timeshare deed vs timeshare license?

[e.bram]

I am looking to buy a timeshare in Mass. The HOA will not let the seller issue a new deed, but insists on issuing a timeshare license. Does anyone have any information on the implication of this.

 

[montygz]

I am looking to buy a timeshare in Mass. The HOA will not let the seller issue a new deed, but insists on issuing a timeshare license. Does anyone have any information on the implication of this.

I've heard of sales blocked to LLC's to avoid Viking Ship strategies but not this.

 

[dioxide45]

Is the original ownership deeded, or some kind of leased arrangement? Does the seller have a deed in their name?

 

[e.bram]

Is the original ownership deeded, or some kind of leased arrangement? Does the seller have a deed in their name?

YES. The seller does have a deed in their name.

 

[dioxide45]

YES. The seller does have a deed in their name.

Are you trying to buy the timeshare as an individual or under an LLC or trust?

 

[e.bram]

Are you trying to buy the timeshare as an individual or under an LLC or trust?

NO! My personal name!

 

[Ty1on]

The HOA should have no control over transfer of deed. Deed recordation should be done by the county.

 

[tschwa2]

So it sounds like no one here is familiar with it and it might be resort specific and you aren't mentioning the resort. You might want to consult with a lawyer specializing in real estate in the county and/or state in question. If it is a county with online access to deeds, perhaps you can try to look up any recent transfers and see what the wording actually is on the license.

Another option would be to check with LT transfers. They might charge you to do the research if they aren't already familiar with documents from that resort/county but they may be able to help.

 

[e.bram]

So it sounds like no one here is familiar with it and it might be resort specific and you aren't mentioning the resort. You might want to consult with a lawyer specializing in real estate in the county and/or state in question. If it is a county with online access to deeds, perhaps you can try to look up any recent transfers and see what the wording actually is on the license.

Another option would be to check with LT transfers. They might charge you to do the research if they aren't already familiar with documents from that resort/county but they may be able to help.

An Innseason Cape Cod resort.

 

[tschwa2]

Innseason is predominantly a point system and I know you dislike points systems. Does the current owner have a fixed week or points?

 

[rjwehr]

Is this the same resort/system?

Captain’s Quarters (InnSeason Resorts, Falmouth, MA)

Giving away our timeshare on Cape Cod. There’s nothing wrong with it or the location, but we just don’t use it. This is Captain’s Quarters at Surfside Resort, InnSeason Resorts, Falmouth, MA and is located on Heights Beach. You'll enjoy Cape Cod sunrises and sunsets with a view of Martha's...

tugbbs.com

If so, you may be able to ask this owner what they know about how Innseason titles/deeds the units.

 

[e.bram]

Innseason is predominantly a point system and I know you dislike points systems. Does the current owner have a fixed week or points?

Fixed week. Fixed unit.

 

[tschwa2]

Fixed week. Fixed unit.

and what does the HOA say is the difference between the license and a deed?

 

[e.bram]

Inn Season Surfside will no longer transfer your deeded ownership to someone else. The condominium will demand you assign your deed back to them and issue a Timeshare License.

 

[dioxide45]

Inn Season Surfside will no longer transfer your deeded ownership to someone else. The condominium will demand you assign your deed back to them and issue a Timeshare License.

Does it lose the fixed week fixed unit in the process?

 

[5finny]

Found this on Google search so take it with a grain of salt and it is a different state it may not be accurate.

But my take is that it is likely that the license gives you much less of an interest in the property than a deed would ( giving the new "owner" even less rights than if he had a lease much less a true ownership interest). You would think that there would be an underlying license agreement which would spell out your rights or lack thereof. I expect that the new owner (the condominium association ?) would have a much greater ability to change things

"Although the terms are often used interchangeably, a lease and a license are distinctly different under Connecticut law. In its simplest form, a lease is a contract that conveys an exclusive possessory leasehold interest in property; whereas, a license is a mere privilege to act on another’s property and does not confer or produce a possessory interest in the property. A license is generally revocable at any time by the licensor, hence the term “revocable license” is sometimes used. The ultimate distinguishing characteristic of a lease is that the landlord or lessor surrenders exclusive possession of the premises to the tenant or lessee for a specific term or period.

By its definition, a license does not “run with the land” and therefore will not bind a subsequent purchaser. It is intended to be exercised only in the specific manner for which consent was given. To that end, a license cannot be assigned because as a matter of law, the privilege does not extend beyond the initial licensee. As a result, a property owner who acquires a property – through an assignment of lease in connection with a sale – is not bound to recognize or assume a license agreement that may have existed prior to its ownership."

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

........But my take is that it is likely that the license gives you much less of an interest in the property than a deed would ( giving the new "owner" even less rights than if he had a lease much less a true ownership interest). You would think that there would be an underlying license agreement which would spell out your rights or lack thereof. I expect that the new owner (the condominium association ?) would have a much greater ability to change things.......

This could be viewed as a good thing; as long as the licence issued by the HOA is specific enough to meet your use needs
It could work like a RTU with an end date.

(ie) you are 65 years old and get a lifetime licence to use ( fixed week xx ,fixed unit xx) .
When you are done using it due to age ,inability to travel ,or you bought the 6 foot below ground condo. - the HOA gets it and you are out cleanly.

 

[5finny]

This could be viewed as a good thing; as long as the licence issued by the HOA is specific enough to meet your use needs
It could work like a RTU with an end date.

(ie) you are 65 years old and get a lifetime licence to use ( fixed week xx ,fixed unit xx) .
When you are done using it due to age ,inability to travel ,or you bought the 6 foot below ground condo. - the HOA gets it and you are out cleanly.

Could be
Depends on what you want and what the deal actually is.
The key is actually understanding what you are now buying

 

[bogey21]

If the cost is negligible, this could be a good deal. No disposal issues or costs. Just relinquish your license to use. No pain, no strain...

George

 

[theo]

I cannot even begin to comprehend how a deeded fixed week ownership can somehow be unilaterally morphed into a (no ownership) "license" with no owner involvement or consent (or compensation). How can a deeded ownership of a piece (albeit only a very small piece) of property just be magically turned into a mere "right to use", overnight?

This certainly does not pass my sniff test, but I won't pretend to know anything about the corporate inner workings and / or machinations of Inn Seasons Resorts.

 

[e.bram]

I cannot even begin to comprehend how a deeded fixed week ownership can somehow be unilaterally morphed into a non-ownership "license" with no owner involvement or consent (or compensation). How can a deeded ownership of a piece (albeit only a small piece) of property just be magically turned into a mere "right to use", literally overnight?

This certainly does not pass my sniff test, but I won't pretend to know anything about the corporate inner workings of Inn Seasons, nor whether the involvement of a LLC as a potential buyer (if that is indeed the case) is a factor.

Apparently if you want to transfer your ownership the will only accept you deeding your deed to the condominium and issue a license to the new "owner". If you transfer and even record the deed to the new owner the condominium will not accept the new deed or the rights and obligations that should come with it.
Has anyone had this experience?
I communicated with LT transfer and they indicated they could not effect the transfer with Innseason.

 

[theo]

Apparently if you want to transfer your ownership the will only accept you deeding your deed to the condominium and issue a license to the new "owner". If you transfer and even record the deed to the new owner the condominium will not accept the new deed or the rights and obligations that should come with it.
Has anyone had this experience?
I communicated with LT transfer and they indicated they could not effect the transfer with Innseason.

On its' face, if accurately portrayed above (and assuming that you actually meant to say deeding to the HOA, where you have instead stated condominium above), this situation seems tantamount to the HOA seizing deeded, owned property from owners. Frankly, this seems outright unlawful to me. There must be a whole lot more to this.

 

[dioxide45]

On its' face, if accurately portrayed above (and assuming that you actually meant to say deeding to the HOA, where you have instead stated condominium above), this situation seems tantamount to the HOA seizing deeded, owned property from owners. Frankly, this seems outright unlawful to me. There must be a whole lot more to this.

I would think obtaining a copy of the resort CC&R and bylaws for the property should provide some additional clarification.

 

[bogey21]

On its' face, if this situation seems tantamount to the HOA seizing deeded, owned property from owners. Frankly, this seems outright unlawful to me.

This is interesting. The crucial question is does the HOA have the absolute right to not approve transfers? If they do, and then offer the alternative in question which Seller and Buyer accept, is it not a voluntary decision on their part? I don't know. Just asking...

George

 

[theo]

I would think obtaining a copy of the resort CC&R and bylaws for the property should provide some additional clarification.

Maybe. I would certainly be very interested to see any CC&R language that allows a HOA to unilaterally (magically?) transform any deeded ownership of a fixed week / unit into what would essentially be a right to use "membership" --- without owner consent, involvement or compensation. That would surely make for some very intriguing reading.