Timeshare Closing Services, Inc.

[johnmfaeth]

Hi Linda,

This is more akin to the developer of a condominium apartment complex who uses their own inhouse people to do the closing. In the case of traditional real estate, the buyer will usually have counsel, but picture if the buyer had none and just used the sellers to get the paperwork done, but received no legal advice. Another similar situation is when a mortgage lender demands that the closing occured at the offices of their attorney. But again, both buyer and seller would typically have counsel, imagine if they didn't. The mortgage company's attorney represent neither, will just get the paperwork done.

Many large timeshare dealers, who often sell as principal, not broker, demand the use of their closing company which they also own or have an exclusive relationship with.

In legal terms/perspective, the closing company however dows not act as legal counsel to either party. It is "loyal" to the transaction and acts without bias to get it completed as a mechanical process. It does not provide "representation", nor specific legal advice to either side. Such things are the territory of the traditional attorney, Another analogy is that it is like the "runner" who gets the newly executed mortgage from a traditional residential closing to the recorder's office that same day.

Such items are usually fully disclosed up front by the big seller.

There are also a number of fully independent timeshare closing companies, they primarily target the individual resale market when sales are between private parties who met and agreed to a transaction, and then need it effectuated.

Hope this helps!

John

 

[johnmfaeth]

A Title Company is different, they produce title abstracts and/or represent a title insurance issuer in getting a title policy underwritten.

Some closing companies also offer that service. But the main service is deed creation, recording, resort notification, and escrow services. Coming for the traditional real estate world, you would wince at what most of them call escrow management with comingled funds in corporate accounts. A select few offer segregated bank-based escrow management services. That is unfortuately rarer.

 

[johnmfaeth]

I must add to this thread that it looks like some errors happened for sure.

I have personally bought well in excess of a dozen timeshares from Vacation Innovations on Ebay since 2001. The number is probably closer to two dozen. All were closed by TCS.

They have gotten the job done. They are one of the better BIG closing companies. I have experienced far slower via other Ebay reseller's closely held closing companies. Not takeing away from the mistakes of this one, but it is not typical in my experiences.

Howver, I never felt a cent was at risk, nor was it, and in 90% of all cases (not just mine), whether a closing takes two months or three, there is no material impact on the buyer. Who really cares if the week being bought will not be used for another 9 months anyway?

Obviously it is different if one wants to bank or get an early reservation. Most of the big ones like TCS, Holiday Group, and Title Outlet have made reservations for me during the closing process in the past. So that issue is also off the table.

Yes, I am like a little kid too. I want it NOW !!! But is that a real issue in terms of any impact on using it when the time finally rolls around?

Enjoy your new timeshare JLB. And congrats on another EBay killing if this is the one you were discussing in the other thread. I have exercised great control in buying the last year or so.

On a related topic, you may soon be ready for membership in "timeshares anonymous". Your collection is growing it seems. UHMMMMM....

 

[rickandcindy23]

I am a Mortgage Broker/Loan Officer by trade for residential and commercial properties. Since the buyer is the party that is paying for the closing it generally is their option to use whatever title company they would care to if they choose. That is generally their right. Is it different when buying timeshares? I have been reading of different companies using their own title companies and it does not sound like (or it just may not be offered) the buyer has a say so. Does anyone know the actual rights of the buyer on this?

Linda, this has been a problem I have had for a long time. I am a Realtor, so I know what the law is, too. I don't understand why timeshare sales are different, but all they have to say is, "if you don't want the week, then we will sell it to someone else." So you are stuck with their title company, and basically you are agreeing to theirs (very cozy relationships between seller and closing companies, too, especially in the case of Timeshare Closing Services in Orlando).

I would like to choose a closing company that will get the job done in < 2 months but I never have that option on an eBay sale.

 

[JLB]

Everything John said.

Our problem is likely not one of substance, one that will make a difference.

It is the not knowing, then the knowing that I knew more than they knew, and wondering how long they would sit and do nothing.

Unlike purchases from a developer, eBay has feedback, a way to report right where the sales takes place. Can you imagine sitting in the BIG ROOM at Wastegate, or OLCC, and see feedback posted on all the closing tables!!!???

 

[JLB]

Two deeds arrived in the mail today, both from eBay purchases at the same resort.

The one closed by TCS, Inc., was recorded 1/8/08 and the one closed by Title Outlet, Inc., was recorded 2/20/08.

TCS has told me that the Deed had been lost in the mail, never getting to the Recorder, and they did not have it. That was on 2/21, when I called after they did not reply to my 2/08 email. The deed they sent is the original, so they did have it, and it just got set aside (for over a month), exactly as the Recorder's office speculated.

 

[laura1957]

Two deeds arrived in the mail today, both from eBay purchases at the same resort.

The one closed by TCS, Inc., was recorded 1/8/08 and the one closed by Title Outlet, Inc., was recorded 2/20/08.

TCS has told me that the Deed had been lost in the mail, never getting to the Recorder, and they did not have it. That was on 2/21, when I called after they did not reply to my 2/08 email. The deed they sent is the original, so they did have it, and it just got set aside (for over a month), exactly as the Recorder's office speculated.

That is pretty much what happened to me - papers they insisted they never received and which they would have to get all new papers from the resort, send them to me to sign and return - somehow they showed up. TWICE this happened. Then they sent me deeds for someone else, then they had the resort wrong.... FINALLY, the people at Massanutten (who have been great to work with) say they have everything they need and it should be finalized on or about March 13th. Then they will prepare the bill and I can finally pay my maintenance fees. It has only taken 9 months.

 

[JLB]

I know sometimes I point out the obvious too much, when it is obvious, but the obvious in this case, again, is that TCS took way longer than TO, and likely only got it done at all because I intervened.

Had I not we can all only specualte whether it ever would have gotten done. Perhaps someday someone would have noticed that extra deed laying around and perhaps, maybe figure out that something needed to be done with it.

Some folks don't pay close attention to detail on both ends of transactions, like family/friends of ours who bought property for their retirement home several months ago. When we talked to them about it, mentioning this deal with our closing, they could not recall if they ever got their deed after closing. They shuffled through papers and none of them were from the closing agent.

Of course, being me, the first thing I would have done in a case like that is call the Recorder to see if I really, legally owned the property.

 

[JLB]

TCS sent a letter by email saying they had heard from the resort and we are now the new owners. It thanked us, invited us to use their service again, and asked us to fill out a survey, to be eligible for a $100 prize.

Sorta figured we were already eligible for it.

 

[JLB]

The final letter from TCS arrived today, 12 days after the email version arrived.

Surprisingly they also sent us a check for $50, dated 17 days ago. There is no explanation for it, and they almost spelled my name right.

Perhaps they heard from a certain Florida resort that I can be had rather cheaply, that for a little bit of money I will keep my mouth shut about shoddy service, bad attitudes, inhospitality, etc.

Nah!

 

[JLB]

I'm guessing the fifty bucks is for a resort transfer fee that TCS guessed would be charged, sorta customary and standard, that was not.

 

[JLB]

Now Things Are Screwed Up With RCI

Since RCI does not allow members to add new weeks purchased online, like ignoratn members cannot be trusted to do that, you have to call a Guide, the simple single recipe to screw things up at RCI.

When I did that, to add our two new weeks, he insisted on depositing the one I wanted deposited, even though I told him we had not paid 2008 fees yet. I asked him not to.

But he did.

So, we got a notice that that deposit had been denied because our resort would not confirm it.

Additionally, he did not get both weeks added to our account properly.

So, of the two things he could have screwed up, he did both.

Par for the course when relying on a Guide.

Then I got the email survey asking how he did!

Why is that RCI assumes that a Guide will know more about our accounts, our weeks, and what we want to do than we do? Do they think their Guides are clairvoyant?

Through Feedback I got the weeks listed in our account properly.

When I paid the fees two weeks ago, I deposited the week we wanted deposited. Then, when I went online I saw that that week has been deposited twice, but not confirmed. That is because RCI did not take away the first deposit when it was decline.

The week I deposited has not moved up into the exchanging folder yet.

 

[Lisa P]

So did I miss it? Jim, has the closing and transfer into your name been finalized correctly now? (RCI issues notwithstanding)

 

[dboy1]

We purchased 3 weeks in the same EBAY sale in Nov. 1 week is registered and I have booked 2 weeks with it. The other 2 weeks are somewhere in limbo.

 

[chalucky]

TCS, truly, is the worst...I had two nightmarish experiences (too long to go into) with them and would urge anyone with a choice...to choose anyone but.

Generally, it depends which closing agent you get to work your account...suffice to say you should not have to teach them to do their job!

Good luck !

 

[JLB]

Yes, and as of yesterday, the RCI/Resort issues also. I searched with the new deposit for the first time this morning, unfortunately with the results I expected.

I already have the second new week rented, albeit for bottom dollar, with the check supposedly in the mail.

Oh yeah, I got another letter from TCS yesterday, exactly the same as the last letter, only with the survey postcard enclosed, to make me eligible for their $100 prize. I suspect if I returned it it would not make it to the drawing box.

So did I miss it? Jim, has the closing and transfer into your name been finalized correctly now? (RCI issues notwithstanding)

 

[theo]

Different moon on Planet eBay....

I am a Mortgage Broker/Loan Officer by trade for residential and commercial properties. Since the buyer is the party that is paying for the closing it generally is their option to use whatever title company they would care to if they choose. That is generally their right. Is it different when buying timeshares? I have been reading of different companies using their own title companies and it does not sound like (or it just may not be offered) the buyer has a say so. Does anyone know the actual rights of the buyer on this?

You may not be aware that many commercial eBay sellers have "contractual arrangements" with certain closing entities, which handle ALL of their sales. In short, the seller can (and does) clearly specifiy in the eBay listing that "closing will be conducted by XYZ closing company". As long as that fact is clearly stated up front, the seller is in the driver's seat. In such instances, the buyer can either agree to those terms --- or choose not to purchase at all. Insisting on choosing one's own closing company is simply not one of the two available choices in such instances.

 

[JLB]

Since I have a preferred closing company, I actually thought about demanding/requesting it.

I didn't for the same reason most people buy timeshares in the first place, that the resellers have sold so many on eBay, and with such positive feedback, that everything must be OK with the way they have it set up.

Like when you buy your first timeshare, retail, there's so many people here doing this that they surely can't say the things they are saying unless it is all true. Surely the government and the legal system would not them do that.

So I just had to be one of the very few to give negative feedback to VIN on eBay.

Oops, I did it again. The negative thing.

 

[Lisa P]

Glad to read it finally got resolved. We've bought 5 weeks through them in the last year. Most went through very, very smoothly and quickly - a few weeks from start to finish. Consequently, when one hit a snag, we weren't paying attention. We failed to follow up, thinking it was surely going to go as smoothly as the others.

On that one week, the closing went through to the NC county for recording and I believe TCS was sent the new deed. Normally, the closing company then sends the new deed original to the buyer and a copy to the resort along with any transfer fee and in this case, the 2008 MF as well. But that part didn't happen in this one case - we didn't get the original, the resort didn't get the copy & fees. By the time we found out about the standstill, it was several months later. I called and emailed the selling agent and the closing agent at TCS. It was settled correctly in about 2 weeks. They were actually pretty quick in responding to each of my follow-up inquiries during that 2 weeks, within a business day or less.

No matter who is handling the closing, it makes sense for a buyer to follow up closely. These closing companies do this all the time so we expect them to follow through everytime - that's what they're paid to do, after all. In this instance, though, when they made a mistake, I think we let it go too long (several months) before looking into it for myself. At least they fixed things after that.

If this had been our first dealing with Timeshare Closing Services, I would have been angry! Having had 4 swift, accurate closings before this one, I think I'm more accepting of this mistake, though. I think one of the closing agents lied to me on the phone about what had been the problem, trying to pass the buck. But the selling agent was honest, apologetic and he really did press to get things straightened out, contacting me later to make sure it was all done. I would use them again but just watch each step closely. And that's probably a good idea no matter who is doing the closing, IMHO.

 

[JLB]

In defense of TCS, when this all started I was not aware of VIN's operation, but have become aware of it recently by the other thread. I suspected it, guessing that people were paying VIN to take their TSs, but I was way low on the amount they are charging.

If TCS is as busy as they may be, with closings from all the weeks that VIN may be picking up from timeshare victims through their hotel operation, it could be that they are overwhelmed.

And, if the traditional TS industry would pay attention and care about those whose money they have been taking for years, and help them on the way out as eagerly as they helped themselves to their money on the way in, stuff like this may not happen.