[ Thread is unlocked ] Megarenter Rap Lawsuit

[Herbaltees]

But everyone had the same opportunity to book......

But Wyndham seems to have gone the other way with CWA. I guess its easier to tell every owner they can book Bike Week instead of only being able to sell it to one person.

^^^ Agreed. 100% true. how many sales were generated by the same 1/2 truth. Sure you CAN stay here for bike week, but not without considerable advanced planning and some luck.

 

[Herbaltees]

I see many differences. One is that the MRs are targeting key locations and dates. The second is you are putting a casual family vacation planner up against a business. Its kind of like a franchise owner of a Subway who charges $25 a sandwich because no other sandwich's are available and you are hungry against any owner who walks in to a Subway with inventory and pays a fair price of $5 for the sandwich. Another it is a little like price gouging during as well. Also, Wyndam is a brand and has the right to control who sells their product.

Okay didn't think of the fact that wyndham has the right to control who markets and sells their product. That is a good point.

 

[CO skier]

I also don't understand how getting rid of the mega renter increases availability? I'm a newbie resale owner, so help me understand. If one owner with 67M points is forced to liquidate his/ her portfolio doesn't that mean there are now potentially 67 new owners with 1M points still trying to get La Belle Masion for mardi gras? I see it getting worse not better, or am I missing something?

You must have missed the following post, which mirrors your thinking, and the reply.

When wyndham resells the mega renters 700 million points, you will have 2000+ regular owners booking those points so no additional inventory will open up.

The big difference, that some people just cannot understand, is that 700 million points of availability opened up that Owners will book and use for their personal vacations (undeniably a good thing for the Club and Owners), and 700 million points of availability will no longer be offered as rentals (good or bad thing does not matter, because non-owners have no status in Club Wyndham).

That is how Owners will benefit in the future at the expense of renters. Judging by the millions of Club Wyndham points being dumped on Ebay, the improvement is already underway.

There is no guarantee that any specific inventory will open at any specific resort for any specific time. The 700 million points of reservations must have been profitable, so they must have greater than average desirability (they were not mud week reservations, for example), so 700 million points of desirable vacations throughout Club Wyndham will be booked by owners for their personal vacations after the megarenters dropped the 700 million points of contracts.

 

[Braindead]

Can we all agree on a few items?
All rentals are commercial activity.
It doesn’t matter if you do 1 a year or a 1,000 a year it’s commercial activity.
Almost all owners have rented units. I’m in this group.
It doesn’t matter if an owner checks in for a renter or uses a GC it’s still commercial activity.
If an owner receives any compensation at all it’s a rental & commercial activity. Even if the price doesn’t cover the MFs on the points used it’s still a rental.

A couple of examples to back up the above items.
You do auto repair in your garage at home & some clients are family or friends cars while receiving any compensation even just a tip it’s commercial.
You do house cleaning & some clients are family or friends houses while receiving any compensation even just a tip it’s commercial.
An example less extreme, while staying at Canterbury in San Francisco we noticed all the mini grocery marts & they‘re commercial just like Wal Mart is commercial.

I’m not for eliminating rentals & I don’t think hardly any owners are. I don’t think Wyndham is either.
I’m not for eliminating family & friends vacations. I sure hope NO owners are either. I’m pretty sure Wyndham isn’t either.

So what’s the answer? My opinions
1. No discounts & or upgrades using GCs.
2. Resorts have to help on owners checking in for rentals. An owner doing rentals lives close by a resort & is constantly checking in. There’s only a few employees assigning unit numbers they know who they are.
3. Get control of the amount of GCs being used by a few. Raising the cost & less free ones.
4. I’m open to a family & friends list.

I’m 100% against the current blackout list ruining family & friends group vacations & hope it goes away ASAP. Tomorrow isn’t soon enough for me!!!
This is the worst thing Wyndham could’ve come up with IMHO!! Wyndham stop punishing practically all owners with the blackout list!!!!!!

 

[Herbaltees]

So what’s the answer? My opinions
1. No discounts & or upgrades using GCs.
2. Resorts have to help on owners checking in for rentals. An owner doing rentals lives close by a resort & is constantly checking in. There’s only a few employees assigning unit numbers they know who they are.
3. Get control of the amount of GCs being used by a few. Raising the cost & less free ones.
4. I’m open to a family & friends list.

I’m 100% against the current blackout list ruining family & friends group vacations & hope it goes away ASAP. Tomorrow isn’t soon enough for me!!!
This is the worst thing Wyndham could’ve come up with IMHO!! Wyndham stop punishing practically all owners with the blackout list!!!!!!

1&3- But wouldn't this still an issue I know I read MR were adding their names to the reservation and then removing later?

What is the blackout list?

 

[Eric B]

Can we all agree on a few items?
All rentals are commercial activity.
It doesn’t matter if you do 1 a year or a 1,000 a year it’s commercial activity.
Almost all owners have rented units. I’m in this group.
It doesn’t matter if an owner checks in for a renter or uses a GC it’s still commercial activity.
If an owner receives any compensation at all it’s a rental & commercial activity. Even if the price doesn’t cover the MFs on the points used it’s still a rental.

A couple of examples to back up the above items.
You do auto repair in your garage at home & some clients are family or friends cars while receiving any compensation even just a tip it’s commercial.
You do house cleaning & some clients are family or friends houses while receiving any compensation even just a tip it’s commercial.
An example less extreme, while staying at Canterbury in San Francisco we noticed all the mini grocery marts & they‘re commercial just like Wal Mart is commercial.

I’m not for eliminating rentals & I don’t think hardly any owners are. I don’t think Wyndham is either.
I’m not for eliminating family & friends vacations. I sure hope NO owners are either. I’m pretty sure Wyndham isn’t either.

So what’s the answer? My opinions
1. No discounts & or upgrades using GCs.
2. Resorts have to help on owners checking in for rentals. An owner doing rentals lives close by a resort & is constantly checking in. There’s only a few employees assigning unit numbers they know who they are.
3. Get control of the amount of GCs being used by a few. Raising the cost & less free ones.
4. I’m open to a family & friends list.

I’m 100% against the current blackout list ruining family & friends group vacations & hope it goes away ASAP. Tomorrow isn’t soon enough for me!!!
This is the worst thing Wyndham could’ve come up with IMHO!! Wyndham stop punishing practically all owners with the blackout list!!!!!!

The answer to your first question is probably "no, we can't all agree on those items." I for one have been prevented by an external entity (the IRS) from taking passive activity losses against my ordinary income to gain the tax benefits for having a rental that is losing money in the short term because I don't meet specific criteria to be considered doing it as a business (IIRC, spending in excess of 750 hours per year on my rentals, earning more than 50% of my income from them). If I am not considered by the Federal government to be engaged in a commercial enterprise that can lose money, why should I be considered engaging in commercial use of my timeshare if I rent the usage to someone else to just cover my maintenance fees? It's all really a very context-specific decision on whether someone is doing something for "commercial purposes," which is what the directory says the program is not for. (The actual wording used is "The Program is for a Member’s own personal use and enjoyment and not for any commercial purposes." It's on page 254. It is written as a statement about the purpose of Club Wyndham Plus, not a directive that members cannot rent their points. This is at the heart of what the problem is - Wyndham has done a poor job of stating what is and what is not acceptable behavior.)

 

[VacayKat]

Can we all agree on a few items?
All rentals are commercial activity.
It doesn’t matter if you do 1 a year or a 1,000 a year it’s commercial activity.
Almost all owners have rented units. I’m in this group.
It doesn’t matter if an owner checks in for a renter or uses a GC it’s still commercial activity.
If an owner receives any compensation at all it’s a rental & commercial activity. Even if the price doesn’t cover the MFs on the points used it’s still a rental.

A couple of examples to back up the above items.
You do auto repair in your garage at home & some clients are family or friends cars while receiving any compensation even just a tip it’s commercial.
You do house cleaning & some clients are family or friends houses while receiving any compensation even just a tip it’s commercial.
An example less extreme, while staying at Canterbury in San Francisco we noticed all the mini grocery marts & they‘re commercial just like Wal Mart is commercial.

I’m not for eliminating rentals & I don’t think hardly any owners are. I don’t think Wyndham is either.
I’m not for eliminating family & friends vacations. I sure hope NO owners are either. I’m pretty sure Wyndham isn’t either.

So what’s the answer? My opinions
1. No discounts & or upgrades using GCs.
2. Resorts have to help on owners checking in for rentals. An owner doing rentals lives close by a resort & is constantly checking in. There’s only a few employees assigning unit numbers they know who they are.
3. Get control of the amount of GCs being used by a few. Raising the cost & less free ones.
4. I’m open to a family & friends list.

I’m 100% against the current blackout list ruining family & friends group vacations & hope it goes away ASAP. Tomorrow isn’t soon enough for me!!!
This is the worst thing Wyndham could’ve come up with IMHO!! Wyndham stop punishing practically all owners with the blackout list!!!!!!

I disagree with your #1 - I try to maximize my points even MORE when there are family members traveling with us. For my family I'd book a 1-bed which is squishy and hope to GOD for a 2-bed upgrade, and I will do that for extended family as well. Also - who wouldn't want to give a family member a last minute quick get away if it was available in the discount period and didn't take that many points? Also, the few times I've rented to recoup some $$, I did it with the dregs of the inventory left in the 60 day window- if you make me pay full point cost for it then I'm going to book the highest demand resort at the highest demand week so I can get maximum compensation. That just shoots everyone in the foot if the goal is to reduce renters holding inventory and releasing it.

 

[Cyrus24]

Agree with everything you state. Don’t like no discounts or upgrades when using GCs. But, I could live with it.

1. No discounts & or upgrades using GCs

 

[CO skier]

I’m 100% against the current blackout list ruining family & friends group vacations & hope it goes away ASAP. Tomorrow isn’t soon enough for me!!!
This is the worst thing Wyndham could’ve come up with IMHO!! Wyndham stop punishing practically all owners with the blackout list!!!!!!

There are many people who want Club Wyndham customized for their particular usage pattern. I thought that up to an additional 9 reservations were allowed for "family & friends groups" if the owner's reservation overlapped. That seems generous.

In WorldMark, less than 20% of owners add a guest to a reservation. WorldMark does not offer a 50% discount to VIPs, so the percentage is probably somewhat higher in Club Wyndham due to commercial renting based on the 50% discount. It is reasonable, though, to surmise that the changes in Club Wyndham that affect guest usage definitely are not "punishing all owners."

 

[paxsarah]

so 700 million points of desirable vacations throughout Club Wyndham will be booked by owners for their personal vacations after the megarenters dropped the 700 million points of contracts.

In order for that 700 million points of availability to become available to owners, those contracts must have been sold (whether through resale or repackaged by Wyndham as retail) to new owners. As I see it, the equation is now:
(Preexisting owners) - (eliminated megarenters) + (new owners who purchased MR points) = competition for reservations

As an existing owner, am I not still in basically the same level of competition for reservations, just different people own some of the points now? My personal availability does not improve. I understand the argument that the goal is to get more “regular” owners and fewer renters into reservations, and I see how this is true in the aggregate. I do not see how it benefits existing owners, unless I’m supposed to feel better knowing that my competition for reservations is now more regular folk like me and not those horrible megarenters. But I don’t feel better, because I simply don’t care.

 

[troy12n]

The answer to your first question is probably "no, we can't all agree on those items." I for one have been prevented by an external entity (the IRS) from taking passive activity losses against my ordinary income to gain the tax benefits for having a rental that is losing money in the short term because I don't meet specific criteria to be considered doing it as a business (IIRC, spending in excess of 750 hours per year on my rentals, earning more than 50% of my income from them). If I am not considered by the Federal government to be engaged in a commercial enterprise that can lose money, why should I be considered engaging in commercial use of my timeshare if I rent the usage to someone else to just cover my maintenance fees? It's all really a very context-specific decision on whether someone is doing something for "commercial purposes," which is what the directory says the program is not for. (The actual wording used is "The Program is for a Member’s own personal use and enjoyment and not for any commercial purposes." It's on page 254. It is written as a statement about the purpose of Club Wyndham Plus, not a directive that members cannot rent their points. This is at the heart of what the problem is - Wyndham has done a poor job of stating what is and what is not acceptable behavior.)

Gonna throw it out there that even if you can't claim passive losses on your timeshare adventures, you are still required by the IRS to pay income tax on it. On top of that, you have to pay the "self employment tax". Self employment income is, in fact, considered business income. It's even taxed higher because of that.

You can't have it both ways on this item. Furthermore, regardless of what the IRS says, most states and even some municipalities have even further requirements on what constitutes a business enterprise. Specifically those businesses involving sales. In some states you have to file quarterly reports with the state BPR, there are also in some cases licensing requirements, etc.

So no, your argument really falls flat on it's face.

 

[rapmarks]

I have to say I am feeling the pain of losing out to renters at Christmas Mountain. I have been trying since April to book my flex weeks so my sisters can come for a visit, totally open on any time. I call and not even two nights available, even though traditionally end of august and month of September are slow. I am told a date is available and to call the next day. I call at opening and there is no availability for anything. Then I see posts on Facebook renting the times I have tried to get.
A Tugger from the past used to boast about all his bookings. He would have a dozen bookings for the same week and if he didn't rent them, he would just let them sit empty, because the system didn't charge him if he didn't check in. Meanwhile no availability .
I think favoritism is not happening now, but it did several years ago. The ownership gives one red week at a time A woman used to come and use her red week for 16 days, the limit was 7, go home for a week, back for 16 days, all through the summer. then she would travel all winter on her spacebanked weeks through RCI. No way it is possible unless someone is helping out. She would claim the extra weekend was bonus time, and she did it for years.
I can see why people are resentful of mega renters, such as renters who book bonus time which is supposed to be for personal use and rent it out.

 

[VacayKat]

Gonna throw it out there that even if you can't claim passive losses on your timeshare adventures, you are still required by the IRS to pay income tax on it. On top of that, you have to pay the "self employment tax". Self employment income is, in fact, considered business income. It's even taxed higher because of that.

You can't have it both ways on this item. Furthermore, regardless of what the IRS says, most states and even some municipalities have even further requirements on what constitutes a business enterprise. Specifically those businesses involving sales. In some states you have to file quarterly reports with the state BPR, there are also in some cases licensing requirements, etc.

So no, your argument really falls flat on it's face.

But you did make an excellent reminder to all the folks who use craigslist, garage sales or person to person sales for any of their belongings or anything they create [or for that matter receive gifts] - they are obligated to do exactly as you mention- PSA to all folks who get any money for anything, if you do not report it on your tax filings, you could end up just like Al Capone!

 

[Roger830]

But you did make an excellent reminder to all the folks who use craigslist, garage sales or person to person sales for any of their belongings or anything they create [or for that matter receive gifts] - they are obligated to do exactly as you mention- PSA to all folks who get any money for anything, if you do not report it on your tax filings, you could end up just like Al Capone!

Yeh!
And pay tax on the money received for attending sales presentations, I mean updates.

 

[troy12n]

But you did make an excellent reminder to all the folks who use craigslist, garage sales or person to person sales for any of their belongings or anything they create [or for that matter receive gifts] - they are obligated to do exactly as you mention- PSA to all folks who get any money for anything, if you do not report it on your tax filings, you could end up just like Al Capone!

Again, the absurdity of your arguments comes screaming through... the lengths some of you will go to to justify your actions

 

[VacayKat]

Again, the absurdity of your arguments comes screaming through... the lengths some of you will go to to justify your actions

WTH? literally I supported your position and you attack me? I guess it is time to stop seeing your posts.

 

[Mongoose]

I disagree with your #1 - I try to maximize my points even MORE when there are family members traveling with us. For my family I'd book a 1-bed which is squishy and hope to GOD for a 2-bed upgrade, and I will do that for extended family as well. Also - who wouldn't want to give a family member a last minute quick get away if it was available in the discount period and didn't take that many points? Also, the few times I've rented to recoup some $$, I did it with the dregs of the inventory left in the 60 day window- if you make me pay full point cost for it then I'm going to book the highest demand resort at the highest demand week so I can get maximum compensation. That just shoots everyone in the foot if the goal is to reduce renters holding inventory and releasing it.

I also disagree with point #1. I have rented rooms at the last minute when I had points expiring. I did this to avoid the loss of MFs and rented them at discounted prices. I don't think renting at a loss to avoid point forfeiture is the same as a MR that goes out of his way to make it a business. I think they should simply limit Rentals/GC's to 2 plus a maximum of 20% of your points. The majority of your TS activity should be your own stays.

 

[troy12n]

WTH? literally I supported your position and you attack me? I guess it is time to stop seeing your posts.

Do what you need to do. But you compared people making thousands of dollars in undocumented income to someone who might make $150 from a day of selling their junk at a garage sale... come on now

 

[Mongoose]

But you did make an excellent reminder to all the folks who use craigslist, garage sales or person to person sales for any of their belongings or anything they create [or for that matter receive gifts] - they are obligated to do exactly as you mention- PSA to all folks who get any money for anything, if you do not report it on your tax filings, you could end up just like Al Capone!

If you are selling something for less than you paid for it its not income. Example, a garage sale where your wife sells a $150 Coach purse for $1. Yep, experienced that one as well.

Casual sellers engage in infrequent sales
When the sales price is less than what was originally paid for an item, no capital gain is realized. If you purchased a new lawn mower for $250 and later sold it for $50, that is not a $50 capital gain. Instead it is a $200 personal loss, which isn’t tax deductible.

 

[CO skier]

In order for that 700 million points of availability to become available to owners, those contracts must have been sold (whether through resale or repackaged by Wyndham as retail) to new owners.

This is not true. The Club inventory represented by the 700 million points is continuously available for any member to book during sales and transfer time. Wyndham does not withdraw X number of that 700 million points that that they take back through Certified Exit from Club Wyndham; it remains available for booking throughout the holding, sale and transfer time, just like a private sale. Unlike a private sale, Wyndham's use of its share of that 700 million points is restricted to 60-days, so >60-day availability definitely increases and especially in the short term until all of Wyndham's share of the 700 million points are sold.

As I see it, the equation is now:
(Preexisting owners) - (eliminated megarenters) + (new owners who purchased MR points) = competition for reservations

As an existing owner, am I not still in basically the same level of competition for reservations, just different people own some of the points now? My personal availability does not improve.

Let us look at how your equation works for 13-month reservations where, statistically, only about 10% of the resold 700 million points would be targeted at the 13-month booking window

(Preexisting owners who book at 13 months) - (eliminated megarenters who book at 13 months) + (new owners who purchased MR points) - (90% of new owners who purchased MR points and do not book at 13 months) = noticeably less competition for reservations at 13 months

I understand the argument that the goal is to get more “regular” owners and fewer renters into reservations, and I see how this is true in the aggregate. I do not see how it benefits existing owners, unless I’m supposed to feel better knowing that my competition for reservations is now more regular folk like me and not those horrible megarenters. But I don’t feel better, because I simply don’t care.

You understand how there will be more "regular" owners reservations and fewer renter reservations, but you do not see how it benefits existing owners?

It will be some existing owners and some new owners of the 700 million ex-MR points who will be staying in the units previous occupied by the renters.

Total availability did not change, but there will definitely be more Club Wyndham members staying in Club Wyndham units. "Member availability" increased and "Guest availability" decreased. Members seem to be more interested in "Member availability" than "Total availability."

 

[troy12n]

If you are selling something for less than you paid for it its not income. Example, a garage sale where your wife sells a $150 Coach purse for $1. Yep, experienced that one as well.

Again, the lengths people will go to, to support their flawed position, or their untenable actions...

I've seen a lot of really, really stupid suggestions in some of these threads, but this one has to be the worst

 

[ronparise]

I’m not trying to change any minds either, (maybe just open some)

there are systemic problems with points based timeshare systems that go deeper than just commercial use. The mega renters no doubt caused some problems, but not all of them.

There are only so many condos in Orlando. not every owners kid is going to get to see Mickey

there will still be couples like my wife and I that need a two bedroom unit (one of us snores) that ice the families with kids out of the larger units

But mainly there will still be owners, that feel entitled to what they want when they want it,,, and that’s a problem that getting rid of the mega renters won’t solve

 

[Mongoose]

.

 

[Mongoose]

Again, the lengths people will go to, to support their flawed position, or their untenable actions...

I've seen a lot of really, really stupid suggestions in some of these threads, but this one has to be the worst

Sounds like you need a vacation. Have you tried a timeshare

There's a completely legal way around these limitations, though. As long as you rent your timeshare out for 15 or fewer days per year, the IRS turns a blind eye to it. You won't be able to write off any rental expenses, but you won't have to report the rental income that you get either. While it's not a tax break if you lose money on the rental, it is if you can rent it out profitably. Either way, the whole transaction is tax-free, as described in the IRS' own Publication 527 on Residential Rental Property rules.

Tax Breaks on Timeshares (zacks.com)

 

[VacayKat]

If you are selling something for less than you paid for it its not income. Example, a garage sale where your wife sells a $150 Coach purse for $1. Yep, experienced that one as well.

Casual sellers engage in infrequent sales
When the sales price is less than what was originally paid for an item, no capital gain is realized. If you purchased a new lawn mower for $250 and later sold it for $50, that is not a $50 capital gain. Instead it is a $200 personal loss, which isn’t tax deductible.

yep... but if you got that lawnmower from a neighbor moving and sold it for $50 at a garage sale, it's taxable. IRS laws are special. (also, I may have resembled your wife at garage sales, lol)