Timeshare Tours For Freebies -- Ethical Epiphany.

[AwayWeGo]

For a while there I was feeling semi-guilty over taking some of those timeshare sales tours just for the freebies.

Except that it isn't just for the freebies. I like seeing the resorts up close & personal. Things I have learned from paying attention during the sales talks have turned out to be helpful later on.

Also, zero guilt feelings are involved when I'm at an "owner update" or some such thing while staying as an owner or exchange guest at a timeshare resort & the sales people come after me with various enticing offers to get me to show up & subject myself to their sales pitch.

But going out & looking for timeshare tours to sign up for, with no intention of buying anything, just (or mainly) for freebies, can bring a mild twinge to my conscience. (It doesn't last long & I get over it right away.)

Also, those freebies aren't completely free -- I have to work for'm, fending off mild to intense high-pressure sales tactics for 2 hours or more each time.

That's where this ethical epiphany comes in. Shucks, instead of summoning up all the sales resistance needed to fend off all those entreaties to buy-buy-buy, instead I could just cave in immediately, say OK, sign on the dotted line, whip out my credit card, collect my freebies, go home, a then carefully follow all the rescission procedures well within the required cooling off period for cancellation, & simply rescind-rescind-rescind.

Two things keep me from doing that: (1) The feeling that entering into a fake purchase like that is even worse ethics than signing up for tours knowing I will only say no-no-no, & (2) the suspicion that all the paperwork, credit checks, forms to fill out, & procedural folderol involved after saying yes but with intent to rescind might add up just as much hassle as saying no-no-no in a straightforward way.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.

 

[BocaBum99]

That strategy will take longer since the deeding process is so long.

You're better off just telling them upfront that you are there for the freebies and you have no intention of buying. In this way, you are honest with them and never told a lie.

By the way, almost 100% of the people who go to a timeshare sales presentation go there just for the free gift. Sometimes, they succumb to the siren's call, though, of dream vacations with those you love using "anyway dollars."

 

[wackymother]

Do you ever read The Ethicist column in the NY Times Magazine? I'm pretty sure he covered this question a few years ago. I don't always agree with him, but this time I did. The letter writer asked if it was unethical to go to a sales presentation just for the freebies, knowing full well that he had absolutely no intention of buying the timeshare. The Ethicist said that it is completely fine--the salesman is betting that he can persuade you to change your mind. I always like when The Ethicist backs me up on things I would do anyway!

 

[jules54]

I never have a problem with the ethical issues. As I always state I am not interested in buying more timeshare. That never stops a outside rep from chasing you down that sidewalk. I have stated many times at sales presentations when questions about wasting my time or their time comes up. I always say It is their marketing program not mine. I don't chase them down the street increasing my bonus offers with each step, they chase me. The marketing must still be working as the offers have only increased in the payout in recent years.

 

[marion10]

I haven't done any timeshare presentations, but I do test drive offers on a regular basis.I go into the dealership and tell them I have no intention of buying, I'm just there for the offer. 99% they just sign the form and don't even take me out on a test drive.

 

[marinersfan]

I'm alway interested in seeing the product when visiting an area and if they'd just let me see a unit and browse around without a sales person I would prefer that, but since it happens so rarely I'm forced to do a sales presentation and take the freebies.

 

[Mosca]

I'm in sales, and I go on the timeshare tours if I have the time and want the offer.

In talking with the time share salespeople and their managers, they overwhelmingly prefer that people take the tour regardless of their motivation. They believe that their "turnaround" % on non-buyers is high enough to justify that belief. I'm sure that they have statistics to back that up.

So don't worry about it, I say. Personally I haven't found the offers to be worth the time wasted; it usually kills between 1/2 to 3/4 of a day.


Tom

 

[rickandcindy23]

Mexico salespeople tend to be different

They expect everyone to buy.

Our friends accepted $300 cash (I think) to attend a tour that was much longer than they were told it would be, Then they were belittled and told, "If you were not interested in a timeshare at this resort, why did you take the tour?" It was a big turnoff for them. They own two weeks on Maui and one week in the Colorado mountains, all were purchased as resales.

They were insulted by the Mexico tour. I would have been too. I see how people get sucked in, they actually guilt you into it at some resorts, but the Mexico resorts are worse.

We are going to attend lots of timeshare presentations in Orlando from now on.

 

[AwayWeGo]

A Snappy Comeback For Sure.

"If you were not interested in a timeshare at this resort, why did you take the tour?"

The appropriate response to that was suggested above: "Hey, it's your marketing program. I'm here because you invited me, remember?"

I am going to save that for use on the next occasion that some timeshare sales weasel accuses me of wasting his or her time.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.

 

[snowlady]

On our last visit to OLCC we agreed to go on the tour only so we could purchase my in-laws discounted tickets to Universal. Orange Lake has this nifty computer in the sales room now. If you plug in your zip code, it shows you how many people in your city/town own at OLCC. We live in a SMALL town and at first I was suprised to see that 4 people owned there. Then my husband reminded me that we own three units, so only 1 other person in our town owns there! Oh well, at least we were smart enough to buy them all resale.

 

[BocaBum99]

Another strategy is to come in with a print out from Redweek.com showing the resale prices. Show it to the sales rep upfront and tell them that you are interested in buying if they can come anywhere close to the prices listed.

Then, ask them why you should pay more for the timeshare directly from them and that you would check out those reasons prior to buying. And, if they all check out, you would buy from them over the phone. Put your credit card on top of the redweek print out to show your seriousness.

I haven't tried that one yet. It should get you out in about 15 minutes. They should release you early.

If they threaten to not give you your gift, just start laughing and tell them you will listen to their pitch for exactly 90-minutes. Also, tell them you know for a fact that they can't do that and put a 10 dollar bill on the table and ask them to bet you on it.

The absolute best story I heard was when one buyer brought in a copy of the Fairfield Class action lawsuit and opened with "tell me why I should buy a timeshare from you given this class action lawsuit?" The sales person and sales manager were so stunned, they just let them out with their free gift immediately.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Tried That But Got Outfoxed By Points.

Another strategy is to come in with a print out from Redweek.com showing the resale prices. Show it to the sales rep upfront and tell them that you are interested in buying if they can come anywhere close to the prices listed.

Was all set to try that a couple of years back when we went to Summer Bay Las Vegas on a promotional tour -- had a half-dozen pages of TUG classified ad print-outs with me. The sales folks threw me a curve, however. Instead of trying to sell me a straight week, they tried selling me RCI Points. I didn't buy -- too high. But a seed was planted & I got into RCI points later (via eBay).

It should get you out in about 15 minutes. They should release you early.

I figure if I sign up for a 90-minute tour, I owe'm 90 minutes. (The Chief Of Staff says if I'd just keep quiet & look bored, we'd get sent to the freebies window faster.)

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.

 

[loosefeet]

As a single woman attending TS presentations--I've been insulted each time--"why are you here then" "why can't you buy"--I wish I could come up with better answers, b/c I do truly like to tour the properties, and would do it without incentives if that was possible. I'm sure there are some power plays trying to happen. Oh well, I would never buy from anyone who's rude!

 

[huestous]

That's where this ethical epiphany comes in. Shucks, instead of summoning up all the sales resistance needed to fend off all those entreaties to buy-buy-buy, instead I could just cave in immediately, say OK, sign on the dotted line, whip out my credit card, collect my freebies, go home, a then carefully follow all the rescission procedures well within the required cooling off period for cancellation, & simply rescind-rescind-rescind.

I've done this three times now over the past few years, but have been hesitant to discuss this "strategy".

This is especially useful for obtaining detailed information about the workings of a particular program, since with purchase you are handed the books and brochures that fully describe the system (e.g. Sunterra). That information can better help you weigh the pros and cons of various systems, and if you purchase resale, gives very valuable information that you otherwise would not have.

My rule of thumb now is not to purchase resale until I've purchased a developer week in order to obtain the descriptive documents. How do I rationalize the ethical dilemma? I tell the sales rep "No, I like the resort, but am not interested in purchasing at this price." And when they call in the next guy and continue to push the sale, I purchase. (I told you it was a rationaization)

I have never been asked to return or to pay for the materials received.

 

[mishugana]

Another strategy is to come in with a print out from Redweek.com showing the resale prices. Show it to the sales rep upfront and tell them that you are interested in buying if they can come anywhere close to the prices listed.

Then, ask them why you should pay more for the timeshare directly from them and that you would check out those reasons prior to buying. And, if they all check out, you would buy from them over the phone. Put your credit card on top of the redweek print out to show your seriousness.

I haven't tried that one yet. It should get you out in about 15 minutes. They should release you early.

If they threaten to not give you your gift, just start laughing and tell them you will listen to their pitch for exactly 90-minutes. Also, tell them you know for a fact that they can't do that and put a 10 dollar bill on the table and ask them to bet you on it.

The absolute best story I heard was when one buyer brought in a copy of the Fairfield Class action lawsuit and opened with "tell me why I should buy a timeshare from you given this class action lawsuit?" The sales person and sales manager were so stunned, they just let them out with their free gift immediately.

i did that at the FF owners update last nov in vegas i even printed them out for free at their puter

 

[Hoc]

The appropriate response to that was suggested above: "Hey, it's your marketing program. I'm here because you invited me, remember?"

I am going to save that for use on the next occasion that some timeshare sales weasel accuses me of wasting his or her time.

I've never had things get that confrontational. I'm very clear from the first minute that I'm there for the gifts, I have no intention of buying, I already own 12 timeshares -- all bought resale -- and I probably know more about timesharing than they do. Most spend a few minutes to see if I'm telling the truth, and then they just let me go on my way with the gifts. Only once -- at Mayan Palace Riviera Maya -- did a "closer" try to guilt or intimidate me into buying. He told me that I had just wasted the poor salesman's time, and he needed to feed his family. I said that it was his choice, as I had been up front with him from the beginning. Then he said, "why did you come here if you knew you weren't going to buy?" I responded, "for the gifts!"

He then looked disgusted and let me go. But other than that, all of the timeshare presentations to which I have gone have been short and, essentially, a piece of cake.

 

[jlr10]

One of my coworkers bought a Kauai Embassy week. They went back the next year and were asked to do the owner update. They agreed with the salesman ..Yes, it was great coming to Kauai, Yes, they loved the resort, Yes, they would love spending two weeks there, Yes, it was the best vacation spot in the world, Yes they would love to own another week at the Embassy. Then the salesperson pulled out the contract and they said, Yes, we know your price, but we have just come from the Timeshare resale office and we know what these units go for resale, so we are not going to pay the developer price, and they showed them the flyer they had gotten. They advised the only way they would buy from the developer was if the developer sold it at the same price.

I was listening to the story waiting for how the salesmen got quiet, or rude, or the other actions they normally take, but instead he told me they sold it to him for the resale price. I was very surprised.

We were at Waiohai last year, and really did like the resort. What got us out was saying we did like the resort, but we had been fairly successful using our week to trade into Hawaii, so couldn't see justifying the cost to purchase another week. But we would consider it if, if they wanted to buy back our summer desert week, at what we paid for it (since Marriott is such a great value!) to use it as a trade in. He was a new saleman and had no idea what to say. So we got our certificates and were out the door pretty soon after that. I will admit he was fairly nice considering he was with 2 couples and could see that he wasn't going to make a sale to either.

 

[derb]

Does the Developer have to hold off ....

Does the developer have to hold off charging the credit card until after the cancellation grace period has expired???

 

[timeos2]

Developers can match resale

I was listening to the story waiting for how the salesmen got quiet, or rude, or the other actions they normally take, but instead he told me they sold it to him for the resale price. I was very surprised.

The only two developer purchases we made were in cases where they matched the best available resale price we could find. This was back in the early to mid 90's so the ease of Internet resales wasn't a factor. We had to find the little stores that handled resales at that time.

After a number of tours (repeats at the resort we really liked) over about a year we finally found the resellers and got written proposals from them. With those in hand we walked into the sales area about 3PM as they were closing down. We explained that we had toured a couple times before and this was the resort we wanted - what was their best price? They came back with the lowest number we had heard in our three visits but still nearly $3000 over the resale. Thats when I brought out my papers and said I cannot justify the higher cost when I know I can buy it for this amount out on 192.

In retrospect I know we got the typical sales lines at this point. They "found" a unit that had already been sold but came back due to financing issues. They couldn't give us a "new" week but only one in an old building (OK, we felt there was a differnce - what did we know?) And they couldn't quite match the price exactly but could make it within $500. We were hooked. There was something about knowing we were buying from the developer and that there was no question about the sale that made the $500 seem worth it.

Of course when we got the deed we were surprised to see we got a new building after all (again, what did we know?) and that it was a clean deed - there was no previous buyer. But we also were more comfortable with that sale over a seemingly riskier resale.

Interestingly the same tactics didn't work at Westgate and our purchase there was via resale (thank the Lord!). Our only other developer purchase out of our 7 weeks was our first FF. The system was so hard to grasp and seemed so great that again I felt I needed the comfort of a developer purchase behind me. Again we used the resale pricing base and again paid more (about $1000 in this case) to get the comfort and hand holding I felt I would need. I underestimated the complexity of the FF system and did in fact fall back on that support many times over the first year or so but once I figured it out we bought the remainder of our FF Fairshare points by resale. Now with the free flow of information available to buyers and the huge price difference in retail vs resale FF Points I would have to recommend even a new buyer go resale from the start. No reason to pay for developer support (which may be flawed in any case as they try to sell more rather than help you maximize your current ownership).

So developers will come very close to resale pricing if they think that is the only way to get the sale and your numbers are realistic (no $1 eBay sales). It isn't my recommended way to buy but is certainly better than full retail every time.

 

[BocaBum99]

So developers will come very close to resale pricing if they think that is the only way to get the sale and your numbers are realistic (no $1 eBay sales). It isn't my recommended way to buy but is certainly better than full retail every time.

I don't agree with you on this point. Their sales and marketing costs are too high to come close to the resale market price.

I do agree that many developers also sell resale inventory, but that resale inventory is significantly higher than you can get on eBay or Redweek.

 

[timeos2]

Not always thats for sure

I don't agree with you on this point. Their sales and marketing costs are too high to come close to the resale market price.

I do agree that many developers also sell resale inventory, but that resale inventory is significantly higher than you can get on eBay or Redweek.

It's not going to occur everytime (see Westgate) and it will still be a premium to some degree but much closer or even at resale than full shot. Again I wouldn't go that route today and with the much larger exposure resales have now and the shear quantity out there prices are much lower than in 1993. So few would match a $1500 price if their asking price is $24,000. But you might get a bite if the resale is $7000 and they started at $16,000. Worth a try if you are so inclined.

 

[Karen G]

I always say It is their marketing program not mine. . . . The marketing must still be working as the offers have only increased in the payout in recent years.

I really like that response, and I'll have to remember it next time I'm in Cabo. I have no qualms about going back to the PB "owner's update" every time they invite me. I have paid for the "gifts" many times over since we bought from the developer in '98. And we were among that percentage of people who come in only for the gifts and end up buying--that was pre-TUG, of course!

It also seems that the whole town is now involved in getting people to come to the presentations. This year a old local woman who looked like a great-grandmother approached us as we were walking near the marina to see if she could sign us up. Cabo exists because of tourism and timeshares, and I imagine everyone who lives and works there is connected to that business in some way.

So, realizing that, we just relax, play their game, go to presentations to get the activities our kids and their friends want to do, and contribute to the town's economy and the income of the workers. The people who sign you up are paid well enough to keep on doing the job and more and more of them seem to be getting into the business.