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Trust Only owns at 11 resorts!

Back to the OP's question

Have we concluded that the Trust only owns at the 11 resorts listed? What is the conclusion from the OP's statement?
 
I found, in writing, that yes, they are separate pools. But Marriott is free to use them both for their point program reservations.

Yes, I talked to a rep today that basically told me the same thing.
 
Have we concluded that the Trust only owns at the 11 resorts listed? What is the conclusion from the OP's statement?

Yes, got confirmation today that the trust only owns units from those 11 resorts. T

hey expect that a majority of their current deed owner will join the system and those deposits and exchanges will make up most of the weeks used by Destinations club members.
 
There is no way Marriott thought many owners were going to like this. It was a calculated move that I'm sure they knew would piss off owners. It shows they are concerned about future profits and not current owners.

Not even the stupidest executive could have said " We'll assign home resort point values at less than owners need to make comparable trades, and owners are going to love it."

They knew what they were doing and didn't care.

I've heard that Marriott estimated only around 20% would be interested. If that's true, is that enough?
 
Yes, got confirmation today that the trust only owns units from those 11 resorts. T

hey expect that a majority of their current deed owner will join the system and those deposits and exchanges will make up most of the weeks used by Destinations club members.

Yep, they get to resell the sold out resorts to a new group of new points buyers. Given that is what they are able to do you have to wonder why they feel the need to short the values offered vs. points to reserve.
 
AGAIN, IF WE DON'T JOIN, THEY WON'T HAVE ANYTHING!

Not right: those with high points (7,000 or more), they can reserve direct the week they want on any resort. At least, that's is what I understood. So there's not necessary to have a pool of weeks for those that can reserve direct.:eek:
 
Not right: those with high points (7,000 or more), they can reserve direct the week they want on any resort. At least, that's is what I understood. So there's not necessary to have a pool of weeks for those that can reserve direct.:eek:

The point was that if a resort is sold out and none of the owners give up their week then a points owner cannot reserve a week. The points pool can only include weeks that Marriott owned or that are given up for reward points or club points. Or possibly II weeks that have been deposited and Marriott has been able to steal, but this has yet to be confirmed true.
 
The point was that if a resort is sold out and none of the owners give up their week then a points owner cannot reserve a week. The points pool can only include weeks that Marriott owned or that are given up for reward points or club points. Or possibly II weeks that have been deposited and Marriott has been able to steal, but this has yet to be confirmed true.

So the high point owners will be able to reserve direct at 13 months only at those 11 resorts. Is that right?
 
The point was that if a resort is sold out and none of the owners give up their week then a points owner cannot reserve a week. The points pool can only include weeks that Marriott owned or that are given up for reward points or club points. Or possibly II weeks that have been deposited and Marriott has been able to steal, but this has yet to be confirmed true.

So the high point owners will be able to reserve direct at 13 months only at those 11 resorts. Is that right?

No, if owners of weeks at sold out resorts give up their weeks, than high point owners can reserve those weeks at 13 months.

ray
 
I think there are two main schools of owners ... Those who buy to trade and those who buy to use, but when Marriott eventually tries to sell them all on joining how do they make it sound like a good deal when those owners have to pay more points to trade into their home resort than they can get for ownership .. Or can't trade up with a studio for a 1 or 2 bdrm suite .. Or can't trade equally into other resorts in the family? I really don't think those owners who are not exposed to Tug could think this a good deal...and especially if they know upfront that once they join they can't vote to get rid of Marriott at HOA meetings, or to fight excessive Marriott management fee increases.

Surely without those things it does make me wonder what we actually own if we join and give up control to big brother.

Brian


Yeah, but dont forget the legions of unwashed that dont know about TUG, dont know that they dont *have* to pay that II membership each year, and don't have a clue how to exchange anywhere.

For them, it will look like Mother Marriott is holding them close to her bosom and will make sure that everything is all right for them.
 
No, if owners of weeks at sold out resorts give up their weeks, than high point owners can reserve those weeks at 13 months.

ray

So, the reservation 13 months in advance using points are valid only on those 11 resorts, and on the other resorts, the have to exchange (a sold out resort need to have a owner's week deposited, so that week will be available for a point owner).
 
So, the reservation 13 months in advance using points are valid only on those 11 resorts, and on the other resorts, the have to exchange (a sold out resort need to have a owner's week deposited, so that week will be available for a point owner).

.


I heard it was not just those 11 resorts, but ANY MVCI property in which there is "Point" inventory available at time of request.
 
It's true, Points owners who want to exchange into sold-out resorts will be affected by limited availability because Marriott doesn't hold developer unsold inventory at those resorts.

But remember, inventory won't only be made available by Weeks or Enrolled Points owners who deposit their intervals for exchange to another resort. Any intervals exchanged for Reward Points or given to the Rental Program will also be made available.

I have no idea what those numbers are under the old system or what the expected numbers will be with this rollout, but it would be good to try to figure it out ...
 
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It's true, Points owners who want to exchange into sold-out resorts will be affected by limited availability because Marriott doesn't hold developer unsold inventory at those resorts.

But remember, inventory won't only be made available by Weeks or Enrolled Points owners who deposit their intervals for exchange to another resort. Any intervals exchanged for Reward Points or given to the Rental Program will also be made available.

I have no idea what those numbers are under the old system or what the expected numbers will be with this rollout, but it would be good to try to figure it out ...

I have been quoted as system-wide Marriott owners trade at a 70% rate - although if you look at Hawaii alone they trade at at 50%. It wasn't specified but I assume that includes points and rentals. They are counting on current owners to fill the majority of the destination club demand.
 
I have been quoted as system-wide Marriott owners trade at a 70% rate - although if you look at Hawaii alone they trade at at 50%. It wasn't specified but I assume that includes points and rentals. They are counting on current owners to fill the majority of the destination club demand.

I wonder what is the rate on HHI good weeks (gold and platinum). It should be really low.
 
I have been quoted as system-wide Marriott owners trade at a 70% rate - although if you look at Hawaii alone they trade at at 50%. It wasn't specified but I assume that includes points and rentals. They are counting on current owners to fill the majority of the destination club demand.

I wonder what is the rate on HHI good weeks (gold and platinum). It should be really low.

What about the number of weeks that go unused? I don't know what it is for Marriott specifically but doesn't the timeshare industry overall have some ridiculous number of owners who simply don't use their weeks?

Most MVCI resort docs give Marriott the right to unreserved weeks at 75-days prior to the check-in date, don't know how much that will bolster inventory but don't imagine it will substantially affect anything other than wait lists.
 
And I wonder how this will affect owners who want to trade back into their home resorts who are supposed to have priority.
Darlene
 
Where is Harbour Lake

As I understand the disclosure the resorts listed are those in the trust. It should be those resorts where Marriott plans to sell points out of it's inventory. Though where is Harbour Lake? They just finished a new building there last year. I don't see how it is possible that it is sold out.

Is this a bad omen for Harbour Lake?
 
A couple of lessons to take away from all of this.

One, the constant advice by many on TUG to buy only where you want to vacation most of the time turns out to be good advice . . . Two, it's clear that Marriott is acting in it's own interest. I don't know why they call this a club . . . It's also clear that they are only interested in new customers. Along with it it's obvious they're out to punish resale buyers. . .

Well said kjd.

I'm a little fearful on this one as it's anyone's guess as to how this "new" VC Club is going to do. Marriott has obviously put it's cards on the table and shown what they would like to do with the program. Afterall, it gives them the inventory control they so desire and the trust takes owners who enroll out of the equation as they cede their votes to Marriott. Once I got off my butt and started reading, it did not take long to see that this program is a dog for any owner who occupies their weeks with regularlity.

But my worry is what is going to happen over time as Marriott gets to pitch this VC program to new purchasers. These folks are afterall more likely to be averse to the old stoic TS model and in the heat of the sale can be convinced ( conned is a better word :( ) into joining the new program. I fear the momentum that this new program could build over time as presently Marriott has lots of inventory to shuffle around between both programs. But if the economy improves and Marriott can build a small but steady stream of sales directed into the new program, it's a matter of time before transparancy becomes an issue as group interests compete for inventory ( did I just say I distrust Marriott ? :eek: -- well, yes I did, but then again, I've had some dealings on the resale side which are definitely not of the Marriott ethos that we woudl expect ).

I could see Oceana Palms where we own becoming a bastion of the botique crowd which wants momentary stays and then it's off to another resort a few months later. Ocean Pointe is the other end of the spectrum, at least in the platinum season where around 80% lock off and spend the winter -- they obviously ain't going buy into the new program. I tend to ignore the preview folks who come on to our properties. I think we might all have to get engaged and at least educate these folks about the true dynamic lest they get entangled in the smiling sales piitch which will definitely sound great when you're still in that clueless early stage of TS ownership. This ain't quite Obamacare, but it sure does smell the same.

Dioxide Thanks for the link which clarifies this trust thing. I'm guessing that if one follows those statements in the future, we will be able to ascertain how many folks have joined the program at those 11 resorts -- at least an indirect way to gauge the water level.

Interesting times indeed. I'm heading to Spain in a week and I wasn't planning on spending a lot of time here educating myself about the new program, but my eyes are wide open now and I'll have a lot of questions for my GM and the sales team out there.

Barry

PS -- One last thought. Might we be at an "evolution" in the MVC ownership cycle? Afterall, there's lots of long term owners who have referred about all of the new purchasers that they could before the economy crashed. Some of the elders in these groups are either gonna turn their weeks over to kids/grandkids ( who might not be as MVC savvy ) or they're gonna sell their weeks. At a resort like Ocean Pointe, this could mean a gradual decrease in the winter demographic which locks off and spends weeks on resort & a chance for Marriott to alter the usage pattern via the new program.
 
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