Tiered Maint fees [Presidential Villas at Plantation Resort, Surfside Beach SC]

[twinmommy19]

We need to see some numbers to see if this is doable BEFORE the meeting. I highly doubt I can make the meeting and am willing to proxy my vote to a TUG member.

Ditto for me. I could potentially be in labor by then, so I'd say a trip to Surfside is definitely out!

For whoever is going to the meeting, we should really try to come up with a list of alternative suggestions that could help make blue season ownership more attractive or help the resort generate extra capital. My suggestions (some already mentioned):

1) Loosening up the floating period on a last minute basis for all owners
2) Day usage privileges throughout the year. Appeal to local owners maybe?
3) Bonus time privilege option at the cost of maintenance fees?
4) Charge a fee to lock out unit (not ideal but better than increasing MFs)

 

[csxjohn]

.... My suggestions (some already mentioned):

1) Loosening up the floating period on a last minute basis for all owners
2) Day usage privileges throughout the year. Appeal to local owners maybe?
...

My resort does both of these and it does help the preferred owners get more value from their ownership.

They can take a prime week if there is one available but needs to be within 2 weeks of check in, not ideal but better than nothing. They pay an upgrade fee of $112.50.

The day use is nice for anyone living nearby or passing through and staying with friends or in a motel for a few days.

These are both ideas that I'm sure will help a little.

 

[vckempson]

I don't think unsold inventory is the reason for excess availability. My understanding (based on my family's visit) is that the resort isn't really pushing RCI weeks deeds anymore - they are almost exclusively selling new points deeds now and have been for quite some time. Points give the resort a ton of flexibility with deposits. .

Thanks for that update. I'm intrigued by the idea of allowing mudd season owners access to unused summer weeks. It would certainly be worth trying.

I just don't see, though, how there is anything unused, other than developer weeks/points. If you own a summer week, you're going to either use it or bank it. All the banked weeks get taken as exchanges in RCI before 60 days out, I'd think. Summer is obviously high demand at the beach. Wouldn't the ONLY reason you found last minute availability be because of developer owned units?

BTW, I still haven't gotten anything in the mail.

 

[vckempson]

Call me jaded, but I don't buy the mud week defaults as what's driving this proposal. I don't doubt the mud week problems but Myrtle Beach doesn't have the same level of mud week problems as many places. First off Spring and Fall are great times for golf, which is a huge draw in Myrtle Beach. Winter traffic, while the slowest time, isn't completely dead.

I keep thinking about what's in it for the developer. The majority of their remaining inventory has to be blue weeks. (weeks or points, still the same) Developer sales are slow as molasses for the last 7+ years. They can't give away blue weeks and they have a big nut to crack each year covering the full MF for each unit. The developer would then have a direct motivation to reduce their carry cost to help their bottom line.

If defaults were a big issue, we'd have seen meaningful continued increases in MF's year after year... and we haven't. Currently, this tiered MF idea seems to be something self serving to the developer. Otherwise, why would a developer care about making this change retroactive. Assuming it's still a developer controlled HOA, this all make intuitive sense to me.

What documents would list defaults over the last few years? How large, as a percentage, is too large to drive a need for something like this?

 

[JudyH]

We had been told that day use was available. We always camped ocean front in MB and just drove over to Surfside to check things out.

 

[twinmommy19]

Call me jaded, but I don't buy the mud week defaults as what's driving this proposal. I don't doubt the mud week problems but Myrtle Beach doesn't have the same level of mud week problems as many places. First off Spring and Fall are great times for golf, which is a huge draw in Myrtle Beach. Winter traffic, while the slowest time, isn't completely dead.

The fall and spring red weeks would not be a default problem. Trading power isn't bad on those weeks to begin with and the points side gives 88,500 points for those weeks - with a $720 maintenance fee. That's still a better exchange rate than most places.

You may be right about the resort having trouble selling the blue weeks, but they certainly are not going to be sucessful at selling the remaining red weeks if they increase mainenance fees by 50%.

 

[twinmommy19]

I just don't see, though, how there is anything unused, other than developer weeks/points. If you own a summer week, you're going to either use it or bank it. All the banked weeks get taken as exchanges in RCI before 60 days out, I'd think. Summer is obviously high demand at the beach. Wouldn't the ONLY reason you found last minute availability be because of developer owned units?

I'm not sure how the pool of available weeks in the floating range work. All I can tell you is that we had to wait for our week to finally clear the Horry County records to reserve our "free usage" week for 2013 that came with our purchase. This didn't happen until May / June timeframe. There was no availability remaining for early July, but we had our choice of the last week in July through week 38. Everything else was still available to us at that time. When we chose an August 10th check in, we were asked our preference of floor (first or second) and granted our request for a unit within close proximity of the pool area.

Regardless of where those vacant units are coming from, the reality is that there will always be some availability in April, May, September and October. The resort is huge and if it hasn't happened already - the resort isn't selling out all those remaining retail weeks. Most TS resorts don't ever sell out 100%of weeks. So while a January owner may not always be able to snag a late August week, certainly they would have a decent shot at consistently booking a much better week than what's available during their own season (for either trading or direct usage purposes) if you allowed them to book outside their season at last minute.

I also think that bonus time could be a huge hit at this resort. Many of the units are 3BR and sleep 12 people which is a rarity in any of the beach areas on the east coast. Maybe more local owners would actually choose to stay rather than trade and confirm a second unit for an extended family trip. We asked about preferred rental rates and were told there was a 10% discount - so it would have cost us $1,600 for a second week. Way too much - not a perk at all.

My parents, by the way, were very pleased with their unit at Pres Villas - it was well kept, fairly modern and very clean. It's true that it's not located directly on the beach, but the grounds are also significantly nicer than most of the other dinky beach front properties. The pools are really great and my family actually liked the Surfside area better than the congested Myrtle area. They found it to be more upscale.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Carl lives near there, I cannot remember exactly where. I just sold a week to him a few months ago. He owns others, too, with his wife and daughters. I think he might go to the meeting.

 

[gnorth16]

FYI a blue week biennial 3BR/3BA has a buy it now for $19 on eBay with free closing and a $100 visa gift card. Can't even give them away!


Tapatalk via iPhone (I need a vacation)

 

[poolshark021]

I just got this notice in the mail from Plantation. I also don't trust the motive behind this vote. Why can't they show some numbers before? Why do they tell you "just come to the meeting"? Because they know the majority of owners won't be able to show up.

I can't make the meeting, and I am all for giving my proxy vote to someone who feels the same as me.

 

[glenmore]

In case anyone has not seen the communication from Plantation Resort, here iis the info in the Journey's End newsletter I received with a copy of my monthly maintenance bill:

Our search to find innovative ways to reduce defaults and uncollectible dues in your Home Owner's Association (H)A) budget continues.

As a part of this effort, beginning in 2015, we are proposing to change portions of the maintenance fee from a fixed amount paid by every owner in the HOA to a variable fee structure based on the type of week each owner purchased. The new fee will better reflect factors such as seasonality, amenities available during your season, the cost to operate these amenities and other factors. (No matter the season, the indoor pool, the shuttle bus, the recreation center and the fitness center are available - it is only the outdoor pool and children's area with the lazy river that are not available during the colder months.)

Our research indicates that this change in fees will reduce the amount of defaults and uncollectible dues that are being absorbed by every owner in the HOA and will be more fair and equitable with HOA costs among owners.

For example, there are more amenities available for your enjoyment in the warmer months of the year. The lazy river and the outdoor pool are much more enjoyable in July than in January. Accordingly, it is more equitable for those who don't receive these benefits to pay a little less. (Again, no matter the season, the indoor pool, the shuttle bus, the recreation center and the fitness center are available - it is only the outdoor pool and children's area with the lazy river that are not available during the colder months.)

We anticipate that this change will also reduce the number of unsold accounts in the HOA. If potential owners cannot afford the higher maintenance fee of a summer week purchase, they will now have the opportunity to purchase and successfully pay a lesser off-season fee. (We do not know which owners are not paying, nor how many.)

We foresee that this change will offer valuable additional benefits to you as owners. It will give points owners who would like to add more points to their account the ability to do so at a more affordable off-season rate. Weeks owners will also be able to purchase an additional week of vacation in the off-season at a more affordable cost. (This is a valuable benefit?????)

Once again, our ultimate goal is to benefit every owner through increased efficiency, more dues paying owners and fewer uncollectible dues.

This change will be submitted for approval at the upcoming March annual HOA Meeting pursuant to the amendment provisions of your Declaration of Interval Ownership Rights, Restrictions, Affirmative Obligations, Conditions, Etc. Feel free to contact us at reservations@planationresort.com or 1-800-845-5039 should you have questions or comments. (Does anyone have a copy of the Declaration of Interval Ownership Rights, Restrictions, Affirmative Obligations, Conditions, Etc??)

 

[bogey21]

So Ill take my suggestion to the next level. The hoa should make an effort to take back all the blue and white weeks, Then take the budget and divide by the number red week intervals. That will be the new mf for red week owners. Then any redweek owner can reserve a blue/white week or two or three as they see fit. the rental fee can be what they think these weeks are worth

I think this idea has merit. If the Resort has an inventory of Red Weeks, they could even offer to exchange (for a fee) a Red Week for a Blue or White Week.

George

 

[ronparise]

Call me jaded, but I don't buy the mud week defaults as what's driving this proposal. I don't doubt the mud week problems but Myrtle Beach doesn't have the same level of mud week problems as many places. First off Spring and Fall are great times for golf, which is a huge draw in Myrtle Beach. Winter traffic, while the slowest time, isn't completely dead.

I keep thinking about what's in it for the developer. The majority of their remaining inventory has to be blue weeks. (weeks or points, still the same) Developer sales are slow as molasses for the last 7+ years. They can't give away blue weeks and they have a big nut to crack each year covering the full MF for each unit. The developer would then have a direct motivation to reduce their carry cost to help their bottom line.

If defaults were a big issue, we'd have seen meaningful continued increases in MF's year after year... and we haven't. Currently, this tiered MF idea seems to be something self serving to the developer. Otherwise, why would a developer care about making this change retroactive. Assuming it's still a developer controlled HOA, this all make intuitive sense to me.

What documents would list defaults over the last few years? How large, as a percentage, is too large to drive a need for something like this?

I own at a resort where the bad debt is about 17% of the budget. I took the bad debt and divided by the average mf/ interval, to figure about how many units were in default or in the control or ownership of the hoa. I dont know how long the number has been at 17% or how long it took to get here.

What this place does is to offer the hoa controlled weeks to the owners,. If I want an exrta week, all I have to do is ask, and pay the mf. as a result the other income line in the budget almost exactly covers the bad debt line

This works because this is a near 100% floating weeks resort and its red 52 weeks of the year. So there is demand for these rtu weeks. The problem we have is one that all sold out floating weeks resorts have and that is a lot of owners wait too long to pay mf and make reservations so at the end of the year they find no availability

 

[twinmommy19]

Wow - Cullen was 100% correct.

I think I see pretty clearly what the resort is doing now that someone posted the complete letter. I'll even go out on a limb and predict what the new maintenance fees will be. This isn't about the resort struggling with a default rate - that's a load of crap. Cullen and gnorth are right - this resort hasn't historically raised maintenance fees much and has always kept the resort up to date. Plus only a small part of the year is truly "mud season". It didn't add up.

This is about selling RCI points packages. Think about this - right now a 3BR has a maintenance fee of $720. That converts to:

Summer Red = 104K points
Golf Red = 88.5K points
White = I'm not sure - I don't know that I've ever seen a package.
Blue = 31.5K points

Anyone want to bet that the new maintenance fee on the blue weeks will be less than $315? The golf red weeks will go up but remain lower than $885 and the summer red owners can expect to pay an amount slightly lower than $1,040. The resort knows this is the only way it can sell those blue and white weeks - the weeks have to have annual cost of less than a penny a point. Their "research" is a matter of seeing how places like the Grandview are able to sell small points contracts despite the reality that most people buying those contracts have no intention of ever staying at the Grandview.

From a marketing perspective, it's a pretty smart move on their part. However - it doesn't seem like a legal course of action to me - majority or not. Let's say someone randomly proposed a change to triple the maintenance of a July 4th fixed owner of a beach week simply because it's the most popular week and the resort gets the most wear and tear at that time. Well week 27 owners only make up 1/52 of the vote so clearly they would lose the vote, but obviously this wouldn't be allowed, right? That's essentially what this change would be. Nobody who owns a week 20-38 contract would vote in favor of a $300 a year fee hike. And I doubt owners of the spring season weeks would vote in favor of a $130 fee increase either. But yet it doesn't matter as someone pointed out since obviously the development owns enough weeks to carry the vote. If they didn't - this wouldn't be happening.

 

[twinmommy19]

I think this idea has merit. If the Resort has an inventory of Red Weeks, they could even offer to exchange (for a fee) a Red Week for a Blue or White Week.

They could do this anyway. It's always possible to upgrade a mud season week, it just costs a lot to do so and still would, I'm sure.

 

[vckempson]

In case anyone has not seen the communication from Plantation Resort, here iis

...We anticipate that this change will also reduce the number of unsold accounts in the HOA. If potential owners cannot afford the higher maintenance fee of a summer week purchase, they will now have the opportunity to purchase and successfully pay a lesser off-season fee. (We do not know which owners are not paying, nor how many.)

Well there it is, right in black and white. "This will also reduce the number of unsold accounts in the HOA." Notice it doesn't say the HOA owns these units. That would be bad for all the owners. These are unsold units (still owned by the developer) that are in the HOA. The developer is having a hard time selling them but they still have to pay the full MF each year. Having a tiered MF both reduces their MF liability each year and makes it easier to sell all those off week units.

I'm going to call tomorrow and request the following.

1. Copy of Declaration of Interval Ownership Rights, Restrictions, Affirmative Obligations, Conditions, Etc.
2. Latest audited financials.
3. Number of Unsold units in HOA and Number of sold units
4. % of MF's in default
5. Financial impact per unit of defaults on the MF
6. Determination of whether HOA is independent or developer controlled.

Anyone have anything else I should be asking? I'd like to start to piece this together. Unfortunately, to fight something like this, you need to mail all the owners and solicit their proxy vote. That's not likely something able to be paid for by a single individual.

 

[Joe33426]

I'm going to call tomorrow and request the following.

1. Copy of Declaration of Interval Ownership Rights, Restrictions, Affirmative Obligations, Conditions, Etc.
2. Latest audited financials.
3. Number of Unsold units in HOA and Number of sold units
4. % of MF's in default
5. Financial impact per unit of defaults on the MF
6. Determination of whether HOA is independent or developer controlled.

The Association is unlikely to have #4 and #5 in report form, so it would be easiest just to compute these on your own. Instead of those items, I would request the most current financial statement along with an aged delinquency report. You might also request a copy of the 2014 approved budget. #6 on your list could likely be determined from note 1 of the audited financial statements, which usually discloses this fact.

I haven't reviewed SC laws, but in FL, owners have the right to inspect the records and make photocopy after written request with a fine for non-compliance. Associations here aren't required to send owners financial information, create reports, etc. on demand. So, you might try to see if the Association or management company's website has an owners' section where the audit, budgets, or other financial statements might already be posted. For example, Daily Management, posts audits and budgets for VV @ Parkway on their website.

 

[compubarn]

Anyone have anything else I should be asking? I'd like to start to piece this together. Unfortunately, to fight something like this, you need to mail all the owners and solicit their proxy vote. That's not likely something able to be paid for by a single individual.

I own at the resort too and I'm not happy about this situation.
When you call the resort, please ask for the policy on communication between owners. We should be able to either get the email distribution list of other owners or have the resort send out an email to other owners on our behalf. They may limit this to each HOA and there are quite a few of them at this resort.

Please keep us posted.
Thank you.

 

[twinmommy19]

Thanks vckempson! Please let me know if there is anything I can do to help. These days, sleeping through the night has become a challenge so I have lots of time on my hands for TUG

The tone of this letter doesn't make it sound as if this is a dire cash flow problem. I doubt most resorts ever sell out 100% especially in an offseason. It's pretty obvious though that they want to sell the remaining contracts, but it has to be near impossible to sell retail weeks in the off season at any resort that isn't brand new. HOA knows that RCI points is their only chance but the maintenance per point would have to be competitive with other points deeds. That has to be driving this. When they started selling points contracts they should have created a 4th RCI code and set up a different fee structure for it. Maybe there is a way they can still do this for new deeds? As someone pointed out, only 5 weeks of the year fall into blue season and white season isn't very long either.

 

[vckempson]

It's been a busy day and I just now had a chance to call Plantation Resorts. For over 20 minutes I got the run around and kept getting transferred back to reservations. The upshot is that we need to speak with Karla the General Mananager at x1098. Neither she nor her voicemail is picking up. I was told by one person to come to the annual meeting. I said, "yes, planning on it, but I want to be informed and get the necessary information beforehand." I also tried to talk with someone in accounting and couldn't get a live person.

Reading between the lines, they aren't owner friendly; more likely they are developer friendly. I also asked for the names of the board members and their contact information. I'd think they have an obligation to field calls from members.

I've checked their website and they don't have any financials on there. If they won't copy and mail, not sure how to address that. I'm certainly not going to travel from Jersey to SC just to get the financials. I'm from South Carolina but I don't know anyone that lives near Myrtle Beach. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

I'll try again every hour from here on out until I have a conversation with the right person. Tomorrow is a light day and I can start calling right at 9:00 a.m.

 

[glenmore]

It seems a plan is developing. I called Plantation Resort today to ask when and where the meeting was. I was told the date of the meeting is March 21, 2014, but the person said they did not know the time or place . . . . yet.

I asked if the proposed variable maintenance dues was only for Presidential Villas at Plantation Resort, or for all the timeshares and the person said they were for ALL the timeshares there.

There are over 20 HOAs on property, so this has to cover a huge amount of timeshares and weeks.

 

[twinmommy19]

I've checked their website and they don't have any financials on there. If they won't copy and mail, not sure how to address that.

The financials are important, but probably not as important as a list of owner mailing addresses or email addressed. The thing with the financials is that if the developer is still paying for the unsold units, they won't show up in the fees receivable balance, right? I'm certainly not an expert on timeshare financial statements though...

In this case - power is going to be in numbers, so getting contact information will be critical. Other than posting messages on the resorts social media pages (which they can remove if they want to), I'm not sure how else we can get that list unless the resort cooperates. Either that or dig through years and years of Horry County deed public records but that would be very difficult.

 

[twinmommy19]

It seems a plan is developing. I called Plantation Resort today to ask when and where the meeting was. I was told the date of the meeting is March 21, 2014, but the person said they did not know the time or place . . . . yet.

I don't understand how they can get away with withholding the amount of the proposed fee and other pertinent information from owners in advance of the meeting. They keep saying "come to the meeting" but they know that most owners do not live anywhere near Plantation Resorts and this would be expensive and infeasible for most. I too live in NJ and being that I am due to give birth two weeks later - there is just no way my husband or I can attend.

Any lawyers on here know if owners have a right to demand a bridge line for this meeting, being its importance? At this day in age, there should be a proctored call in number so that owners at least have an option to participate / listen to a proposed policy changing meeting of this magnitude remotely. I still don't think we'd get a majority to participate but forcing the masses to drop everything and fly to South Carolina as the only option to be able to hear the facts seems incredibly unreasonable.

 

[gnorth16]

Anyone want to bet that the new maintenance fee on the blue weeks will be less than $315? The golf red weeks will go up but remain lower than $885 and the summer red owners can expect to pay an amount slightly lower than $1,040.

If my red week goes to $1040, I will gladly deed it back to the resort to resell. That, or just give it away...

 

[twinmommy19]

If my red week goes to $1040, I will gladly deed it back to the resort to resell. That, or just give it away...

The language in the letter said - it's logical for red week owners to pay a "little" more than blue week owners for access to more amenities. A 50%+ hike in fees would not be a little, so we'll have to see what's actually being proposed. Anyone hear anything else?

I just don't see the resort being able to sell those remaining points weeks in blue season successfully unless they could get the fees down to around a penny a point.