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Unpaid Maintenance Fees

1950bing said:
You bought it , you pay for it ! Man /woman up ! You knew this when you purchased it.Don't expect me to cover you as I wouldn't expect you to cover me. What's wrong with some people in the USA ?
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sounds easy dosent it...but saying it doesnt make it happen.

and saying it dosent change the fact that one place I own has over 17% of the budget listed as bad debt

We have a problem and we need to solve it.....Who is this we I speak of??? the poa of course



understand: the things some of us are suggesting are not being suggested to help the deadbeats or even the folks that have experienced some change in their lives that makes a timeshare impossible to pay for. We are making these suggestions out of pure self interest.

The idea is to get unproductive weeks into the hands of of folks willing and able to pay their fair share as soon as possible

I happen to believe that the poas are in the best position to do this... If as some say...they dont have sales orgainzations and they dont have a rental department...they ought to get one
 
ronparise said:
sounds easy dosent it...but saying it doesnt make it happen.

and saying it dosent change the fact that one place I own has over 17% of the budget listed as bad debt

We have a problem and we need to solve it.....Who is this we I speak of??? the poa of course



understand: the things some of us are suggesting are not being suggested to help the deadbeats or even the folks that have experienced some change in their lives that makes a timeshare impossible to pay for. We are making these suggestions out of pure self interest.

The idea is to get unproductive weeks into the hands of of folks willing and able to pay their fair share as soon as possible

I happen to believe that the poas are in the best position to do this... If as some say...they dont have sales orgainzations and they dont have a rental department...they ought to get one
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Two problems.

1) If there IS a sales organization on site and they do not wish to offer resales the HOA/POA usually cannot as they almost always hold exclusive rights to offer any onsite sales.

2) If there is NO sales organization on site it is usually because there is an extremely limited or no market for timeshare in that area/resort. An HOA/POA that tries to operate one there will likely find a fair caost with little or no return.

And a bonus third - it is NOT the HOA/POA's responsibility to do sales for anyone. They are chartered only to operate/maintain the resort and collect whatever is needed to do that properly. No sales mentioned in any documents I've ever read. Unless the owners have a vote to make them responsible they may not even technically have any right to offer sales except as part of a foreclosure process.

The responsibility is and remains with the owner of the time no matter what the circumstances. it remains their decision to buy, to own and if they tire of it properly sell the ownership just like any other property they may own. You can't legally even abandon a car or a tin can by simply dumping it somewhere. It can be traced back to you and you can be charged for disposal, littering or both. Once you take ownership of anything you also have to properly dispose of it - not leave it to someone else to deal with. Timeshare no exception.
 
To add to what John posted, in some areas the HOA woould need to be registered as a Real Estate broker to sell more than a small handful of weeks. Those resorts must either hire a broker (and pay commissions), or have someone on staff with the appropriate licenses.

Some here seem to think the "Association" is some entity other than the individual owners. It is not. It is a entity made up of all the individual owners. When you suggest the Association should be required to take deeds back, you are suggesting an obligation upon yourself! When the association buys (or takes) back weeks, those are no longer paying weeks.

Consider a small resort with 20 units, each sold for 50 weeks of use - 1000 units weeks. If the resort takes back 10% of the units, the cost of running the resort will have to ba shouldered by the remaining 900 owners. Yes, "tha Association" is responsible for the fees for those 100 unit weeks, but remember who the Association is. You and 899 other Association members own those 100 weeks, and must come up with the fees for them!

It does behoove the Association to take back weeks if they are headed to forclosure, because they will save on legal fees. But they should not have tot ake weeks back because the owners are tired of them.
 
Ridewithme38 said:
.... That sounds like the kid that would normally have gotten that 2.4millon and two houses, is now responsible for the timeshare and his kids and his kids ...
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Estates with significant assests are very much candidates for sellers that would make an offer to a buyer to take it for free and up to 3,000 or so to take it. Using your estimates for the value of the Estate, if there were 2-4 heirs, the pro-rated "hit" per heir would be well within what they would find acceptable to free up the Estate Assests. P.S. They could still do partial distributions to free up most of the money.
 
What if there were regional companies that offered Rent-A-Weasels to handle sales for these resorts. There would be no need for a full-time sales staff, but instead the rent-a-weasel companies would have contracted relationships with multiple TS resorts, with the TS resort front desk for scheduling tours/updates/etc. that the part-time rent-a-weasel would show up for. Say, $75 an hour plus a cut of the sale.
 
Beefnot said:
What if there were regional companies that offered Rent-A-Weasels to handle sales for these resorts. There would be no need for a full-time sales staff, but instead the rent-a-weasel companies would have contracted relationships with multiple TS resorts, with the TS resort front desk for scheduling tours/updates/etc. that the part-time rent-a-weasel would show up for. Say, $75 an hour plus a cut of the sale.
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Or just make a deal with a local real estate broker...Heck, if you give them, 12 weeks they could market it to snow/sun birds
 
Ridewithme38 said:
Or just make a deal with a local real estate broker...Heck, if you give them, 12 weeks they could market it to snow/sun birds
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There you go, that's an idea...
 
timeos2 said:
Two problems.

1) If there IS a sales organization on site and they do not wish to offer resales the HOA/POA usually cannot as they almost always hold exclusive rights to offer any onsite sales.

2) If there is NO sales organization on site it is usually because there is an extremely limited or no market for timeshare in that area/resort. An HOA/POA that tries to operate one there will likely find a fair caost with little or no return.

And a bonus third - it is NOT the HOA/POA's responsibility to do sales for anyone. They are chartered only to operate/maintain the resort and collect whatever is needed to do that properly. No sales mentioned in any documents I've ever read. Unless the owners have a vote to make them responsible they may not even technically have any right to offer sales except as part of a foreclosure process.

The responsibility is and remains with the owner of the time no matter what the circumstances. it remains their decision to buy, to own and if they tire of it properly sell the ownership just like any other property they may own. You can't legally even abandon a car or a tin can by simply dumping it somewhere. It can be traced back to you and you can be charged for disposal, littering or both. Once you take ownership of anything you also have to properly dispose of it - not leave it to someone else to deal with. Timeshare no exception.
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John

I dont disagree. all owners have a responsibility to pay their fees but thats not the issue, the issue is with those that havent read your post ...the ones that dont pay

In spite of what you say some folks are not paying their fees

Ive looked at the budgets for the 7 resorts I own...every one has a bad debt expense line , some more than others but all significant.

Using one as an example......bad debt is 17%...as I see it 17% of the owners are not paying their fees and again as I see it, if everyone was paying, my fees would drop by $100 a year

Is that a problem or not? If it is I dont think you have solved it by saying "man up"

...what do you suggest we do?...I know its not my responsibility and I know its not the responsibility of the other owners (you have made that clear) , the developer is long gone. so I expect your solution will not involve the paying owners directly, or our poa, or the developer...so what do we do

Perhaps I can make up some bumper stickers that say "man up" maybe that will encourage folks to pay their fees...
 
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ronparise said:
Perhaps I can make up some bumper stickers that say "man up" maybe that will encourage folks to pay their fees...
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That is classic. How about: "MAN UP. Pay your MF MFs"
 
ronparise said:
John

I dont disagree. all owners have a responsibility to pay their fees but thats not the issue, the issue is with those that havent read your post ...the ones that dont pay

In spite of what you say some folks are not paying their fees

Ive looked at the budgets for the 7 resorts I own...every one has a bad debt expense line , some more than others but all significant.

Using one as an example......bad debt is 17%...as I see it 17% of the owners are not paying their fees and again as I see it, if everyone was paying, my fees would drop by $100 a year

Is that a problem or not? If it is I dont think tyou have solved it by saying "man up"

...what do you suggest we do?...I know its not my responsibility and I know its not the responsibility of the other owners (you have made that clear) , the developer is long gone. so I expect your solution will not involve the paying owners directly, or our poa, or the developer...so what do we do

Perhaps I can make up some bumper stickers that say "man up" maybe that will encourage folks to pay their fees...
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Ron -

A 17% delinquency is a big red flag that management is not doing their job. How bad can it be? We had a delinquency rate of 52% - only 48% of all owners paid in June of 2000 - at one of my resorts. We literally faced a shutdown. Why? Because the developer based management didn't have a proper owners list so they didn't really know who to bill and when they did they didn't follow up as "it might hurt sales if the guest don't come in". So it didn't take long for owners to figure out they could reserve & stay - payment or not!

It took a year, a $200K+ lawsuit and numerous threats but the owners won and installed an independent management, had a special assessment to get back on firm financial footing and in 2001 we had 30% delinquency. 2002 - 15%. By 2006 we had 3% delinquency. And an accurate owners list.

Fast forward to 2012 and the economy has hurt a bit - we're back to 6% now but holdong steady - and more importantly we have no delinquents older than 12 months. Our management enforces the collection rules to a tee and if a week is unpaid in August of the billing year they are headed into foreclosure after two rounds of collections. By early the next year the title has been recovered & transferred to a paying owner. They don't age & we don't compromise. Now owners know it and you better believe the payments ae there by the 1/1/ due date.

Your problem isn't delinquent owners it's lax or incompetent management. That may be a big part of the problem we're having about why this is so bad at so many resorts. Maybe the numbers aren't really as big as people think. The managements just aren't doing the collection work they should be thus high delinquencies = high fees. It does happen. People don't pay if they think they can get away with it.
 
Beefnot said:
That is classic. How about: "MAN UP. Pay your MF MFs"
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The Sticker junkie would make those for you - cheap!

(I have some that read Serenity Now!) :)
 
Beefnot said:
What if there were regional companies that offered Rent-A-Weasels to handle sales for these resorts. There would be no need for a full-time sales staff, but instead the rent-a-weasel companies would have contracted relationships with multiple TS resorts, with the TS resort front desk for scheduling tours/updates/etc. that the part-time rent-a-weasel would show up for. Say, $75 an hour plus a cut of the sale.
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Would this program be limited to a Wessel or could licensed Real Estate Agents get involved? They might consider less than $75 dollars per hour and maybe even skip the Commission.
 
Definitely, the idea of licensed agent is definitely more palatable and pleasant. Maybe even have some onsite hours for these contracted agents. Although the peddling of timeshares can sometimes be a dirty business that rent-a-weasels might have a specialized set of skills for handling.
 
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