Top researchers are calling for a real investigation into origin of covid-19

[cman]

1) I quoted from the Financial times, so I will quote it again if you did not read it:
"New rules were put in place in 2017 but similar experiments, often with US funding, had continued after the ban at laboratories around the world, including at the facility now at the centre of the coronavirus origins debate: the Wuhan Institute of Virology. A multinational group of 15 scientists working at the Wuhan Institute received $600,000 of US public funds between 2015 and 2020 to investigate whether bat coronaviruses posed a risk to humans, Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told a US Senate hearing this week. As part of the work, the team — including the renowned Chinese virologist Shi Zhengli, known as China’s “batwoman” — spliced together two different coronaviruses, creating a more dangerous version, which they found had the potential to infect humans, according to a 2015 paper the scientists published in the journal Nature."

2) It seems it never occurred to you that the Chinese were just playing the game when they received the money and they were disclosing publicly what they knew would be acceptable? I think we are playing semantics. I say they gave money to an institute that was performing gain of function research. You say they did not give it to them for that specific purpose. While that may be true, it does not mean that the money was not used for that kind of research, there was no Chinese wall between their different projects and it makes many people sick to their stomach to know some of their taxpayer money might have been used that way. I personally do not think Dr Fauci is going to recover from this, I would not be surprised to see him stepping down for "personal" reasons before the end of the year.

3) 150,000 dollars per year go much further in China than in the US. I do not even think the amount is that important and we still do not know why they gave 14 million dollars to Peter Daszak instead of giving the money directly to the US universities.

4) President Biden just announced this new investigation following the public pressure. Did you not know that Peter Daszak was part of the WHO investigation or we are playing games?

WHO inspector has conflict of interest in Wuhan COVID probe: Prominent biologist | Taiwan News | 2021-02-04 12:50:00

Richard Ebright says Peter Daszak has conflict of interest in WHO and Lancet investigations of Wuhan outbreak | 2021-02-04 12:50:00

www.taiwannews.com.tw

Have a good night, not wasting any more time on this with you.

Sounds like you've got your mind made up. Good night.

 

[exco]

The short answer to why the NIH had the money to give to the Wuhan Lab, is because congress appropriated the funding to them.

Way back during the Bush administration Asia was identified as the likely source of a pandemic and the US government implemented an extensive program to train their scientist and public health officials to respond to and contain the threat. We helped train their scientests and even wrote their pandemic playbooks. We also helped them set up virus hunting programs that took samples from the animal populations that were sent to various labs to be analyzed for unknown viruses. The Wuhan lab was one of many of such labs all throughout Asia.

The grant in question was only $600K for 5 years ($133K/yr). That's not much. DOD and CDC spend a heck of a lot more on pandemic preparedness than NIH. My guess is after this thing is over, we'll be investing a lot more.

I am not going to argue with you about the amount US gave to the Wuhan Lab. You can argue that with the reporters.

According to you, our congress appropriated the funding to the Wuhan Lab that had safety breaches:
"In 2018, Diplomats Warned of Risky Coronavirus Experiments in a Wuhan Lab. No One Listened.
After seeing a risky lab, they wrote a cable warning to Washington. But it was ignored."

In 2018, Diplomats Warned of Risky Coronavirus Experiments in a Wuhan Lab. No One Listened.

After seeing a risky lab, they wrote a cable warning to Washington. But it was ignored.

www.politico.com

Do you agree NIH and other government agencies should have funded the Wuhan Lab in China that was not considered as an "ally" of the US?

 

[Bunk]

[ DELETED: political ]

​

 

[bluehende]

Here's the link to abstract for the grant proposal. It's just a survailance study. https://reporter.nih.gov/project-details/9819304#details



Not quite. The NIH awarded the grant. Dr. Fauci is not the director of the NIH. He's the NIAID Director. Not sure why that matters, because there were no gain of function provisions in the grant in the first place.



From the New York Times: President Biden ordered U.S. intelligence agencies on Wednesday to investigate the origins of the coronavirus...

So now I've provided the evidence. Just read the grant proposal. Do you see any "gain of function" provisions? It's a $600K, 5 year grant ($133K/year). Not sure if you've ever worked in a lab before, but you're not doing much research on $133K per year. Just not gonna happen.

I'd just advise you to consider your sources, their motives and your own personal biases before passing on information. There's a lot of disinformation out there and we're all succeptable to it.

The cost to keep my lab going for two people was close to 1 million a year. And that was in 2005.

 

[Yellowfin]

The short answer to why the NIH had the money to give to the Wuhan Lab, is because congress appropriated the funding to them.

Way back during the Bush administration Asia was identified as the likely source of a pandemic and the US government implemented an extensive program to train their scientist and public health officials to respond to and contain the threat. We helped train their scientests and even wrote their pandemic playbooks. We also helped them set up virus hunting programs that took samples from the animal populations that were sent to various labs to be analyzed for unknown viruses. The Wuhan lab was one of many of such labs all throughout Asia.

The grant in question was only $600K for 5 years ($133K/yr). That's not much. DOD and CDC spend a heck of a lot more on pandemic preparedness than NIH. My guess is after this thing is over, we'll be investing a lot more.

Are you blaming the congress? Don't you think that the NIH requested the funds for those projects in the first place?

Now it is becoming clear to me that a number of high profile scientists promoted the gain of function research , they downplayed the risks and exaggerated the potential benefits. I am wondering how many other viruses have been modified in the lab and how the world would look like if they are ever released (accidentally or not).

 

[nerodog]

I don't think we'll ever know the origin of this virus. It took 10+ years to get concensus on the origins of the 2003 SARS virus and it was done with the cooperation of the Chinese government. This time is different. I don't see China beeing open and transparent to an investigation that has the slightest chance of implicating the Wuhan lab as the source of this pandemic. Before they let that happen, they would "dissapear" everyone that ever worked there.

If this happens, then we have the answer. It originated in a lab. China is holding back information for a reason.

 

[Yellowfin]

deleted

 

[exco]

1) I quoted from the Financial times, so I will quote it again if you did not read it:
"New rules were put in place in 2017 but similar experiments, often with US funding, had continued after the ban at laboratories around the world, including at the facility now at the centre of the coronavirus origins debate: the Wuhan Institute of Virology. A multinational group of 15 scientists working at the Wuhan Institute received $600,000 of US public funds between 2015 and 2020 to investigate whether bat coronaviruses posed a risk to humans, Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told a US Senate hearing this week. As part of the work, the team — including the renowned Chinese virologist Shi Zhengli, known as China’s “batwoman” — spliced together two different coronaviruses, creating a more dangerous version, which they found had the potential to infect humans, according to a 2015 paper the scientists published in the journal Nature."

2) It seems it never occurred to you that the Chinese were just playing the game when they received the money and they were disclosing publicly what they knew would be acceptable? I think we are playing semantics. I say they gave money to an institute that was performing gain of function research. You say they did not give it to them for that specific purpose. While that may be true, it does not mean that the money was not used for that kind of research, there was no Chinese wall between their different projects and it makes many people sick to their stomach to know some of their taxpayer money might have been used that way. I personally do not think Dr Fauci is going to recover from this, I would not be surprised to see him stepping down for "personal" reasons before the end of the year.

3) 150,000 dollars per year go much further in China than in the US. I do not even think the amount is that important and we still do not know why they gave 14 million dollars to Peter Daszak instead of giving the money directly to the US universities.

4) President Biden just announced this new investigation following the public pressure. Did you not know that Peter Daszak was part of the WHO investigation or we are playing games?

WHO inspector has conflict of interest in Wuhan COVID probe: Prominent biologist | Taiwan News | 2021-02-04 12:50:00

Richard Ebright says Peter Daszak has conflict of interest in WHO and Lancet investigations of Wuhan outbreak | 2021-02-04 12:50:00

www.taiwannews.com.tw

Have a good night, not wasting any more time on this with you.

I probably should have listened to you and not to waste my time in this thread. But I cannot help trying to persuade others.

I am curious about how the COVID origin, and wonder why Dr. Fauci is no longer convinced that the Covid-19 pandemic originated naturally.

Analysis: Why is Anthony Fauci hedging on the origins of the coronavirus?

Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, admitted earlier this month that he is no longer convinced that the Covid-19 pandemic originated naturally.

www.cnn.com

But now I focus why US (either NIH, other government agencies, or foundations funded WHO) could give money to the Wuhan lab directly or indirectly to a communist's government that is not our ally and does treat its own people right (e.g. human rights violation).

There are many US regulations about sharing aerospace, and computer science to guard our national security and our technology investments. But it appeared there was no national security rules about virology yet. Perhaps that was why NIH could have funded a Chinses "Communist " government lab.

Something has to be changed in our government funding toward these countries that we have unresolved concerns, especially when US deficit is increasing.

 

[Maple_Leaf]

At the national and international level it appears Americans are assigned opinions by their preferred information gatekeepers. Each gatekeeper encourages their preferred opinions and suppresses the others. Investigative reporting beyond the local level is no longer a thing Americans do, like darning socks. It has been replaced by Fake News supporting gatekeeper opinions and media censorship suppressing conflicting opinions. When the subject is bigger than the local level, Americans frequently end up like our friend Flounder here:

 

[exco]

Under the DISGUISE of "health":
I wish our congress can have a hearing with Peter Daszak, president of the research organization EcoHealth Alliance.
And examine the funding from his organization and WHO to the Wuhan lab in China.

Taiwan was more prepared for the coronavirus than any other country, but the WHO puts politics first.

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/taiwan-who-coronavirus-china/\\

I also wonder if NIH/Dr. Fauci, EcoHealth, or any foundations funded the research in Taiwan that had a lot knowledge about SAR, and COVID,
especially about how to manage/control epidemics in a democratic way. I wished Sen. John Kennedy (R-La.) asked Dr. Fauci why he chose to fund China, but not Taiwan.

A year ago, I heard "The WHO Ignores Taiwan. The World Pays the Price".

Here's What Taiwan Told the WHO at the Start of the Virus Outbreak

Debate is raging over an email the tiny island sent in the critical early days of the health crisis

time.com

Now after we learned WHO channeled the fund to the Wuhan lab, I hope US government and Bill Gates foundation will prevent
how WHO funds US donations to a country that is not an "ally" of the US for risky disease experiments.
‘Heinous!’: Coronavirus researcher shut down for Wuhan-lab link slams new funding restrictions (nature.com)

Coronavirus researcher shut down for Wuhan-lab links vents frustrations

Peter Daszak, president of EcoHealth Alliance, says he has been caught in political crosshairs over his partnership with a virology lab in China.

www.nature.com

Funding to countries that we have unresolved concerns must be restricted by law.

 

[exco]

An epidemic of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) began in Foshan municipality, Guangdong Province, China, in November 2002.
"Research evidence suggests that SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV originated in bats, and it is likely that SARS-CoV-2 did as well."
(Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) is a highly transmissible and pathogenic coronavirus that emerged in late 2019 and has caused a pandemic of acute respiratory disease, named ‘coronavirus disease 2019’ (COVID-19)).

COVID-19, MERS & SARS

NIAID COVID-19 efforts build on earlier research on severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) and Middle East Respiratory syndrome (MERS).

www.niaid.nih.gov

The Wuhan lab is located in the Hubei Province. I heard the Wuhan lab director Shi Zhengli (e.g. the Bat Woman) has identified dozens of deadly SARS-like viruses in bat caves in the Guangdong and Guangxi Provinces, and put them in her lab for research.

If you google the Chinese provinces Guangdong/Guangxi and Hubei distance in the maps, maybe you would wonder or question how any Chinese people got COVID-19 in the Hubei markets naturally.

Also, no one can find the animal that gave people covid-19

No one can find the animal that gave people covid-19

Here’s your guide to the WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus.

www.technologyreview.com

All open mind persons and scientists should demand investigation into origin of covid-19 and try to prevent our government/WHO/foundations funding any labs in China or anywhere that conduct risky experiments.

 

[Yellowfin]

Help me understand why the "plot is thickening".

email from Kristian G. Anderson to Anthony Fauci on January 31, 2020 at 10:32PM:
"... one has to look really closely at all the sequences to see that some of the features (potentially) look engineered [...] I should mention that after discussions earlier today, Eddie, Bob, Mike, and myself all find the genome inconsistent with expectations from evolutionary theory."

Attached was a PDF titled "Baric, Shi et al - Nature medicine - SARS Gain of function.pdf" referring to Dr. Ralph Baric, a US-based virologist who worked with the Wuhan Institute of Virology under Dr. Shi Zhengly ("Bat lady") known for engineering bat coronaviruses to better-infect humans.

email from Anthony Fauci to Hugh Auchincloss (his deputy) two hours later:
"Hugh, it is essential that we speak this AM. Keep your cell phone on [...] Read this paper as I will forward to you now. You will have tasks today that must be done. Thanks, Tony"

Would you not be curious to know what were the tasks and why the urgency? Was Anthony Fauci personally concerned if the virus did escape the Wuhan lab? Why?

 

[Old Hickory]

At the national and international level it appears Americans are assigned opinions by their preferred information gatekeepers. Each gatekeeper encourages their preferred opinions and suppresses the others. Investigative reporting beyond the local level is no longer a thing Americans do, like darning socks. It has been replaced by Fake News supporting gatekeeper opinions and media censorship suppressing conflicting opinions. When the subject is bigger than the local level, Americans frequently end up like our friend Flounder here:

I'm glad you're here speaking the truth. Most of my fellow Americans are unable to filter the persuasion and propaganda used in our everyday news media.

Nothing will come from any kind of investigation into the source of C-19. Nothing. The Swamp is back in charge and will make this go away.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I'm glad you're here speaking the truth. Most of my fellow Americans are unable to filter the persuasion and propaganda used in our everyday news media.

Nothing will come from any kind of investigation into the source of C-19. Nothing. The Swamp is back in charge and will make this go away.

Absolutely agree. I say very little on these threads because I am shouted down. If we were teenagers, it would be called bullying. But as adults, we are supposed to not have our feelings hurt. I know one lady who won't even post on TUG anymore because she was shouted down. She will like a comment, but she won't post. She is a longtime TUGger.

 

[MrockStar]

The truth about all this is slowly seeing the light of day. We should all embrace it and try to learn from it going forward. As Americans we owe it to our selves our, our kids and each other.

 

[Old Hickory]

The truth about all this is slowly seeing the light of day. We should all embrace it and try to learn from it going forward. As Americans we owe it to our selves our, our kids and each other.

The truth is an elusive thing. Do you know where to look for it? I thought the Mueller Report might settle people's opinions but it did not. And I thought it was a real investigation.

 

[DeniseM]

CLOSED: POLITICAL