to the last hearing without any expectation of being paid a cent.

Thanks, Carolinian! It's true that I AM in this mainly for the principle of it. What RCI is doing is simply wrong, and it's absolutely time to take a stand.

That being said, however, at this point, your accolades (and those of DeniseM) may be undeserved. While I ORIGINALLY had no notion of getting paid, at this point I would like very much to get paid. I have spent so much time on this case since the August hearing that I have had to turn down several paying clients just to keep up on this case. AND my personal life has been very attenuated, too (to the point of having arguments with family about my unavailability). Furthermore, my local counsel has expended so much time and energy that I think it would only be fair to see them compensated, too.

If I were spending the time on normal and reasonable legal work (communicating with clients, responding to reasonable requests, drafting court papers based on reasonable grounds) I might feel differently. However, the other attorneys in this case are forcing me to waste time responding to spurious claims and nonsensical allegations. (It makes me consider the matrimonial bar in which I practice REALLY civil!) One of these spurious claims is the oft-repeated accusation that I am somehow "soliciting" clients -- WHICH ISN'T EVEN NECESSARILY WRONG -- but which I have nevertheless NOT done, and also have repeatedly denied. Since no one can show otherwise, there have also been claims that other clients of mine are soliciting clients on my behalf (which I have taken pains to ensure that they do not). It doesn't even seem to matter that on my posts I have been careful NOT to eagerly accept clients who inquire about retaining me, much less suggest that they do so. (Those who send me private messages are a different matter.) I have also been careful to emphasize that there is no particular benefit to the people who retain me.

Nor do I believe that if I get paid, it will be on a "per client" basis. (I've never even heard of such a thing.) An award of fees could be based on time spent and expenses reasonably incurred, but IMO it would make even more sense to base an award of fees (at least partially) on effectiveness of efforts for the class!

It seems to me that the other attorneys involved are having difficulty understanding that people are attracted to what I say and do, rather than responding to some sort of "advertising." In my regular practice, I don't advertise, either. Not even in the telephone book, although I am listed in the yellow pages -- sometimes in tiny print, but sometimes in what is called "semi-bold." That is, capital letters, but not bold print. I do that so that people who are looking for me can find me among all the bolded names and advertising blurbs (not to mention all the full-page, half-page, and quarter-page ads). I have been extremely fortunate that my clients find me without my reaching out to find them -- often by word of mouth.

What makes me even angrier is that these other active attorneys have given grief to some of my clients who have become friends, and who have worked extremely hard on this case out of only the best of intentions, and completely unselfishly. They have spent countless hours letting people know about the issues and the case, but their efforts have been derided, their motivations called into question, their tactics criticized, and their every public statement subjected to intense scrutiny. All needlessly. Some of them have been subjected to what amount to personal attacks, and feel they are being used to attack me. As a result, some of my clients/friends have decided to represent themselves so that they are free to speak and act without casting any shadow over what I do. Am I angry about that? YES!!!!! (But not at my friends!)

Lately, even people whom I do NOT represent get criticized and questioned about their relationship with me if they so much as speak up for me. I absolutely understand if some of you out there would like me to represent you, but aren't asking because it might (somehow, out of a form of logic I am unfamiliar with) cast doubts on the veracity and sincerity of your sentiments.

Nor has my local counsel gotten a free pass. What can I say? Some Indian tribe was said to have had a saying to the effect that you measured a warrior's worth by the strength of his enemies. Well, if intensity of the efforts against me are any indication, I am apparently a worthy opponent. But I'm angry now.

So, at this point, Carolinian, I have added "getting paid" (by one of the parties, but NOT by my clients) to my list of objectives. Success is the best revenge, after all, and it would tickle me no end to not only defeat this one-sided contract, and to successfully stem one small part of the tide of corporate greed, but also to get paid for my efforts to boot!

I'm not asking for a quarter million dollars, either. (But I sure wouldn't turn my nose up at it!)

An attorney representing RCI recently called my local counsel apparently mainly for the purpose of telling him that RCI would never agree to paying fees either to him or to me. Well, RCI may not AGREE to pay us, but the judge may have other ideas. We'll see. My local counsel and I are happy to leave this decision in the hands of the judge.

My sincere apologies to anyone who may find my desire to be compensated disappointing. Hey, I'm not soliciting a halo, either. :)

However, I trust that even DeniseM and Carolinian will understand. (By the way, they are NOT my clients -- at least at this point -- since somehow that seems to make a difference to SOME people.)

Susan
 
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DeniseM

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Susan - thanks for being so frank - and thanks for everything you are doing for TS owners! Good luck! :hi:
 

thheath

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Susan,

I believe that most people on this forum realize you have their best interest at heart and support you 110%.

In my opinion you would be a fool to not want to get paid for your time and effort considering RCI will be forking over the money for the legal fees. I would much rather see you paid then the attorneys that are trying to sell us out or any Johnny come lately...

Thank you for you efforts and honesty
 

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I hope Jennie is NOT speaking through her attorney, Ms. Collins.... objectors have the right to retain their own attorney.

I have been posting on TUG thousands of times since 1994 without any outside coaching. I own 19 "timeshares" including fixed-deeded weeks, one floating week (which I always use or occasionally rent), RCI Points and Wyndham Fairfield Points. I have close friends who own Marriotts, Hilton Grands, Starwood, Diamond Resorts, Shell Vacation Clubs memberships, etc...We care very much about timesharing and have years of experience that we gladly share with others. We have no financial motive whatsoever.

Stephan is stating that "objectors" have the right to retain their own attorney. DUH! What he fails to state is that Objectors do not have to have an attorney to make their objections known to the Court. That is the whole point of sending an objection letter to the Court, postmarked by November 20th.

RCI Weeks members, whether in favor of, or opposed to the proposed settlement, may come to court and speak for themselves without any attorney. That's how I became involved in this case. That's the first time I ever met (or knew) Ms. Collins. She spoke very knowledgeably about the reasons why the proposed settlement is inadequate and unfair, as did Shep Altshuler, Publisher of Timesharing Today Magazine.

The next "Fairness Hearing" is scheduled for November 30th at the Federal Court in Trenton. I plan to be there. If anyone else finds it feasible to do so, please send a brief "Notice of Appearance" to the court, postmarked by November 20th.We'd love to have some moral support.
 
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Jennie

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POSTED by Stephan: "Ms. Welling is making it as difficult as possible for objectors to file objections as seen by the two court hearings held at her request this month."

In what way?
 
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dundey

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Is it too late to object to the settlement?
I've been away on business for awhile, and did not get to it as of yet.
 

Carolinian

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Susan - I do not begrudge you a fee at all. You went into this as a volunteer, and got more involved than you ever expected, and that is good for all of us in timesharing. You deserve to be compensated for your time, and you certainly deserve it more than the nominal plaintiffs lawyers. Indeed, justice would be for you to get paid and them not, as they have been worse than useless for RCI's victims.
 

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I'll make you a deal Stephan, if you answer all the unanswered questions in this thread about YOU, I will be glad to answer your questions about ME! ;)

LMAO! Right. Stephan has NEVER answered questions about himself or his motivations. I don't see him coming clean now. I never trust people who are not transparent...especially lawyers...
 

Tia

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I sent this quote to a ts owner lawyer at my one resort that helped lead the fight against our developer as feel it is so true. More power to you! :cheer:

.... Some Indian tribe was said to have had a saying to the effect that you measured a warrior's worth by the strength of his enemies. Well, if intensity of the efforts against me are any indication, I am apparently a worthy opponent....


Susan
 

catcher24

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I have read this entire thread, been observing what has been said and done herein, and sent my objection letters about three weeks ago. I have only owned a time share for about five years, but I have been involved in the legal system for over 35 years. For what it's worth, in my opinion the ONLY attorney in this entire fiasco that I would trust is Ms. Collins. She obviously has the best interests of her clients and other objectors at heart BECAUSE SHE BECAME INVOLVED ON HER OWN WITHOUT BEING RETAINED BY ANYONE! Please re-read that bolded statement, which pretty much says it all. How often have any of you seen an attorney put the time and effort into any type of action that Ms. Collins has into this action before being retained by any parties? Never, in my experience. Now that it has developed into a full fledged battle, with the original plaintiff's attorneys apparently going over to the other side at some point (at least IMHO - the sellout, as Carolinian refers to it), I think Ms. Collins would be insane not to request compensation. As for guest Stephen, he has never to the best of my knowledge answered any questions asked of him, either on this thread or via PM, and that certainly casts his motives into doubt in my mind.

And no, Ms. Collins is not my attorney. I just believe in calling a spade a spade.
 

motomem

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I posted this on another board but will post it here also.
= = = = =
So after finally doing some catch-up work on this lawsuit, in preparation for sending objection letters, I read the "Terms and Conditions Of RCI Weeks Subscribing Membership" that is posted on the RCI website.

In black and white, in section 24. RCI RIGHTS, it flatly states: "RCI may, at any time, dispose of Vacation Time in any commercially reasonable manner.".

There are no other restrictions on this statement. It appears to me, imho, that RCI has done nothing wrong. You deposit a week, they can do whatever with it at any time. I cannot find anywhere in the terms and conditions any kind of time restriction where they must hold banked weeks for a period of time so that they are available to exchangers.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but based on this and what the lawsuit is about, there is no reason to object to any settlement because the lawsuit is basically bogus. I'm not saying I like the way they run the program, but everyone agreed to the terms and conditions when they joined the program.

It sounds like the lawsuit should be modified to be about changing the terms and conditions so that banked weeks are available for exchange up until a certain point, not based on the fact that RCI did anything "wrong" because it appears they did not. Of course, changing the terms and conditions will happen as a result of the lawsuit, but the basis of the lawsuit seems to be untrue. Plus any changes may only be for two years. Then they go back to their current methods.

Again, if I misread the terms and conditions somebody please let me know.
 

Carolinian

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That is called a contract of adhesion. A business can not just bury something in the fine print, especially something that totally contradicts the way it presents itself to members to induce them to make deposits, and then get away with it. What if your bank buried something in the fine print that said they could keep the money you deposit if they wanted to? Or pay you back in any type of dollars they wanted, like say Hong Kong dollars?

Consumer protection law says that if a company does something that is ''unfair'' or ''deceptive'' it is unlawful. The fact that they wrote a selfserving rule that says they can do it is not a defense, and may on the contrary be evidence of their intentional wrongdoing.

If they put in big letters on their materials that they could rent your deposits instead on using them for exchanges, how many deposits do you think they would get? That is why they hide this stuff, and that is why their actions are BOTH deceptive and unfair.


I posted this on another board but will post it here also.
= = = = =
So after finally doing some catch-up work on this lawsuit, in preparation for sending objection letters, I read the "Terms and Conditions Of RCI Weeks Subscribing Membership" that is posted on the RCI website.

In black and white, in section 24. RCI RIGHTS, it flatly states: "RCI may, at any time, dispose of Vacation Time in any commercially reasonable manner.".

There are no other restrictions on this statement. It appears to me, imho, that RCI has done nothing wrong. You deposit a week, they can do whatever with it at any time. I cannot find anywhere in the terms and conditions any kind of time restriction where they must hold banked weeks for a period of time so that they are available to exchangers.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but based on this and what the lawsuit is about, there is no reason to object to any settlement because the lawsuit is basically bogus. I'm not saying I like the way they run the program, but everyone agreed to the terms and conditions when they joined the program.

It sounds like the lawsuit should be modified to be about changing the terms and conditions so that banked weeks are available for exchange up until a certain point, not based on the fact that RCI did anything "wrong" because it appears they did not. Of course, changing the terms and conditions will happen as a result of the lawsuit, but the basis of the lawsuit seems to be untrue. Plus any changes may only be for two years. Then they go back to their current methods.

Again, if I misread the terms and conditions somebody please let me know.
 

Goofyhobbie

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Welcome To TUG

motomem,

Carolinian is right on target when he points out that what RCI is and has been doing is deceptive and unfair. Just because a company has the abilty to dictate the terms of doing business that does NOT make what they choose to do legally sufficient.

Adhesion contracts such as RCI's Terms and Conditions, your auto insurance policy, credit card contract, or life insurance contract should be fair and reasonably adhere to the purpose of the contract for the good of both the consumer and the company writing the terms.

It is true that you or I as a consumer can take our business elsewhere, but isn't that just letting the Bully continue to control the playground.

Leaving the playground with our tail between our legs just because RCI has dictated some rules that we don't like is not the way this should work out.

If the rules that RCI has dictated take advantage of you as a consumer then a Court can and should say that those rules are wrong.

We as Consumers are not getting what we bargained for.

We need to stand up and get justice for ourselves and justice for those who otherwise will continue to do business with companies like RCI.

I object vehemently to the proposed settlement because it will do exactly what you say it will do. It will, for the most part, rubber stamp what RCI has been doing for the last nine years and leave them free to continue to take advantage of an unknowing membership.

RCI writing its own rules and changing them when ever it suits their purpose and their pocket book does not sit well with me!

I AM SICK AND TIRED OF THEIR BUSINESS PRACTICE and I AM DOING SOMETHING TO GET THOSE BUSINESS PRACTICES CHANGED!

If you agree with us please join us by submitting your own objection.

Information on how you can do that easily is provided here:

http://rciclassactionlawsuit.com/TUG_member_information_and_instructions_for_RCI_class_action_settlement.html

For more explicit information on why I object to RCI's adhesion contract take a moment of your time and read post # 788.

You only have to go back one page.

There are roughly 200 of us who on this thread have agreed that we should OBJECT and very few who feel the way you do now.

If after considering what we have said here you decide to change your position and object we welcome you and will help you.

Do not stand by and let RCI and the Plaintiffs Attorneys push through a settlement that is NOT IN YOUR BEST INTEREST!
 

motomem

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Thanks for the answers, and no, I'm not an RCI plant, lol. And I certainly cannot read all the legalese in the court documents, lol. I was doing MY due diligence to catch-up on the lawsuit. I am a new timeshare owner as of 2006. I already have my objection letters printed and ready. They will be in the mail tomorrow.

I do hope we get the chance to make some alterations to the settlement. I'm not out to sink RCI, but I would like a fair chance at exchanges before banked weeks are opened to being rented.

And to add to my own situation, I got a call from a lawyer in CO this week saying the company that I bought that timeshare from also deeded the week, about a year later, to someone else. They are having to foreclose on that guy and in the process found out about me, woo hoo!! hahahaha
 

ecwinch

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That being said, however, at this point, your accolades (and those of DeniseM) may be undeserved. While I ORIGINALLY had no notion of getting paid, at this point I would like very much to get paid. I have spent so much time on this case since the August hearing that I have had to turn down several paying clients just to keep up on this case. AND my personal life has been very attenuated, too (to the point of having arguments with family about my unavailability). Furthermore, my local counsel has expended so much time and energy that I think it would only be fair to see them compensated, too.

I do not dispute that you should be compensated, but in the interest of full disclosure - what might you think would be the upper range of what you will be requesting?
 

crazyhorse

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Terms and Conditions

I posted this on another board but will post it here also.
= = = = =
So after finally doing some catch-up work on this lawsuit, in preparation for sending objection letters, I read the "Terms and Conditions Of RCI Weeks Subscribing Membership" that is posted on the RCI website.

In black and white, in section 24. RCI RIGHTS, it flatly states: "RCI may, at any time, dispose of Vacation Time in any commercially reasonable manner.".

There are no other restrictions on this statement. It appears to me, imho, that RCI has done nothing wrong. You deposit a week, they can do whatever with it at any time. I cannot find anywhere in the terms and conditions any kind of time restriction where they must hold banked weeks for a period of time so that they are available to exchangers.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but based on this and what the lawsuit is about, there is no reason to object to any settlement because the lawsuit is basically bogus. I'm not saying I like the way they run the program, but everyone agreed to the terms and conditions when they joined the program.

It sounds like the lawsuit should be modified to be about changing the terms and conditions so that banked weeks are available for exchange up until a certain point, not based on the fact that RCI did anything "wrong" because it appears they did not. Of course, changing the terms and conditions will happen as a result of the lawsuit, but the basis of the lawsuit seems to be untrue. Plus any changes may only be for two years. Then they go back to their current methods.

Again, if I misread the terms and conditions somebody please let me know.

I made some comments in an earlier post 662, but here they are copied below:

Terms of Membership

I have a couple of old "Directory of Resorts" books and have been comparing the wording in the Terms of Membership between then and now.

Both say that before you can request an exchange,
" you must deposit holiday ownership rights with us and we will put them into the RCI Pool of exchange accommodation"

The previous (old book) said

"By depositing Holiday Ownership rights, you relinquish all rights to use them and agree that those Holiday Ownership rights may be used by RCI without restriction to conduct exchanges, inspections visits, promotions and other purposes in RCI`s discretion."

Note that this does not mention Rental, although this could have been part of "other purposes."

The current version has altered the last condition to

"By depositing your Holiday Ownership with us, you relinquish all rights to use them and agree that they may be used by RCI without restriction"

Note that in the last sentence I have put in the bold type, not RCI.

Their print was pretty small! As has been mentioned above in general correspondence, RCI has not been very helpful in its notification of the settlement. It wasn`t very helpful either with the notification of the change of Terms of Membership!

Also in the Terms, the Variations paragraph suggests that any changes to the Terms will not come into effect until they (ie the changes) have been published. Again, I think they could have made a better job of informing their members regarding these changes, though I don`t expect that RCI would have revealed what they had in mind.

You are correct in what the current terms of membership are and how RCI reckons they can do what they want legally -we don`t!. I will add the following:

If RCI follows their own terms to the letter of the law they must also place each and every deposit into the Weeks Exchange Pool. There is some evidence that they are not doing so at present, and the Settlement suggests that they will carry on in the same manner.

p.s. my 3 letters of objection are winging their way across the pond.:deadhorse:
 

thheath

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I do not dispute that you should be compensated, but in the interest of full disclosure - what might you think would be the upper range of what you will be requesting?

What do you care?

What she gets paid is just less for the other lawyers who don't have are best interests at heart. If she is able to salvage this settlement for us and alter RCI's practices I hope she gets a $1M.
 

crazyhorse

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Terms and Conditions

Stephan:

The quotes are from the RCI publication called

Holiday Directory of Resorts 2001-2002. This is the name given to the version sent out to the European Members. Copyright 2000
The quote is from section 6. Depositing your holiday ownership, and is under subsection 6.2. .

The same wording was also used in the later book called
RCI Community Guide. This again is the same type of RCI publication as above, i.e a directory of European resorts, photos etc, including brief details of some resorts outside of Europe eg USA. It is from perhaps 2004-5 although it is not dated at the front page. The copyright is 2003.

The quote in this guide is listed under the same section and subsection as above. :ponder:
 
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