[ Thread is unlocked ] Megarenter Rap Lawsuit

[Rolltydr]

You are entitled to your own opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts. EVERY owner has the exact same timeshare usage rights at 12AM Eastern, 13/10 months out. NO one is preventing an owner from using their timeshare.

EVERY owner doesn’t have the flexibility to schedule 13-10 months out. In fact, I would think a small percentage of them can. I am retired and have that flexibility but I believe the majority of Wyndham owners are working stiffs who would find it very difficult to book a week of vacation that far in advance. I believe you’re dead wrong on this one. Otherwise, owners wouldn’t be complaining that they can’t get reservations when they need them.

 

[davidvel]

I second this opinion. Criticizing one person for taking a free ride while taking a free ride is just not right.

But they are not taking a "free ride." They don't get the extra benefits afforded to paying members, just the benefits that are being provided by Brian for free. His posts commenting on guest status are in fact creepy.

 

[Cyrus24]

EVERY owner doesn’t have the flexibility to schedule 13-10 months out. In fact, I would think a small percentage of them can. I am retired and have that flexibility but I believe the majority of Wyndham owners are working stiffs who would find it very difficult to book a week of vacation that far in advance. I believe you’re dead wrong on this one. Otherwise, owners wouldn’t be complaining that they can’t get reservations when they need them.

My point was that EVERY owner CAN book at 13/10 months. At 12AM 13/10 months out, we are ALL equal.

 

[ronparise]

If my math is correct, and someone please check it, using $6/1000: 67,000,000 points at $6/1000 points comes to $402,000 a year in maintenance fees. Is this correct? Can this be possible?

The math isnt difficult,, you you multiplied correctly.
6 X 67,000 does indeed equal 402000 just like 2x2 =4

Why do you think, 3rd grade arithmetic might not be real?

 

[davidvel]

Meanwhile the Mega Renters ARE preventing regular owners from using their timeshare. This is an undebatable fact. But yes, please continue your fantasy comparison. It's a great look for you.

Sounds like it's debatable:

You are entitled to your own opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts. EVERY owner has the exact same timeshare usage rights at 12AM Eastern, 13/10 months out. NO one is preventing an owner from using their timeshare.

EVERY owner doesn’t have the flexibility to schedule 13-10 months out. In fact, I would think a small percentage of them can. I am retired and have that flexibility but I believe the majority of Wyndham owners are working stiffs who would find it very difficult to book a week of vacation that far in advance. I believe you’re dead wrong on this one. Otherwise, owners wouldn’t be complaining that they can’t get reservations when they need them.

Whatever people's personal flexibility is doesn't matter. The rules give everyone the equal right to reserve based on status or whatever.

If someone owns a gazillion points and uses them all, are they "preventing regular owners from using their timeshare?"
If so, how, and is that OK by your standards?

If someone owns a gazillion points and gives them away to family and friends, are they "preventing regular owners from using their timeshare?"
If so, how, and is that OK by your standards?

Is it only when they rent weeks out that they are miraculously "preventing regular owners from using their timeshare?" I understood the logic of this argument. Renters don't change the available inventory.

 

[davidvel]

The math isnt difficult,, your you multiplied correctly 6 X 67,000 does indeed equal 402000 just like 2x2 =4

What do you think, 3rd grade arithmetic might not be real?

Classy Ron.

 

[Eric B]

EVERY owner doesn’t have the flexibility to schedule 13-10 months out. In fact, I would think a small percentage of them can. I am retired and have that flexibility but I believe the majority of Wyndham owners are working stiffs who would find it very difficult to book a week of vacation that far in advance. I believe you’re dead wrong on this one. Otherwise, owners wouldn’t be complaining that they can’t get reservations when they need them.

That's the problem with the timeshare model for some folks. It's hard to conceive of a system that would have sufficient capacity that short-term availability would exist in high demand resorts/weeks without there having to be so much vacancy that the cost would be prohibitive. We'll see how things work out for availability in those now that the megarenters have been dealt with (to the extent that Wyndham can deal with them), but I don't think the end result will be the improved availability for the non-planners that some do. My thought is that there may be better chances of getting decent discounts/upgrades as a VIP because there will be a fair number of points in the system that are no longer VIP-eligible and that will reduce the competition in the marketplace for the discounts and upgrades. I don't see any other likely outcomes for the customer side of things.

I do believe it's a more rational way for Wyndham to control their costs, though. But, all things being equal I don't see any point in name calling or insulting the supposed megarenters/freeloaders - that's a bit close to the line for me. I do see indications of pretty poor management of the whole situation by Wyndham, though; maybe this is a step in the right direction for them, but we'll have to see there, too.

 

[VacayKat]

Ok, so help me out here. This person was sold the points and paid the MF yearly. They were not in arrears. How does Wyndham have to protect other owners from these folk who were ‘profiting at their expense’? And exactly how does someone renting out their legitimately gotten points hurt me, another owner who also has legitimate points. I honestly just do not grasp how someone renting their points harms me. If points are only sold that track to actual availability to rent, then it does not matter whether the owner or a guest uses the reservation, it’s legitimate.
Please do not start a thread attacking me - help me actually understand in factual terms and examples how a renter hurts other owners. (As in, don’t say it is a fact unless you cite the evidence)

 

[Eric B]

Ok, so help me out here. This person was sold the points and paid the MF yearly. They were not in arrears. How does Wyndham have to protect other owners from these folk who were ‘profiting at their expense’? And exactly how does someone renting out their legitimately gotten points hurt me, another owner who also has legitimate points. I honestly just do not grasp how someone renting their points harms me. If points are only sold that track to actual availability to rent, then it does not matter whether the owner or a guest uses the reservation, it’s legitimate.
Please do not start a thread attacking me - help me actually understand in factual terms and examples how a renter hurts other owners. (As in, don’t say it is a fact unless you cite the evidence)

I'm pretty much aligned with that line of thinking. There were things that went on in the past (pre-2016) where people got more points to use than they should have like getting the full value of a reservation returned to their accounts when canceling a discounted one; others have posted about somehow getting nearly unlimited points from Wyndham with no good basis by some other means. But if they own the points and the MFs are paid, I don't see the issue in general.

 

[paxsarah]

EVERY owner doesn’t have the flexibility to schedule 13-10 months out.

Wyndham’s cancellation policy is quite generous. There is absolutely no reason an owner couldn’t take their best stab at vacation plans at 10 months, and cancel with full points returned anytime in the ensuing 9.5 months. It took me three tries to get my spring break booked for this year. I may have even had to buy a $19 reservation transaction in the process. It was completely worth it.

 

[Sloane S]

I do believe it's a more rational way for Wyndham to control their costs, though.

Especially if Wyndham was covering the cost of the points difference for the discounts and upgrades on the non-VIP eligible resale points.

 

[ronparise]

[QUO
member: 107981"]
Assuming an average points per reservation of 150k per transaction - that would equate to 467 rental reservations that were denied to actual Wyndham owners.


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[/QUOTE]


My understanding is that the Klebbas are actual Wyndham owners No???

Your incessant rambling about my "guest" status isn't going to change that. If the website owners wanted this site to be exclusively pay to join, that's their prerogative. It's not something you, as a paying member, have any say in...

It does in a kind of creepy way seem like you are stalking and harassing me though...

You are using Tug, , without paying for it.. (because you are allowed to) and you resent Eric for saying so....

Why is that you cant accept that Klebbas are using Wyndham points that they "didnt pay for" (or paid very little for on the secondary market)

 

[ronparise]

Troy, to be perfectly honest, I do not care if you pay to join or continue to enjoy the "free ride" of being a guest. I have noticed a tendency in some posts to comment on others getting a "free ride" elsewhere and I find those to be in a bit of tension with each other. Since my posts seem to bother you, I'll add you to my ignore list.

beat me to it

 

[ronparise]

Especially if Wyndham was covering the cost of the points difference for the discounts and upgrades on the non-VIP eligible resale points.

there are next to no costs that Wyndham has to cover,, guest certs, and transaction fees is all... The resorts get all their maintenance fees

 

[ronparise]

When wyndham resells the mega renters 700 million points, you will have 2000+ regular owners booking those points so no additional inventory will open up.

I guess you could purchase and pay Mf on those 700 million points and not book anything in order to allow more regular members to use their timeshares.

exactly right... its the same number of points chasing the same number of reservations

 

[ronparise]

You are entitled to your own opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts. EVERY owner has the exact same timeshare usage rights at 12AM Eastern, 13/10 months out. NO one is preventing an owner from using their timeshare.

, and toyour point when Troy makes a reservation he is denying other owners the use of that unit at that time.

 

[Cyrus24]

, and toyour point when Troy makes a reservation he is denying other owners the use of that unit at that time.

I don't think he would see it that way. LOL.

 

[55plus]

The math isnt difficult,, you you multiplied correctly.
6 X 67,000 does indeed equal 402000 just like 2x2 =4

Why do you think, 3rd grade arithmetic might not be real?

I find it amazing the someone would have over $400K in annual maintenance fees. That's something I can't phantom. I'm glad to see them go. They, along with other of that caliber were ruining it for owners who actually use their points for personal travel.

 

[55plus]

exactly right... its the same number of points chasing the same number of reservations

But what is the likelihood those reservations will be made at the 13 month point? It's not likely, therefore allowing others to use those timeframes. What's happening is a good thing overall.

 

[Sloane S]

there are next to no costs that Wyndham has to cover,, guest certs, and transaction fees is all... The resorts get all their maintenance fees

I thought it had been stated in the past that Wyndham pays/covers the maintenance fees on those points though? For instance, the VIP owner makes the reservation at a 50% discount of points, the other 50% are covered by Wyndham developer owned points?

 

[bnoble]

Scott, that's my understanding too. So, there are no direct costs to Wyndham, but there are indirect costs in that they lose the use of those points for other purposes.

 

[Sloane S]

Scott, that's my understanding too. So, there are no direct costs to Wyndham, but there are indirect costs in that they lose the use of those points for other purposes.

Thanks for making that sound clearer than I could express. The same would be true of the VIP upgrades I believe. If Wyndham had no more developer-owned points, I would be willing to bet those “benefits” would be eliminated.

I’m guessing those developer-owned points are also used to cover the cost of the party weekends, encore packages, and such.

 

[HitchHiker71]

When wyndham resells the mega renters 700 million points, you will have 2000+ regular owners booking those points so no additional inventory will open up.

I guess you could purchase and pay Mf on those 700 million points and not book anything in order to allow more regular members to use their timeshares.

The key difference in your scenario that everyone seems to conveniently overlook is that it would be 2000 real Wyndham owners using those 700 million points - as opposed to 700 million points consumed solely by 2000 renters. This is an undeniable factual statement - and there is not a single person that can refute it.


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[Eric B]

The key difference in your scenario that everyone seems to conveniently overlook is that it would be 2000 real Wyndham owners using those 700 million points - as opposed to 700 million points consumed solely by renters. This is an undeniable factual statement - and there is not a single person that can refute it.


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I would say that it would be Wyndham owners using their rights to the time at the resort in both cases, though the rented ones are for a different use than the ones with an owner staying on a reservation made with their own points. Wyndham has always had the right to set out restrictions in this regard and has done a poor job at it based on all available evidence. I believe the latest effort only addresses the margins still.

 

[Cyrus24]

The key difference in your scenario that everyone seems to conveniently overlook is that it would be 2000 real Wyndham owners using those 700 million points - as opposed to 700 million points consumed solely by renters. This is an undeniable factual statement - and there is not a single person that can refute it.


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This is where the problem lies, semantics. An owner, regardless of status 'consumes' their points, points they paid for, when they make a reservation. A renter is paying to use the points that an owner consumes.

One of the issues that many owners have a problem with is that a renter is occupying a unit. And, someone is, supposedly, being harmed by that. Then translating that to mean that the owner doing the renting did something 'wrong'. While I see the point, we need to quit vilifying owners who used points as they saw fit. Loophole, or not, Wyndham has allowed renting. The new rules will certainly reel in the financial gain from renting, but, renting will still exist, as long as GC's are allowed. I've not heard much interest in eliminating GC's. Is that the next target?