Timeshare Traveler Episode 138... HGVMax Resale vs Developer Points Tradeoffs

[Clifbell]

A lot of people learn about the resale market after they have bought Retail timeshare points. It is a good option for many. But there are trade-offs that you should understand. In this video, I will describe the differences between Resale and Retail Hilton Timeshare Points.

I describe the three Options. There is the resale only, the retail only, and a hybrid option. Hilton allows for you to include your Resale Point if you Purchase $25K (each resale) of retail points. I will also cover that option. This is more of an advanced topic but one to learn for future reference. Enjoy!

Timeshare Traveler Episode 138... HGVMax Resale vs Developer Points Tradeoffs

Map of all my timeshare reviews

 

[HuskerATL]

HGV has offered to upgrade one of our resale Boulevards for $7k and entry into Max so there isn't a $25k requirement. I think some sale's folks keep saying that but it isn't true. I have heard of offers ranging from the $7k option that we received to $50k....and everywhere in between.

 

[Clifbell]

HGV has offered to upgrade one of our resale Boulevards for $7k and entry into Max so there isn't a $25k requirement. I think some sale's folks keep saying that but it isn't true. I have heard of offers ranging from the $7k option that we received to $50k....and everywhere in between.

Interesting... I am guessing you don't get any additional points? In my case, I also got 5,600 Points for the $25K (which got me to Premier+). It might be different if you purchased your resale years ago... Or they were willing to do an exception just to get the $7K??

Probably is different depending on the circumstances.

 

[HuskerATL]

The Boulevard week wasn't bought too long ago but I think it is really up to each sale's person and property to negotiate anything they want...for the most part. When we were at KL, they mentioned the $25k number but since then there have been many examples of that not being true. For our specific example, we actual would have lost points from an annual to an EOY. They were just trying to make a sale to get us into Max but we declined. This meeting was in Orlando. If you are in any of the HGV FB groups, you will see a big range of offers to get folks into Max. Do a quick search on "Max" for one of the groups and you can see the different offers that folks post.

For the Orlando meeting, they tried to convince us that if we upgraded the Boulevard week for the $7k, then we would go from Elite Premier to Premier +, which is not true unless they would have written up a contract saying that. We have one retail week that counts for elite status but the rest are resale Scotland. They told me that the Scotland would count toward Max Tiers which later, in a conversation with corporate, I found out that is not true. On the other hand, I did hear from a person on FB that they upgraded last March and the sale's person wrote it in their contract that their resale would count toward Max Tiers and it is does for them now but I haven't heard that from other folks. Most folks, either upgrade a week or buy a new week, and that determines their Max Tier level and the other weeks, that are resale, do not count for Max Tiers but are usable in Max...much like in Legacy having points that are usable but not Elite eligible.

 

[Clifbell]

The Boulevard week wasn't bought too long ago but I think it is really up to each sale's person and property to negotiate anything they want...for the most part. When we were at KL, they mentioned the $25k number but since then there have been many examples of that not being true. For our specific example, we actual would have lost points from an annual to an EOY. They were just trying to make a sale to get us into Max but we declined. This meeting was in Orlando. If you are in any of the HGV FB groups, you will see a big range of offers to get folks into Max. Do a quick search on "Max" for one of the groups and you can see the different offers that folks post.

For the Orlando meeting, they tried to convince us that if we upgraded the Boulevard week for the $7k, then we would go from Elite Premier to Premier +, which is not true unless they would have written up a contract saying that. We have one retail week that counts for elite status but the rest are resale Scotland. They told me that the Scotland would count toward Max Tiers which later, in a conversation with corporate, I found out that is not true. On the other hand, I did hear from a person on FB that they upgraded last March and the sale's person wrote it in their contract that their resale would count toward Max Tiers and it is does for them now but I haven't heard that from other folks. Most folks, either upgrade a week or buy a new week, and that determines their Max Tier level and the other weeks, that are resale, do not count for Max Tiers but are usable in Max...much like in Legacy having points that are usable but not Elite eligible.

It seems like they just wanted to sell you something.... Anything... I am hoping the benefits of Premier+ will be worth it for me... Been happy with Hilton overall... Almost half of my points were resale (I am a slow learner and didn't find TUG until after I had 16K points retail)... But I learned my lesson just like others

 

[HuskerATL]

They tried but failed...

We enjoy ours also and happy with Legacy and Elite Premier for now.

 

[PigsDad]

HGV has offered to upgrade one of our resale Boulevards for $7k and entry into Max so there isn't a $25k requirement. I think some sale's folks keep saying that but it isn't true. I have heard of offers ranging from the $7k option that we received to $50k....and everywhere in between.

Correct. Salespeople lie all the time just to make a sale, and the message they spread differs from one to the next. IMO, reporting what one salesperson said as "facts" is a fools game, and it tarnishes the reputation of those that report those "facts". Just one person's opinion.

Kurt

 

[PigsDad]

It seems like they just wanted to sell you something.... Anything... I am hoping the benefits of Premier+ will be worth it for me... Been happy with Hilton overall... Almost half of my points were resale (I am a slow learner and didn't find TUG until after I had 16K points retail)... But I learned my lesson just like others

So with your recent purchase, do all of your resale points count toward MAX status? We've heard conflicting stories when people have had a mix of developer and resale points. For example, I am currently Legacy Elite Premier w/ over 55K points, all purchased resale. If I purchased a single, small point deed to get access to MAX, I believe I would lose all my status because only the new deed would count toward status.

Kurt

 

[HuskerATL]

So with your recent purchase, do all of your resale points count toward MAX status? We've heard conflicting stories when people have had a mix of developer and resale points. For example, I am currently Legacy Elite Premier w/ over 55K points, all purchased resale. If I purchased a single, small point deed to get access to MAX, I believe I would lose all my status because only the new deed would count toward status.

Kurt

So, from what I was told by the corporate guy...and take it for what it is, was that if we bought retail or upgraded one of our Boulevard weeks to retail, then the one retail and the new or upgraded week would count toward the Max Tier but the other points would be usable in Max. We would go from Elite Premier to either Max Member or Max Preferred based on the upgrade since none of our Scotland would be Max Tier eligible. From what I am hearing, it is working like Legacy does now with your total points and your Elite eligible points.

 

[geist1223]

If the Sales person seems to be making promises that are counter (too good to be true) from what you have heard elsewhere or read about on TUG then have the Sales person write it into the Contract. I have always wanted to add to the Contract: "This Contract includes by reference any and all oral representations made by the Sales Staff during the negotiations. If at any time there is a dispute as to what was represented orally and thus a part of this Contract the Buyers recollection shall be final and deemed correct."

 

[HuskerATL]

Contract the Buyers recollection shall be final and deemed correct

They would never sign that but I love it......just like their wording in the club reference guide that says "All interpretations of rules concerning HGV Max shall be at the sole discretion of Hilton Grand Vacations"

 

[sponger76]

I have always wanted to add to the Contract: "This Contract includes by reference any and all oral representations made by the Sales Staff during the negotiations. If at any time there is a dispute as to what was represented orally and thus a part of this Contract the Buyers recollection shall be final and deemed correct."

I can see it now: "But I clearly remember the salesman told me that if I bought this I'd become CEO of HGVC and have free maintenance fees for life!"

 

[Eric B]

So, from what I was told by the corporate guy...and take it for what it is, was that if we bought retail or upgraded one of our Boulevard weeks to retail, then the one retail and the new or upgraded week would count toward the Max Tier but the other points would be usable in Max. We would go from Elite Premier to either Max Member or Max Preferred based on the upgrade since none of our Scotland would be Max Tier eligible. From what I am hearing, it is working like Legacy does now with your total points and your Elite eligible points.

I believe the corporate guy is correct based upon what it says in the HGVC rules:

HGV Max Benefits and Terms

Qualification. As described at the beginning of these Club Rules, persons may be become HGV Max
members through the purchase of an ownership interest at a HGVClub Resort from an HGV Max
authorized sales center or by paying a one-time HGV Max initiation fee.

HGV Max is not available to persons who acquire an ownership interest at a HGVClub Resort via the
secondary resale market.

HGV Max Benefit Tier Levels. Currently, six tier levels of HGV Max benefits exist based upon the
number ClubPoints attributable to the Member’s qualifying ownership interests .... (Emphasis added.)

So with your recent purchase, do all of your resale points count toward MAX status? We've heard conflicting stories when people have had a mix of developer and resale points. For example, I am currently Legacy Elite Premier w/ over 55K points, all purchased resale. If I purchased a single, small point deed to get access to MAX, I believe I would lose all my status because only the new deed would count toward status.

Kurt

The part of the rules that controls would be the one quoted below. Because you would qualify for HGV Max Benefits you would not get the Legacy Elite privileges.

ELITE
ELITE PRIVILEGES TERMS FOR HGVCLUB LEGACY MEMBERS
Elite Qualification. Hilton Grand Vacations Club currently affords three tiers of “Elite” recognition
privileges to its qualifying Members who acquire vacation ownership interests directly from Hilton Grand
Vacations or such other resort sellers determined by Hilton Grand Vacations Club in its sole discretion
and who do not qualify for HGV Max benefits. ClubPoints acquired for a term of 25 years or less or if
acquired through unrelated third parties do not qualify toward Elite. (Emphasis added.)

My experience with having purchased a qualifying ownership after the April 2022 deadline is that my prior resale ownership is HGV Max eligible. Since then I have purchased another resale ownership and it, too, is HGV Max Eligible. They wouldn't be enough combined to get me from HGV Max Preferred+ to HGV Max Premier so I can't tell you for certain that they don't count towards the tier level I'm at, but I assume they do not.

 

[HuskerATL]

My experience with having purchased a qualifying ownership after the April 2022 deadline is that my prior resale ownership is HGV Max eligible. Since then I have purchased another resale ownership and it, too, is HGV Max Eligible. They wouldn't be enough combined to get me from HGV Max Preferred+ to HGV Max Premier so I can't tell you for certain that they don't count towards the tier level I'm at, but I assume they do not.

You might need to clarify your lingo. If you are in Max then all points are Max eligible...but may not be Max Tier level eligible. Just like Legacy works with Elite...all points are usable but only some are Elite.

 

[Eric B]

You might need to clarify your lingo. If you are in Max then all points are Max eligible...but may not be Max Tier level eligible. Just like Legacy works with Elite...all points are usable but only some are Elite.

Happy to clarify it. The term that HGV is using for points counting towards the tier levels is "qualified" not eligible. If I were to use a term to describe whether points are of that type, I would use "qualified" to match what it says in the rules. To me, the term "eligible" indicates that the points would be capable of being used for something under the club rules other than a determination of status; that is to say they can be used as currency in a transaction for a stay booked through HGV, The Club, RCI, etc., or converted to Hilton Honors points, etc.

 

[HuskerATL]

Happy to clarify it. The term that HGV is using for points counting towards the tier levels is "qualified" not eligible. If I were to use a term to describe whether points are of that type, I would use "qualified" to match what it says in the rules. To me, the term "eligible" indicates that the points would be capable of being used for something under the club rules other than a determination of status; that is to say they can be used as currency in a transaction for a stay booked through HGV, The Club, RCI, etc., or converted to Hilton Honors points, etc.

Fair enough but I was really talking about points that count for Max Tier levels not just in Max. Because you can have a lot of points in Max but only a sub-set of those count toward your Max Tier, i.e. if you have a mix of retail and resale. The retail would count toward your Max Tier level but your resale points would not. They would all be usable for Max reservations though, similar to the way Legacy and Elite work now.

 

[Eric B]

Fair enough but I was really talking about points that count for Max Tier levels not just in Max. Because you can have a lot of points in Max but only a sub-set of those count toward your Max Tier, i.e. if you have a mix of retail and resale. The retail would count toward your Max Tier level but your resale points would not. They would all be usable for Max reservations though, similar to the way Legacy and Elite work now.

It's a bit more complicated than just that, IMHO. There's also the bHC and Club Points in HGVC that have different eligibilities. And within bHC, there are reciprocal priority exchange windows for some but not all resorts and there is supposed to be a limitation to using only points associated with a specific ownership interest in the Home Resort Priority period at W57, The Residences, The District, The Central, and The Quin. I haven't seen any indication that the limitation for Home Resort Priority has been implemented in the reservation system yet, though, so I would think of bHC points as being "capable" of being used for Home Resort Priority reservations at any of those someone owns even if they aren't truly "eligible" for that use. That's one of those things where the juice is probably not worth the squeeze to spend the money on adding a limitation to complicate the system for no good reason.

 

[HuskerATL]

True, but for Elite purposes, bHC and HGVC work together so if you have a retail bHC and a resale Craig Lodges, the total combined would be your Elite level. If you also had a resale Boulevard, for example, it would not count toward your Elite level but the points would be usable in HGVC/HC. This is how Max is working also. There are qualifying points for Max Tiers and other points usable in Max.

This came up from my call with corporate about our retail Tuscany, resale Boulevards, and resale Craig Lodges. The retail Tuscany is Elite qualifying points, resale Boulevards are not, and the Lodges are and we are Elite Premier because of that. Now if we wanted to "upgrade" one of our Boulevards to retail and join Max, our retail Tuscany and the upgraded Boulevard would count for our Max Tier level but our Craig Lodges would not so we would go from Elite Premier to Max Member or Max Preferred, depending on the upgrade. All our points would be usable in Max though for reservations but our Tier would be low and based on the Tuscany points and the upgrade points. We passed on their offer.

Now, the intricacies of all the other parts are a whole other discussion. I am just comparing Max Tier/total usable Max points to Elite Tiers/total usable Legacy HGVC/HC points

 

[Clifbell]

So with your recent purchase, do all of your resale points count toward MAX status? We've heard conflicting stories when people have had a mix of developer and resale points. For example, I am currently Legacy Elite Premier w/ over 55K points, all purchased resale. If I purchased a single, small point deed to get access to MAX, I believe I would lose all my status because only the new deed would count toward status.

Kurt

Yes, they do count toward Max status.... after I raised a lot of crap with the sales team that promised it (I didn't stop pushing as I had it in writing... However, they now have changed it so they do not count toward status... I suspect I got lucky.

 

[HuskerATL]

Yes, they do count toward Max status.... after I raised a lot of crap with the sales team that promised it (I didn't stop pushing as I had it in writing... However, they now have changed it so they do not count toward status... I suspect I got lucky.

I think early on a few people were able to get it in writing. You are the second person that I have heard did this but the rest that I have heard from, they didn't. The other person made them put it in writing also but that was last March.

 

[GT75]

Yes, they do count toward Max status.... after I raised a lot of crap with the sales team that promised it (I didn't stop pushing as I had it in writing... However, they now have changed it so they do not count toward status... I suspect I got lucky.

I agree with @HuskerATL, you got maybe a one-off. I don't think that is standard even by your narrative. The problem I have with reporting anything said by a salesperson, they could be lying or misrepresenting the truth. Just look at this post to understand TS salespeople training. I have tried to convey that when I quote something a TS salesperson tells me.

John Oliver’s take on Timeshares

From John Oliver’s show last night. Let’s say he’s not a fan. ** Strong language in this video **

tugbbs.com

 

[dayooper]

I agree with @HuskerATL, you got maybe a one-off. I don't think that is standard even by your narrative. The problem I have with reporting anything said by a salesperson, they could be lying or misrepresenting the truth. Just look at this post to understand TS salespeople training. I have tried to convey that when I quote something a TS salesperson tells me.

John Oliver’s take on Timeshares

From John Oliver’s show last night. Let’s say he’s not a fan. ** Strong language in this video **

tugbbs.com

The biggest way to stop this is to not go to sales presentations. Current owners make up over 50% of sales and some just keep going back for more. Stop taking up their offers and don’t go to presentations.

 

[GT75]

The biggest way to stop this is to not go to sales presentations. Current owners make up over 50% of sales and some just keep going back for more. Stop taking up their offers and don’t go to presentations.

Totally agree. I just stayed at Sunrise Lodge (Park City, UT) a couple of weeks ago. I got a call from the concierge before arrival and also a very cryptic message (concerning some free benefit) on phone during our stay. I would have gotten a $250 MF credit (or other benefits) for the owner's update. But, I declined. The concierges were upset but I didn't want to waste my time during this trip (too busy skiing and they didn't have good time slots to accommodate me.)

 

[Clifbell]

The biggest way to stop this is to not go to sales presentations. Current owners make up over 50% of sales and some just keep going back for more. Stop taking up their offers and don’t go to presentations.

I made sure I got it in writing and had the manager sign it as well... It was a one off because I made it clear that I meant it... They also knew that I was an experienced person... It took me a month of badgering... but I got the status... Now they need to deliver the benefits of the HGVMax. I have the Lyft credit, but not the open season credit.

 

[GT75]

I made sure I got it in writing and had the manager sign it as well... It was a one off

Did you get Loyalty Search Request on HGVC HGVMax also in writing?