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The Credit-Card Rule That Powers Rewards Cards Just Got Broken

jp10558

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I still think much of this is merchants shooting themselves in the foot. You start making people worry about their card being declined, you see less people buying. You also have the issue that many people live via CC, and making them pay cash makes them not buy either. If merchants think issuing their own charge cards or the like will be popular, I think another return to the 70s is going to turn off lots of consumers also. No one wants a card at each store they might shop at.

I maintain, the worst thing to do is introduce friction into a potential sale.
 
I read a similar article earlier this morning. I just don't understand why there would be different merchant fees based on the actual credit card used. I didn't really even know there was such a thing. It doesn't make sense to me. The merchant has no idea when a customer swipes what their fees might be?

This just shows that someone has to pay for those reward points and benefits the cardholder is getting and it certainly isn't the bank. It ends up being the merchant who ultimately passes it on to the consumer. What percentage of the price is inflated to cover all these reward programs. Double and triple dipping.
 
From what I have read, some cards indeed charge higher fees. I know i have had 1 or 2 merchants over the years comment about the higher fees with my Sapphire Reserve, which is a Visa Infinite card.

I pulled this from Reddit: Merchants will be able to choose whether to accept U.S. credit cards in distinct categories—commercial, premium consumer, and standard consumer. Premium includes Visa Signature, Visa Infinite, Mastercard World, Mastercard World Elite, and Mastercard World Legend. Anything else, consumer credit is "standard".

I am sure many, probably most, people are unsure of the type of cards they have. This seems to be very difficult for merchants to decide which cards to accept or decline.
 
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Just checked mine to make sure - both of my regular cards - Chase Sapphire Preferred and my Chase Southwest Visa (neither are the premium cards) are Visa Signature.

This will be interesting. In addition to points I like the fraud protection, the rental car insurance, travel insurance and the convenience of payment. Will we are be forced to move to cards with no features to be able to use them? Will the card issuers lower the merchant fees?
 
I just have 2% cash reward cards, no real "premium" cards. Sure, the price is adjusted to include merchant fees.
Many small restaurants give a cash discount or charge extra for credit cards
 
I read a similar article earlier this morning. I just don't understand why there would be different merchant fees based on the actual credit card used. I didn't really even know there was such a thing. It doesn't make sense to me. The merchant has no idea when a customer swipes what their fees might be?

This just shows that someone has to pay for those reward points and benefits the cardholder is getting and it certainly isn't the bank. It ends up being the merchant who ultimately passes it on to the consumer. What percentage of the price is inflated to cover all these reward programs. Double and triple dipping.
The part I don't get is that I have a Square. It charges the same rate for everything. At least as far as I can tell. I've been looking into it recently, and it seems like maybe you can get from 2.9% to 2.6% in person card present rates with Paypal (though their site has been so broken for a couple months that I decided to keep with Square for now). This is the walk up you have nothing rate. So I know people can start obsessing about tenths of a percent - maybe if you do a large volume this can matter - but I have to wonder just how low the rates get for "basic cards"?
 
Just checked mine to make sure - both of my regular cards - Chase Sapphire Preferred and my Chase Southwest Visa (neither are the premium cards) are Visa Signature.

This will be interesting. In addition to points I like the fraud protection, the rental car insurance, travel insurance and the convenience of payment. Will we are be forced to move to cards with no features to be able to use them? Will the card issuers lower the merchant fees?
I suppose it depends on the business and how it all plays out. I can tell you I've walked when they don't take Amex. I've also lowered my purchase amount and used cash. I suppose it will depend on how many people will change their credit cards vs how many stores will continue to "take everything". I've yet to find a store that takes apple pay for instance and won't take a traditional card, and I also think taking the digital wallets is going to be important for younger customers.
 
I just have 2% cash reward cards, no real "premium" cards. Sure, the price is adjusted to include merchant fees.
Many small restaurants give a cash discount or charge extra for credit cards
I think to be honest, I think the preference for cash is so they can cheat on their taxes. Otherwise I still think it's mispricing the cost of dealing with cash for them.
 
I have been paying a premium for using credit cards at gas stations and restaurants for at least 6 months
Any card
ATT will no longer give me a discount for autopay if it is done with a credit card
Only direct withdrawal from bank account qualifies for the $10 per line discount
It is getting acceptable for more merchants to charge extra to use a credit card
The latest for me was at an ACE hardware store in North Dakota (Yesterday)
 
I think to be honest, I think the preference for cash is so they can cheat on their taxes. Otherwise I still think it's mispricing the cost of dealing with cash for them.
I would think if a merchant accepts cash in any amount, the incremental cost of accepting more cash isn't that much. The only way they can really get any savings is to simply accept no cash at all.
 
We live almost totally on our Costco VISA Card. We get back 5% for Gas purchased at Costco; 4% for Gas purchased anywhere else; 3% back on all Travel and Restaurants; 2% for non-Gas purchases at Costco; and, 1% on everything else.
 
I see more and more merchants moving to credit card processing services that charge the customer the entire fee . . . thereby letting the merchant bypass any credit card fees, It's become a real issue around here . . . and more and more if you want to avoid paying to use a credit card, you're going to have to carry & pay in cash.
 
I think to be honest, I think the preference for cash is so they can cheat on their taxes. Otherwise I still think it's mispricing the cost of dealing with cash for them.

WinCo only takes cash and debit. They say it's to keep costs low. I found this out at check out when I was suppose to pay. I usually use our credit card for this type of transaction. I had no way to pay and there isn't a sign as you walk in that says no credit cards accepted. I felt bad as I just said ok and left everything in the bagging area.

Bill
 
WinCo only takes cash and debit. They say it's to keep costs low. I found this out at check out when I was suppose to pay. I usually use our credit card for this type of transaction. I had no way to pay and there isn't a sign as you walk in that says no credit cards accepted. I felt bad as I just said ok and left everything in the bagging area.

Bill
Aldi used to do the same many years ago, but they ultimately started accepting credit cards.
 
WinCo only takes cash and debit. They say it's to keep costs low. I found this out at check out when I was suppose to pay. I usually use our credit card for this type of transaction. I had no way to pay and there isn't a sign as you walk in that says no credit cards accepted. I felt bad as I just said ok and left everything in the bagging area.

Bill
WINCO is about the only place I still use a Debit Card.
 
Just checked mine to make sure - both of my regular cards - Chase Sapphire Preferred and my Chase Southwest Visa (neither are the premium cards) are Visa Signature.

This will be interesting. In addition to points I like the fraud protection, the rental car insurance, travel insurance and the convenience of payment. Will we are be forced to move to cards with no features to be able to use them? Will the card issuers lower the merchant fees?
By the definition provided, Visa Signature cards are 'premium'. Both of your mid-tier examples have annual fees too, although that's not a reliable as an indicator. My no annual fee Costco card is a Visa Signature and I have another card with an annual fee that is just a Visa. The 2% back no annual fee cards I have are 'premium' by the referenced definition. 🤔
 
V & MC have only offered a 0.1% redxn in swipe fees (from the 2-2.5%, avg 2.3%); retailers seem to still not be happy. A similar agreement was rejected by the court. Let's see what EDNY says to this settlement...
Looks like, even if ratified, ongoing litigation continues and these changes won't go-live until late 2026 or early 2027 or so..
Another interesting perspective from Barrons folks.. (free fulltext included)

“The most material impact from this would likely be felt by issuers (and potentially major loyalty program partners) given direct interchange reduction; assuming 2% average interchange, it ultimately would be an approximately 5% hit to revenue,” Bergin writes.

JPMorgan’s Tien-tsin Huang calls the agreement a “manageable surprise,” noting the fee reduction is less than expected. In addition, he thinks few retailers will refuse reward cards because “lower income consumers are the fastest growing cohort of reward card adopters.”
 
The easier solution is to just pass on the credit card fees to the consumer. Why should people paying cash subsidize credit card users?
 
I would think if a merchant accepts cash in any amount, the incremental cost of accepting more cash isn't that much. The only way they can really get any savings is to simply accept no cash at all.
Well, I think it really depends on scale. For instance, gas stations. If you stop taking cards or push people to cash much harder, then you go back to lines at the one checkout counter, so now you get people going to the next gas station cause they don't want to wait or you're hiring additional employees just to man additional cash registers. Plus, managing cash for 1 out of 100 customers is different than for 1 out of 2 - you need more petty cash on hand, you have to more often cycle for bills for change, you become more of a target for robbery cause you have more cash, your scale might change from an employee making a bank drop off at night to needing Brinks to come because of amounts etc etc.

You also have the issues with making change - most people don't know how today, so unless you also buy machinery to do that, or pay more for what's now more of a special skill in hiring, you've got even more chances for screwups.

The more registers you have to have, the more reconciliation and such you have, this doesn't scale great because it's all hand labor, and if you don't do the double counting and checks and balances, you're really open to a lot of embezzlement / skimming by your employees (again, who unless you're paying A LOT more than the minimum will have a lot more temptation and ability with lots of cash vs swiping credit cards). Heck, McDonalds makes you jump through hoops and try and call over an employee to pay in cash... It mostly is kiosks. If the card processing was really so bad, why wouldn't they be keeping employees taking cash? Because the employee costs are worse IMO.
 
The easier solution is to just pass on the credit card fees to the consumer. Why should people paying cash subsidize credit card users?
The question for a merchant is just - if you make 40% of your customers feel like second class people because you're charging more, some percentage will take their business elsewhere. It also seems like a junk charge to consumers. At the very least, I want to see big signs on the door before I start shopping that you don't take cards, or that you charge extra. And as they start to try and have matrixes for the cards I imagine more people will get turned off. They'll think I'll have to have cash, and now you're passing hassle to your customers.

What I want to know is how does this affect Apple Pay and other digital wallets?
 
The move to accepting credit cards was fueled by the notion that the merchant would avoid the regular small costs of collecting, storing, and transporting cash; the risk of bad checks, back when checks were a thing; and the occasional huge cost of fraud, theft, etc. by employees. The card companies must have figured out how merchants can mitigate these, or just have them plan to shove the costs to the consumer, figuring that by now we'll just pay them, rather than carrying cash and waiting in line to pay.

There is an opportunity here for someone, but I don't know for whom or what it is.

I don't as yet reject using a card for a small thing like a restaurant, but I pay my T-mobile bill by bank transfer to qualify for the autopay discount, and certainly pay any local thing via a free method. My lawnmower guy has an online billing service that charges 4%, so I just send him a BillPay check for free, on a typical summer $240 monthly bill.
 
The move to accepting credit cards was fueled by the notion that the merchant would avoid the regular small costs of collecting, storing, and transporting cash; the risk of bad checks, back when checks were a thing; and the occasional huge cost of fraud, theft, etc. by employees. The card companies must have figured out how merchants can mitigate these, or just have them plan to shove the costs to the consumer, figuring that by now we'll just pay them, rather than carrying cash and waiting in line to pay.

There is an opportunity here for someone, but I don't know for whom or what it is.

I don't as yet reject using a card for a small thing like a restaurant, but I pay my T-mobile bill by bank transfer to qualify for the autopay discount, and certainly pay any local thing via a free method. My lawnmower guy has an online billing service that charges 4%, so I just send him a BillPay check for free, on a typical summer $240 monthly bill.
That's the thing, these people are bringing back checks. I guess everyone who'd bounce checks is using cards now? Having to wait to get a check in the mail, wait for it to clear, is also a cost in time, but whatever.
 
Well, I think it really depends on scale. For instance, gas stations. If you stop taking cards or push people to cash much harder, then you go back to lines at the one checkout counter, so now you get people going to the next gas station cause they don't want to wait or you're hiring additional employees just to man additional cash registers. Plus, managing cash for 1 out of 100 customers is different than for 1 out of 2 - you need more petty cash on hand, you have to more often cycle for bills for change, you become more of a target for robbery cause you have more cash, your scale might change from an employee making a bank drop off at night to needing Brinks to come because of amounts etc etc.

You also have the issues with making change - most people don't know how today, so unless you also buy machinery to do that, or pay more for what's now more of a special skill in hiring, you've got even more chances for screwups.

The more registers you have to have, the more reconciliation and such you have, this doesn't scale great because it's all hand labor, and if you don't do the double counting and checks and balances, you're really open to a lot of embezzlement / skimming by your employees (again, who unless you're paying A LOT more than the minimum will have a lot more temptation and ability with lots of cash vs swiping credit cards). Heck, McDonalds makes you jump through hoops and try and call over an employee to pay in cash... It mostly is kiosks. If the card processing was really so bad, why wouldn't they be keeping employees taking cash? Because the employee costs are worse IMO.
Most of these additional costs are overblown. Cash registers calculate change and most people running a register can still count. It isn't like they aren't doing cash transactions today. The costs of labor to count drawers might go up slightly, but not considerably. They already either have a drop safe that is cleared by a paid service already or they already have someone running existing cash for bank drops.

There are other reasons that McDonalds and such like to use apps and kiosks and it doesn't have anything to do with cash vs card transactions. It actually increases sales. Someone is likely to order more food when someone isn't standing there taking their order. People feel judged when ordering two sandwiches instead of one. Or an extra burrito. Electronic ordering increases sales. I suspect most big restaurant and retail chains will probably either continue to accept all cards or use the possible new agreements as leverage to get card issuers to reduce interchange fees for certain card types. I still don't understand why there are different fees for different types of cards. It seems the issuers are trying to double dip as most of these premium cards also have high annual fees. They want to take from the merchant and take from the consumer, at the same time.

It should also be noted that reward cards in general cause people spend more money than they normally would if they had just spent cash. That is even true for people that pay the card off every month. So overall, for the financial health of individuals, going to cash is probably a better move. Americans overall have more than a trillion dollars in credit card debt.
 
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