[Ugh] Another Honors Devaluation up to 200k

[PigsDad]

*Hyatt pts are (still) far more valuable than HH pts...

Isn't it pointless to compare point values of different hotel systems? There are just too many variables. For example, how many Hyatt points do you earn from a credit card on a basic purchase (no bonus points, no special categories)? With Hilton, it is 3 points per dollar. I just looked, and with Hyatt it is 1 point per dollar.

So with $10K spend on the hotel's CC, you would get 10K Hyatt points or 30K Hilton points. Well I certainly hope Hyatt points are worth more than Hilton points since you earn 3X more Hilton points on the same CC spend. Now the question is: what kind of rooms does 10K of Hyatt points get you vs. 30K of Hilton points when you want to use those points?

And all of that is not taking into account of other ways to earn points. Points earned for stays, bonus points for status, bonus points for CC spend, etc. It's very complicated to do an apples to apples comparison, IMO.

Kurt

 

[jp10558]

Isn't it pointless to compare point values of different hotel systems? There are just too many variables. For example, how many Hyatt points do you earn from a credit card on a basic purchase (no bonus points, no special categories)? With Hilton, it is 3 points per dollar. I just looked, and with Hyatt it is 1 point per dollar.

So with $10K spend on the hotel's CC, you would get 10K Hyatt points or 30K Hilton points. Well I certainly hope Hyatt points are worth more than Hilton points since you earn 3X more Hilton points on the same CC spend. Now the question is: what kind of rooms does 10K of Hyatt points get you vs. 30K of Hilton points when you want to use those points?

And all of that is not taking into account of other ways to earn points. Points earned for stays, bonus points for status, bonus points for CC spend, etc. It's very complicated to do an apples to apples comparison, IMO.

Kurt

The other big difference IMO is - are there Hyatts where you want to stay in Hotels? One reason I've only ever compared Hilton to Marriott historically was that I'm often wanting a hotel in not a big city. Like just off the highway for road trips, or smaller towns / cities. Hilton and Marriott really pushed into these areas, though for my money I still see Hamptons more often in "wow, there's a decent hotel here" than I do Marriotts, but they're catching up. This may be an artifact of rural central NY / PA though IDK. Interestingly though, I do think there's a lot of Wyndham stuff now that they've bought so many brands, but I don't know about the brands being somewhere I'd want to stay (Super 8?). On the flip side, I'm not needing top end fancy for the prices - I like to stay at or under $200 a night if I can, and if the upper tier Hiltons are more like $350+ I imagine Hyatt is like that too. I do plan to do some cross brand checking now that I didn't do in the past with the HH devaluation - specifically I plan to try the II hotels Priceline integration and see how good/bad it is.

 

[mountainboy]

Isn't it pointless to compare point values of different hotel systems? There are just too many variables. For example, how many Hyatt points do you earn from a credit card on a basic purchase (no bonus points, no special categories)? With Hilton, it is 3 points per dollar. I just looked, and with Hyatt it is 1 point per dollar.

So with $10K spend on the hotel's CC, you would get 10K Hyatt points or 30K Hilton points. Well I certainly hope Hyatt points are worth more than Hilton points since you earn 3X more Hilton points on the same CC spend. Now the question is: what kind of rooms does 10K of Hyatt points get you vs. 30K of Hilton points when you want to use those points?

And all of that is not taking into account of other ways to earn points. Points earned for stays, bonus points for status, bonus points for CC spend, etc. It's very complicated to do an apples to apples comparison, IMO.

Kurt

Agree.
Best play is Chase Freedom Flex, 5x in respective categories (or 1.5x for CFU for everything), depending on purchase & xfr those to Hyatt (1:1).
I have stayed at a beautiful, brand new Hyatt Place in Flagstaff AZ; weekend stay was 6.5k pts for Saturday night stay; cash value>250 or 300 for summer stays.
Hilton's Hampton Inn etc are usually 60k pt/nt for similar stay..

 

[brp]

*Hyatt pts are (still) far more valuable than HH pts...

And the benefits are top tier are the best of any of the majors. We have top status (Globalist) at Hyatt and this is our primary US destination. We do burn HH points abroad as they have a larger footprint and better benefits.

Cheers.

 

[mountainboy]

This was my summer escape, from brutal PHX heat, until my summer weekend stays in Carlsbad/CA, courtesy HGVC pts...

 

[brp]

The other big difference IMO is - are there Hyatts where you want to stay in Hotels? One reason I've only ever compared Hilton to Marriott historically was that I'm often wanting a hotel in not a big city. Like just off the highway for road trips, or smaller towns / cities. Hilton and Marriott really pushed into these areas, though for my money I still see Hamptons more often in "wow, there's a decent hotel here" than I do Marriotts, but they're catching up. This may be an artifact of rural central NY / PA though IDK. Interestingly though, I do think there's a lot of Wyndham stuff now that they've bought so many brands, but I don't know about the brands being somewhere I'd want to stay (Super 8?). On the flip side,

Interesting. My brother-in-law has a job that takes him to small town areas 'cause that's where the cow poop that his company works with is located (don't ask). He finds that Marriott has the better small town footprint. But this tends to be more toward the west.

Hyatt will never win that fight. I was just looking for a place in Helsinki, Finland. Several Hiltons, including one we've stayed at before. Nearest Hyatt is an affiliate (think what SLH used to be for them) about 50 miles away.

Cheers.

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

*Hyatt pts are (still) far more valuable than HH pts...

Definitely! But having both is our new strategy. Gives more options

 

[ljmiii]

Definitely! But having both is our new strategy. Gives more options

Same with us...but for Hilton and Marriott. Between the two we're covered with a range of options in most locations. For what it's worth, we're Diamond and Titanium and I'd say overall we're treated slightly better at Hilton brand hotels.

That said, I do look longingly at the Hyatt Globalist perks. And we're very happy to stay in Hyatts where neither Marriott nor Hilton has a footprint (e.g. SFO and Hakone Japan). But chasing status in a third hotel brand family just isn't going to happen.

 

[Lady Mary]

Just wondering if the increase has to do with HGV buying BlueGreen, they were trying to get us to buy into the HGV.

 

[GT75]

Just wondering if the increase has to do with HGV buying BlueGreen, they were trying to get us to buy into the HGV.

I don't understand the logic because Hilton Hotels is a different company from HGV.

 

[Zenichiro]

*Hyatt pts are (still) far more valuable than HH pts...

You can’t really compare points one-to-one between programs. The cent-per-point value isn’t equal—30,000 Hyatt points is roughly the same as having 100,000 Hilton points in terms of what they’re worth. And since Hilton points are generally easier to earn through promotions and credit card spend, the higher point amounts can be a bit misleading.

I had Globalist last year and it was decent but I didn’t find it worth obtaining overall. I’m sticking with Hilton for now unless the devaluation gets worse.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

Just wondering if the increase has to do with HGV buying BlueGreen, they were trying to get us to buy into the HGV.

As GT75 mentioned, Hilton and HGV are actually separate companies, so I don't think this is related to Bluegreen.

The most likely scenario is that as the cash rates for hotels increase, they periodically increase the points costs for hotels to keep them somewhat aligned.

 

[jp10558]

As GT75 mentioned, Hilton and HGV are actually separate companies, so I don't think this is related to Bluegreen.

The most likely scenario is that as the cash rates for hotels increase, they periodically increase the points costs for hotels to keep them somewhat aligned.

Though I think this is actually a bit of a scam because (at the low end sure) I regularly see that points do not == $$ in any clear way. I've seen cash rates at like $185 sometimes be 50k pts, sometimes 26k pts. In the same area I've seen points be more while cash rates are less - though that's usually like $20 or 5k pts or so.

On top of this I think the cash rates (at least where I'm going so far) mostly peaked and have come down back to where they often were pre-pandemic - and this is across brands except in very in demand cities, and even NYC is down about 50% from what I was seeing during the insanity of ~$900 a night minimums maybe 2 years ago.

Maybe at the top top end (I guess like this is talking about, I tend to think anything over 100k pts is a top end place or non-standard room reward.)

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

Isn't it pointless to compare point values of different hotel systems? There are just too many variables. For example, how many Hyatt points do you earn from a credit card on a basic purchase (no bonus points, no special categories)? With Hilton, it is 3 points per dollar. I just looked, and with Hyatt it is 1 point per dollar.

So with $10K spend on the hotel's CC, you would get 10K Hyatt points or 30K Hilton points. Well I certainly hope Hyatt points are worth more than Hilton points since you earn 3X more Hilton points on the same CC spend. Now the question is: what kind of rooms does 10K of Hyatt points get you vs. 30K of Hilton points when you want to use those points?

And all of that is not taking into account of other ways to earn points. Points earned for stays, bonus points for status, bonus points for CC spend, etc. It's very complicated to do an apples to apples comparison, IMO.

Kurt

Hilton points are valued at .5 while Hyatt is valued close to 2 cents so that has to be taken into account.

 

[ljmiii]

The most likely scenario is that as the cash rates for hotels increase, they periodically increase the points costs for hotels to keep them somewhat aligned.

The biggest change I've seen in both Hilton and Marriott over the past decade or so is that the points redemption cost of 'aspirational' properties (i.e. Conrad/WA/JW/Ritz level resorts in the locations like the Maldives and Bora Bora) used to be capped well below their cash price. I assume this was to encourage loyalty but don't actually know. And that artificially low 'aspirational' pricing has been tossed out the window.

 

[brp]

Hilton points are valued at .5 while Hyatt is valued close to 2 cents so that has to be taken into account.

I've seen 1.4 - 1.7 cents for Hyatt and the same 0.5 cents for Hilton.

On another site I saw a very detailed analysis that, mathematically, came to an interesting conclusion: in terms of the $ spent earning these various points, they are all roughly equivalent. And this went beyond these two. These were for program members who had the affinity card.

As an example, the earning for Hilton for a stay and using a Hilton card is about 32 points/$ (I forgot how he got that, but I did check at the time and it was correct). For Hyatt, it is 10.5 points/$ (at top tier). Looking at this, the value of points is about the same on the earning side (which is a constant within each program). The redemption side is very case-specific, so that can't be compared at all...sometimes even within a program

Cheers.

 

[PigsDad]

Hilton points are valued at .5 while Hyatt is valued close to 2 cents so that has to be taken into account.

Yes, you just proved my point -- comparing the value of points across different hotel systems is pointless, without considering how you can earn those points. I could create a new hotel reward system where a single point is worth $1,000. Would that make this new reward system better than any other hotel system w/o understanding what is needed to earn those points?

Kurt

 

[mountainboy]

Same with us...but for Hilton and Marriott. Between the two we're covered with a range of options in most locations. For what it's worth, we're Diamond and Titanium and I'd say overall we're treated slightly better at Hilton brand hotels.

That said, I do look longingly at the Hyatt Globalist perks. And we're very happy to stay in Hyatts where neither Marriott nor Hilton has a footprint (e.g. SFO and Hakone Japan). But chasing status in a third hotel brand family just isn't going to happen.

CC with Elite Status w/o any spend

Hilton Aspire= Diamond
Bonvoy Brilliant= Platinum
Chase Hyatt= Discoverist (more Pedestrian but much lower AF)

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

Hilton status was much easier to get with the Aspire card while Hyatt is challenging, but having globalist status has been amazing for us and our family/friends. Whichever you prefer it's a great supplement to our timeshares

 

[jp10558]

The biggest change I've seen in both Hilton and Marriott over the past decade or so is that the points redemption cost of 'aspirational' properties (i.e. Conrad/WA/JW/Ritz level resorts in the locations like the Maldives and Bora Bora) used to be capped well below their cash price. I assume this was to encourage loyalty but don't actually know. And that artificially low 'aspirational' pricing has been tossed out the window.

I'm sure Hilton has done the numbers, but I do think that the number of people actually redeeming 100k nights+ has to be small, and smaller for those who are in the Maldives etc. But the Halo product drives a lot of loyalty. It's stupid in some ways, but I have just done hotels in the Hilton app since roughly 2008 when I got the Citi HHonors card. I just took the "lowest HHonors price". But now I'm having more trouble booking last minute (I used to basically pull up the app and book a hotel when I was like 2 hours away or even as I pulled in, now I'm seeing more and more "sold out" which I kinda question), I'm seeing the price be noticeably higher than in aggregators and now we're getting "slapped in the face" with these devaluations.

For the first time in decades, I'm myself going to look at other brands and try the cheapest in category as a test, probably using the II hotels deal, and see if churning Hilton is still worth it.

 

[brp]

Hilton status was much easier to get with the Aspire card while Hyatt is challenging, but having globalist status has been amazing for us and our family/friends. Whichever you prefer it's a great supplement to our timeshares

And that's one of the advantages of Hyatt Globalist (and likely why Hyatt hasn't neutered top-tier like Hilton): it can't be obtained simply by holding a credit card; it must be earned the hard way. Although the inclusion of spend and award nights makes it much easier in our case. We did about 90 nights last year in total.

Cheers.

 

[jp10558]

And that's one of the advantages of Hyatt Globalist (and likely why Hyatt hasn't neutered top-tier like Hilton): it can't be obtained simply by holding a credit card; it must be earned the hard way. Although the inclusion of spend and award nights makes it much easier in our case. We did about 90 nights last year in total.

Cheers.

While "anyone can get the Aspire card" I don't think this ties much into the top-tier neutering. The reason is first there is the annual fee that I'd argue not a lot of people are jumping on. Plus, that gets you one FNC. It doesn't get you any specific amount of points, and again in "normal spend" you'd have to churn $33,000ish dollars to get 100,000 pts.

While this is certainly more than the people who'd spend 90 days in a hotel in a year, I question if the numbers are high enough to actually pressure many locations, because remember, there's another "gate" which is people willing to spend that 100k pts on a single night vs 2 nights or 2 rooms at an average / decent property. Hell, I'd kinda think the TS presentation "get to a million points" people are more likely to burn 100k like that.

Anyway, no matter what I don't think the status is really related to points costs for hotels in Hilton. Unless you're saying no points earning cards, you can only get points from paid stays at Hiltons. But then I think you're back to throwing away most/all leisure loyalty - I can see business travel people doing that, but that's a small (and maybe shrinking) market IMO. At least compared to vacations.

 

[WorldT]

Interesting. My brother-in-law has a job that takes him to small town areas 'cause that's where the cow poop that his company works with is located (don't ask). He finds that Marriott has the better small town footprint. But this tends to be more toward the west.

Hyatt will never win that fight. I was just looking for a place in Helsinki, Finland. Several Hiltons, including one we've stayed at before. Nearest Hyatt is an affiliate (think what SLH used to be for them) about 50 miles away.

Cheers.

If his work ever takes him to Texas, he will find IHG beats everyone else by a wide margin in small/rural towns (where the cow poop reside)

 

[ljmiii]

While "anyone can get the Aspire card" I don't think this ties much into the top-tier neutering. The reason is first there is the annual fee that I'd argue not a lot of people are jumping on...

I can't speak directly to Hilton's situation, but I do know that after AMEX and Marriott started offering the Brilliant card with Platinum access for $650/yr the card has been snapped up like hotcakes, lounges are overflowing, hotel owners are complaining, and gold/silver status has ceased to matter. At least in the US (the only country in which the Brilliant is offered). Marriott hotels have even started to post nightly stay signs at check in that usually read something along the lines of "Ambassador 2, Titanium 10, Platinum 80" to keep guests from pestering them about upgrades and crowded lounges.

 

[jp10558]

I can't speak directly to Hilton's situation, but I do know that after AMEX and Marriott started offering the Brilliant card with Platinum access for $650/yr the card has been snapped up like hotcakes, lounges are overflowing, hotel owners are complaining, and gold/silver status has ceased to matter. At least in the US (the only country in which the Brilliant is offered). Marriott hotels have even started to post nightly stay signs at check in that usually read something along the lines of "Ambassador 2, Titanium 10, Platinum 80" to keep guests from pestering them about upgrades and crowded lounges.

Hmmm - well, with the Hilton Hotels I've found that in the US and Canada frequently they operate like TSs in that while they have an upgrade available and you're eligible, they often won't unless you ask at check in. Though sometimes they will get you as part of a daily batch. They also list what subchains actually have upgrades in the hotels at all - the low end ones usually are all the same and don't have suites or views or whatever to upgrade to.

This is a place where I guess many many locations in the US don't really have lounges either so by being worse "all the time" I guess leads to less hassles.

On the hotel owners complaining - again I don't know about lounge to guest ratios they expect to handle - is it "everyone" has status, or are they just packed hotels (which I would think would make them happy, but I know various businesses hate being so successfully they may have to expand)? This feels like something the chains should have people considering and on the scale of 5+ years ought to have plans to manage appropriately. That it's failing may hurt their business eventually, but I don't really know what all draws people to stay at one hotel or chain vs another. Again, the status perks seem like they're not as much of a driver as I see in my personal interactions.