Time Share Ownership Advice

[turkel]

Funny, I just read this whole thread and the only person who was rude and belligerent was the OP. The word Troll comes to mind.

Tuggers are very patient and kind people.

I thoroughly enjoy my timeshares and they make perfect financial sense to me. I will be retired in less than a year at the ripe old age of 54 so clearly I am no financial dumb dumb. In my experience when people ask a financial question they tune out the answer and continue as they have been before. Clearly the OP didn’t want to hear anything that was different than his/her current point of view.

Enjoy your investment OP, I will enjoy my timeshares and we both will live happily ever after.........the end.

 

[andre10056]

Can anyone explain to me how it makes financial sense to own a time share?


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It only makes sense under the following conditions:

1. You buy a resale (from ebay, redweek, etc.) for next to nothing. If you buy from a developer/resort sales staff, you will likely have made one of the the worst decisions of your life which will cause you unending anxiety and grief. You will likely not be able to get rid of it for anything near the value you paid....or you won't be able to sell even if offering it for free....such that you'll pay ever increasing maintenance fees forever. There's a reason that you read about elderly couples having over time paid $100,000 to someone who "guarantees" to rid them of their timeshare, only to learn that it was a scam. But just think of the desperation that caused them to seek out this "help".

2. You buy a resort in a year round high demand area. Otherwise, there will be so many owners who stop paying their maintenance fees on weeks that are torture to go to (for example, rural Pennsylvania in January or even ice cold Panhandle in Florida in January), your maintenance fees will skyrocket year after year. If the resort is someplace people want to go January through December (e.g., Fort Myers Beach), non-payers of maintenance fees will be at a minimum and your maintenance fees should stay low.

3. Your resort, and the week that you own at the resort, has a high trade value with the exchange services. That way, if you trade it in, you'll have multiple excellent options for a vacation elsewhere. But if your week at whatever resort has a low trade value (and you can check with rci or ii to get some "feel" for any week's trade value....25 and up is good, 15 or lower is bad at rci), you can forget about ever trading it for anything of value. Maybe last minute (which means you check December availability starting mid-November), but then you'll have to be able to travel last minute. And may also mean you have to pay megabucks for plane fares if driving is not an option.

4. You can easily rent the week at a profit above your maintenance fees if it turns out you can't travel to your fixed week or the floating week you reserved for that year. But even that usually requires AT LEAST two months advance listing on redweek, Airbnb, etc. And will cause you a ton of work. Otherwise, you can list it "last minute" on TUG but your rent rate will have to be rock bottom and, even then, you will likely be unsuccessful.

5. The resort and week you own at that resort is not generally available at a lower cost via websites like redweek or myresortnetwork or even Airbnb. If you can't rent it (as a renter) cheaply when you may want to go, that's a checkmark in favor of becoming an owner. But if your resort has ample rental listings throughout the year at competitive rental rates (check out Holiday Inn Vacations Club at Orange Beach (any one of the four villages) on redweek, for example), timeshare ownership truly makes zero sense.

6. Some people will argue that one of the greatest benefits of owning timeshares is that you can become a member of an exchange service and will, thereby, have access to those services' last minute rental specials (for example, rci calls it "last call" vacations). And those offers are sometimes pretty good. But I see nothing in either the RCI or Interval International websites that says you have to have identified your timeshare ownership with them. So perhaps you can just pay your $89 per year for exchange service membership and take advantage of whatever lower cost rental options they offer (even far off into the future and not just "last call" opportunities).

On the plus side for timeshares in general, I prefer to rent from a professional lodging establishment rather than from some individual. Professional lodging establishments know about things like bedbugs (more accurately, how to check for them and how to exterminate them) while Joe Shmoe Airbnb Owner possibly will not. So...that's a big benefit of hotels and timeshares.

There's a reason that bedbugs, nearly extinct some few years ago, have staged a dramatic comeback and I wouldn't be surprised if the reason was Airbnb.

So, in my opinion and in summary, the answer of whether or not you should buy, rent, or have nothing to do with a timeshare is....drumroll...it depends.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@andre10056 Nice analysis. I would offer the following:

1) Some highly prized properties such as hotel branded Oceanfront Maui, Oahu, Ski season, and NYC (billionaires row) can resale for $15k+. Some for as much as 50k or more during peak weeks.. However that's a fraction of resale. Location, Location, Location rules in these cases. In all cases the MF cost of the unit is much less than renting and there is high demand.

2) Maui and Oahu fits this perfectly. Year round weather. NYC surprisingly is almost year round with people wanting to visit during all times of year, including frigid Thanksgiving and New Years celebrations.

...

6) You cannot join these services without identifying the timeshare you own to belong to these services. They will check with the HOA/Developer and list your specific unit in the exchange because they want to know what you could potentially exchange. However, if you sell your unit, you can continue to use if you don't notify them that you sold.

 

[easyrider]

The vacation clubs you are talking about and what I and others are talking about aren't the same thing. Haven't you ever been to one of those fly by night operation dinners or rented store front presentations?

Yes, I have been pitched at the exit of timeshare presentations these wonderful deals that include airfare, cruises, villas and other amazing benefits. I politely decline unless they are having a problem understanding no no no.

The best closing line was " most intelligent people see how this product will work for them" . I asked how many people ? " One out of three" was the answer. I reached out and shook his hand and watched as his eyes got big as he thought we were in. I said "congratulations,............ you are one person closer to three".

Bill

 

[pianodinosaur]

I perceive timeshare ownership as a luxury rather than as an investment. I love to travel with family and friends. Timesharing is fun.

 

[Rolltydr]

I perceive timeshare ownership as a luxury rather than as an investment. I love to travel with family and friends. Timesharing is fun.

I'm probably saying the same thing, just a little differently. For me, it isn't a financial investment, it is a health and happiness investment.

 

[BarbmC]

I knew financially it was not a good investment. But it was an investment for family vacations - which are awesome. I bought to bait my kids to travel with me.

 

[uaremymuse]

It only makes sense under the following conditions:

1. You buy a resale (from ebay, redweek, etc.) for next to nothing. If you buy from a developer/resort sales staff, you will likely have made one of the the worst decisions of your life which will cause you unending anxiety and grief. You will likely not be able to get rid of it for anything near the value you paid....or you won't be able to sell even if offering it for free....such that you'll pay ever increasing maintenance fees forever. There's a reason that you read about elderly couples having over time paid $100,000 to someone who "guarantees" to rid them of their timeshare, only to learn that it was a scam. But just think of the desperation that caused them to seek out this "help".

2. You buy a resort in a year round high demand area. Otherwise, there will be so many owners who stop paying their maintenance fees on weeks that are torture to go to (for example, rural Pennsylvania in January or even ice cold Panhandle in Florida in January), your maintenance fees will skyrocket year after year. If the resort is someplace people want to go January through December (e.g., Fort Myers Beach), non-payers of maintenance fees will be at a minimum and your maintenance fees should stay low.

3. Your resort, and the week that you own at the resort, has a high trade value with the exchange services. That way, if you trade it in, you'll have multiple excellent options for a vacation elsewhere. But if your week at whatever resort has a low trade value (and you can check with rci or ii to get some "feel" for any week's trade value....25 and up is good, 15 or lower is bad at rci), you can forget about ever trading it for anything of value. Maybe last minute (which means you check December availability starting mid-November), but then you'll have to be able to travel last minute. And may also mean you have to pay megabucks for plane fares if driving is not an option.

4. You can easily rent the week at a profit above your maintenance fees if it turns out you can't travel to your fixed week or the floating week you reserved for that year. But even that usually requires AT LEAST two months advance listing on redweek, Airbnb, etc. And will cause you a ton of work. Otherwise, you can list it "last minute" on TUG but your rent rate will have to be rock bottom and, even then, you will likely be unsuccessful.

5. The resort and week you own at that resort is not generally available at a lower cost via websites like redweek or myresortnetwork or even Airbnb. If you can't rent it (as a renter) cheaply when you may want to go, that's a checkmark in favor of becoming an owner. But if your resort has ample rental listings throughout the year at competitive rental rates (check out Holiday Inn Vacations Club at Orange Beach (any one of the four villages) on redweek, for example), timeshare ownership truly makes zero sense.

6. Some people will argue that one of the greatest benefits of owning timeshares is that you can become a member of an exchange service and will, thereby, have access to those services' last minute rental specials (for example, rci calls it "last call" vacations). And those offers are sometimes pretty good. But I see nothing in either the RCI or Interval International websites that says you have to have identified your timeshare ownership with them. So perhaps you can just pay your $89 per year for exchange service membership and take advantage of whatever lower cost rental options they offer (even far off into the future and not just "last call" opportunities).

On the plus side for timeshares in general, I prefer to rent from a professional lodging establishment rather than from some individual. Professional lodging establishments know about things like bedbugs (more accurately, how to check for them and how to exterminate them) while Joe Shmoe Airbnb Owner possibly will not. So...that's a big benefit of hotels and timeshares.

There's a reason that bedbugs, nearly extinct some few years ago, have staged a dramatic comeback and I wouldn't be surprised if the reason was Airbnb.

So, in my opinion and in summary, the answer of whether or not you should buy, rent, or have nothing to do with a timeshare is....drumroll...it depends.

Very good explanation. Based on your theories about ownership, would you hazard a guess on the best time of year it would be to own weeks in Las Vegas, like at Polo Towers, which is right on the Strip?


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[CalGalTraveler]

Can you name anything fun that is a good investment compared to stocks?

Boat? No.
RV? No
Vacations? Nope.
Second home? No High capital, money pit.
Cars? nope.

You can't enjoy family time or have fun with your stocks. So pick what you enjoy lest you sit at home and do nothing.

 

[dagger1]

Because timeshares can be difficult to rent, sell, or even give away, you shouldn't buy one unless you're sure your financial future will allow you to travel and use it for many years to come. Having said that, we bought 3 weeks in Kauai. It costs us about $260/night for a 2 bedroom, ocean front unit. Booking at the same property through Expedia would cost over $500/night and would only be partial ocean view.

Ok, I'll bite. Timesharing makes financial sense to me because I bought resale and predominantly vacation in the Hawaiian islands where hotel/condo rentals are expensive. I have Marriott and VSE trading units that allow my family to stay in excellent quality Hawaiian resorts at a fraction of what I was paying in the past through VRBO, AirBNB, Redweek, and Priceline.

Ditto.

 

[dagger1]

Everyone that agrees with timesharing forgets the $20-30 thousand dollars they paid upfront...And then pay MF's on top of that....Not a Bargain...

And no one stays young forever...How about illness, death, etc .....Still gotta pay fees..

Many bought resale at 75%-99% discounts to the number quoted above...

 

[dagger1]

Yes, but a house is an investment whereas a TS generally speaking isn’t. Big difference.


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People have lost fortunes buying real estate. Resale TS purchasers usually lose very little and stay in 2BR resort condos instead of hotel rooms.

 

[andre10056]

Very good explanation. Based on your theories about ownership, would you hazard a guess on the best time of year it would be to own weeks in Las Vegas, like at Polo Towers, which is right on the Strip?


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Hello uaremymuse.

First of all, I should state that I know little about Las Vegas. I had the opportunity to visit Las Vegas when I was stationed at Marine Corps base Twentynine Palms, California but never did so. So, as a result, I never learned whether people go there in droves year round, or whether there are significant down times throughout the year.

I suspect, from looking at the weather, that there are times when Las Vegas gets REAL slow (scroll down until you see the annual graph):

The lakes, NV Monthly Weather Forecast - weather.com

Weather.com brings you the most accurate monthly weather forecast for The lakes, NV with average/record and high/low temperatures, precipitation and more.

weather.com

I'm not sure I'd ever want to be in Las Vegas during the summer unless I were a compulsive gambler who stayed indoors all day and all night. But if I wanted to hit the Polo Towers rooftop pool, or wanted to play golf or tennis, or just generally wanted to do anything outdoors, Las Vegas would likely not be for me.

My concern would, therefore, be #2 from my above post. If people may have been sold summertime timeshares (let's assume that their purchase may have been via a resort presentation during the spring), and thereafter realized that summertime Las Vegas may not be for them, either, they may simply stop paying their maintenance fees. If the delinquency rate is high enough, such that the resort won't be collecting all the maintenance fees they need to meet their budget, guess who ends up paying the bills: the paying timeshare owners. When the maintenance fees get raised as a result, that pushes even more people into "disgruntlement" (is that a word?) who, in turn, stop paying THEIR maintenance fees. Leading to yet another sizable maintenance fee increase......

In fact, the winter wouldn't be the best time to visit in terms of weather, either. 50s would not allow me to use that rooftop pool. And fall is kind of a dead travel season everywhere in the continental US, so that's also not too attractive. All in all, I can envision only springtime Las Vegas travelers happily paying for their timeshare but, unfortunately, they may have to ultimately pay megabucks for that privilege as they subsidize the non-payers.

So that's my initial impression but let's go to actual prospective resale purchase opportunities. From redweek:

		WEEK (SEASON)	USE	TYPE	UNIT VIEW	BEDS/BATHS	SLEEPS
REDWEEK VERIFIED	$500 $1,145	12	Annual	Deed	Varies	2 2	6	VIEW POSTING
REDWEEK VERIFIED	$700 $855	Floating	Even Years	Deed	Varies	1 1	4	VIEW POSTING
REDWEEK VERIFIED	$1,200 $1,155	35	Annual	Deed	Varies	2 2	6	VIEW POSTING
REDWEEK VERIFIED	$3,000 $1,152	52	Annual	Deed	Varies	2 2	6	VIEW POSTING

Right off the bat, I notice that the 2 BR maintenance fees are quite high. Now I've never been to the resort, maybe it's ultra luxurious, but if not $1150 or so is a HIGH annual maintenance fee.

Moreover, redweek also has rental listings and it's obvious that the owners just want to barely get their maintenance fees back. If that's the case, I'd rather rent than buy. Moreover, I'm sure that some, if not all, would be very negotiable to be able to get even a percentage of their maintenance fees back.

On ebay, there's a week 19 1 bedroom (it says $772 annual maintenance fee) being auctioned off right now with a 1 dollar minimum and zero bidders thus far. So, again, why on earth would anyone buy from the resort? There's clearly little, if any, demand for even resales at a dollar bill.

Last, I checked Interval International for Polo Towers, Las Vegas. II doesn't let you see what the trade value for a resort might be (at least, so it seemed to me). However, I checked what was available in II's inventory for "getaways" to the Polo Towers. All I saw were studios and 1 bedrooms but, significantly, no matter what month it may have been, the rate of rent for a week was less than the maintenance fee for that week! Amazing! I checked March, June, and December for a 1 BR at Polo Towers and the rates of rent were about $700 for March, $650 for June, and $595 for December. So who needs to buy and pay $772 as an owner?

But, again, those were just 1 BRs and studios. Maybe you'd prefer a 2 BR and would be willing to throw caution to the winds about possible future maintenance fee increases. Then I suggest you negotiate with the $500 week 12 guy (or gal) listed on redweek...or just wait till a 2 BR is listed on ebay.

 

[uaremymuse]

People have lost fortunes buying real estate. Resale TS purchasers usually lose very little and stay in 2BR resort condos instead of hotel rooms.

In the strictest financial sense, TSs do not fall into the category of being an investment. If they were, CFRs would recommend them to clients for holding in their retirement portfolios and I’ve yet to meet anyone who buys them as an investment. There are gazillions who lose money on TSs. Just google TS as an investment and you’ll find pages and pages of very sad stories. Regardless, there are plenty of people who enjoy owning their TS and each case is as individual as the next but the reasons for ownership are rarely if ever stated because it’s an investment. It’s because the owner enjoys it for personal reasons, like you, and they either justify the cost based on hotels or other rentals or they simply could care less about its cost. In other words, money isn’t at issue. They have their use, just as you’ve stated. Thank you for your comment.


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[uaremymuse]

Hello uaremymuse.

First of all, I should state that I know little about Las Vegas. I had the opportunity to visit Las Vegas when I was stationed at Marine Corps base Twentynine Palms, California but never did so. So, as a result, I never learned whether people go there in droves year round, or whether there are significant down times throughout the year.

I suspect, from looking at the weather, that there are times when Las Vegas gets REAL slow (scroll down until you see the annual graph):

The lakes, NV Monthly Weather Forecast - weather.com

Weather.com brings you the most accurate monthly weather forecast for The lakes, NV with average/record and high/low temperatures, precipitation and more.

weather.com

I'm not sure I'd ever want to be in Las Vegas during the summer unless I were a compulsive gambler who stayed indoors all day and all night. But if I wanted to hit the Polo Towers rooftop pool, or wanted to play golf or tennis, or just generally wanted to do anything outdoors, Las Vegas would likely not be for me.

My concern would, therefore, be #2 from my above post. If people may have been sold summertime timeshares (let's assume that their purchase may have been via a resort presentation during the spring), and thereafter realized that summertime Las Vegas may not be for them, either, they may simply stop paying their maintenance fees. If the delinquency rate is high enough, such that the resort won't be collecting all the maintenance fees they need to meet their budget, guess who ends up paying the bills: the paying timeshare owners. When the maintenance fees get raised as a result, that pushes even more people into "disgruntlement" (is that a word?) who, in turn, stop paying THEIR maintenance fees. Leading to yet another sizable maintenance fee increase......

In fact, the winter wouldn't be the best time to visit in terms of weather, either. 50s would not allow me to use that rooftop pool. And fall is kind of a dead travel season everywhere in the continental US, so that's also not too attractive. All in all, I can envision only springtime Las Vegas travelers happily paying for their timeshare but, unfortunately, they may have to ultimately pay megabucks for that privilege as they subsidize the non-payers.

So that's my initial impression but let's go to actual prospective resale purchase opportunities. From redweek:

		WEEK (SEASON)	USE	TYPE	UNIT VIEW	BEDS/BATHS	SLEEPS
REDWEEK VERIFIED	$500 $1,145	12	Annual	Deed	Varies	2 2	6	VIEW POSTING
REDWEEK VERIFIED	$700 $855	Floating	Even Years	Deed	Varies	1 1	4	VIEW POSTING
REDWEEK VERIFIED	$1,200 $1,155	35	Annual	Deed	Varies	2 2	6	VIEW POSTING
REDWEEK VERIFIED	$3,000 $1,152	52	Annual	Deed	Varies	2 2	6	VIEW POSTING

Right off the bat, I notice that the 2 BR maintenance fees are quite high. Now I've never been to the resort, maybe it's ultra luxurious, but if not $1150 or so is a HIGH annual maintenance fee.

Moreover, redweek also has rental listings and it's obvious that the owners just want to barely get their maintenance fees back. If that's the case, I'd rather rent than buy. Moreover, I'm sure that some, if not all, would be very negotiable to be able to get even a percentage of their maintenance fees back.

On ebay, there's a week 19 1 bedroom (it says $772 annual maintenance fee) being auctioned off right now with a 1 dollar minimum and zero bidders thus far. So, again, why on earth would anyone buy from the resort? There's clearly little, if any, demand for even resales at a dollar bill.

Last, I checked Interval International for Polo Towers, Las Vegas. II doesn't let you see what the trade value for a resort might be (at least, so it seemed to me). However, I checked what was available in II's inventory for "getaways" to the Polo Towers. All I saw were studios and 1 bedrooms but, significantly, no matter what month it may have been, the rate of rent for a week was less than the maintenance fee for that week! Amazing! I checked March, June, and December for a 1 BR at Polo Towers and the rates of rent were about $700 for March, $650 for June, and $595 for December. So who needs to buy and pay $772 as an owner?

But, again, those were just 1 BRs and studios. Maybe you'd prefer a 2 BR and would be willing to throw caution to the winds about possible future maintenance fee increases. Then I suggest you negotiate with the $500 week 12 guy (or gal) listed on redweek...or just wait till a 2 BR is listed on ebay.

As a former 2 BR Lock-off PT owner in the Marriott renovated tower (very nice units) I can corroborate your analysis. I got my 2 weeks, (Christmas and New Years) for free and they still were not worth the MFs to keep them and for very the reasons that you stated. I enjoyed going to Vegas for many years but I could have easily paid less to stay in just as nice of a place elsewhere without the headaches of TS ownership. When I tired of going, I was never able to rent them, ever. Why? Because PT rents the vacant units at way below cost and their owner’s MFs. And depositing them with II was equally ridiculous. My story is one story only. There are many others who love their TSs and all that matters is their happiness. Thank you for your comment.


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[CPNY]

Funny, I just read this whole thread and the only person who was rude and belligerent was the OP. The word Troll comes to mind.

Tuggers are very patient and kind people.

I thoroughly enjoy my timeshares and they make perfect financial sense to me. I will be retired in less than a year at the ripe old age of 54 so clearly I am no financial dumb dumb. In my experience when people ask a financial question they tune out the answer and continue as they have been before. Clearly the OP didn’t want to hear anything that was different than his/her current point of view.

Enjoy your investment OP, I will enjoy my timeshares and we both will live happily ever after.........the end.

Right? I just rented points and covered my maint fees, left over points and booked 3 separate trips. Spring break just opened up at my resort and I booked it with airfare under 400RT!! Free trips lol

 

[CPNY]

booking a one bedroom oceanfront at the Westin in Maui. The maint fee on the star options needed with SVV ownership is around 1600. The retail value is 5500 for the same period of time ive booked. Makes financial sense to me. Now buying developer doesn’t make financial sense but owning in certain systems can make financial sense in terms of travel. No one buys a timeshare as an investment. You buy a timeshare to travel and enjoy a resort/home feeling.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Gazillions?
That’s a lot!


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[CalGalTraveler]

@uaremymuse You still have not answered my question:

Can you name anything FUN that is a good financial investment compared to stocks?

Pick your poison... enjoying life costs money. You work hard, and save so you can enjoy the fruits of your hard work. You can't take it with you...

Re: Polo Towers. I would not buy this. Vegas is over built with timeshares (supply/demand). We own HGV in Vegas but use the HGVC points to arbitrage into expensive Hawaii and NYC timeshares. This way we pay $985 to get a week in Hawaii or NYC renting for $4000 or more. This is how a TS makes financial sense.

Don't buy in Vegas to stay in Vegas

 

[dagger1]

In the strictest financial sense, TSs do not fall into the category of being an investment. If they were, CFRs would recommend them to clients for holding in their retirement portfolios and I’ve yet to meet anyone who buys them as an investment. There are gazillions who lose money on TSs. Just google TS as an investment and you’ll find pages and pages of very sad stories. Regardless, there are plenty of people who enjoy owning their TS and each case is as individual as the next but the reasons for ownership are rarely if ever stated because it’s an investment. It’s because the owner enjoys it for personal reasons, like you, and they either justify the cost based on hotels or other rentals or they simply could care less about its cost. In other words, money isn’t at issue. They have their use, just as you’ve stated. Thank you for your comment.


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I agree that financial advisors should not recommend adding TS’s to a portfolio who’s purpose is to provide dividends/interest or growth in value in most cases. But not in all.
But I assumed that by posting on TUG you understood that this is not just a group of knowledgeable TS owners, but also people who love to travel. This is what we do...
Investments can provide gain and growth. Investments can also be used to reduce costs and expenses, allowing our growth investments to grow faster.
TS’s can drastically reduce travel costs. Meals in for a family of six can save $500-$1000 over a week. TS owners pay no sales tax, resort fee or parking (in most instances),!saving another $500 for a weeks stay. No cleaning fees per VRBO or AirBNB. Some have shuttles from airports, more savings. Most have W/D’s in the unit, reducing checked luggage costs. My point is, TS’s can be a great financial investment for the subset of people who travel. Most of the people on this (wonderful) site would agree they save a lot of money by utilizing TS’s.
Financial advisors who are smart should definitely ask their clients if travel is a big part of their plans. Most people get their TS education from a high pressure salesperson at the resort. It would be of great benefit to clients who plan to travel to learn from an advisor how to save a small fortune every trip and how they can then put this money to work in a stock, bond or mutual fund.

 

[uaremymuse]

@uaremymuse You still have not answered my question:

Can you name anything FUN that is a good financial investment compared to stocks?

Pick your poison... enjoying life costs money. You work hard, and save so you can enjoy the fruits of your hard work. You can't take it with you...

Re: Polo Towers. I would not buy this. Vegas is over built with timeshares (supply/demand). We own HGV in Vegas but use the HGVC points to arbitrage into expensive Hawaii and NYC timeshares. This way we pay $985 to get a week in Hawaii or NYC renting for $4000 or more. This is how a TS makes financial sense.

Don't buy in Vegas to stay in Vegas

I’ll repeat what I have already said in prior posts:

I’m a member of an investment vacation club, and yes, it’s a great deal of fun to be able to travel all over the world. The icing on the cake, to borrow a phrase, is knowing that that my investment will (supposed to) pay for all of my vacations in the end. So yes, its a FUN investment compared to stocks even though I find stock investing fun. Even so, there are other FUN investments that aren’t related to real estate or the stock market but I’m not going to address them on this platform as they are not related to TSs which is what this board is used for; I respect the rules. I also enjoy fishing, playing golf, biking, running, going to the gym, volunteering, etc and they are all FUN activities and they are all good investments in both my physical and mental
health but they have nothing to do with my post.

Yes, I agree, and as I’ve stated a number of times, PT is not a good TS to own even when they are obtained at zero costs. Regardless of how much I enjoyed using my weeks, I still lost money on those free PT weeks when I ultimately made the decision to give them away. In financial terms, I lost money as do “all” TS owners when they decide to jettison their TS ownership. (This statement does not take into account any potential perceived savings that people have stated with their specific use, ie not having to eat out, laundry, etc which I would never consider since we all have to eat, wash our clothes, etc.). I suspect if anyone ever recovers their initial sunk cost to own, it might be, and I’m guessing, are with owners of the high end Ritz or Four Seasons TSs that are located in a very high demand areas, ski resorts, Carribean, Orlando/Disney, Hawaii, etc. There may be exceptions, because in the end it always depends on supply and demand metrics. Eg, If I have to have a specific week at a specific resort then I might pay the seller more, etc.

You, and a very few others, seem to want to change my original post into something it’s not. The post stands on its on. There was no agenda, no hidden malicious intent, etc. One person even in a passive/aggressive post suggested that I was trolling the board which is laughable on a number of levels to which I chose not to respond. As I’ve stated many times, there are many who have shared their TS ownership history of enjoyment and that’s wonderful. I can’t question anyone’s happiness or their justifications for ownership. If it works for them it works, period. Some of the responses to my posting were from owners with beautiful family stories which were quite enjoyable to read about. The photos they offered buttressed their wonderful life experiences.

So please stop with the provocative statements and the vacuous inferences. There’s no justification for either in a civil discussion. I have my opinion as does everyone else and that’s what makes the world go round. As with most discussions, one can enjoy reading 99.99% of the responses, the others are just noise and not worthy of responding to and for a number of reasons.

And no, and to preempt your follow up, I am not going to tell you the name of the vacation club because I’m not a licensed investment advisor. I learned a long time ago that the world that we live in is one where one finds people who are looking for an early retirement on the back of others with the litigious society in which we live so I’ve chosen not to expose myself in any way, shape or form. I will say this much, and of course you’ll quickly say that I’m being a bit of a snot, if you’re supposed to know about an investment club like the one I’m a member of, you’d be contacted by them. I’ll give you an example. Do you think the same types of companies contact a person who has a Green American Express card as they do with someone who has a Black one? That, whether one likes it or not, is the society in which we live and it’s relative at every economic level during one’s life.

I’ve probably offered too much in this response and the flame throwers will follow. And that’s ok. I can take the heat from people who really have nothing nice to add to the original post.

This response is intended for your questions so anyone who chooses to respond to it I won’t bother responding to, especially the ugly ones who really have nothing to add. Ad hominem attacks, like 4 letter words, are simple to use when one has no real value to add to a discussion.

Thank you for your comment.




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[uaremymuse]

I agree that financial advisors should not recommend adding TS’s to a portfolio who’s purpose is to provide dividends/interest or growth in value in most cases. But not in all.
But I assumed that by posting on TUG you understood that this is not just a group of knowledgeable TS owners, but also people who love to travel. This is what we do...
Investments can provide gain and growth. Investments can also be used to reduce costs and expenses, allowing our growth investments to grow faster.
TS’s can drastically reduce travel costs. Meals in for a family of six can save $500-$1000 over a week. TS owners pay no sales tax, resort fee or parking (in most instances),!saving another $500 for a weeks stay. No cleaning fees per VRBO or AirBNB. Some have shuttles from airports, more savings. Most have W/D’s in the unit, reducing checked luggage costs. My point is, TS’s can be a great financial investment for the subset of people who travel. Most of the people on this (wonderful) site would agree they save a lot of money by utilizing TS’s.
Financial advisors who are smart should definitely ask their clients if travel is a big part of their plans. Most people get their TS education from a high pressure salesperson at the resort. It would be of great benefit to clients who plan to travel to learn from an advisor how to save a small fortune every trip and how they can then put this money to work in a stock, bond or mutual fund.

Good point but travel desires from a financial planning perspective is on the expense side of the ledger, just like housing costs, which plays into the investment needs side of the ledger.


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[dagger1]

Good point but travel desires from a financial planning perspective is on the expense side of the ledger, just like housing costs, which plays into the investment needs side of the ledger.


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My point is that investments can be utilized on both sides of the ledger to make the number at the bottom greater. A wise investment sage said correctly that “It’s not how much you earn, it’s how much you save...”

 

[uaremymuse]

My point is that investments can be utilized on both sides of the ledger to make the number at the bottom greater. A wise investment sage said correctly that “It’s not how much you earn, it’s how much you save...”

I disagree with your “sage.” It’s both how much you earn and save, which is what I think you meant to say. Regardless, I liked your post.


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[dagger1]

I disagree with your “sage.” It’s both how much you earn and save, which is what I think you meant to say. Regardless, I liked your post.


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No, I meant to say what I said. And I would agree with your comment above about travel being on the ledger side. Travel is not an investment. It’s an expense as you correctly point out, an expense that pays dividends in joy, happiness, fun, education, and maybe even in health. But you asked about TS’s, not travel. My point is that used properly by those who are going to travel, they can definitely be an investment and should be mentioned by an astute financial planner to save his client money (sometimes significant amounts of money). TS’s can be a very useful tool in reducing costs, i.e., an investment.