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Timeshares vs. Destination Clubs, Fractionals, etc.

caribbeansun

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Full ownership makes sense provided you purchase in an area that has long-term appreciation potential and your rentals can cover your carrying costs. On the rental point the investment in a condo/hotel is a better play in the sense you can normally rent these by the week or day and get a much higher rental rate than a stand alone condo or house which requires considerably more involvement by the owner and investment of time on the maintenance side as well getting the place rented.

ie. Castaways - gross rent for 4 high season weeks = $13,580.

Discount due to less than full occupancy - say 30% vacant - gross rent reduced to $9,506

Resort share = 25% of gross -- net rent = $7,129.50

Costs will be comparable to a stand alone condo ie. strata, insurance, cleaning etc.

Safe to say that's a lot more than you can rent a stand alone condo and yes of course the rates drop in the summer as does occupancy but by and large it should work out over the course of a year. I'll report back in a years time and let you know.


Fractionals are a completely different thing entirely and IMO not an investment. I view them as the purchase of a block of timeshare weeks - there's insufficient data to determine if the capital investment in a fractional will have any appreciation or not. I suspect they will not and in fact I suspect they will suffer a decline comparable to a timeshare week if not worse due to an implied liquidity discount as a result of the small buyer pool that may exist. I hope I'm wrong for the sake of those that bought fractionals.

JLB said:
Y'all are certainly living in the stratosphere!

My impression of full-ownership is that it is a win-win-win situation. The sales department wins when they sell it to you. The resort management wins when they bill you for maintenance. The rental department wins when they take 50% of what you let them rent for you.

Such a deal.

:D

Fractionals are similar, only on a fractional scale. ;)

JMHO.
 

caribbeansun

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These new developments you're referring to are the DC's? If so they'll never be available resale since the resale piece is part of the business model so decline in value will not occur unless the club reduces their buy-in price which I don't really see happening.

If you are referring to condo/hotels that isn't going to happen either because unlike TS and fractionals you are actually buying something of value, meaning real estate. So yes, real estate values will go up and they will go down but over the longer term they trend upwards. Will they appreciate at a lower or better rate than alternative investments - historically they've appreciated slower however that rate of return likely is more indicative of the relative risk of the investment.

iconnections said:
Timeshares have been around for many years and cost a fraction of these prices but still you have to take a beating, most of the time, when you have to sell but it is not such a large amount. If you buy them re-sale like most people do here, you can't go wrong so wait until these new developments come on the market too. ;)

Renting one of the Trump condos sounds a lot better to me than owning one. JMHO.
 

PerryM

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Local real estate agents form the market

Let’s face it, in addition to 50 times the work needed to sell a timeshare condo, the local real estate agents nearby view it as a cancer in their area – and thus affect the resale value too. Find a nearby real estate agent, close to your timeshare, and march in there and demand your mud week be listed in the MLS will have them rolling on the floor – you made their day.

Expensive, holiday, weeks that command $50k+ will have them scratching their heads and a $300k quarter share fractional will have them pulling out the sales contract. It’s all a matter of money and commission to them.

Some fractionals do initially decrease in value, march in the real estate office with a Marriott, Ritz-Carlton, or St. Regis will have the real estate agent brewing up a coffee latte or breaking out some wine – they want your business. This means that instead of finding your buyer over the internet or eBay you have a professional real estate agent hawking your fractional or expensive holiday week - in the area where folks see the resort.

There are many stories of Ritz-Carlton owners making gains on par with the local real estate market. Marriott fractionals don’t seem to keep up as well, and St. Regis blows away everything.

Condo-hotels:
Condo-hotels really need to be broken into two subgroups:
Florida type CHs and condo type CHs.

Florida type CHs sell “From the paint inwards” – i.e. you own everything in your CH up to the paint on the walls. After that, the building, elevators, grounds, beach, etc is owned by the developer. This is why CHs go for about 75% the cost of a traditional condo.

Condo type CHs are sold in Hawaii and some developers, like Trump, have the CH owner just a traditional condo owner with the hotel aspects added. Here the CH sells for exactly the same, and even more, than a comparable condo that does not allow short term renting (nightly).

Conclusion:
If you can get your unit, timeshare or fractional, into the local MLS and have brokers hawking your unit you can do much better than normal timeshare weeks sold over eBay. That local real estate agent has an impact on resales.
 

caribbeansun

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I'm guessing they didn't give you permission to post any details?

travelguy said:
I'll contact HCC today or tomorrow and ask them what I can post here in regard to their business plan, etc. Here's a hint: Don't think purchase and payment ... Think leverage and cash flow!

I'll post whatever I can as soon as I get approval.
 

travelguy

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caribbeansun said:
I'm guessing they didn't give you permission to post any details?

Not only did HCC give me permission, they sent additional detailed information about their business plan that I'll try to consolidate and post soon. Some of it is in spreadsheet form and I'll have to convert it for posting. I've been on run (working to support my travel habit) and too busy to get to this but I will post this info in the next several days.
 

PA-

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travelguy said:
...
Your Thoughts????

I'm not familiar with this particular travel club, but in general, I think they promise more than they deliver, and when the house of cards folds, you own nothing. I suspect the same will be the case with High Country.

I'd want to get independently verifiable statements of how many owners there are, proof of how many condos they own (and what percentage they own), etc. Information that they're unlikely to share. I'd like to know how they get paid. I'd want to talk to a random owner (not one they select) and go through the system looking for reservations.

I'd have a lot of due diligence for this type of outfit; more so than a deeded timeshare.
 

Laura7811

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We just bought from High country last week. The member director was very forth coming with information about properties owned verses leased. The reservation system is very easy to use and all the properties are listed.

We decided to join this club, because it was affordable for us. The properties in CA are all pretty close to us.

As we use the club I can let all know more.....:D
 
S

Steamboat Bill

Laura7811 said:
We just bought from High country last week. The member director was very forth coming with information about properties owned verses leased. The reservation system is very easy to use and all the properties are listed.

We decided to join this club, because it was affordable for us. The properties in CA are all pretty close to us.

As we use the club I can let all know more.....:D


wow..that is great news...I am looking forward to your reviews.
 

taffy19

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PerryM said:
Condo type CHs are sold in Hawaii and some developers, like Trump, have the CH owner just a traditional condo owner with the hotel aspects added. Here the CH sells for exactly the same, and even more, than a comparable condo that does not allow short term renting
Condo hotels are very attractive with the hotel aspects added to the premises but the maintenance fees must be so much higher too for the owner. If you can afford it then there is no problem but if you hope to rent it out to cover the maintenance fees but it doesn't rent out as well as you had hoped for, then you are stuck with the high maintenance fees. Yes, the real estate will appreciate so you have at least that which is better than with a timeshare condo but you are making a much bigger investment too. Why are hotels doing this? They are shifting the risk to the condo buyer. JMHO.

I love that they are building all these condo hotels so I can rent there one day and the more there are available the better it will get for the renter. :)
 

caribbeansun

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The maintenance fees are considerably lower than for a comparable TS ie. Reef Resort mf's are approx $1,200/year while the mf's on Castaway Cove are about 50% of that.

iconnections said:
Condo hotels are very attractive with the hotel aspects added to the premises but the maintenance fees must be so much higher too for the owner. If you can afford it then there is no problem but if you hope to rent it out to cover the maintenance fees but it doesn't rent out as well as you had hoped for, then you are stuck with the high maintenance fees.
 

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The Numbers on High Country Club

I finally found the time to post the High Country Club (HCC) business plan. The following is information on their business model based upon information they sent me, my discussions with them, and information I’ve gathered from Destination Club (DC) industry sources.

Here’s my disclaimer – I have assembled the following information for my own decision making and have posted it here for review only. I cannot be sure of its accuracy and you should contact High Country Club directly to confirm this information before taking any action based upon it.

The current HCC statistics:
Time in business: 10+ months.
Members: 160+ (Includes all member types)
Rank of DC in terms of members: 4
Total properties available: 17
Additional properties under contract: 8
Properties leased: 2 (1 in Beaver Creek which does not allow DC ownership)
Average property cost: $775,000 (including furnishing & closing costs)
Reservation days per member: 36 annually
Member to property ratio: 8:1 average
Membership fee: $55,000 average (“Affiliate” membership fee is $30,000)
Annual Dues: $9,000 average (“Affiliate” annual dues are $4,800)
Note: “Affiliate” members have half the reservation days of other members and are considered ½ member for property usage, membership fee and annual dues purposes.

The BIG Question:
The BIG question for the newbie DC business is …… are DCs a business model that allow for long term profitability and growth or are they a pyramid type business that will inevitably collapse and cause financial loss to their members?

The bankruptcy of Tanner & Haley (T&H) and the loss suffered by its 874 members has been discussed on this forum before so I won’t go into it in depth. I’ve done due diligence on several of the more affordable DCs and they do not have the two issues that doomed T&H; a majority of leased properties and unlimited usage by members. The DCs that I’ve talked to are open, frank, professional and seem to care about the current and future state of the DC industry (very un-timeshare like of them!).

The HCC business model:
The HCC biz model is based upon a county club type organization that provides the use of travel properties to its members for a fee. Some other DCs seem to primarily use their members as the resource for the capitalization of its assets (properties) with the benefit for members being the use of travel properties. HCC is also based on a cash flow business model that stresses efficiency of its operations and value oriented purchases of luxury properties that have great potential for appreciation. The HCC investors make their profit primarily by the appreciation of the properties instead of the fees of the members. HCC also keeps its fees low by leveraging appreciated properties for cash instead of getting cash from the members. In this way, members actually participate in the equity appreciation of the properties without spending the exorbitant fees charged by the few DCs that offer so-called asset appreciation participation. (Leveraged cash from appreciated properties = cash for HCC = lower fess and dues for members). Simply put, the difference may be that HCC sees its cash as cash flow while some other DCs see their cash as equity.

The HCC numbers:
Following are business numbers that I’ve summarized from the HCC projections and my discussions with their CFO. You can contact them directly for their unabridged 10 year projections and other financial information.

Property Purchase Costs:
Purchase
Property cost ................. $ 750,000
Property furnishing costs .... $ 25,000
Property down payment ... ($ 225,000 )
Mortgage balance ............ $ 550,000
Property cost includes appliances, built-ins & closing costs
Down payment now @ 30%; will increase as club grows

Mortgage Payment
Total payment ................. $ 46,148 per year / per property
Mortgage @ 30 year term, interest @ 7.5% (actually lower now)

Property Maintenance
Direct property costs ........ $ 25,740 per year / per property
Includes taxes, HOA, utilities, insurance, maintenance, cleaning, etc.

The properties are valued at an average of $850,000 even though many do not cost HCC that amount. They save substantial costs on property purchases by buying some properties @ a preconstruction discount of 20%. Preconstruction properties also appreciate in value by the time the property is constructed and mortgage payments are due. Additional savings on property purchases are due to the commercial real estate background of the company and the multiple purchases they are able to make due to the fast growth of the company.

Property Use by Members:
Members per property: ................ 8
Property use per member: .......... 36 days average
Member usage %: .................... 79%

HCCs financial model is based on an 8 to 1 member to property ratio but that number can be pushed lower in busy travel times and higher in slower times which helps availability (this is achieved by planning to bring new properties online for use during peak usage periods). They constantly monitor the reservation system to ensure that members have availability all of the time. In their short time of operation they have found that people are using about 80% of their available days which even at an 8 to 1 ratio provides a 79% occupancy rate.

Note that the 36 days of use per member is higher than the other DCs that I talked to which averaged closer to 30 days per member. I suspect that is because of HCCs “Affiliate” plan which is really a half-priced, half-use membership where members are more likely to use most of their 21 days as opposed to the standard HCC and other DC membership which averages about 40-45 days of use.

Membership Fees and Dues Allocation:
Membership Fees
Members per property ............................ 8
Membership fee ........................... $ 55,000 average
Membership fee per property ........ $ 440,000
The membership fee will increase to a max of $80,000 as the club grows.

Membership Fee Allocation
Property down payment ............... $ 225,000
Property furnishing costs ............... $ 25,000
Property allocation of member fee .. $ 250,000
Operating cost allocation of fee ..... $ 190,000 per property

Annual Dues
Members per property ............................. 8
Annual dues .................................. $ 9,000 average
Annual dues per property ............... $ 72,000
The annual dues will increase to $10.200. Current annual dues are restricted to CPI + 2% per year

Annual Dues Allocation
Property mortgage payment ........... $ 46,148
Direct property costs .................... $ 25,740
Property allocation of annual dues ... $ 71,888
Operating cost allocation of dues ........ $ 112 per property
This is actually very conservative projection as the projected mortgage rate is 7.5% while it is currently closer to 6.5%

Allocation to Operating Expense
Member fee allocation per property .. $ 190,000
Members per property ............................... 8
New Members for Operating Expense .......... 88
Yearly new member requirement to meet operating expenses. Operating expenses are estimated by me based on my conversations with the HCC CFO and a review of their projections.

This allocation of member fees and dues is different than what some of the other DCs claim. HCC takes a portion of the membership fee and uses it as cash for operations instead of using it all as down payment on property. The mortgages are then supported by the annual fees as payments are due. This allows them to use cash efficiently for cash flow instead of charging higher fees to allow a greater down payment from the initial membership fee. Note that HCC disputes the claims of other DCs on the amount of membership fees that other DCs use for down payments. Also note that HCC will pay a larger percentage of down payment on new properties as the club grows and cash flow increases.

The need for sales:
I believe that HCC and most DC’s need to keep selling memberships to stay in business with maybe the exception of Exclusive Resorts (membership fee of $425,000!). Because of HCCs strategy of outsourcing property management functions and the efficiencies mentioned above, they can sell for much less. When HCC levels out its pricing at approximately $80,000, it would need to sell approximately 6 memberships per month to generate enough cash to pay property mortgages and fund operations. Through the first 10 months of operations HCC is averaging about 15 memberships per month. The best sales tool is member referrals so as HCC is able to build its customer base it also increases its ability to build its sales pipeline.

The destination club exit strategy:
Another concern for DC club members is what is in the future of DCs as these clubs mature. Here are some of the exit strategies that have been mentioned to me by the DCs:
  1. Continue the status quo with the DC generating profits for investors as properties become paid off.
  2. Sell or merge with another DC for greater efficiency of operations and economy of scale for property developments.
  3. Sell to a large travel related conglomerate (ex: Hyatt, Hilton, etc.) which will allow a top tier of destinations for them.
Property equity vs. no-equity:
There has been some conversation on these forums about investment in equity based travel properties including DCs with memberships participating in the appreciation of the properties or shared ownership of the properties. For the record, I make my living by investment in commercial properties and equities (stocks) and have total control over all of them. I personally don’t consider travel an “investment” that I want to participate in. I just want to travel without having to worry about my R.O.I. and the ownership associated headaches of a travel property. I’d rather pay the low membership fee and low annual fees of a DC like HCC instead of paying 3 or 4 times as much in an equity sharing DC. I’ll invest the saved money into the investment vehicle of my choice instead of having some DC investment manager tell me how much I made on a shared property. (IMHO)

Consumer protection for DC members:
To protect consumers and make sure that DC’s are operating responsibly, the largest 7 DC’s have gotten together to form the Destination Club Association (“DCA”). While the DCA best practices are still being developed, the rules will focus on financial management, to make sure DC’s can fulfill their commitments to consumers, and consumer disclosures, so consumers understand exactly what they are buying and the inherent risks. The DCA regulations would have uncovered the Tanner and Haley situation years ago. HCC is actively participating in the organization of the DCA.

The security of membership fees:
Upon termination of membership, HCC members get an 80% refund of their membership fee on a two-in one-out basis so the cash doesn’t really need to be on hand to pay it since they money coming in for the 2 new memberships (at what should be a higher price than the refunded membership) will more than cover the refund. This actually gives the DC the advantage of buying back a low cost membership at 80% of the selling price and then reselling the same membership at 100% of the new, higher price. This creates a win/win situation for both the DC and member requesting the termination of membership.

Even without the need for cash on-hand for the reimbursement of membership terminations, the HCC 10 year projections show a ratio of assets to refundable membership fees at 145% at the end of the first year due to the initial capital investment. A ratio of 100% or higher would mean that HCC should be able to refund all members 80% of their membership fees in the event of total failure of the business. This ratio never dips below 100% thereafter. This sounds great for security purposes, but I believe this ratio is somewhat unimportant as long as HCC can refund the routine membership terminations and has sufficient cash flow to sustain and grow the business. I don’t believe that many businesses, let alone DCs, would survive a catastrophic event where all its customers/members asked for refunds and/or stopped doing business with it. (What would happen to your timeshare if everyone stopped buying, paying their dues and tried to sell?)

In addition to this, the 80% refund will be addressed more as the Destination Club Association finalizes the regulations for the industry but there will be a financial assurance provision that will hold DC’s to a net asset calculation to give comfort to members that they will get their money back. Note that many other DCs have a three-in one-out refund policy.

Final analysis:
IMHO, All businesses have certain assumptions in their business plan in order for them to be successful. HCC appears to have assumptions that are in line with typical business operating standards. Those business assumptions are:
  1. HCC relies on strategies of efficiency in both property purchase and operations to keep costs low.
  2. HCC utilizes its property availability to maximum potential without inconveniencing its members.
  3. HCC generates sufficient cash flow to allow it to continue to purchase desirable properties as membership increases.
  4. HCC must continue to make sales at a reasonable rate.
  5. HCC uses membership fees AND annual dues to make property payments.
  6. HCC should be able to refund routine membership terminations without jeopardizing cash flow.
  7. HCC has a sufficient asset to refundable membership fee ratio to protect members in case of the failure of the business.
  8. HCC, like most DCs, has good exit options that should potentially benefit its members.
HCC pricing is based on growing the company quickly so they can charge a premium for their product. The value of their product is between $75 and $100K and right now they are offering it to people for half of that.

I still haven’t pulled the trigger on a HCC purchase. Any thoughts?

F.Y.I. - HCC contact information is at www.highcountryclub.com .
 
S

Steamboat Bill

travelguy said:
I still haven’t pulled the trigger on a HCC purchase. Any thoughts?

What are you waiting for?

Thanks for one of the BEST posts on DC properties. I too have investigated all the MORE expensive resorts.

One issue I have with HCC is their overpenetration of Colorado ski properties. It would be nice to see them more diversified into Utah, Montana, California ski resorts.

Also, even at the lowest affiliate level, I do not see myself using the properties for 28 days or so. If I was retired (or did not have kids) I would join HCC ASAP.
 

taffy19

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They have Mammoth Mountain which is one of the best ski areas in California! They have snow as early as November and it may last till the 4th of July. Sometimes. :D

If I had to start all over again, I would seriously consider this type of vacation deal rather than buying many different timeshares. If you divide the days into the yearly fees, your vacation is very reasonable and you are staying at very nice places too. You get quality vacations and you risk less than what they sell timeshares for in Mexico that are completely worthless and certainly after 25 years but many people still buy there today for more money than they are asking here. A single week at many Marriott resorts cost you almost the same or more but maintenance fees are less but it is only for one single week or may be two if you lock off your unit. You just hope that these destination clubs will be able to pay the high mortgage payments.

What I don't understand is that if they keep selling more memberships, how do they do not get a problem eventually with too many people trying to get the same accommodations? This is what happened with timeshares too when not every deed was accounted for. We own at a resort where this took place and the State of California had to come in to clean it up.
 
S

Steamboat Bill

Here is my math on Affilliate HCC:

Lost opportunity of $30,000 @ 5% = $1500 - $450 (taxes) = $1050 per year

MF = $4800 per year

$1050 + $4800 = $5850 per year true cost of HCC

If you use it the maximum 21 days then = $278.57 per day
If you only use it 14 days then = $417.85 per day
If you only use it 7 days then = $835.71 per day

Compared to a Marriott or Westgate Park City TS that costs about $30,000 and $900 MF for one week in a 2 BDR = $278.57 PER DAY

The real difference is the HCC offers HOMES vs the Marriott/Westgate 2 BDR condos. It is funny that the cost per day is EXACTLY the same.

The only caveat is to get maximum value from HCC, you MUST use it 3 weeks per year. Even the two weeks per year is a pretty good deal when you consider the quality of the homes.

That said, if they ever offer a Junior Affiliate member with a buy-in for $20,000 and MF of $3,000 and only 14 days useage.....I would probably join.
 
S

Steamboat Bill

Here is the real sticking point for me regarding the Affiliate membership:

Holiday weeks:
The Affiliate membership has NO holiday week feature. You can reserve 2 weeks of usage with 12 month reservations and the third week must be used at 90 days or less. 12 month reservations and 90 day reservations start on a Saturday.

The Private membership allows you to book ONE holiday week per year. Holiday weeks are the weeks containing federal holidays. Spring break is 4 weeks in March and are defined two years ahead as to which weeks they are. Holiday weeks start on a Friday night for 7 nights. You can book any holiday week you want but then must wait 2 years before booking the same exact holiday week. E.g. you book Christmas week in Whistler then next year you can book New Years week in Whistler then 4th of July week the year after than somewhere else and then back to Christmas week in Vail or Whistler if you want.
 

taffy19

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It seems to make more sense if you are retired and can vacation any time of the year or are very flexible with your work so you can use all your allotted vacation days too. In that case, you don't have to travel during holidays either when airfares are at a premium too.

One thing you can say about timeshares is that they have proven themselves to be successful for many timeshare owners since they have been around for many years and the industry is still going strong. You do not get the real estate appreciation when you buy from a developer unless you have owned it for many years and even that is not guaranteed. You do a lot better if you buy re-sale so can at least break even or make a profit when you sell. If the destination club gives you a guarantee of at least 80% of your original investment back then what do you have to worry about? :)

Your vacations at very nice accommodations at prime locations are worth a lot of satisfaction too especially if you can share with family and friends. Money is not everything.
 

Laura7811

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I've been a member of HCC for less than a month. one of the things we like best is, you don't have to make all of your reservations 7 days, you can use days at a time 60 days out. That works well for us, having 2 teenagers at home.

My husband and I bought now because we thought the price was right. And it should get easier to plan when those kids are off to college.....

Also, they wrote into my contract that we can upgrade our membership within 2 years a todays prices........:p
 

travelguy

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Steamboat Bill said:
What are you waiting for?

I’m an entrepreneur which makes me suspicious and paranoid by nature.;)

Actually, I’m used to doing deep analysis on complex commercial property investment which is why you see the over-analysis of DCs and HCC in particular. I was concerned by the issues raised by others on the forum and needed to run the numbers to see if this made sense.

Thanks for one of the BEST posts on DC properties. I too have investigated all the MORE expensive resorts.

I've looked at Private Escapes and had good discussions with them. They have more amenities with their properties and some different policies than HCC but they also charge more ($105,000) and charge a daily fee in addition to the annual fees. My thoughts are that if HCC is solid financially and I can get the travel property access I want with HCC, why pay more? I’ve ruled out the rest of the DCs because I don’t want to pay that much for a DC (remember that this started as an alternative for luxury timeshares).

One issue I have with HCC is their overpenetration of Colorado ski properties. It would be nice to see them more diversified into Utah, Montana, California ski resorts.

WHAT! Who would want to ski anywhere but Summit County and Eagle County??!!:D

Remember that these are commercial real estate guys from Denver that started with good deals on ski properties in the areas they knew. I believe that you will see them continue to expand into other ski areas. I’m a big skier and I’m excited to see they have added properties in Mammoth, CA, Deer Valley, UT and Stowe, VT. Their future plans are for Jackson Hole, WY, Park City, UT, Vail, CO, and Whistler, BC. I’m also a beach bum so I’m pleased with their new destinations in Hilton Head and the Florida beaches. My wife is sold on HCC just because they added a villa in Tuscany, Italy.


Also, even at the lowest affiliate level, I do not see myself using the properties for 28 days or so. If I was retired (or did not have kids) I would join HCC ASAP.

You should talk to them about this. They seem to have creative solutions to most issues with prospective members. As an example, see the first post in this thread for the TUG special membership conditions.
 

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Doug,
Make sure you look at their reservation area. You will see that all prime time(winter, and most of summer) books up 12 months out. If you want a particular property, remember there is only ONE house(not multiple villas etc), and many people trying to get that house during a certain time period. I think it might be booked seconds after the first opportunity like some Marriott timeshares etc.
Mark
 

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iconnections said:
If I had to start all over again, I would seriously consider this type of vacation deal rather than buying many different timeshares.
My plan is to sell several of my timeshares and focus on using the DC in place of them. This is part of our plan to upgrade the quality and size of our travel accommodations

You just hope that these destination clubs will be able to pay the high mortgage payments.

What I don't understand is that if they keep selling more memberships, how do they do not get a problem eventually with too many people trying to get the same accommodations? This is what happened with timeshares too when not every deed was accounted for. We own at a resort where this took place and the State of California had to come in to clean it up
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One of the biggest differences that I’ve found between the DCs and timeshares is the ability to get detailed financial information. The calculations in my long thread illustrate the point that I received all the detailed financial information and projections as a prospective member. I don’t own any timeshares that would give me that type of information as a deeded owner.

As I conclude in the long post, HCC should have no trouble paying the mortgages in the future. Also, the ratio of accommodations to members does not get worse as membership grows. The capacity of accommodations is not static as it is in your timeshare example. The DC purchases more properties as membership grows. The HCC ratio is a new property for every 8 new members. The Private Escapes ratios it 6.5 members per property. Theoretically, this gives the club unlimited growth potential.
 

travelguy

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HCC Property Availability

mjs said:
Make sure you look at their reservation area. You will see that all prime time(winter, and most of summer) books up 12 months out. If you want a particular property, remember there is only ONE house(not multiple villas etc), and many people trying to get that house during a certain time period. I think it might be booked seconds after the first opportunity like some Marriott timeshares etc.

I’m not a member of HCC so I don’t have the ability to access their reservation system. I know that Laura7811 is a HCC member and has made good comments about the reservations system but has not said anything specifically about availability. I assume that you have access to the HCC reservations system? Are you a member or is there some other way to get into the HCC reservations system?

When I talked to HCC in mid-September, they gave me specific availability by week and by property for the 2007 ski season. There was tons of availability at that point, including Holiday weeks. I asked about ski week availability because my experience in timesharing has been that good ski weeks are always the hardest to book.

Also, Private Escapes tells me that they have a 42-44% occupancy rate because they purchase properties at the rate of 6.5 to 1. If availability is your most important issues, they may be a good alternative to HCC. Keep in mind that you pay double the membership fee and daily fees with PE.

HCC also explains that they are purchasing multiple properties in resorts that will serve multiple purposes. For example, on Hilton Head Island, they have a 3bd/3ba house in Sea Pines on the Sea Marsh golf course with a private, heated outdoor pool. The second property in Hilton Head may be a smaller condo on the beach. They have already done this type of dual property purchasing in Beaver Creek, Breckenridge and Keystone (Colorado).

And hey, I figure after 25+ years of timesharing that I’m much better at advanced travel planning and reservations than the average DC member! I’m used to space banking and exchanging two years ahead! ;)
 
S

Steamboat Bill

travelguy said:
And hey, I figure after 25+ years of timesharing that I’m much better at advanced travel planning and reservations than the average DC member! I’m used to space banking and exchanging two years ahead! ;)


Hahahahahahahahaha.....this quote is golden!
 

Laura7811

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The last time I checked, there is alot of availability in CO for ski season at HCC. Alot of the holidays are gone. but thats ok with us we already had our winter plans in place before we bought.

The first think we did was book summer for HI, the property there looks gorgeous.

I so far like the reservation system. Like you said timeshare people have no problem planning.......:)
 
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