The era of $10K new money trade-ins is dead. My experience from Owner's Update at Parc, with trade-in deal approvals going all the way to Corporate.

[Nowaker]

You all know I constantly attend HGVC Owner Updates whenever invited, and push salespeople hard to give me a good trade-in offer with $8K to $10K new money. This is my 4th update this year, and every attempt has failed. This time is special though. I got this offer go through the local sales office (salesman -> inventory manager -> most likely top official at this sales office but unsure, maybe the inventory manager is the head of the office), but failed at the corporate level (HGVC HQ). Our IDs, SSNs and payment method (Aspire CC - no loan) were handed over to the HQ pending final approval and execution - which failed. Here's the offer:

Trade-in properties:

• Blvd 8,000 annual, 2 BR, Gold - $16,740 trade-in value
• Blvd 5,440 biennial, 1 BR, Gold - $11,669 trade-in value
• Trump 8,400 annual, Studio Plus, Platinum - $30,990 trade-in value

New property:

• Hokulani 13,440 annual, 1 BR Premier (1BX), Platinum
  • $1,460 MF
  • $0.109 MFpp - pretty good overall, similar to Flamingo 2 BR Plat $0.106 MFpp but not as great as Blvd 2 BR Plat $0.089 MFpp
  • 14% better MFpp than trade-ins
• $12,464 new money (incl. closing costs)

Overall, this means the era of ~$10K new money trade-ins is officially proclaimed dead, since it went all the way to corporate where it failed.

It was fun, all guys were very friendly, and really wanted to make it work, so bummer for both them and me. I felt HGV Max and exchanging my three worst deeds for 14% better MFpp was worth the $12K. Welp. Got 70K HH for my time, and crucial info for us here.

Greetings from Parc Soleil, here for 4 more nights!

 

[GT75]

Honestly, I am a little surprised that you didn't get it to go through.

 

[RX8]

What was their original offer?

I know it is all a numbers game but you had $58K in trades plus $12K cash. Curious if they told you what the price was without trades.

 

[Nowaker]

What was their original offer?

I never let them work on their typical $25K new money crap offer as I wouldn't accept it anyway. Rather, to save my time, I told them exactly what I want - which is $10K trade-in, better MFpp, lower points total is fine, and which deeds they're allowed to take (I forbid touching my Flamingo, the rest was fair game).

 

[PigsDad]

I never let them work on their typical $25K new money crap offer as I wouldn't accept it anyway. Rather, to save my time, I told them exactly what I want - which is $10K trade-in, better MFpp, lower points total is fine, and which deeds they're allowed to take (I forbid touching my Flamingo, the rest was fair game).

I don't see any situation where I would pay them thousands of dollars to reduce my total annual points. A slight reduction in MF/point cost is never going to make financial sense in my portfolio, however I do only have Platinum deeds. But that's just me...

Kurt

 

[TheDude]

I think I would have been tempted to do a new money trade-in deed if I were a bit younger. Part of my calculus is how many years to amortize the cost. The younger you are the lower the annual amortization of the new money(lower annual cost). Maybe if I were 10-years younger.

 

[Nowaker]

I don't see any situation where I would pay them thousands of dollars to reduce my total annual points. A slight reduction in MF/point cost is never going to make financial sense in my portfolio, however I do only have Platinum deeds. But that's just me...

Kurt

I can always acquire more points for closing costs, so fewer points for better MFpp isn't a problem for me. Max + 14% improvement in MFpp felt worth it. (Plus, I think, I'd get to the first tier under max because I have Coylumbridge 11200 that counts as retail) People are willing to give up their Vegas Gold deeds left and right. There's always a good number of people who won't fall for typical broker spiel and list Blvd 2 BR Gold for an unreasonable price, only for it to get no movement for months, and then ending up as "hot deal" "priced to sell" for $500 or $800 and broker gets everything anyway, when they can go with me and be done with it in a matter of two weeks.

 

[SmithOp]

I'd say keep trying, you are well equipped to handle the sales meeting. You might catch them at the end of a quarter willing to make a deal.

 

[weems637]

When Corporate heard "he made us an offer before we got to use our magic pen", corporate says "that's not how its supposed to work"!

 

[ernststarhemberg]

Hold firm! I'm thinking they will be more inclined 'stoop' to the $10k cash level once again when the recession hits and fewer people are buying.

 

[Nowaker]

When Corporate heard "he made us an offer before we got to use our magic pen", corporate says "that's not how its supposed to work"!

You're assuming too much about how information flows. An offer is submitted for approval, and someone either accepts or rejects it. There's no place for a full description of a full process on how the offer came to be in a corporate world. Maybe add a body cam recording for corporate review, eh?

Hold firm! I'm thinking they will be more inclined 'stoop' to the $10k cash level once again when the recession hits and fewer people are buying.

Of course I will. They keep inviting me to these meetings, and I happily go every single time. 70K HH is great value.

 

[Talent312]

Do you have a written rejection from MetroWest (corporate HQ)?
It could be that the local sales-weasels made that part up.,,
Sales manager: "We don't want him to think we turned him down."
.

 

[bizaro86]

Do you have a written rejection from MetroWest (corporate HQ)?
It could be that the local sales-weasels made that part up.,,
Sales manager: "We don't want him to think we turned him down."
.

The sales people want to make sales and earn commissions. If local was going to turn it down they'd very probably have done so during the presentation, then tried to get more new money or something else out of him.

 

[ernststarhemberg]

How do their commissions work? Is it a flat % of the deed sold, cash brought to the table, tiered based on level/quality of deed?

 

[letsgobobby]

I can always acquire more points for closing costs, so fewer points for better MFpp isn't a problem for me.

i appreciate your report and think your approach is interesting. But isn't part of the reason they can fairly easily lower your $/MF is because you've picked up a lot of gold deeds for near nothing? by definition those don't have rock bottom $/MF. if you had gotten each of your deeds at plat rather than gold, your $/MF would be better and they probably couldn't have touched it. you would have paid more, as well, but more than $12,464? since I value Max at close to zero my calculus would be that paying the same (in new money) as the cost of the plat deeds would have been is a worse deal since it results in fewer points overall in exchange for something (max) I don't value.

what do you value Max at?

 

[Nowaker]

what do you value Max at?

"Value" is hard to define, more on it later. But $5K to $8K is fair in terms of how much I'd pay for it. They seem to have a lot of promotions. Some properties have like -60% or even -75% on bookings. While the salesman was doing his work on the backend, I was clicking through the portal and checking availability on everything in Max from HGVC side as they inadvertently left it logged in on their screen I could find a lot of availability at several properties. Not the top tier like Hawaii DRI, but most Arizona properties were bookable, and a lot of interesting properties in Europe that I could send my mom to vacation some day. Like 1 BR ocean view for 1,500 points is a steal. And I compared the open market rate of course.

you would have paid more, as well, but more than $12,464?

Getting a 2 BR Plat 11,200 pts is currently $7K all inclusive. When accounted for the fact Hokulani is 13,440, that's $8.5K.

$12.5K-$8.5K = $4K more, but get HGV Max and Preferred+ (valued at $350/year for free open season).

Of course, there's also the acquisition cost of these resale properties which was $1.5K for Blvd, $1.5K Trump, and $600 for the second Blvd. So that's $4K (cost difference between retail and resale) + $3.6K (original acquisition cost of tradeins) = $7.6K more for HGV Max.

All in all, I think $7.6K is fair for HGV Max. (And pretty much in line with this future a-la-carte membership in Max that is listed in the club rules but can't be acquired in any way)

I've spent 144,108 HGVC points since December 2021 on completed stays. I have another 54,902 points booked for the rest of 2023 and early 2024 (excluding 2 superbowl home weeks for resale).

At this pace, I'll may be running out of destinations in a year or two, so HGV Max would be of value for me. Hard to put a number to it, but it would indeed be valuable.

I appreciate your numbers-focused questions though, and I'll keep this in mind when trying to get a similar deal next time.

 

[TheDude]

Based on this thread, I will actually let the HGVC salesperson price out how much it would cost to "legitimize" my Boulevard Gold when I'm in an owner's update. Seems like the math may work if the planets align. Great thread.

 

[letsgobobby]

"Value" is hard to define, more on it later. But $5K to $8K is fair in terms of how much I'd pay for it. They seem to have a lot of promotions. Some properties have like -60% or even -75% on bookings. While the salesman was doing his work on the backend, I was clicking through the portal and checking availability on everything in Max from HGVC side as they inadvertently left it logged in on their screen I could find a lot of availability at several properties. Not the top tier like Hawaii DRI, but most Arizona properties were bookable, and a lot of interesting properties in Europe that I could send my mom to vacation some day. Like 1 BR ocean view for 1,500 points is a steal. And I compared the open market rate of course.

Getting a 2 BR Plat 11,200 pts is currently $7K all inclusive. When accounted for the fact Hokulani is 13,440, that's $8.5K.

$12.5K-$8.5K = $4K more, but get HGV Max and Preferred+ (valued at $350/year for free open season).

Of course, there's also the acquisition cost of these resale properties which was $1.5K for Blvd, $1.5K Trump, and $600 for the second Blvd. So that's $4K (cost difference between retail and resale) + $3.6K (original acquisition cost of tradeins) = $7.6K more for HGV Max.

All in all, I think $7.6K is fair for HGV Max. (And pretty much in line with this future a-la-carte membership in Max that is listed in the club rules but can't be acquired in any way)

I've spent 144,108 HGVC points since December 2021 on completed stays. I have another 54,902 points booked for the rest of 2023 and early 2024 (excluding 2 superbowl home weeks for resale).

At this pace, I'll may be running out of destinations in a year or two, so HGV Max would be of value for me. Hard to put a number to it, but it would indeed be valuable.

I appreciate your numbers-focused questions though, and I'll keep this in mind when trying to get a similar deal next time.

Say I valued Max like you around $7500. i have only plat properties and 2 of 3 I want/use home resort priority. I paid $2000 including all closing/transfer costs for my EOY MarBrisa 11,200 MF $1500. They could offer me something for that and lower my $/MF. What would your bottom line deal me in my shoes , if valuing Max around $7500? Like you assume I don't want them touching my two deeds where I have home week priority, unless the new deed was at one of those resorts (more likely W57 than Lagoon).

 

[Snezz1e]

I might try to trade in some gold deeds in future. One thing I'm curious about is what your contract terms are in regards to your unused current and next year points.

Can you deposit your points to RCI or convert next year points to Hilton Honors before the sale is fully processed? Or do they lock you in allowing no changes or require some kind of prorated reimbursement for usage. If that is the case maybe you're better off "spending" all possible points before taking a meeting.

 

[letsgobobby]

if anyone ever gets them to bite on something like this please post! Like getting rid of a bunch of gold weeks for a marginal delta in cash over what the equivalent plat weeks would have cost on the market - personally I am skeptical this will happen unless that delta is pretty large. They know as well as we do the difference in value between gold and plat weeks and presumably want cash well in excess of that delta. But if they go for it that could be a way to get into Max through the back door.

Example: you own 4 Elara gold 1/1 (8000) picked up $2000 each, and they take those for $20k and give you a deed around 15k points with better $/MF ratio. If you had bought four plat 1/1 it might have cost you 4*$7000 = $28k for 44,800 points. in that case you're even on money invested; now have fewer points than the four plat deeds would have been but similar $/MF and now you have Max. Analysis will onviously depend on detailed numbers. But something like this seems close to getting Max "for free" and for this reason I'd be surprised if they'd go for it.

 

[Snezz1e]

if anyone ever gets them to bite on something like this please post! Like getting rid of a bunch of gold weeks for a marginal delta in cash over what the equivalent plat weeks would have cost on the market - personally I am skeptical this will happen unless that delta is pretty large. They know as well as we do the difference in value between gold and plat weeks and presumably want cash well in excess of that delta. But if they go for it that could be a way to get into Max through the back door.

Example: you own 4 Elara gold 1/1 (8000) picked up $2000 each, and they take those for $20k and give you a deed around 15k points with better $/MF ratio. If you had bought four plat 1/1 it might have cost you 4*$7000 = $28k for 44,800 points. in that case you're even on money invested; now have fewer points than the four plat deeds would have been but similar $/MF and now you have Max. Analysis will onviously depend on detailed numbers. But something like this seems close to getting Max "for free" and for this reason I'd be surprised if they'd go for it.

That's what I'm going to try to do in September if my all my purchases go through in time. I'm aiming to buy the 20k+ platinum deeds at Ocean Tower, Enclave, or Elara. Trade in deeds I bought for 5-10k and bring in 20k new money. The deeds with $.06/p MF are worth more than 30k in the market. I want to buy at least 2-3 to get Premier+ status so I'm hoping they are more lenient on new money with multiple deed purchase but I think it's still worth it if they're not. If I can get a really good deal I might even go for Centum.

 

[Nowaker]

Can you deposit your points to RCI or convert next year points to Hilton Honors before the sale is fully processed? Or do they lock you in allowing no changes or require some kind of prorated reimbursement for usage. If that is the case maybe you're better off "spending" all possible points before taking a meeting.

You paid MFs for current year so points stay for current year.

Next year points will be removed, and next year points for the new deed will be added.

Moreover, you'll have a choice if you want this year's points from the new deed, and if yes, you'll be billed MFs.

Anything deposited to RCI would stay there as yours. When it's in RCI, it's a done deal.

I don't know what would happen to a next year's home week booking after the underlying deed is traded in. But I can speculate it would probably stay, but the points would get removed twice (one time - already deducted because of the booking; second time - after trading in). After all, points is just a currency, and if something doesn't balance, they can internally cover with their unsold inventory.

bring in 20k new money

You'll have no issue at all. I was offered 20K or 25K tradeins several times in 2022 and 2023.

Note the only thing that cannot be easily traded in is Elara deeds. You can only trade in Elara for Elara. No mix and matching. It was confirmed twice by two different salesmen at two different locations (Elara and Parc).

 

[ernststarhemberg]

Note the only thing that cannot be easily traded in is Elara deeds. You can only trade in Elara for Elara. No mix and matching. It was confirmed twice by two different salesmen at two different locations (Elara and Parc).

Interesting! Why is that?

 

[Snezz1e]

Clarification on the no mix and matching. I'll probably have a 11k Elara to use as trade. Looking to get either 20k 1BR Elara bHC or 23k 2BR Elara. Are you saying they'll only take my Elara deed and won't allow any of my LV or NYC deeds? In that case I'll need to buy another one or two Elara deed to trade in.

 

[HuskerATL]

interesting thread. I am not sure there is a way that I would go from Legacy Elite Premier to Max since I would lose benefits. They would have to make all my resale count toward retail and then put us at Premier + but even with it, I would lose some benefits.