Top researchers are calling for a real investigation into origin of covid-19

[Roger830]

A letter in the journal Science by 18 prominent biologists calls for a real investigation.
WHO study was not scientific, lab escape cannot be ruled out.

Top researchers are calling for a real investigation into the origin of covid-19

A group of prominent biologists say there needs to be a “safe space” for asking whether the coronavirus came out of a lab.

www.technologyreview.com

 

[Maple_Leaf]

The "wet markets" narrative is crumbling, no longer credible. Scientists with conflicting interests were used as support by Facebook and Twitter in 2020 to cancel those who encouraged investigation into a possible Wuhan lab origin. Some of these "conspiracy theorists" are starting to become credible to our media gatekeepers, for what that's worth at this point.

Nicholas Wade:

The origin of COVID: Did people or nature open Pandora’s box at Wuhan?

If the case that SARS2 originated in a lab is so substantial, why isn’t this more widely known? As is now obvious, there are many people who have reason not to talk about it.

thebulletin.org

 

[Cornell]

The "wet markets" narrative is crumbling, no longer credible. Scientists with conflicting interests were used as support by Facebook and Twitter in 2020 to cancel those who encouraged investigation into a possible Wuhan lab origin. Some of these "conspiracy theorists" are starting to become credible to our media gatekeepers, for what that's worth at this point.

Nicholas Wade:

The origin of COVID: Did people or nature open Pandora’s box at Wuhan?

If the case that SARS2 originated in a lab is so substantial, why isn’t this more widely known? As is now obvious, there are many people who have reason not to talk about it.

thebulletin.org

Yup ... this entire topic is starting to smell

Facebook Ends Ban on Posts Asserting Covid-19 Was Man-Made

Facebook has ended its ban on posts asserting Covid-19 was man-made or manufactured, reflecting a deepening debate over the origins of the pandemic.

www.wsj.com

 

[Cornell]

Opinion | The Virus Lab Theory’s New Credibility

The evidence catches up to Fauci and other Wuhan Covid deniers.

www.wsj.com

 

[Roger830]

When there is an unknown or a prediction of the future, rather than have an opinion, I prefer to think in terms of probability.

I don't have the ability to set odds like Jimmy the Greek, so I think of how I would bet if someone put a gun to my head.

Last year if someone said to me you have to bet $10,000 on the origin of covid, either transferred from an animal or a leak from a lab where the bats and virus experimentation was present, it was obvious to me that the safest bet was a lab leak. It's likely the virus came from the lab. Easy money.

 

[Yellowfin]

The plot is thickening. Dr Fauci did support the gain of function research (despite claiming otherwise few days ago). Gain of function is medical research which alters an organism or disease in a way that increases pathogenesis, transmissibility to humans. Maybe this is why he was completely unsupportive of the theory that the Covid 19 virus originated from the Wuhan lab?

Fauci Argued Benefits of Gain-of-Function Research Outweighed Pandemic Risk in 2012 Paper

Fauci Argued Benefits of Gain-of-Function Research Outweighed Pandemic Risk in 2012 Paper | National Review

Fauci argued a pandemic was more likely to occur naturally than through gain-of-function research.

www.nationalreview.com

 

[Yellowfin]

 

[Yellowfin]

Yup ... this entire topic is starting to smell

Facebook Ends Ban on Posts Asserting Covid-19 Was Man-Made

Facebook has ended its ban on posts asserting Covid-19 was man-made or manufactured, reflecting a deepening debate over the origins of the pandemic.

www.wsj.com

FB reversing this policy shows that their "facts" are a little bit grey. I never understood why it was so important for them to label it "false", especially when they did not have all the facts? I would be curious to know how this was coordinated with the mainstream and the social media organizations.

 

[Yellowfin]

Probe into COVID found almost no evidence supporting natural origin: Source

 

[cman]

Reposted.

 

[cman]

The plot is thickening. Dr Fauci did support the gain of function research (despite claiming otherwise few days ago).

Help me understand why the "plot is thickening". I can't find a single souce where Dr. Fauci ever claimed that he did not support gain of function research. Not a single one. All I see is his response to the senate committe, when asked about a specific grant, he replied that the $600K grant was not for "gain of function research".

I only ask because I would find such a comment from him as odd. Gain of function research is done and funded by the CDC, NIH, NIAID, DOD and several other government agencies. So when did Dr. Fauci make the claim you're attibuting to him? If you can provide a link, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Yellowfin]

It seems they have been playing with Mother Nature and we all pay the price... if you believe in the Wuhan lab theory.

 

[cman]

I don't think we'll ever know the origin of this virus. It took 10+ years to get concensus on the origins of the 2003 SARS virus and it was done with the cooperation of the Chinese government. This time is different. I don't see China beeing open and transparent to an investigation that has the slightest chance of implicating the Wuhan lab as the source of this pandemic. Before they let that happen, they would "dissapear" everyone that ever worked there.

 

[cman]

It seems they have been playing with Mother Nature and we all pay the price... if you believe in the Wuhan lab theory.

You stated, "Dr Fauci did support the gain of function research (despite claiming otherwise few days ago)."

In the video you posted, he clearly states, "The NIH didn't fund gain of function research at the Wuhan Lab". That's a verifiable fact. The grant in question had nothing to do with gain of function.

Several agencies in the US government fund and perform this research all over the world. That's why when I saw the claim you attributed to him, it didn't ring true. With the exception of DOD, you can literally go to their websites and read the grant proposals.

So, here's what we know;

1) The US government did not fund "gain of function" research at the Wuhan Lab.

2) The $600K grant in quesiton, had nothing to do with "gain of function research".

3) Dr. Fauci NEVER claimed he didn't support gain of function research. That's just a false claim.

The three points I listed above are easily verified with a simple google search. I wonder why I see so many Facebook/Twitter posts that repeat the same false information being spread by well meaning people such as yourself. What's the motivation of the sources of these baseless claims?

 

[Yellowfin]

I posted the video about Dr Fauci, you just have to watch it.

For years Dr Fauci's institute has given millions of dollars to Peter Daszak who has has been involved in gain of function research as he admits in this video at 29:52. This guy funded projects at the Wuhan institute where scientists also worked in gain of function research. I find all this pretty scary and it stinks.


29:52 “coronaviruses are pretty good… you can manipulate them in the lab pretty easily… the spiked proteins drive a lot about what happens."

 

[Yellowfin]

In the video you posted, he clearly states, "The NIH didn't fund gain of function research at the Wuhan Lab". That's a verifiable fact. The grant in question had nothing to do with gain of function.

You seem to be more sure than Dr Fauci himself

 

[exco]

"Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, a professor at Stanford University Medical School, on Tuesday accused Dr. Anthony Fauci of changing his Wuhan lab funding story.

On Tuesday, Fauci appeared before the House Appropriations Committee and spoke about his involvement in SARS research: "We had a big scare with SARS CoV-1 back in 2000 to 2003, where that particular virus, unquestionably, went from a bat to an intermediate host—It would have been almost a dereliction of duty if we didn't study," he said."

Read more at:
Dr. Fauci Keeps Changing His Wuhan Lab Funding Story, Jay Battacharya Tells Laura Ingraham (newsweek.com)

Dr. Fauci Keeps Changing His Wuhan Lab Funding Story, Jay Battacharya Says

Bhattacharya said Fauci has changed his story so many times.

www.newsweek.com

 

[cman]

You seem to be more sure than Dr Fauci himself

Didn't see anything in that video that was inconsistent with his previous comments. The facts still remain;

1) The US did not fund any "gain of function" research at the Wuhan lab. This is readily available via a simple Google search. It just didn't happen.

2) If I'm wrong and have overlooked something, please provide credible and verifiable information to the contrary. Hell, it doesn't even have to be verifiable, I'll verify it myself.

3) Why would these sources try to spread this false narrative? What is their pourpose?

Choose your sources carefully. There's a lot of disinformation out there. Consider the credentials of the reporting organization, as well as the reporter. You also have to ascertain the motive of those that push this type of disinformation. Use your critical thinking skills, and when you encounter sources that publish such blatant misinformation, don't allow them to use YOU to spread their falsehoods.

 

[Yellowfin]

Didn't see anything in that video that was inconsistent with his previous comments. The facts still remain;

1) The US did not fund any "gain of function" research at the Wuhan lab. This is readily available via a simple Google search. It just didn't happen.

2) If I'm wrong and have overlooked something, please provide credible and verifiable information to the contrary. Hell, it doesn't even have to be verifiable, I'll verify it myself.

3) Why would these sources try to spread this false narrative? What is their pourpose?

Choose your sources carefully. There's a lot of disinformation out there. Consider the credentials of the reporting organization, as well as the reporter. You also have to ascertain the motive of those that push this type of disinformation. Use your critical thinking skills, and when you encounter sources that publish such blatant misinformation, don't allow them to use YOU to spread their falsehoods.

I can say the same about you. You provide zero absolutely zero evidence for what you say. You seem to be very unsuspecting, which may be a fine quality in many respects but that carries the burden too if you are wrong (and I think you are)

Dr Fauci gives money to a guy who is involved in gain of function research. Wuhan is involved in gain of function research. The guy gives money to Wuhan. All good according to you, nothing to see there. You googled it and YOU did not find anything... look harder.

Who is appointed to investigate the origins of the virus? The same guy who gave money to Wuhan and who was involved in gain of function research. What a beautiful coincidence, it seems there is a shortage of competent people in this world, they had to hire Peter Daszak !

Knock it off with the cheap accusations!

www.ft.com/content/7fef48f1-88a4-48f7-8263-c50384643b7f


according to the Financial Times:

"New rules were put in place in 2017 but similar experiments, often with US funding, had continued after the ban at laboratories around the world, including at the facility now at the centre of the coronavirus origins debate: the Wuhan Institute of Virology. A multinational group of 15 scientists working at the Wuhan Institute received $600,000 of US public funds between 2015 and 2020 to investigate whether bat coronaviruses posed a risk to humans, Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told a US Senate hearing this week. As part of the work, the team — including the renowned Chinese virologist Shi Zhengli, known as China’s “batwoman” — spliced together two different coronaviruses, creating a more dangerous version, which they found had the potential to infect humans, according to a 2015 paper the scientists published in the journal Nature."

 

[exco]

My post is not about Dr. Fauci. I just wondered while many of our universities and research centers needed funding, NIH had money to give to this Wuhan Lab.

Also why our congress representatives and us did not know about the funding until last year (e.g. pandemic) to China?
Didn't NIH/or any foundations worry about bioweapon or bioterrorism, and choose to fund any country research centers/labs that we should not trust totally?

There are many other findings using our tax money to foreign countries, and we (the tax payers) had no say about how we wanted our tax dollars to be spent in foreign countries.

 

[cman]

Dr. Fauci Keeps Changing His Wuhan Lab Funding Story, Jay Battacharya Tells Laura Ingraham (newsweek.com)

Dr. Fauci Keeps Changing His Wuhan Lab Funding Story, Jay Battacharya Says

Bhattacharya said Fauci has changed his story so many times.

www.newsweek.com

But my post is not about Dr. Fauci. I just wondered while many of our universities and research centers needed funding, while NIH had money to give to this Wuhan Lab.

Also why our congress representatives and us did not know about the funding until last year (e.g. pandemic) to China?
Didn't NIH/or any foundations worry about bioweapon or bioterrorism, and not funding to any country who we cannot trust?

There are many other fundings using our tax money to foreign countries, and we (the tax payers) had no say about how we wanted our tax dollars to be spent in foreign countries.

Dr. Fauci "never" changed his story about the Wuhan Lab funding. Never. He testified that the $600K grant to the Wuhan lab, had no provision for "gain of function" research. He is 100% correct. It didn't.

The statement in the article ; "I mean he told Rand Paul that he didn't fund gain of function research...". (Dr. Fauci never said this. His comments were in reference to a specific grant that did not include provisions for GOF research.)

As for your question as to why the US is sending money to Wuhan, it's something we've been doing for a while and recently ramped up during the Bush administration. The thinking was that the next pandemic would originate in Asia. So, we went all out to train their scientists, hunt down and catalog viruses in the animal populations and assist Asia with developing pandemic playbooks. We spent billions doing it and it paid off. They ended up being more prepared than we were. In terms of pandemic preperation was in Asia. Here's an excellent video on the subject;

Opinion | How America Helped Defeat the Coronavirus* (Published 2020)

*Just not in the United States.

www.nytimes.com

 

[exco]

Dr. Fauci "never" changed his story about the Wuhan Lab funding. Never. He testified that the $600K grant to the Wuhan lab, had no provision for "gain of function" research. He is 100% correct. It didn't.

The statement in the article ; "I mean he told Rand Paul that he didn't fund gain of function research...". (Dr. Fauci never said this. His comments were in reference to a specific grant that did not include provisions for GOF research.)

As for your question as to why the US is sending money to Wuhan, it's something we've been doing for a while and recently ramped up during the Bush administration. The thinking was that the next pandemic would originate in Asia. So, we went all out to train their scientists, hunt down and catalog viruses in the animal populations and assist Asia with developing pandemic playbooks. We spent billions doing it and it paid off. They ended up being more prepared than we were. In terms of pandemic preperation was in Asia. Here's an excellent video on the subject;

Opinion | How America Helped Defeat the Coronavirus* (Published 2020)

*Just not in the United States.

www.nytimes.com

Please answer my question earlier (instead of choosing what you like to reply and to win the argument):
"While many of our universities and research centers needed funding, why NIH had money to give to this Wuhan Lab?"
Especially China is not really a US ally. Or it may even be an enemy. It seems our military still considers it as a potential threat.

I would suggest you to argue with the Newsweek week reporters about changing their story of the Wuhan Lab funding and the congress.
It is so sad you cannot be open minded to read these reputable media, and challenge your old belief.

Take breaths before reacting to my post. Do not waste your energy on us here. Please go to persuade these trustworthy media first about your "belief", since you are so "sure" about what had been happened.

 

[cman]

I can say the same about you. You provide zero absolutely zero evidence for what you say.

Here's the link to abstract for the grant proposal. It's just a survailance study. https://reporter.nih.gov/project-details/9819304#details

Dr Fauci gives money to a guy who is involved in gain of function research. Wuhan is involved in gain of function research. The guy gives money to Wuhan.

Not quite. The NIH awarded the grant. Dr. Fauci is not the director of the NIH. He's the NIAID Director. Not sure why that matters, because there were no gain of function provisions in the grant in the first place.

Who is appointed to investigate the origins of the virus?

From the New York Times: President Biden ordered U.S. intelligence agencies on Wednesday to investigate the origins of the coronavirus...

So now I've provided the evidence. Just read the grant proposal. Do you see any "gain of function" provisions? It's a $600K, 5 year grant ($133K/year). Not sure if you've ever worked in a lab before, but you're not doing much research on $133K per year. Just not gonna happen.

I'd just advise you to consider your sources, their motives and your own personal biases before passing on information. There's a lot of disinformation out there and we're all succeptable to it.

 

[Yellowfin]

1) I quoted from the Financial times, so I will quote it again if you did not read it:
"New rules were put in place in 2017 but similar experiments, often with US funding, had continued after the ban at laboratories around the world, including at the facility now at the centre of the coronavirus origins debate: the Wuhan Institute of Virology. A multinational group of 15 scientists working at the Wuhan Institute received $600,000 of US public funds between 2015 and 2020 to investigate whether bat coronaviruses posed a risk to humans, Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told a US Senate hearing this week. As part of the work, the team — including the renowned Chinese virologist Shi Zhengli, known as China’s “batwoman” — spliced together two different coronaviruses, creating a more dangerous version, which they found had the potential to infect humans, according to a 2015 paper the scientists published in the journal Nature."

2) It seems it never occurred to you that the Chinese were just playing the game when they received the money and they were disclosing publicly what they knew would be acceptable? I think we are playing semantics. I say they gave money to an institute that was performing gain of function research. You say they did not give it to them for that specific purpose. While that may be true, it does not mean that the money was not used for that kind of research, there was no Chinese wall between their different projects and it makes many people sick to their stomach to know some of their taxpayer money might have been used that way. I personally do not think Dr Fauci is going to recover from this, I would not be surprised to see him stepping down for "personal" reasons before the end of the year.

3) 150,000 dollars per year go much further in China than in the US. I do not even think the amount is that important and we still do not know why they gave 14 million dollars to Peter Daszak instead of giving the money directly to the US universities.

4) President Biden just announced this new investigation following the public pressure. Did you not know that Peter Daszak was part of the WHO investigation or we are playing games?

WHO inspector has conflict of interest in Wuhan COVID probe: Prominent biologist | Taiwan News | 2021-02-04 12:50:00

Richard Ebright says Peter Daszak has conflict of interest in WHO and Lancet investigations of Wuhan outbreak | 2021-02-04 12:50:00

www.taiwannews.com.tw

Have a good night, not wasting any more time on this with you.

 

[cman]

"While many of our universities and research centers needed funding, why NIH had money to give to this Wuhan Lab?"

The short answer to why the NIH had the money to give to the Wuhan Lab, is because congress appropriated the funding to them.

Way back during the Bush administration Asia was identified as the likely source of a pandemic and the US government implemented an extensive program to train their scientist and public health officials to respond to and contain the threat. We helped train their scientests and even wrote their pandemic playbooks. We also helped them set up virus hunting programs that took samples from the animal populations that were sent to various labs to be analyzed for unknown viruses. The Wuhan lab was one of many of such labs all throughout Asia.

The grant in question was only $600K for 5 years ($133K/yr). That's not much. DOD and CDC spend a heck of a lot more on pandemic preparedness than NIH. My guess is after this thing is over, we'll be investing a lot more.