This is why we don't do helicopter tours

[DeniseM]

Did you read the article - the helicopter pilot was a new pilot who was not legally qualified to fly the helicopter.

 

[FunnyFarm]

I really enjoyed the one helicopter ride I did when I lived on Kauai in the 80's.
They are so expensive now I can't do it plus I go back in November when weather is iffy.
There is a crash almost every year in the islands.

I will say that the best experience I had in the air was with Birds in Paradise (Kauai/ airport at Salt Pond) getting lessons on flying an ultralight.
Could go much higher (Copters can't afford the fuel to fly higher) and more places and I was in control. Great fun. Made me want to buy one.
Sadly, the owner/trainer crashed and died while on a flight years later.

Now there is the issue of copters potentially flying lower, creating more noise. ..........Still up in the air so to speak.

 

[JIMinNC]

Did you read the article - the helicopter pilot was a new pilot who was not legally qualified to fly the helicopter.

Yes I did. Seems to be some issues with FAA oversight, which is not unusual. Similar oversight failings were also contributory to the issues with the Boeing 737 Max 8 and the 787 Dreamliner.

The point of my posts was not to litigate the probable cause of a specific accident (some kind of failing is the cause of all accidents, no matter how rare). Traffic accidents like the one that claimed the lives of the young family in Georgia are also usually the result of someone's failure, somewhere. My intent was just to point out that overall, even with the occasional human or mechanical error, based on the factual statistics, the risk of helicopter sightseeing is incredibly low, notwithstanding the degree to which the non-aviation media tends to hype aviation accidents.

 

[pedro47]

Thanks DeniseM, for your article and current information.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I won't ever fly a helicopter again. It was a traumatic experience. The pilot was a fool, letting the copter drop many stories to show the capability of the aircraft, just made the blades do something, and we dropped like we were on a wild roller coaster with no track underneath us. The four of us in the back were terrified. Never again.

Rick has been on the Flight for Life for his EMT training, and he has been on three Hawaiian island tours. He loves it.

 

[Passepartout]

I can pass on chopper rides. The machines are as safe as they can be built, but pilots are awfully busy flying them- even without them also being tour guides- and unexpected difficulties compound the danger.

Jim

 

[davidvel]

I won't ever fly a helicopter again. It was a traumatic experience. The pilot was a fool, letting the copter drop many stories to show the capability of the aircraft, just made the blades do something, and we dropped like we were on a wild roller coaster with no track underneath us. The four of us in the back were terrified. Never again.

Rick has been on the Flight for Life for his EMT training, and he has been on three Hawaiian island tours. He loves it.

Since you were flying, it seems you only have yourself to blame.

 

[easyrider]

I realize that some people just have a higher risk tolerance than I do and that's great. Just not my cup of tea.

I get it. I know many people that wouldn't get on a helicopter anywhere. It's definitely not my favorite activity but I kind of like being on a ride with one of my family that hasn't ever been on the ride just for the memories.

Bill

 

[ScoopKona]

Yes, airline aviation is statistically safer than smaller planes and helicopters. But the point of my previous post was that all of modern aviation is incredibly safe. The relatively greater safety of airliners over helicopters is measured in the 1/1000ths of a percentage point.

Don’t let sensationalist news paint a picture that doesn’t match reality.

In this most current example, the pilot wasn't certified. I am certain that there are also physicians practicing medicine who also aren't certified.


Why would I accept that kind of risk, when I can simply walk to an area which provides almost as good a view without the flying in a helicopter with a pilot who shouldn't be at the stick, too low for auto-rotation in the event of an emergency, and in rough terrain with no easy extrication in the event of a crash?

Sure -- air travel is safer. Until it isn't. And the scenario I just laid out is the reason we have so many helicopter fatalities.

 

[TolmiePeak]

In this most current example, the pilot wasn't certified. I am certain that there are also physicians practicing medicine who also aren't certified.


Why would I accept that kind of risk, when I can simply walk to an area which provides almost as good a view without the flying in a helicopter with a pilot who shouldn't be at the stick, too low for auto-rotation in the event of an emergency, and in rough terrain with no easy extrication in the event of a crash?

Sure -- air travel is safer. Until it isn't. And the scenario I just laid out is the reason we have so many helicopter fatalities.

I just wish we could push for a far higher level of standards for driving cars. We could cut the death toll by 90%. We would never accept hundreds of people dying in airplane crashes everyday. We shouldn't accept that level of carnage from driving cars.

 

[davidvel]

In this most current example, the pilot wasn't certified. I am certain that there are also physicians practicing medicine who also aren't certified.


Why would I accept that kind of risk, when I can simply walk to an area which provides almost as good a view without the flying in a helicopter with a pilot who shouldn't be at the stick, too low for auto-rotation in the event of an emergency, and in rough terrain with no easy extrication in the event of a crash?

Sure -- air travel is safer. Until it isn't. And the scenario I just laid out is the reason we have so many helicopter fatalities.

What kind of risk? You don't define "that kind of risk." Do you ride in cars which are significantly higher risk (when you could "simply walk")?

But to answer your question, because not everyone (I would guess even you), can "simply walk to an area which provides almost as good a view without the flying in a helicopter ."

 

[dioxide45]

I just wish we could push for a far higher level of standards for driving cars. We could cut the death toll by 90%. We would never accept hundreds of people dying in airplane crashes everyday. We shouldn't accept that level of carnage from driving cars.

I thought self driving cars are supposed to solve for that?

 

[JIMinNC]

In this most current example, the pilot wasn't certified. I am certain that there are also physicians practicing medicine who also aren't certified.


Why would I accept that kind of risk, when I can simply walk to an area which provides almost as good a view without the flying in a helicopter with a pilot who shouldn't be at the stick, too low for auto-rotation in the event of an emergency, and in rough terrain with no easy extrication in the event of a crash?

Sure -- air travel is safer. Until it isn't. And the scenario I just laid out is the reason we have so many helicopter fatalities.

The overall statistics still say the risk of a fatal crash in a Hawaii helicopter tour is somewhere around 0.002%. If you aren’t willing to accept even that low risk, there are probably a lot of other activities you may also want to seriously reconsider participating in.

 

[JIMinNC]

Why would I accept that kind of risk, when I can simply walk to an area which provides almost as good a view without the flying in a helicopter…

Because walking can carry considerable risks as well.

https://www.backpacker.com/stories/kalalau-trail-hawaii-hike/

 

[davidvel]

The overall statistics still say the risk of a fatal crash in a Hawaii helicopter tour is somewhere around 0.002%. If you aren’t willing to accept even that low risk, there are probably a lot of other activities you may also want to seriously reconsider participating in.

Yeah, like hiking up a narrow trail to get a "similar view."

 

[ScoopKona]

The overall statistics still say the risk of a fatal crash in a Hawaii helicopter tour is somewhere around 0.002%. If you aren’t willing to accept even that low risk, there are probably a lot of other activities you may also want to seriously reconsider participating in.

It's all about risk vs. reward.

Would you go for open heart surgery with an unlicensed doctor or fly with a pilot who isn't certified? I can drive to VNP, hike to the prime viewing area, and get a great picture.

Is there risk driving? Sure. But I'm in a massive safety cage. I'm not speeding. I don't need to think about auto-rotation. And I've gone decades without an accident or citation. I like my chances.

 

[JIMinNC]

It's all about risk vs. reward.

Would you go for open heart surgery with an unlicensed doctor or fly with a pilot who isn't certified? I can drive to VNP, hike to the prime viewing area, and get a great picture.

Is there risk driving? Sure. But I'm in a massive safety cage. I'm not speeding. I don't need to think about auto-rotation. And I've gone decades without an accident or citation. I like my chances.

I’ve been flying airplanes since I was 15. Soloed at 16. Flown in many helicopters, balloons, vintage warbirds, aerobatic planes, and ex-military jets. I’ve pulled 9-Gs and flown almost 2000 hours as pilot in command. The rewards have been immense. The risks, very small.

That one accident the article fixated on had a pilot who did not receive what the NTSB considered an appropriate flight evaluation. That was an exception. The vast majority of Hawaii helicopter pilots are imminently qualified. Many are ex-military. That is the reason 99.998% of all flights are safe.

 

[pedro47]

I just wish we could push for a far higher level of standards for driving cars. We could cut the death toll by 90%. We would never accept hundreds of people dying in airplane crashes everyday. We shouldn't accept that level of carnage from driving cars.

The question should be how many driving accidents are involved with tractors trailers trucks ? You maybe surprise.

 

[TolmiePeak]

I thought self driving cars are supposed to solve for that?

They have the self driving taxis now in San Francisco. I just wonder how much safer they need to be compared to human drivers before the public will widely accept them?

 

[JohnnyO]

I will say that the best experience I had in the air was with Birds in Paradise (Kauai/ airport at Salt Pond) getting lessons on flying an ultralight.
Could go much higher (Copters can't afford the fuel to fly higher) and more places and I was in control. Great fun. Made me want to buy one.
Sadly, the owner/trainer crashed and died while on a flight years later.

I flew with that guy. He was really nice and a pretty smart guy. It was a great adventure. He was featured on one of those Real Estate reality TV series Buying on Kauai or something like that. I came to find out he was allegedly jerryrigging the fuel system to try and save fuel on his flights and that caused the crash he and a student died in. The fire allegedly destroyed his craft and the fail safes on board like the parachute system. Some don't believe he would do that but I do because he talked to me about what he was experimenting on with the same fuel system. I'm glad he didn't propose trying it during our flight. I think the final (FAA/NTSB/Sheriff?) report discusses all of this. So sad for his student, him and his wife. His actions also wound up restricting these craft even more throughout Hawaii. Our daughter flew on one on the way to Hana Maui with another well known operator.

 

[JohnnyO]

They have the self driving taxis now in San Francisco. I just wonder how much safer they need to be compared to human drivers before the public will widely accept them?

Waymo self driving taxi's in Phoenix and Las Vegas too that I have seen. I haven't been in one. They are in many cities now and Waymo (Google) and Tesla's are coming in big way and will soon be expanded in plenty of other cities. The "Jetsons" are finally catching up.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Since you were flying, it seems you only have yourself to blame.

Grammar matters. I was in the helicopter.

 

[TolmiePeak]

Grammar matters. I was in the helicopter.

Exactly. Doesn't he know you are too busy managing your timeshare empire and don't have the time to learn how to fly a helicopter?

 

[jimf41]

Can someone point me to the article that says the pilot, Sean Johnson, wasn't certified? The NTSB has not released any information on him except to say he had 788 logged flight hours and was a licensed commercial pilot with an instrument rating. On another point statistics about aircraft safety can be very misleading for those of you who are not in the flying profession. They could be based on miles flown, hours flown, mishap fatalities, takeoffs and landings or a myriad of other criteria. If you use miles flown no helicopter would rate very high. If you use hours flown the Bell 206 is probably the safest aircraft ever produced. Definitely the safest helicopter.

Some of the posters have said they didn't enjoy their helo tour because of the aerobatic antics of the pilot. For that I sincerely apologize on behalf of all the professionals in the industry. A pilot should always tailor the flight profile to the mission. Airline pilots do not simulate staffing runs while landing, that's not what the folks in the back are paying for. As an EMS pilot the Paramedic wanted a nice stable flight so they could tend to the patient. On the other hand as a military pilot sometimes the pax, military jargon for passengers, wanted a more interesting experience. I've never worked in the tour industry but I don't think it's much different from EMS or VIP transport missions.

 

[DeniseM]

Now, the FAA admits the pilot should never have been flying. His certification, completed just days earlier, was signed off by the company’s owner — someone not even authorized to do so.