The Sierra snowpack is larger than it has been in [ 72 ] years

[CO skier]

On the Truckee River, surplus flows maintain Pyramid Lake.

Is it true or "untrue" that Pyramid Lake is located in the Nevada desert and the dead end of the Truckee River?

 

[douglasmhines]

Posted like someone who lives in Washington D.C., or at least somewhere east of the Mississippi River.

posted like someone that lives in the imperial valley and understands the problem because his friends manage farms and have to deal with the IID on a regular basis.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Is it true or "untrue" that Pyramid Lake is located in the Nevada desert and the dead end of the Truckee River?

That is correct.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Who shoulders Mother Nature's cut of the Colorado River?

Persistent drought could finally force resolution of the debate over how to account for evaporative losses in the West's major waterway.

www.eenews.net

 

[DeniseM]

This was actually tweeted by the Truckee Highway Patrol yesterday! They are in charge of one of the high Sierra passes.

You should NOT try to drive to Tahoe right now. If you have a timeshare reservation and you feel you must go, fly to Reno, and rent a 4WD, then drive to Tahoe from the East side. This will get you over the Sierras without driving. Also be aware that the ski resorts are having a hard time staying open because they have TOO MUCH SNOW and the roads that lead to them close after every snowfall.

(This is a Star Wars Tauntaun.)

 

[DeniseM]

Here is a compilation of videos from Tahoe and the greater area from the last few days. I think the 2nd one may be the Marriott in Tahoe.

 

[DeniseM]

Jeff - yesterday, a warehouse in Tahoe collapsed flat to the ground due to snow on the roof. (I know you can relate to warehouses.) They also had an avalanche that buried an Apt. building up to the 3rd floor.

 

[DeniseM]

We have a home in Reno, but we knew this was coming, so we came back to Modesto, last week, before these big storms came in. We don't mind being snowed in, but if you have a medical emergency or lose power, it can be a bad situation to be snowed in.

 

[slip]

Jeff - yesterday, a warehouse in Tahoe collapsed flat to the ground due to snow on the roof. (I know you can relate to warehouses.) They also had an avalanche that buried an Apt. building up to the 3rd floor.

Jeff - yesterday, a warehouse in Tahoe collapsed flat to the ground due to snow on the roof. (I know you can relate to warehouses.) They also had an avalanche that buried an Apt. building up to the 3rd floor.

Yes, I can definitely relate. Our warehouse in Wisconsin had a roof collapse when I was there about 15 years ago. Luckily it was between shifts and no one was hurt. Buy it took us months to get everything rebuilt.

But we didn't have nearly as much snow as you are showing here. Glad you were able to get away and watch ot from afar.

 

[GetawaysRus]

Yes, I can definitely relate. Our warehouse in Wisconsin had a roof collapse when I was there about 15 years ago. Luckily it was between shits and no one was hurt. Buy it took us months to get everything rebuilt.

But we didn't have nearly as much snow as you are showing here. Glad you were able to get away and watch ot from afar.

Got a laugh out of your typo.

So the roof collapse was right over the potty, eh?

 

[Mongoose]

[DELETED: Politics are not welcome on TUG.]

 

[DaveNV]

Got a laugh out of your typo.

So the roof collapse was right over the potty, eh?

It's what happens when the warehouse roof collapses...

Dave

 

[Mongoose]

Not sure how that was political. Let’s hope this signals the beginning of end of the drought.

 

[slip]

Got a laugh out of your typo.

So the roof collapse was right over the potty, eh?

That may have helped too.

I made the correction.

 

[douglasmhines]

Jeff - yesterday, a warehouse in Tahoe collapsed flat to the ground due to snow on the roof. (I know you can relate to warehouses.) They also had an avalanche that buried an Apt. building up to the 3rd floor.

in conditions like this, are they able to keep pioneer trail open? I would think that place is a mess to get in and out of for local residents. It is a great short cut in the summer, but I avoid it in the winter because one time I hit black ice there on a day I wasn't expecting those conditions.

 

[davidvel]

in conditions like this, are they able to keep pioneer trail open? I would think that place is a mess to get in and out of for local residents. It is a great short cut in the summer, but I avoid it in the winter because one time I hit black ice there on a day I wasn't expecting those conditions.

Drove up Friday night arriving at Timber Lodge around 1030pm, hwy 50 was wide open. Pioneer was open with some snowy areas. Since then it has snowed about a foot at lake level and more than twice that up on the mountain. Had a fun afternoon going from Boulder Lodge to Stagecoach in our Subaru, with all the 4wd drive trucks and SUVs spun out in 4-6" of snow on the ground. Sadly people cannot drive and think having 4wd will help you stop, or otherwise get you up hills if you don't know what you are doing.

Heavenly shut down shuttles and closed early beacause there were too many accident on ski run. Expecting another foot or so tonight, 5-6" at lake level.

 

[davidvel]

Update: Heavenly closed today

 

[DeniseM]

Folks - TUG is not the place to start a Global Warming debate. This thread is about snow in the Sierras and travel - period.

 

[DeniseM]

@davidvel - IMNSHO, other drivers are actually more dangerous than the weather conditions in the Sierras.

 

[douglasmhines]

Drove up Friday night arriving at Timber Lodge around 1030pm, hwy 50 was wide open. Pioneer was open with some snowy areas. Since then it has snowed about a foot at lake level and more than twice that up on the mountain. Had a fun afternoon going from Boulder Lodge to Stagecoach in our Subaru, with all the 4wd drive trucks and SUVs spun out in 4-6" of snow on the ground. Sadly people cannot drive and think having 4wd will help you stop, or otherwise get you up hills if you don't know what you are doing.

Heavenly shut down shuttles and closed early beacause there were too many accident on ski run. Expecting another foot or so tonight, 5-6" at lake level.

I have a 4x4 150 and what a lot of people don't realize is how easy it is to spin out in a vehicle that is so front end heavy (especially in 2 wheel rear drive mode). If I am going to be in a snowy area for an extended amount of time I will put 4-5 bags of sand in the back of my truck to try and give a little more balance. I will never trade in my truck for a different 4x4, but I will say that a sedan with good 4x4 action (like a subaru) is the way to go if you are living in those conditions and don't have the need to move things around.

It is nuts to see how many people drive too fast. As you said, 4x4 doesn't help you stop, the only thing that helps you stop is driving slow. Patience is key, but we are talking about people that rarely drive in adverse weather conditions, so it is what it is.

Something I never understood . . . I lived in the midwest for three years, and no one uses chains (I think they are illegal?), yet we use them in California. Why is that?

 

[bnoble]

Maybe because there aren’t many serious inclines in the Midwest?

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

I have a 4x4 150 and what a lot of people don't realize is how easy it is to spin out in a vehicle that is so front end heavy (especially in 2 wheel rear drive mode). If I am going to be in a snowy area for an extended amount of time I will put 4-5 bags of sand in the back of my truck to try and give a little more balance. I will never trade in my truck for a different 4x4, but I will say that a sedan with good 4x4 action (like a subaru) is the way to go if you are living in those conditions and don't have the need to move things around.

I grew up and learned to drive in Minnesota in the 1960s. That was a time when almost all cars were rear-wheel drive (except for VW Beetles). As winter arrived, it was pretty standard to add at least 500 lbs of weight to the rear of the vehicle (trunk for a passenger vehicle, the back end of station wagon, or the bed of a truck). That was done by stowing cinder blocks or bags of sand or gravel in the rear of the vehicle.

It is nuts to see how many people drive too fast. As you said, 4x4 doesn't help you stop, the only thing that helps you stop is driving slow. Patience is key, but we are talking about people that rarely drive in adverse weather conditions, so it is what it is.

4x4 only helps with traction. Once you step on the brakes, there isn't any difference between 4WD and 2WD. When we lived in the San Bernardino Mountains and we had an original design Toyota Land Cruiser (patterned after a Jeep), I routinely chained up the front tires when it was snowy, and frequently the rear as well. I was always most concerned with maintaining control of the car during braking and turning.

The first significant accident I had with a vehicle was with the Land Cruiser, on the west side of Lake Arrowhead. We were driving properly on a snow-covered and plowed road, and as we entered a stretch where the road curved as it climbed a small hill, a "Flatlander" (that's the term that locals used to describe Angelenos who came to the mountains for the weekend) came the other way in a FWD vehicle with chains on the front. I guess he figured that with chains on that was like driving on bare pavement. He crested the hill and came into the descending turn too fast, lost control of the rear wheels, and began spinning around the front wheels. He did a sideways glance off the car ahead of us, then smacked us almost dead on on the left front bumper. As we exchanged info he kept whining about how he didn't understand how this could have happened since he had chains on.

Something I never understood . . . I lived in the midwest for three years, and no one uses chains (I think they are illegal?), yet we use them in California. Why is that?

As I mentioned, I grew up in Minnesota, but I've lived in the western US since 1974. Driving in the snow in the Midwest and the West is totally different. And driving in the snow is far more treacherous in the West than in the Midwest, IMO. The major differences I see are:

1. Snow in the West is much wetter and slushier. In Midwestern winters, when it snows the ground is frozen and the snow is usually powdery. So it doesn't stick. It drifts, and the biggest hazard often isn't snow on the road; it's drifting snow that obscures the road so you can't tell where the lane markers and the edges of the pavement are. In contrast, in the West snow is generally wetter, and it falls on ground that isn't frozen. That melts the snow and creates a slush layer on the roadway. That creates much trickier driving, particularly increasing the hydroplaning hazards, because tires don't shed slush as easily as they do water. If weather continues to be cold, then snow starts accumulating on top of the slush and the slush layer starts to turn to ice. So now you have snow on top of ice, which is much more treacherous.
2. In much of the West, the roads are hillier and steeper. And because snow is much rarer, roads aren't designed with the same consideration for snow and ice as is done in the Midwest.
3. Drivers in the West are far less accustomed to driving in the snow. So the hazard isn't the snow, it's the other people driving cars.

I got a reminder of this about four years ago, when I drove I-94 from Fargo to Minneapolis during a February snowstorm. It was a storm that would have been crippling if it fell on any lowland areas in the western US. In western MN it was a very manageable hazard, not requiring chains or anything similar.

 

[douglasmhines]

All great points from both posts, especially about how the snow is different. Truthfully, I never thought about how different the snow is, but you are correct. I think the usage of salt in the midwest helps with the lack of re-freezing and making an ice layer, but it comes at a cost. I am sure putting down salt on the roads would be awful for the plant life that is near the roads. I will admit, the very first time I drove in a bad snowstorm in the midwest, I also drove too fast . . . but frankly I didn't know any better. The very first time I hit my breaks I realized how dangerous it was, and never drove fast again (in snow / icy conditions).

Many people foolishly think a 4x4 means you can do anything in any conditions. I live part time in the desert, and I have to laugh at some of the people getting stuck in sand or dirt off-road conditions. Bottom line, if it isn't a paved road in good weather conditions, people need to slow down. Simply put, 4x4's only help if the driver has common sense.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

All great points from both posts, especially about how the snow is different. Truthfully, I never thought about how different the snow is, but you are correct. I think the usage of salt in the midwest helps with the lack of re-freezing and making an ice layer, but it comes at a cost. I am sure putting down salt on the roads would be awful for the plant life that is near the roads. I will admit, the very first time I drove in a bad snowstorm in the midwest, I also drove too fast . . . but frankly I didn't know any better. The very first time I hit my breaks I realized how dangerous it was, and never drove fast again (in snow / icy conditions).

Many people foolishly think a 4x4 means you can do anything in any conditions. I live part time in the desert, and I have to laugh at some of the people getting stuck in sand or dirt off-road conditions. Bottom line, if it isn't a paved road in good weather conditions, people need to slow down. Simply put, 4x4's only help if the driver has common sense.

I don't think I ever used chains for winter driving in Minnesota. I use them frequently in the west. In fact, when ever I buy an automobile, one of the first things I do is to make sure I have property sized chains or cables in the trunk or under a seat.

For me, the trickiest part of driving on snow on the west coast and coastal mountains is hydroplaning. Slush is much more viscous than water, which means it doesn't channel in tires as rainfall does does. So it's real easy to get a layer of water under the tires, and then away you go. I've had two hydroplaning incidents.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Storms keep hammering California and this could soon become a problem

Signs point to a continued active weather pattern in the next two weeks, but an increasing portion of this precipitation could fall as rain, leading to flooding risks.

www.seattletimes.com

Oh my stars - the sky is falling. CA is receiving abundant precipitation, but it's not coming in a pattern that is optimized for water supply.

Folks - in almost any beaucoup precipitation year in CA, there will be runoff that can't be captured. In February 2017, when there was a near catastrophic failure of Oroville Dam, the lament was that too much of the precipitation was falling as rain instead of snow, so that it was immediately registering as streamflow. Now, in February 2023, the lament is that too much of the precipitation has appeared as snow, and now nature might melt that snow too quickly.

Duh - we're moving to Spring, and storm system temperatures are going to increase. This is completely normal. What would be abnormal is if nature delayed the rise in temperatures so that snow melt would occur at a pace that met the convenience of homo sapiens.

Rapid melt of Sierra snowpack in high precip years is very common. If you look at historic records of flooding in the San Joaquin Valley floor (records generally available extending to mid-19th century), they are associated with rapid melting of Sierra snowpack.