Unable to change guest name 4 days before check in?

[DeniseM]

Leslie - You sound like you work for Marriott?

 

[LeslieDet]

Leslie - You sound like you work for Marriott?

LOL - why on earth would you say that? I most definitely do not work for MVW or any affiliate nor have I ever worked for them. I do run a FB owner group for MVC owners (almost 5000 strong now) and I am a retired lawyer, who started practicing law in 1987. I am able to communicate with MVW senior management directly on many issues, after I wrote to the CEO and general counsel about various topics. That created a communication path. The senior corporate officer who replied to my inquiries has been very open to communication; so when things come up, I ask him what is going on. The back door access has been one of those topics. He informed me about how Marriott Inc was running into breaches of the BonVoy T&C and stated that MVW is also auditing owner accounts to verify occupancy, and that they were working with Marriott Inc to close that back door access for name change through the BonVoy app.

Folks have gotten all outraged because the wording on the name change form reminds the owners that they retain liability for damage. That is simply how it has always been. It is simply contract law. If you have a rental agreement where your tenant indemnifies you, great, but that doesn't mean MVW sues your tenant. The indemnity clause in the rental agreement means if you are sued, then you have the right to sue your tenant to indemnify you from the damages you sustain as a result of the tenant's conduct. And, the express T&C of each and every purchase agreement signed with MVC says "commercial activity is prohibited". Meaning, you can't buy ts to then turn it into a rental business. So, requiring the form isn't a breach of any T&C. There is no "fodder".

 

[DeniseM]

My apologies - I just meant that you sound very knowledgeable about the inner-workings of Marriott.

 

[LeslieDet]

My apologies - I just meant that you sound very knowledgeable about the inner-workings of Marriott.

I make it my business to try and learn as much as I can about the inner workings of MVW. I'm thankful that the company is willing to communicate directly with me.

 

[DeniseM]

Makes sense - and they probably already know this over on the Marriott forum, but I don't spend a lot of time over there, so I appreciate the info.

 

[daviator]

Just FYI - the form simply summarizes into one document the T&C we all signed up for. There is no fodder for a lawsuit, what is the breach? The T&C prohibit commercial activity; you can easily add someone to the reservation at the time it is being made if you are booking it for a family member; if you are renting out your reservation, it reminds all owners that they remain ultimately responsible for the unit and any damage that may ensue (which has always been the case). Yes, the misleading sales pitches from the various sales teams that are "buy more to rent" are complete BS and should be banned and reported to corporate, but that wasn't any contractual right you held.

Overall, the form is easy to use and conveys the information that the company needs to ensure the actual person entitled to stay for the reservation is checking in.

It is my understanding that the app name changes resulted in folks receiving ENC when they made the reservation, but were not the one sleeping in the room at night. Sadly, folks who were violating the T&C of BonVoy caused the implementation of the form. Marriott Inc led the way to close the loophole because folks with hotel reservations using their BonVoy points or FNCs were changing the name of the guest so others could stay, in violation of the BonVoy T&C, and the account owners were still getting ENC, and their illicit guests BonVoy level perks, even though they didn't have status.

You have always had to show identification when checking in, at least for the past couple of decades, so I am not sure this change fixes the loophole you mention. It’s completely possible, then or now, to check in under your name and then hand the keys to someone else who would stay in the room.

What isn’t possible, then or now, is for someone other than the named guest to check into the room.

The issue is whether you can change the name of the guest on relatively short notice, as might be necessary if you’re unexpectedly unable to travel and want relatives or friends (or, potentially, renters, though finding those at the last minute might not be easy) to utilize your reservation as opposed to just losing it. In the past this change was easy, now it may be difficult or impossible. I haven’t reviewed the contract to see what it says about this.

I’m not arguing for those who make a business of timeshare rentals. That is clearly prohibited and I’m glad of that. But that’s different than owners who regularly use, and occasionally rent, what they own. That has never been prohibited and I’ve always assumed that the vague, undefined phrase “commercial use” was used intentionally to allow some latitude in enforcement. Commercial use is probably one of those things that’s hard to contractually define but easy to identify when you look at real world situations.

 

[LeslieDet]

You have always had to show identification when checking in, at least for the past couple of decades, so I am not sure this change fixes the loophole you mention. It’s completely possible, then or now, to check in under your name and then hand the keys to someone else who would stay in the room.

What isn’t possible, then or now, is for someone other than the named guest to check into the room.

The issue is whether you can change the name of the guest on relatively short notice, as might be necessary if you’re unexpectedly unable to travel and want relatives or friends (or, potentially, renters, though finding those at the last minute might not be easy) to utilize your reservation as opposed to just losing it. In the past this change was easy, now it may be difficult or impossible. I haven’t reviewed the contract to see what it says about this.

I’m not arguing for those who make a business of timeshare rentals. That is clearly prohibited and I’m glad of that. But that’s different than owners who regularly use, and occasionally rent, what they own. That has never been prohibited and I’ve always assumed that the vague, undefined phrase “commercial use” was used intentionally to allow some latitude in enforcement. Commercial use is probably one of those things that’s hard to contractually define but easy to identify when you look at real world situations.

If you are there at check in and hand your keys to someone else, you don't need to worry about the form. So that is irrelevant. Of course you can hand your keys to someone else if you are there personally. But, if you have two different reservations, you will only receive ENC for the room you are staying in. If you check in and then hand your keys to someone and you leave, well, you had to give the front desk your credit card (since they won't take someone else's if it is you checking in) and you are not entitled to any ENC for staying, because you aren't.

Regarding someone not named on the reservation checking in, what had been happening is that folks made a reservation for their MVC ownership; then instead of notifying MVC that there was going to be a guest checking in, they went to the BonVoy app to change the name of the guest, but they did not delete their BonVoy number. Thus, the person checking in had his or her name down on the reservation because of the change, but the system still applied the owner's BonVoy number and that owner was receiving ENCs from the stay even though the ts owner was not staying at his or her ownership. If the guest wasn't a BonVoy member, then they did not care about correcting the erroneous info. That has been a problem for MVW and they are actually auditing accounts, at least that is what was communicated to me.

The form isn't intended to prohibit last minute name changes as far as I'm aware; indeed, I have not seen any reports by folks who have changed the name in fewer than 30 days prior to check in by using the form where their guest had problems at check in. But I have read reports (I do not have personal knowledge) of instances where the guest was rejected because the form was not submitted, and the attempt was made only via the BonVoy back door access to change the name. I do not know how those instances were resolved; and as I indicated, I do not have personal knowledge of that happening, I simply read some posts in various FB groups about that happening, so they could or could not be accurate.

 

[davidvel]

[. . .]
The form isn't intended to prohibit last minute name changes as far as I'm aware; indeed, I have not seen any reports by folks who have changed the name in fewer than 30 days prior to check in by using the form where their guest had problems at check in. But I have read reports (I do not have personal knowledge) of instances where the guest was rejected because the form was not submitted, and the attempt was made only via the BonVoy back door access to change the name. I do not know how those instances were resolved; and as I indicated, I do not have personal knowledge of that happening, I simply read some posts in various FB groups about that happening, so they could or could not be accurate.

There are no facts to support what you are saying. [. . .] You are basing your view on hearsay. Unless and until the facts are available, it is merely speculation on your part [. . . ]

 

[daviator]

If you are there at check in and hand your keys to someone else, you don't need to worry about the form. So that is irrelevant. Of course you can hand your keys to someone else if you are there personally. But, if you have two different reservations, you will only receive ENC for the room you are staying in. If you check in and then hand your keys to someone and you leave, well, you had to give the front desk your credit card (since they won't take someone else's if it is you checking in) and you are not entitled to any ENC for staying, because you aren't.

Regarding someone not named on the reservation checking in, what had been happening is that folks made a reservation for their MVC ownership; then instead of notifying MVC that there was going to be a guest checking in, they went to the BonVoy app to change the name of the guest, but they did not delete their BonVoy number. Thus, the person checking in had his or her name down on the reservation because of the change, but the system still applied the owner's BonVoy number and that owner was receiving ENCs from the stay even though the ts owner was not staying at his or her ownership. If the guest wasn't a BonVoy member, then they did not care about correcting the erroneous info. That has been a problem for MVW and they are actually auditing accounts, at least that is what was communicated to me.

The form isn't intended to prohibit last minute name changes as far as I'm aware; indeed, I have not seen any reports by folks who have changed the name in fewer than 30 days prior to check in by using the form where their guest had problems at check in. But I have read reports (I do not have personal knowledge) of instances where the guest was rejected because the form was not submitted, and the attempt was made only via the BonVoy back door access to change the name. I do not know how those instances were resolved; and as I indicated, I do not have personal knowledge of that happening, I simply read some posts in various FB groups about that happening, so they could or could not be accurate.

That’s the bit I wasn’t understanding, that folks were using the Marriott site to change the name while keeping their Bonvoy number in the record, and trying to get ENC for someone else's stay. I agree that is a violation and I understand MVC wanting to put a stop to it. They probably pay something for the ENC and regardless, it’s not fair for someone to get ENC they didn’t even through actual stays.

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that the lousy Marriott IT systems allowed that to happen. It seems like it would be an issue for hotel stays too, and I’m surprised that Marriott Hotels allows it.

in the past, on the Vistana side, you called customer service to change the name on a reservation. If you can still do that, even at the last minute, then I have no complaints. I generally support changes that prevent people from gaming the system.

 

[LeslieDet]

@davidvel - you simply must enjoy criticizing me; of course you always take everything out of context. LOL - what a complete joke.

 

[LeslieDet]

That’s the bit I wasn’t understanding, that folks were using the Marriott site to change the name while keeping their Bonvoy number in the record, and trying to get ENC for someone else's stay. I agree that is a violation and I understand MVC wanting to put a stop to it. They probably pay something for the ENC and regardless, it’s not fair for someone to get ENC they didn’t even through actual stays.

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that the lousy Marriott IT systems allowed that to happen. It seems like it would be an issue for hotel stays too, and I’m surprised that Marriott Hotels allows it.

in the past, on the Vistana side, you called customer service to change the name on a reservation. If you can still do that, even at the last minute, then I have no complaints. I generally support changes that prevent people from gaming the system.

Based upon my written communication with MVW, the corporate executive with whom I communicate indicated to me that Marriott Hotels actually implemented a policy requiring the maker of any reservation in which BonVoy points or FNCs are being used must call to change a name on such a reservation and they are now blocked from making that change via the BonVoy app. It was this executive who indicated that MVW was in the process of having Marriott Inc close that loophole on the timeshare side. It has apparently been a big issue with BonVoy members obtaining ENC when they are not the guest, and customer audits have ensued.

 

[dioxide45]

Based upon my written communication with MVW, the corporate executive with whom I communicate indicated to me that Marriott Hotels actually implemented a policy requiring the maker of any reservation in which BonVoy points or FNCs are being used must call to change a name on such a reservation and they are now blocked from making that change via the BonVoy app. It was this executive who indicated that MVW was in the process of having Marriott Inc close that loophole on the timeshare side. It has apparently been a big issue with BonVoy members obtaining ENC when they are not the guest, and customer audits have ensued.

I know that MI is getting kinda stingy with ENC. When trying to submit a missing stay request, they indicated that because my Bonvoy account wasn't marked as a vacation club owner I am not eligible. Even though I am an owner and stayed in the unit. My wife is the one whose account is associated with both our Vistana and Marriott ownership.

 

[timsi]

Based upon my written communication with MVW, the corporate executive with whom I communicate indicated to me that Marriott Hotels actually implemented a policy requiring the maker of any reservation in which BonVoy points or FNCs are being used must call to change a name on such a reservation and they are now blocked from making that change via the BonVoy app. It was this executive who indicated that MVW was in the process of having Marriott Inc close that loophole on the timeshare side. It has apparently been a big issue with BonVoy members obtaining ENC when they are not the guest, and customer audits have ensued.

You likely feel flattered by the attention they give you. It's a win-win situation for both you and the company. Through back channels, such as the one you described, Marriott is able to disseminate its messages and spin without direct accountability. Now, we have to rely on the assumption that everything they tell you is accurate and that they consistently provide you with the genuine reasons behind their actions.

 

[timsi]

Just FYI - the form simply summarizes into one document the T&C we all signed up for. There is no fodder for a lawsuit, what is the breach? The T&C prohibit commercial activity; you can easily add someone to the reservation at the time it is being made if you are booking it for a family member; if you are renting out your reservation, it reminds all owners that they remain ultimately responsible for the unit and any damage that may ensue (which has always been the case). Yes, the misleading sales pitches from the various sales teams that are "buy more to rent" are complete BS and should be banned and reported to corporate, but that wasn't any contractual right you held.

Contrary to your assertions, rentals are actually explicitly permitted at the Vistana resorts, as clearly outlined in our resort rules, like to those at Lagunamar.

According to article 14, Section 14.4 on Rentals, “Members may rent their reserved Vacation Periods by signing a Member rental agreement with the Property Association or a third party.”

Indeed, in the preceding section 14.3 of the same article, we find: “They may not use a Vacation Unit for any commercial purpose.” The interpretation of these two provisions makes it evident that rentals are indeed permitted and that the restriction on commercial activities does not relate to rentals but it rather prohibits the operation of physical businesses from the condo units. Please state whether your suggestion that the rentals are forbidden is based on personal beliefs and speculation, or based on communication with Marriott.

 

[bizaro86]

Adding a restriction that names be changed 30 days in advance is absolutely new, and isn't something they should be able to do.

And we know they'll try and add new terms that benefit them even when those expressly contradict our contractual rights, because they've done it before. For example, when they added a fee to change the guest name for Vistana reservations when they had no right to do so for home resort reservations at many resorts.

They only backed down on that after a concerted pressure campaign from members here led by Denise.

One would have thought their ever-so-competent lawyers would have blocked them from that, as it was a violation of their customers pre-existing rights.

All this to say - I don't think you can automatically assume MVW has your best interests at heart - if they think they can get away with extracting more money from owners they will, even if it isn't allowed per the docs.

 

[DeniseM]

Clarification: This is the Vistana forum, where we primarily discuss what we know about Vistana. The fact that we are now Marriott step-children, does not change the original Vistana terms and conditions which are essentially "deeded" terms. Therefore, Marriott's T&C's and Vistana's T&C's would not be changed by Marriott becoming our over lords. However, things like depositing with Interval and exchanging with Staroptions are not "deeded," and may indeed be changed by the management company. In theory, the BOD's at each resort approve changes, but for the most part, they are rubber stamped.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Clarification: This is the Vistana forum, where we primarily discuss what we know about Vistana. The fact that we are now Marriott step-children, does not change the original Vistana terms and conditions which are essentially "deeded" terms. Therefore, Marriott's T&C's and Vistana's T&C's would not be changed by Marriott becoming our over lords. However, things like depositing with Interval and exchanging with Staroptions are not "deeded," and may indeed be changed by the management company. In theory, the BOD's at each resort approve changes, but for the most part, they are rubber stamped.

^^^^ THIS ^^^^

MVC has no right to set name-change restrictions for Vistana HomeResort reservations - at least for deeded VOIs.

Perhaps another concerted effort is needed?
Previously, the MVC consumer advocate group was responsive.


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[dioxide45]

From what I understand the Abound Exchange Procedures (T&C for Club Point reservations) state that name changes should be provided 30 days in advance. I don't believe the form on Vistana.com says anything about 30 days? Though it does have the 5 day limitation as the option disappears 5 days out.

Can you do name changes over chat which has longer hours than the call center?

 

[timsi]

From what I understand the Abound Exchange Procedures (T&C for Club Point reservations) state that name changes should be provided 30 days in advance. I don't believe the form on Vistana.com says anything about 30 days? Though it does have the 5 day limitation as the option disappears 5 days out.

Can you do name changes over chat which has longer hours than the call center?

This arbitrary 5-day "rule", a recent addition despite Vistana's years of operating without it, creates unnecessary burdens and risks chaotic scenarios. Imagine the holiday season: your flight's delayed, you're stuck at the airport scrambling for alternatives, and all the while you're trying to reach Vistana for a name change when they are most likely closed– a process that should be done effortless online. Meanwhile, your family and friends are already at the resort, unable to check in without you.

Marriott readily fills last-minute inventory in their own rental business, so why this owner-only restriction? A simple last minute online name change could resolve the issue seamlessly, avoiding stress and chaos. Furthermore, the uncertainty adds insult to injury. There's no guarantee the name change button won't vanish days or even weeks before your trip, leaving you scrambling with no warning from Marriott.

 

[daviator]

If the purported problem that MVC is trying to solve is that owners could change the guest name but leave their Bonvoy number and get Elite Night Credit for someone else's stay (that’s what one member here reported) it sure seems there are better ways to solve that problem. For example, if you change the name, it should erase the Bonvoy number field and require you to enter a new Bonvoy number that correlates to the guest name, or to leave that field blank. The idea that they are making name changes difficult merely to avoid giving ENC to undeserving owners doesn’t really pass the sniff test with me. I can believe that they CLAIM that’s the reason, but it doesn’t make sense as the solution doesn’t really relate to the problem.

 

[davidvel]

If the purported problem that MVC is trying to solve is that owners could change the guest name but leave their Bonvoy number and get Elite Night Credit for someone else's stay (that’s what one member here reported) it sure seems there are better ways to solve that problem. For example, if you change the name, it should erase the Bonvoy number field and require you to enter a new Bonvoy number that correlates to the guest name, or to leave that field blank. The idea that they are making name changes difficult merely to avoid giving ENC to undeserving owners doesn’t really pass the sniff test with me. I can believe that they CLAIM that’s the reason, but it doesn’t make sense as the solution doesn’t really relate to the problem.

Exactly. The system shouldn't award anything to the Bonvoy account if the number doesn't match the check in name.

 

[dioxide45]

Exactly. The system shouldn't award anything to the Bonvoy account if the number doesn't match the check in name.

I am not sure the system is smart enough and doesn't the owner name still remain on a reservation even when a guest is added to checkin? I think this whole run around is so MVC can manually remove the Bonvoy number when changing a guest name. There is really nothing automated about the MVC or Vistana online forms. Manual human intervention changes the guest name. In reality, the Marriott.com system shouldn't allow guest name changes at all and I am rather surprised that it does. It seems this new process prevents the ENCs being awarded. Perhaps in the past, even with the guest on the reservation. whichever number was in there would match one of the names associated with the rental and the owner would still get credit.

I am not sure that Marriott is all that concerned with a few ENCs being awarded when they shouldn't. Most renters, if they are Bobvoy members should be adding/changing the Bonvoy number on file at checkin. I guess the ones that didn't were where the owner was getting credit. I know some owners that had it written in their rental contracts that the renter couldn't change the Bonvoy number on file. Didn't seem right and the owner wouldn't really have any recourse if they did change it.

Marriott certainly has a reason for instituting such changes and the ENC is one plausible scenario. I am sure they have others but I don't know they are necessarily instituting such policies to be malicious toward owners renting their reservations.

 

[davidvel]

I am not sure the system is smart enough and doesn't the owner name still remain on a reservation even when a guest is added to checkin? I think this whole run around is so MVC can manually remove the Bonvoy number when changing a guest name. There is really nothing automated about the MVC or Vistana online forms. Manual human intervention changes the guest name. In reality, the Marriott.com system shouldn't allow guest name changes at all and I am rather surprised that it does. It seems this new process prevents the ENCs being awarded. Perhaps in the past, even with the guest on the reservation. whichever number was in there would match one of the names associated with the rental and the owner would still get credit.

I am not sure that Marriott is all that concerned with a few ENCs being awarded when they shouldn't. Most renters, if they are Bobvoy members should be adding/changing the Bonvoy number on file at checkin. I guess the ones that didn't were where the owner was getting credit. I know some owners that had it written in their rental contracts that the renter couldn't change the Bonvoy number on file. Didn't seem right and the owner wouldn't really have any recourse if they did change it.

Marriott certainly has a reason for instituting such changes and the ENC is one plausible scenario. I am sure they have others but I don't know they are necessarily instituting such policies to be malicious toward owners renting their reservations.

My point was that the system should, and easily could, cross-reference the info at check-in, even if the agent then had to manually compare the info. As others have noted, there are much more simple, cheaper, and efficient methods to avoid giving credit to the wrong guest than this system.

IMO any claim that this is the reason is total BS and the reason is to have someone manually track guest changes, to allow for monitoring of big renters and allow them to unilaterally impose repercussions at their discretion.

 

[LeslieDet]

If the purported problem that MVC is trying to solve is that owners could change the guest name but leave their Bonvoy number and get Elite Night Credit for someone else's stay (that’s what one member here reported) it sure seems there are better ways to solve that problem. For example, if you change the name, it should erase the Bonvoy number field and require you to enter a new Bonvoy number that correlates to the guest name, or to leave that field blank. The idea that they are making name changes difficult merely to avoid giving ENC to undeserving owners doesn’t really pass the sniff test with me. I can believe that they CLAIM that’s the reason, but it doesn’t make sense as the solution doesn’t really relate to the problem.

You may think it the explanation doesn't pass the "sniff test" as you put it, so just thought I'd share the wording of an email communication I received from MVW when discussing the back door name change access. I'm purposefully omitting the name of the corporate executive I communicate with, as that is irrelevant for this post.

"We are aware of the loophole that some owners have used to change the name on a reservation. This has become a priority for Marriott International to fix, as it not only affects our business, but is a violation of the Bonvoy terms and conditions. Owners are receiving Bonvoy credit for reservations they are renting to a third party. This violates the program and several hundred Bonvoy accounts have been put under “audit” as a result. This means the account is frozen and may be cancelled. Bonvoy is going to continue to audit the accounts as they become aware of the one-off issues, but there is also a system-wide fix to be implemented soon."

And, just FYI, from a personal experience, I can confirm that previously when using the add a name to the reservation feature on BonVoy, the name addition/change would not automatically delete the original BonVoy account number linked to the reservation. To change the BonVoy number on a ts reservation, you had to speak with a MVC CS rep or do it upon check in.

 

[DavidnRobin]

This is about deeded Vistana ownership - not Marriott BonVoy (Hotel) usage, or MVC ownership.
This is a Vistana forum…


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