TUG mentioned and MVC on podcast

[chunkygal]

this was a podcast discussing pros/cons of timeshares on Jordan harbinger. Very interesting

 

[jp10558]

It was pretty interesting, and reasonably fair (though I don't think Wyndham is a scam, and TBH IME has more availability than HGVC). I always feel like there's some subtleties they miss though, or get so close to mentioning that are important. For instance, while they talk about how hotel prices do swing wildly, they don't consider that hotel prices are also going up over time. They also kind of miss that there are multiroom timeshares. There's a big pricing difference if you are comparing a 2BR timeshare to 2 hotel rooms.

They also only focused on the fixed week fixed location in talking about who timeshares are for, probably because that's what the "investigator" experienced via his parents. But the whole point of points systems is there are more than one week at one location, and I'm constantly going to new locations, though there are some I'd like to go back to.

I know it's getting down in the weeds, but missing the exchange companies really paints a way more limited set of locations. It also misses the last call or extra vacations deals too.

Finally I think some of the other financial analysis is very odd - they spend the whole time talking about loans and big purchase prices just to end with "buy resale". They even explain how much a difference the up front cost plus financing makes to the analysis - yet don't offer a resale option. $2,000 with no loan vs $24,000 which becomes $45,000 with interest ends up making the "salesmen math" more "real". Then they talk about how "high" the $1,000 median? average? MF is, but calmly talk about paying $500 a night in a Holiday Inn. It would have been nice for him to discuss what that Holiday Inn was vs what his parent's TS was.

I guess like so much in life, how you draw the bounding for costs makes a huge difference. My recent trips in hotels easily ran over $1,000 for 5 nights for a single room. What also increased the cost a lot though was needing to buy *every meal* and needing to increase airline fees to carry enough clothes for the full time I was away, or needing to spend a day in a laundrymat in a strange city. Most timeshares take this out of equation if you want.

This makes many of the timeshare MFs very much seem like a deal.

 

[davidvel]

It was pretty interesting, and reasonably fair (though I don't think Wyndham is a scam, and TBH IME has more availability than HGVC). I always feel like there's some subtleties they miss though, or get so close to mentioning that are important. For instance, while they talk about how hotel prices do swing wildly, they don't consider that hotel prices are also going up over time. They also kind of miss that there are multiroom timeshares. There's a big pricing difference if you are comparing a 2BR timeshare to 2 hotel rooms.

They also only focused on the fixed week fixed location in talking about who timeshares are for, probably because that's what the "investigator" experienced via his parents. But the whole point of points systems is there are more than one week at one location, and I'm constantly going to new locations, though there are some I'd like to go back to.

I know it's getting down in the weeds, but missing the exchange companies really paints a way more limited set of locations. It also misses the last call or extra vacations deals too.

Finally I think some of the other financial analysis is very odd - they spend the whole time talking about loans and big purchase prices just to end with "buy resale". They even explain how much a difference the up front cost plus financing makes to the analysis - yet don't offer a resale option. $2,000 with no loan vs $24,000 which becomes $45,000 with interest ends up making the "salesmen math" more "real". Then they talk about how "high" the $1,000 median? average? MF is, but calmly talk about paying $500 a night in a Holiday Inn. It would have been nice for him to discuss what that Holiday Inn was vs what his parent's TS was.

I guess like so much in life, how you draw the bounding for costs makes a huge difference. My recent trips in hotels easily ran over $1,000 for 5 nights for a single room. What also increased the cost a lot though was needing to buy *every meal* and needing to increase airline fees to carry enough clothes for the full time I was away, or needing to spend a day in a laundrymat in a strange city. Most timeshares take this out of equation if you want.

This makes many of the timeshare MFs very much seem like a deal.

So true, it is all about being informed and learning the system, though not all are great. There are many TS when bought resale that are amazing value vs the alternatives. Most people I know, TS owners or not, think ALL TS are rip-offs. When I tell them what I have exchanged for and the overall cost per week, they usually don't believe me.

 

[dioxide45]

There was that UCF 85% statistic mentioned yet. I am still trying to find the source study.

 

[vol_90]

There was that UCF 85% statistic mentioned yet. I am still trying to find the source study.

Here is a 2018 USA today article also referencing the UCF study

Trapped in a timeshare? Here's how to escape

Many timeshare agreements have a perpetuity clause, which can leave owners locked into maintenance payments and fees. But there are ways to negotiate.

www.usatoday.com

Also from the UCF website but looks like you need to be an authorized user to access the article details. May be able to contact UCF for the actual article.

UCF Research Guides: Resort and Timeshare Research Guide: Books

UCF Research Guides: Resort and Timeshare Research Guide: Books

guides.ucf.edu

 

[jp10558]

I have some University library access, and looked at the 2014 Travel & Tourism Market Research Handbook they have access to. But that handbook isn't a study and isn't peer-reviewed according to the library. My read of the 2014 timeshare chapter is literally just a list of statistics released by ARDA. I either am not looking at the right place, or it's not actually a study. In fact, reading the table of contents of the handbook just looks like a huge compilation of various magazine "top 10 beaches" sort of articles along with some basic statistics provided by the various industries. I don't see any indication that ARDA in this report even did a survey at all, maybe it's a different year handbook?

 

[dioxide45]

Here is a 2018 USA today article also referencing the UCF study

Trapped in a timeshare? Here's how to escape

Many timeshare agreements have a perpetuity clause, which can leave owners locked into maintenance payments and fees. But there are ways to negotiate.

www.usatoday.com

Also from the UCF website but looks like you need to be an authorized user to access the article details. May be able to contact UCF for the actual article.

UCF Research Guides: Resort and Timeshare Research Guide: Books

UCF Research Guides: Resort and Timeshare Research Guide: Books

guides.ucf.edu

Yeah, many of the newer videos and articles reference the USA Today article, but the link in that article is broken. I will have to see if I can dig anything up from the UCF website you provided.

I have some University library access, and looked at the 2014 Travel & Tourism Market Research Handbook they have access to. But that handbook isn't a study and isn't peer-reviewed according to the library. My read of the 2014 timeshare chapter is literally just a list of statistics released by ARDA. I either am not looking at the right place, or it's not actually a study. In fact, reading the table of contents of the handbook just looks like a huge compilation of various magazine "top 10 beaches" sort of articles along with some basic statistics provided by the various industries. I don't see any indication that ARDA in this report even did a survey at all, maybe it's a different year handbook?

I've done a fair bit of digging as well as emailing Dr Amy Gregory directly to see if I can get more information on the source study. She did a talk at ARDA World in 2017 when it seems this statistic was first mentioned. You can find more about it at this Redweek article. It is also that article that included her email address. I also had someone who contacted me through Facebook who was working with a research librarian to see if we could find any actual source documentation related to this research.

I believe the study was done in 2016 or 2017.

 

[jp10558]

I think we'd need to know the actual study title, or I'd need to spend more time on it than I'm really willing to do asking librarians about stuff that isn't actually related to my job.

 

[chunkygal]

I agree with all the caveats above, just thought it was interesting TUG was mentioned. I expected to hear just a slam. Also interesting millenials are purchasing. We have had such great memories and it did make me take more vacations. Hard to put a price tag on that.