Transferring a timeshare to an LLC to dispose of

[buzglyd]

You are missing the point, or at least missing my point.

If I call the HOA and tell them that I am not going to pay another penny to them for the maintenance fees on the timeshare I own. What do you think their response should be.. The other owners are right now on notice that they will be paying more next year

I think that in the case of defaults the HOA has to foreclose after a couple of years of non payment. which means legal fees and court costs and no maintenance fees for a while.

Im just saying a better approach would be to take it back and deal with it right away, either by renting, or selling.

I agree with you. I always encourage the deed in lieu approach. The problem of course, is how does anyone rent or sell a winter week in a place like Myrtle Beach?

Some places the dirt underneath the resort is worth more than the building and timeshare plan.

 

[ronparise]

I agree with you. I always encourage the deed in lieu approach. The problem of course, is how does anyone rent or sell a winter week in a place like Myrtle Beach?

Some places the dirt underneath the resort is worth more than the building and timeshare plan.

same as a ski resort in the summer.. Its a problem in need of a solution. I do know the blue week owners are tired of subsidizing the red week owners.

At least thats what Ive always thought. Now Im not so sure. It does make more sense to run away from a burning building than try to fight it with a garden hose. So (not to mix metaphors) Im going to stick my head in the sand and pretend everything is ok

I always thought that it made more sense for the HOA to actively manage the resort. Maybe it would be better to do nothing.. let the defaults happen. but dont foreclose, cut costs, defer maintenance and raise the fees on the folks that continue to pay, until the whole thing falls apart

 

[AwayWeGo]

Gemstone Resorts International. ("A Gemstone Is Forever.")

same as a ski resort in the summer.. Its a problem in need of a solution. I do know the blue week owners are tired of subsidizing the red week owners.

One of the major timeshare companies gobbles up the low-appeal weeks via foreclosures & deedbacks, adds the deeds to their points-based ownership trusts, & sells the points for big bux via razzle-dazzle & ballyhoo to vacationers lured in by offers of freebies.

Sure, the points buyers think they'll be luxury vacationing in prime time at dream locations, even if the offseason dogs & cats are all that's left when the points owners get round to making points-based reservations. Live & learn.

Meanwhile, the scheme may not be customer friendly, but it is 1 way of addressing the dog week & mud week problem.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County) Virginia, USA.​

 

[bogey21]

You can use a site like Legal Zoom, and they will walk you right through it.

About 10 years ago I did a will using Legal Zoom at a cost, I think, of something like $39. A number of years later I had a lawyer friend look it over. He told me it was a quality piece of work and that there would be no question as to its validity here in Texas.

George

 

[VegasBella]

That much being very clearly stated, I would very much like to hear the logic behind the apparent (and apparently recurrent) belief that any HOA anywhere somehow has any responsibility or obligation to "take back" any timeshare ownership that someone previously voluntarily purchased entirely of their own free will (...and not purchased from the "inflexible" HOA in the first place, it is both critically important and highly relevant to note).
Why would you (or anyone else willing to chime in) believe that any HOA anywhere should just happily accept someone else's freely chosen personal responsibility?

I cannot even begin to grasp the logic. If you are willing to attempt to explain the logic behind that particular thought process, I am definitely all ears.

I did NOT say that HOAs should take back any timeshare ownership. What I said was this:

"I don't think anyone should have to be burdened by timeshare ownerships they don't want so long as they've made a good faith effort to unload them in ways that are less drastic."
and
"I think the case that Viking Ships harm other owners is a hard case to be made unless the blame is equally shared by inflexible HOAs."

The point I was making about inflexible HOAs is in regards to having some good options for owners who no longer want their timeshares. Those options can include:
- deed backs with a fee or without a fee
- assistance in selling/ giving away the ownership
- assistance in renting out the ownership
- changing MF so that they better reflect each ownerships cost and value (eg prime weeks have higher MF than off-season weeks)
- offer MF payment plans or partial payments without additional fees

The HOA is not "responsible" for the situation but they must clean it up. It's just like how the HOA needs to take care of the landscaping and pests and repairs and weather damage etc. This isn't about doing a favor for the original owner. This is about fixing a problem. I was on an HOA board (for homes not timeshares, but it's relevant) during the crash. We understood that it wasn't our fault that some homes in our neighborhood were going into foreclosure etc. But we had to do something about it. We chose to lower the HOA fees, cut costs here and there, stop charging late fees, undo the rule that prohibited multiple "for sale" signs, and set up a system so that HOA dues got paid by the banks during foreclosure immediately rather than having to wait for a new owner... and we did other things to help people out so that our neighborhood could get through the economic situation without suffering enormous loss. There are things HOAs can do to limit the damage of owners who consider using Viking Ships... if they're willing to think creatively and try to problem solve rather than simply assign blame and sit back in moral judgement.

 

[LannyPC]

I'm looking for an approach to rid myself of several timeshares....
I was going to create Limited Liability Company - LLC (not sure what state is best for this), with myself as the sole proprietor...
Transfer the deeds for the 3 timeshares to the LLC.

Ignore the future requests for payment for maintenance and let the timeshare companies sue the LLC for non-payment.

Why go through the expense and rigours of creating an LLC? Why not just default on what you have rather than pay to set up an LLC?

BTW, I'm not recommending defaulting. It's just a rhetorical question.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Why go through the expense and rigours of creating an LLC? Why not just default on what you have rather than pay to set up an LLC?

BTW, I'm not recommending defaulting. It's just a rhetorical question.

To protect personal credit and also other assets that might be at risk if there is a judgement.

 

[ronparise]

I did NOT say that HOAs should take back any timeshare ownership. What I said was this:

"I don't think anyone should have to be burdened by timeshare ownerships they don't want so long as they've made a good faith effort to unload them in ways that are less drastic."
and
"I think the case that Viking Ships harm other owners is a hard case to be made unless the blame is equally shared by inflexible HOAs."

The point I was making about inflexible HOAs is in regards to having some good options for owners who no longer want their timeshares. Those options can include:
- deed backs with a fee or without a fee
- assistance in selling/ giving away the ownership
- assistance in renting out the ownership
- changing MF so that they better reflect each ownerships cost and value (eg prime weeks have higher MF than off-season weeks)
- offer MF payment plans or partial payments without additional fees

The HOA is not "responsible" for the situation but they must clean it up. It's just like how the HOA needs to take care of the landscaping and pests and repairs and weather damage etc. This isn't about doing a favor for the original owner. This is about fixing a problem. I was on an HOA board (for homes not timeshares, but it's relevant) during the crash. We understood that it wasn't our fault that some homes in our neighborhood were going into foreclosure etc. But we had to do something about it. We chose to lower the HOA fees, cut costs here and there, stop charging late fees, undo the rule that prohibited multiple "for sale" signs, and set up a system so that HOA dues got paid by the banks during foreclosure immediately rather than having to wait for a new owner... and we did other things to help people out so that our neighborhood could get through the economic situation without suffering enormous loss. There are things HOAs can do to limit the damage of owners who consider using Viking Ships... if they're willing to think creatively and try to problem solve rather than simply assign blame and sit back in moral judgement.

....well said

 

[Saintsfanfl]

The problem is that unlike a neighborhood HOA most timeshare HOA's are not governed by people that really care about the owners. The owner's that do care often times do not have the time or do not care quite enough to get involved in their timeshare HOA. It is not practical for a single week owner to pay $1k plus in travel expenses just to show up to the HOA annual meeting. On the flip side I only have to walk a few hundred feet to go to my neighborhood annual meeting. It is easy to compare the two on paper but in reality it is not apples to apples.

 

[am1]

The problem is that unlike a neighborhood HOA most timeshare HOA's are not governed by people that really care about the owners. The owner's that do care often times do not have the time or do not care quite enough to get involved in their timeshare HOA. It is not practical for a single week owner to pay $1k plus in travel expenses just to show up to the HOA annual meeting. On the flip side I only have to walk a few hundred feet to go to my neighborhood annual meeting. It is easy to compare the two on paper but in reality it is not apples to apples.

Well said as well.

 

[DeniseM]

I agree -

Homeowners have a pig's commitment to breakfast.

Timeshare owners have a chicken's commitment to breakfast.

 

[ronparise]

The problem is that unlike a neighborhood HOA most timeshare HOA's are not governed by people that really care about the owners. The owner's that do care often times do not have the time or do not care quite enough to get involved in their timeshare HOA. It is not practical for a single week owner to pay $1k plus in travel expenses just to show up to the HOA annual meeting. On the flip side I only have to walk a few hundred feet to go to my neighborhood annual meeting. It is easy to compare the two on paper but in reality it is not apples to apples.

Perhaps not but that doesn't mean that the hoa board doesn't have the responsibility to try manage their way through problems that may arise

The open question is; are defaults and Viking ships a problem for your associatin or not And if yes, is refusing to take back unwanted worthless deeds the right thing to do or not

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Perhaps not but that doesn't mean that the hoa board doesn't have the responsibility to try manage their way through problems that may arise

The open question is; are defaults and Viking ships a problem for your associatin or not And if yes, is refusing to take back unwanted worthless deeds the right thing to do or not

I agree they should manage it and minimize the expense to the owners. In reality they do not care and any expense is passed on to the owners anyway so they have little to no motivation to improve the situation.

 

[DeniseM]

Saintsfanfl - Probably, some do not care, but I think at some of the older resorts, with an aging ownership and perhaps ill-equipped BOD, they probably don't have the infrastructure in place for a deedback program, and there may be no one to lead the charge to get it done.

Sometimes the BOD's are made up of people who have been owners for years, but have no particular business background that equips them for implementing change.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Saintsfanfl - Probably, some do not care, but I think at some of the older resorts, with an aging ownership and perhaps ill-equipped BOD, they probably don't have the infrastructure in place for a deedback program, and there may be no one to lead the charge to get it done.

Sometimes the BOD's are made up of people who have been owners for years, but have no particular business background that equips them for implementing change.

That sounds like a really bad cop out. Are they not already handling the bad debt and foreclosures? You have to task or hire the person to lead the charge. Do they not have a resort or office manager? What infrastructure would they need besides hiring someone to handle the closing? Why can't they they hire someone like LT to handle the deedback transfers?

I suppose doing nothing and hiring a collection agency is "easier" than taking deedbacks and trying to rent out and resell but therein lies the problem. Being too clueless or lazy is not an excuse for inaction and it only leads to a greater expense down the road.

 

[DeniseM]

That sounds like a really bad cop out. Are they not already handling the bad debt and foreclosures? You have to task or hire the person to lead the charge. Do they not have a resort or office manager? What infrastructure would they need besides hiring someone to handle the closing? Why can't they they hire someone like LT to handle the deedback transfers?

I suppose doing nothing and hiring a collection agency is "easier" than taking deedbacks and trying to rent out and resell but therein lies the problem. Being too clueless or lazy is not an excuse for inaction and it only leads to a greater expense down the road.

I didn't say it was a "good" reason, or that it was OK - but I do think this is happening at small stand alone resorts where they just keep doing what they have always done.

I always read the Bio's that resorts send out for elections, and often the incumbents are elderly folks who have been on the board for years. That does not bode well for "change."

I think it will take legislation to force all resorts to take action.

 

[ronparise]

I agree they should manage it and minimize the expense to the owners. In reality they do not care and any expense is passed on to the owners anyway so they have little to no motivation to improve the situation.

I'm coming to the same conclusion. Clearly the defaulting owners don't care and if you are right the rest of the owners don't care either. The hoa adds up the bills and divides by the number of owners that they hope will pay and set the mf accordingly. We don't need a board of directors. A guy with a calculator will do the trick

Kinda takes away the moral argument that says I shouldn't just walk away from my timeshare obligations because it screws the rest of the owners. What I'm hearing here is that the rest of the owners don't care

 

[TUGBrian]

im sure every owner that gets a higher bill each year to cover the delinquencies cares....

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Benefit of RTU in Mexico - sort of

Since almost all Mexican resorts are RTU and many are RTU float weeks - I think the developers generally resell delinquent weeks against prime winter time .

IMO -As long as they keep up maintenance levels and new sales - existing owners do not suffer from the issue of MF going up due to weeks not being paid .

****

The flip side is they built to peak winter capacity ( in pesos ) and so there are so many open non winter weeks that resale for more than $1 and rental opportunities are generally very very limited .

( except for the 4 Mexican Holiday weeks - which are generally sold as unique contracts )

.

 

[ronparise]

im sure every owner that gets a higher bill each year to cover the delinquencies cares....

You would think. But the point being made here is that they really dont care or they would see the crisis coming and try to do something about it.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

im sure every owner that gets a higher bill each year to cover the delinquencies cares....

They care about their specific bill only and that is where it ends. That is probably over 99% of all timeshare owners.

I own at an independent that hires a good manager and staff. I do not believe they advertise that they take deedbacks but they probably do. They are very aggressive with foreclosures and rentals and make more than enough to cover all of the bad debt and then some. They even pay rental commission to the staff. All it takes is hiring a really good manager. Definitely not the "club" companies that so many old timeshares hire.

 

[TUGBrian]

id gander the vast majority are not aware of the delinquency cost passed on to them in the form of higher MF.

owners have just been ingrained with the fact that MF increases are "par for the course" for so many years.

 

[ronparise]

id gander the vast majority are not aware of the delinquency cost passed on to them in the form of higher MF.

owners have just been ingrained with the fact that MF increases are "par for the course" for so many years.

I own at a resort where over 17% of the intervals are "non performing" or delinquent. But mf does not go up as a result. Like at saintsfanfl's resort most owners probably have no idea of what's going on because management does a good job with their rental program

 

[raygo123]

I own at a resort where over 17% of the intervals are "non performing" or delinquent. But mf does not go up as a result. Like at saintsfanfl's resort most owners probably have no idea of what's going on because management does a good job with their rental program

I'm paying $60 per year for bad debt, according. To the last CWA budget. Ron, do you know if there are agreements with the different HOAs Wyndham manages to rent delinquent accounts? Also, if so, is the income shown somewhere?

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[birddog31]

I own at a resort where over 17% of the intervals are "non performing" or delinquent. But mf does not go up as a result. Like at saintsfanfl's resort most owners probably have no idea of what's going on because management does a good job with their rental program

How and where do you get that information?

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