The new college drug?

[wackymother]

A friend who lives in Miami told me about the "everything together in a bowl" party a few months ago. She said the Miami Spanish-language station was all over a story about a girl who went to a party like this, took something from the bowl, had to be rushed to the hospital, almost died, and was in a coma for three months. I don't know if it's true, but it's a pretty horrifying story.

 

[borntotravel]

Sue - I'm the same way with my daughter. She had her wisdom teeth out at 17 yrs. last year and she was prescribed pain killers. I gave them to her every four hours that first day and then starting the next morning I didn't offer anything except Motrin until bed time - then I gave her a pain pill. I figured if she complained abou the pain, I'd give it to her, buy why give it if she really didn't need it? Well over the two days following surgery, she only complained of pain once during the day (so I gave her one) and I gave her the pill at night and she never took another one.

The reason I was so stingy with them is because when I had my wisdom teeth out (20 yrs old), I had addicted myself to them. I was in such pain that I made sure I took them every four hours. In a few days, I was waking up at 2:00 or 3:00 am because my mind was telling me it was time for a pain pill. They had given me a weeks worth. At that age, I didn't realize that your body/mind could be "programmed" for the drug so quickly. I was following the prescribed amount, so I figured it was "safe". Didn't want that to happen to her.

I have instilled in my daughter the results of taking drugs, drinking & driving, unprotected sex, etc. since she was a tween. I always watch movies (esp. true stories) with her regarding these subjects and openly discuss them with her after. I have always had the belief that I should be honest and frank in discussing these subjects (age appropriate, of course), since she was little. If she asked a question, I'd give her an honest as appropriate answer. She has been a responsible person (she's had 7 friends die in alcohol related accidents over the past few years - a sad dose of reality) so far, has never been a follower and doesn't have a problem saying, "I'm not doing that". I just hope that it lasts through college, cause you never know. We can just hope and pray that they use the wisdom, common sense, and morals we have brought them up with. Because when it come right down to it, we as parents, really have no control of what they are going to do as young adults (sad, but true). And anyone who thinks otherwise, is living in la-la land!

 

[pjrose]

Pharm parties (as in pharmacy - mix up all the pills) happen in high school too. There have been lots of problems.

All of our prescriptions are locked up - not just in a locked medicine cabinet, but well hidden and locked. We also dole out meds one at a time. Am I mistrusting? Yes, because kids can be too impulsive and act without thinking.

 

[mepiccolo]

I spent a week once with someone who was prescribed Adderall (sp?) when I didn't think they needed it (it made them act hyper and wierd, really like an unattractive nutcase when on it, it also made their eye's look wierd, like someone on cocaine). It made them very skinny. I can see where the college kids would be attracted to it but there was a definite trade-off, be skinny and act like a nutcase. I'd rather be plump and not have people looking at me like I'm a freak when I'm talking to them. The problem is the doctors give out this prescription just if you request it "I can't concentrate on my schooling." Here you go, this will help. There is no way to actually test if someone really has ADHD (what I learned from surfing ADHD sites after my disturbing visit with that person).

I also know someone who's college daughter was given an "ecstacy" pill at a Rave (all night party in San Francisco). She was catatonic for three days and the doctors told the parents they didn't know if she would ever "come back". My poor friend was actually looking at having a conservatorship done for her daughter because she thought she was going to be a zombie forever. She did finally kick the effects of the pill she took - they still don't know what it was. Come to think of it I had a client who was "lost" forever this way. She is like the living dead. She is alive but is unable to speak, her mind is fried from the drugs she took. She is in her late twenties and living in a retirement home, bedridden. This is what kids need to know can happen. I know kids think it won't happen to them, but by the time kids get to college and have lost a friend or two to car accidents or other tragedies, they need to see a video or police department video of this happening because it does happen.

I hope my kids never grow up wanting to do drugs. But I must say of the list of all the drugs listed I would be the least concerned about pot, (1) not physically addictive, (2) no one has ever died from pot (3) symptoms are gone within hours and (4) I was a total stoner for years (now I'm allergic to it) and know the friends I hung out with who were JUST stoners were less likely to be trouble-makers than the kids who drank alcohol or did other worse drugs. For example, I went to Reggae on the River two years in a row in Northern California - pot was everywhere, for that weekend the cops in Humbolt turned their head to it. It was 3 days of camping by the river enjoying reggae music. Not one fight, not one overdose, the only thing that happened which everyone heard about is that someone who actually took acid, not pot, went around stealing small items from the various camps and then he sat in front of his tent on a blanket surrounded by all his stolen loot (he was on a wierd trip). Unfortunately, that was in the early 90's and then Reggae on the River got invaded by people who brought in ecstacy, meth and other drugs and the whole vibe changed. When it was just pot it was actually a very friendly and happy weekend. At least that's how I remember it. The one thing to keep in mind is this, if addiction runs in the family, it doesn't matter what it is, the kid is more likely to have a problem with it. Someone who has the alcoholic gene is not going to be content just doing pot for long, that person will move up to alcohol, then soon it's meth and they are in huge trouble. By the grace of God I did not have a problem with addiction so when I was done with pot, I was done, no withdrawals, no wishing for it, it was just something I used to do. People who have addiction problems aren't so lucky. Worse, a kid might be that 1 in 500 who takes a pill at a party and ends up in a hospital in a coma, that is the realistic risk that kids need to be aware of. I believe having open conversations with your kids about this helps. I speak openly with my nieces about my stoner past and I do have bad stories associated with smoking pot and that is what I tell them, because someone could have a bad reaction to pot. But I believe by being open about it, answering their questions about it, actually makes it less intriguing, because its something their middle-aged aunt did, it's just not as cool. I'm okay with them thinking that.

 

[Wonka]

Frankly, I'd be very concerned if my college age sons or daughters (mine are grown) were using prescription drugs (or others) without physician monitoring & supervision. Using a drug to enhance study skills is especially troubling if they work because they not only put the user at risk, they might also place other students at a disadvantage in a competitive grades environment. That's similar to athletes using steroids and other performance enhancing drugs, isn't it? Before anyone responds that I don't understand the realities of today's world, I do. But, the realities don't make things right.

 

[pjrose]

Frankly, I'd be very concerned if my college age sons or daughters (mine are grown) were using prescription drugs (or others) without physician monitoring & supervision. Using a drug to enhance study skills is especially troubling if they work because they not only put the user at risk, they might also place other students at a disadvantage in a competitive grades environment. That's similar to athletes using steroids and other performance enhancing drugs, isn't it? Before anyone responds that I don't understand the realities of today's world, I do. But, the realities don't make things right.

DH and I are both college professors. I don't know if there are any studies of this, but my bet is that staying up to cram - with or without drugs - does not enhance the students' performance. Those who are staying up all night are likely those who were not on top of the material in the first place, so they're likely to do worse on tests anyway. In our experience, students performance is usually pretty consistent throughout the semester - those who start out with good work, attend class, contribute, etc are those who get As and Bs; those who don't attend, don't keep up with the reading, don't pay attention get the Ds and Fs. They may believe that drugs will enhance their performance, but that doesn't seem to be substantiated in our experience.

 

[Cheryl17]

I don't know if there are any studies of this, but my bet is that staying up to cram - with or without drugs - does not enhance the students' performance.

I think there is research that shows that changes occur in the brain during sleep which allow memories to form.

 

[borntotravel]

There is no way to actually test if someone really has ADHD (what I learned from surfing ADHD sites after my disturbing visit with that person).

First of all, if your friend was "off the wall" after taking adderall, they are not ADHD. Actually, for a lot of people, if you do not have ADHD and take Adderall it makes you hyper, fidgety, nervous, etc.

Although there is no "test" to take to tell if you are ADHD, there is a way doctors can tell just about to a certainty. If you go to developmental psychologist this is what happens:

1. The parents needs to fill out a questionaire regarding child's behavior, habits, etc. from birth to date.

2. Current teacher needs to fill out a questionaire regarding child's behavior, grades, and answer detailed questions regarding the child's difficultie in school.

3. The psychologist then will give the child a battery of diffrerent tests to tests the child's ability to pay attention, memory, as well as aptitude. This is how they tell if the child has a learning disability and/or ADHD (and the type) or none of the above.

It actually is a very lengthy process, and costly. A responsible physician should always refer patients to a developmental psychologist for diagnosis. A medical doctor is not adequately qualified to determine this (actually, a parent and teacher would be - since they are the ones who spend every day with the child).

The reason there are so many people on these types of drugs that don't really need them, are because medical doctors just write the scripts without getting an acurate diagnosis.

 

[mepiccolo]

Unfortunately the person I was speaking about was an adult, who was "diagnosed" with ADHD as an adult (based on her own claims of not being able to concentrate). The kicker is she did do better at school after starting the drugs. But she went back and got higher and higher dosages, based on her own claims of needing it, and the doctor gave it to her.

Personally, I would try everything and then something else before I woud even consider ADHD meds for my kids. And even then I wouldn't do it, I'm just not a pill taker unless absolutely necessary and I want my kids to be the same way. A good long run before school to get the energy out, self-hypnosis to relax, good meals, avoid caffeine, etc. There is a definite over-diagnosis of ADHD. I'm not meaning to insult those who really do have it and really benefit from the drugs. I just personally would look for alternative, preferably homeopathic methods to treating it. Go on ADHD boards and you will see that they openly admit that the ADHD medication is a "high" that is being abused, from what I gathered from these boards it is like a legal form of
meth. Helps those who needs it, acts like cocaine to those who don't. Worse, I personally know of two kids who took this medication as teenagers and then now as young adults suffer with severe depression, in one case requiring being in a mental hospital. You can't be 100% sure it was being on ADHD medicine for a long time, but it's not a gamble I would make with my own kids. Honestly, it would require a court order for me to give my kids that type of medication, I'm that opposed to it.

 

[Htoo0]

For those of you with children and want to know, those 'bowl' parties are also often referred to as "M&M" parties. (All the different colored pills dumped in a bowl and consumed like candy.) Sounds harmless enough when the kids say they're going to an M&M party to those not in the know. (Kind of like a 'rainbow' party, but that's a whole different problem!)

 

[Luanne]

Personally, I would try everything and then something else before I woud even consider ADHD meds for my kids. And even then I wouldn't do it, I'm just not a pill taker unless absolutely necessary and I want my kids to be the same way.

I'm guessing you don't have a child with ADHD.....or possibly any other medical condition that requires medication.

 

[pjrose]

Personally, I would try everything and then something else before I woud even consider ADHD meds for my kids. And even then I wouldn't do it, I'm just not a pill taker unless absolutely necessary and I want my kids to be the same way. A good long run before school to get the energy out, self-hypnosis to relax, good meals, avoid caffeine, etc.

I'm guessing you don't have a child with ADHD.....or possibly any other medical condition that requires medication.

I'll bet Luanne's right. Many of us did try everything and something else and something else again. You'd have to be there to see how these drugs can be life saving. It's not that ADHD kills - but the impulsive behaviors that are reduced by the meds can. The meds give those with ADHD the chance not just to stop and think, but to think, to focus, without constant simultaneous input from what has been described as many TV channels all blaring at once.

After dealing with problems starting at age 3, and trying everything, we went with meds just before 4th grade. Our child went from three tantrums a night to one every three weeks; her teacher commented that "she sure matured over the summer." The brain can be wired differently or have a different chemical balance, and is helped by meds just like many other parts of the body are.

Is ADHD over diagnosed? you bet. Are too many pills popped as an easy solution? Yes. Unfortunately, that's what gets the attention, and then it puts a pall on the legitimate and necessary uses of ADHD meds.

 

[mepiccolo]

You are correct and I am extremely grateful for that. As I said before, I know some kids do have ADHD and do benefit from the medication, and I in no means meant to insult those with a real need for that medication. My problem with it is that I've personally seen really only bad results, not good. Honestly, I've never personally met a child "before" and "after" ADHD meds who needed it. I've only seen adults who were on it as children and ended up with problems and then people who abused it (i.e., hey doc, I need a higher dosage, and a higher dosage) while friends were dipping into their prescription because it made them skinny and clean the house faster. I spent time with someone while they were not on it and they were lovely and normal. Then the next time I saw that person she was taking ADHD meds and she acted so bizarre and irrational and bordered on being a bad parent because she couldn't go to sleep. Browsing the ADHD boards and asking questions only made me dislike these meds even more. Remember, it is ADHD adults on these boards, not children, so again, I'm basing my opinion on adult takers of ADHD medicine. I have zero experience with small kids on it. And of course, when for example my child has strep throat I give them antibiotics. I'm just opposed to medications that can be sidestepped with natural methods (i.e., sleeping pills). By all means, if a child's life drastically improves with medication they should take the medication.

 

[suesam]

This discussion is exactly why I posted this question on TUG. I am learning a lot. It is very clear how serious of an issue this is and how scarey it is that college kids are abusing it. It makes you skinny, energetic and you can focus? How tempting if you do not know all of the risks.
The M&M parties are too scarey for me to even comprehend.

Thank you all for educating me.

Sue

 

[Luanne]

I'm sorry, but I have to make one more comment. Until you do have experience with a child with ADHD it's very easy to say what you would or wouldn't do. And just knowing someone with it, isn't the same as parenting a child with ADHD, or having it yourself. I get so tired of those who preach about the "other" methods to treat ADHD when they really have no experience with it at all. Okay, getting off my soapbox now. :deadhorse:

 

[pjrose]

I in no means meant to insult those with a real need for that medication.

No insult taken!

Another before and after example - DD's elem school teacher, whom we did NOT tell about the meds, told us "today is the first time she ever sat still when they were sitting in a circle on the carpet and I was reading to the class." I asked what DD used to do, I was told "oh, she would just walk around, sometimes dump the wastebasket, stand on the desk...." With meds, the same child (now 16) can sit for hours focusing - e.g. 1000 pc jigsaw puzzles, math homework..... The meds - and counseling - are by no means a complete solution, but they sure help.

 

[Wonka]

DH and I are both college professors. I don't know if there are any studies of this, but my bet is that staying up to cram - with or without drugs - does not enhance the students' performance. Those who are staying up all night are likely those who were not on top of the material in the first place, so they're likely to do worse on tests anyway. In our experience, students performance is usually pretty consistent throughout the semester - those who start out with good work, attend class, contribute, etc are those who get As and Bs; those who don't attend, don't keep up with the reading, don't pay attention get the Ds and Fs. They may believe that drugs will enhance their performance, but that doesn't seem to be substantiated in our experience.

Very good point! You certainly could be right.

 

[Mel]

My problem with it is that I've personally seen really only bad results, not good. Honestly, I've never personally met a child "before" and "after" ADHD meds who needed it. I've only seen adults who were on it as children and ended up with problems and then people who abused it... I have zero experience with small kids on it. And of course, when for example my child has strep throat I give them antibiotics. I'm just opposed to medications that can be sidestepped with natural methods (i.e., sleeping pills). By all means, if a child's life drastically improves with medication they should take the medication.

The effectiveness of these medication may in fact be the reason you don't know about any "before and after" children. The biggest problem with the meds if finding the right one for each child, and the right dosage. I thankfully did not end up medicating my DD, but did have to seriously consider it - and the ONLY reason we didn't end up medicating was because of an exceptionally supportive school environment. Even so, I suspect if we chose medication, DD would be and even better student, but we have chosen to avoid them.

It's not just that ADHD is overdiagnosed, but that it is underdiagnosed at the same time - many who don't really have it are diagnosed, and because of the stigma associated with the diagnosis, many children who should be diagnosed are not.

Those adults you know who abuse these drugs are no different than those who abuse other drugs. I know many adults who are irresponsible, and probably should lose custody of their children, and it almost always boils down to selfishness. Those who abuse prescription medications like the way they feel on them, and choose that feeling over everything else - no different than the alcoholic who chooses to drink, or those addicted to more "traditional" drugs. In my experience, for those the drugs work on, they either don't notice the difference themselves, or don't want to take them - they're the ones that say "I don't need them anymore, because I've been cured." Well, yeah you're acting better, but that's BECAUSE of the drugs.

There are many maintenance drugs, used for a variety of reasons. When needed, they do wonderful things, but there is always the potential for abuse.

As for those college students, the drugs (even no-doze) don't really help long-term. Cramming will allow you to retain the information for a test the next day, but most of it won't make it to long-term memory. When you take your next exam, you have that much more to memorize. I recall many professors who preferred open-book tests because more difficult questions could be asked.

The M&M parties do scare me, and they are not just college student, high school students hold them too. Young adults, and those approaching adulthood don't have the best judgement, and some adults never learn it either. I my college days it was alcohol, though I recall a few classmated ending up in alcohol induced comas, and two who died of alcohol poisoning, so maybe it's not really all that different.

 

[mepiccolo]

I'm sorry, but I have to make one more comment. Until you do have experience with a child with ADHD it's very easy to say what you would or wouldn't do. And just knowing someone with it, isn't the same as parenting a child with ADHD, or having it yourself. I get so tired of those who preach about the "other" methods to treat ADHD when they really have no experience with it at all. Okay, getting off my soapbox now. :deadhorse:

Boy, I really touched a nerve with you and I must say I find your picture offensive. And, you may not like this but my opinion remains the same, I would not, under any circumstances, give my child ADHD medication. I'm glad the medication has helped your child. That does not mean it's the answer for every family. The ADHD meds haven't been around very long. I would be too worried about the effects down the line, especially since, as I said before, I know two persons who suffer from depression in early adulthood who were on ADHD medication as kids/teenagers. Just because I don't have a child with ADHD doesn't mean I can't have an opinion, based on knowing people who do and also from researching it on adult ADHD boards, of what I would do if I were in that situation. Just because someone would choose to handle a situation differently than you doesn't mean that person thinks you are wrong (as I said in my previous posts). But that doesn't make me a horse's ___. Venting in a mean way because you are anonymous is still rude, and so I throw that picture right back at you, since you earned it by using it in the first place.

 

[pjrose]

But that doesn't make me a horse's ___.

To try to mediate a bit here......

The picture is captioned "deadhorse", presumably meaning "beating a dead horse with a stick", which means trying to do something hopeless. To me that meant she couldn't change your mind, not that she was calling you a "horse's _____"

 

[mepiccolo]

Thank you PJRose for painting the meaning through nicer, rose colored glasses, and Happy Friday to you. Unfortunately, given the context of what was said before the picture, I still find the picture offensive and unnecessary.

As to the original poster, I wish you all the best with your kids at school. May this worrying be interest you are paying on a debt you will never owe.

 

[Charlie D.]

Mepiccolo,

Yep, your precious opinion has indeed gotten you out on a thin limb and my guess is we’ll get the privilege of seeing you saw it off behind yourself. The poster may be a parent of a child with ADHD. My grandson has ADHD. You want to see a “good” example of how meds work? Come watch him for a day without his meds and then watch him with them. My daughter and son-in-law rely on ADHD support meetings with other parents and medical advice, not goggling for an answer. Shoot, I guess if we ran him around the block a few times they could save a lot of money. Unless you’ve actually crossed the bridge or are crossing it, don’t sit on your high perch and say what you would or would not do if you were the one in the situation. You saw one adult abuse a drug and basing an opinion on that?? (oh, I forgot about the web site research also). This thread started out about a college drug. Before long, you start declaring that by golly my kids would never be allowed to take meds if they had ADHD. Where did that come from? But since you brought it up – this is my response (er – opinion).

Charlie D.

 

[pjrose]

... As I said before, I know some kids do have ADHD and do benefit from the medication, and I in no means meant to insult those with a real need for that medication. ..... By all means, if a child's life drastically improves with medication they should take the medication.

Mepiccolo,

Yep, your precious opinion has indeed gotten you out on a thin limb and my guess is we’ll get the privilege of seeing you saw it off behind yourself. ... don’t sit on your high perch and say what you would or would not do if you were the one in the situation. ...Before long, you start declaring that by golly my kids would never be allowed to take meds if they had ADHD. Where did that come from? But since you brought it up – this is my response (er – opinion).

Charlie D.

C'mon, let's not risk this thread being pulled. As you can see above, Mepiccolo has been polite and has acknowledged that the meds can work. Argumentative comments/adjectives such as those underlined above are not necessary. We should be able to discuss and debate an issue without personal commentary.

 

[swift]

Ok folks. Parenting issues are very personnel. Lets remember the Be Courteous Rule.


Be Courteous
As we read and respond to others, disagreements are inevitable. Differing points of view are welcomed, and indeed the bbs would be a dull place without them. All users are expected and required to express their disagreements civilly. Refrain from name calling and behavior lectures. Personal attacks will not be tolerated and repeated offenses could get you banned from the bbs. Lively discussion is what the board is all about, but that is no excuse for boorish behavior or bad manners. We are assumed to all be adults. If you don't like a particular thread, stop reading it!

 

[Luanne]

To try to mediate a bit here......

The picture is captioned "deadhorse", presumably meaning "beating a dead horse with a stick", which means trying to do something hopeless. To me that meant she couldn't change your mind, not that she was calling you a "horse's _____"

Thanks. That is what I meant. I was really looking for an icon of "stepping off the soapbox" and couldn't find one, so I thought this one expressed how I felt almost as well. I apologize if it was taken incorrectly. I've gotten into these "debates" with others before, and they are usually with folks who have an opinion (which of course they are entitled to) but no experience with a child with ADHD. And yes, I do have a child with ADHD. So, I still say, until you walked in their shoes you don't really know what you would do.