S
Steamboat Bill
Does 60 minutes ever do any hidden camers shows on timeshare salesmen?
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The Biggest Timeshare Scam
- Thread starter JLB
- Start date
beanb41
TUG Member
Why blame the Timeshare salesman, what about the purchaser taking some of the "blame". If purchasers did their homework properly then many of the bad stories coming out of timeshare purchases wouldnt happen. I sell resale weeks as part of my business, but I sell the concept of investments in holidays not Real Esate and I have no disatisfied customers. I also take the time to go through the benefits of exchanges and ongoing maintenance fees.
Nearly all the resale weeks I take away from a current owner have become a liability from what was initially sold as an asset.
The internet was not available when I bought my first timeshare hence I knew no better by buying from a developer. There are no excuses today.
Nearly all the resale weeks I take away from a current owner have become a liability from what was initially sold as an asset.
The internet was not available when I bought my first timeshare hence I knew no better by buying from a developer. There are no excuses today.
Some blame to the buyer but thats the program plan
There is certainly a case to be made that the buyer isn't doing their best to make an informed decision. But the whole process is designed to make them feel good and avoid looking into options. The blame lies at least 95% with the seller who has superior knowledge and should have a duty to divulge the fact that there is an unexpected and nearly immediate drop in value of the purchase the minute the rescind right ends. Few buyers, especially first timers, know of that and even if told may find it so insane that they feel they are being fed a line. Only later - long after that 7-14 day rescind period ended - do they uncover that 50% loss is the minimum. Too late at that point.
There is certainly a case to be made that the buyer isn't doing their best to make an informed decision. But the whole process is designed to make them feel good and avoid looking into options. The blame lies at least 95% with the seller who has superior knowledge and should have a duty to divulge the fact that there is an unexpected and nearly immediate drop in value of the purchase the minute the rescind right ends. Few buyers, especially first timers, know of that and even if told may find it so insane that they feel they are being fed a line. Only later - long after that 7-14 day rescind period ended - do they uncover that 50% loss is the minimum. Too late at that point.
Let's say the Feds make a regulation that buyers must be told that their purchase may likely be worth less than they pay for it once they purchase...let's say it even says it's a lot less.
Where is that notice likely to be found? Either in another paragraph burried in the contract verbage they sign or as another sheet contained in the Welcome package they receive. OR, it might be a separate sheet, one of many they sign at purchase.
Either way, you are dreaming if you think any salesman is going to state in presenting their product, "Hey you know this is going to drop dramtically in value once you sign the agreement?"
Ahhhhhh, no. Ever see a weight loss company ad featuring a client who lost significant weight? Ever read the note in every one of those ads? Here it is: "Results Not Typical". Does this slow clientel from coming in? Maybe...probably not.
The way you combat this is by getting this information out to the public in a big way. A 60 minutes story or consumer reports article circulated in the national media is the kind of attention which could bring pressure and changes you seek.
Where is that notice likely to be found? Either in another paragraph burried in the contract verbage they sign or as another sheet contained in the Welcome package they receive. OR, it might be a separate sheet, one of many they sign at purchase.
Either way, you are dreaming if you think any salesman is going to state in presenting their product, "Hey you know this is going to drop dramtically in value once you sign the agreement?"
Ahhhhhh, no. Ever see a weight loss company ad featuring a client who lost significant weight? Ever read the note in every one of those ads? Here it is: "Results Not Typical". Does this slow clientel from coming in? Maybe...probably not.
The way you combat this is by getting this information out to the public in a big way. A 60 minutes story or consumer reports article circulated in the national media is the kind of attention which could bring pressure and changes you seek.
S
Steamboat Bill
They where would be find all the good "resale" deals?
beanb41
TUG Member
Too often gullible would be owners turn up at timeshare presentations hear the good news, buy the product and find out later its not what they want. They come for the free gift and "greed" takes over from common sense. The value of the Timeshare unit can only fall when you sell it. If you own it for 20 years and get 20 years of great holidays out of it what is the loss on sale?
I have treated the capital cost as a written off expense on purchase so I am losing nothing. I must admit that I am amazed at the cost of Timeshare in the USA. I see costs of $US25000 for a week. AT the height of the TImeshare sales downunder in the 80's we only paid $NZ7000. Resales today are at best $NZ3000. Anyone paying $25000 for the right to have a weeks holiday each year and then pay the cost of that weeks holiday each year needs his head read IMO. But then I am from the antipodes and dont understand the world of high finance
I have treated the capital cost as a written off expense on purchase so I am losing nothing. I must admit that I am amazed at the cost of Timeshare in the USA. I see costs of $US25000 for a week. AT the height of the TImeshare sales downunder in the 80's we only paid $NZ7000. Resales today are at best $NZ3000. Anyone paying $25000 for the right to have a weeks holiday each year and then pay the cost of that weeks holiday each year needs his head read IMO. But then I am from the antipodes and dont understand the world of high finance
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Timeshares don't have much to do with high finance. I know nothing about high finance, but I am sure no financial planner would ever say a timeshare, even if you purchased resale, is anything close to an investment.
I think timeshares really hit the bottom at about 20 years. There is no recovering, in my opinion. All of the updates and money invested is wasted in these older developments. Older timeshares should be reorganized and sold as condos.
One of our timeshares could easily be sold per unit for $450K, but we picked up a blue week for $1.00 on eBay, and the prime ski weeks are only about $6K. The value in those six units is in the real estate, not in the timeshare. I know some of you will think, "But timeshare is real estate." Well, then why is there such a discrepancy between the timeshare per-week price and the actual value of the whole unit? There is a difference, which is why a timeshare is not a good investment.
I think Marriott is an exception in some locations, but even Marriott dumped some of the Streamside buildings in a prime ski area. It's easier to turn the problem over to the owners, which is what all of the small developers do eventually. Once the timeshare developer is gone, you had better make sure a good board is taking care of business and that the management company is cooperating with the board's vision. If you don't have that, your property is even more worthless than the $1 properties on eBay.
JLB, I agree wholeheartedly that the developer is the biggest scammer, selling something that has little to no value in comparison within the resale market. BUT so many other companies continue to scam those who were already scammed, which is a continuance of the same crime, in my opinion. We have upfront-fee advertisers, most of which are worthless at selling timeshares, and we have postcard companies that are taking advantage of the naive and elderly. And the lies they tell, well, I have heard so many lies at these presentations, I cannot even believe what they say...........
I think timeshares really hit the bottom at about 20 years. There is no recovering, in my opinion. All of the updates and money invested is wasted in these older developments. Older timeshares should be reorganized and sold as condos.
One of our timeshares could easily be sold per unit for $450K, but we picked up a blue week for $1.00 on eBay, and the prime ski weeks are only about $6K. The value in those six units is in the real estate, not in the timeshare. I know some of you will think, "But timeshare is real estate." Well, then why is there such a discrepancy between the timeshare per-week price and the actual value of the whole unit? There is a difference, which is why a timeshare is not a good investment.
I think Marriott is an exception in some locations, but even Marriott dumped some of the Streamside buildings in a prime ski area. It's easier to turn the problem over to the owners, which is what all of the small developers do eventually. Once the timeshare developer is gone, you had better make sure a good board is taking care of business and that the management company is cooperating with the board's vision. If you don't have that, your property is even more worthless than the $1 properties on eBay.
JLB, I agree wholeheartedly that the developer is the biggest scammer, selling something that has little to no value in comparison within the resale market. BUT so many other companies continue to scam those who were already scammed, which is a continuance of the same crime, in my opinion. We have upfront-fee advertisers, most of which are worthless at selling timeshares, and we have postcard companies that are taking advantage of the naive and elderly. And the lies they tell, well, I have heard so many lies at these presentations, I cannot even believe what they say...........
MON2REY
TUG Member
Call me crazy but I don't hold the salesman responsible if I choose to buy from the developer (which I did). I do blame the buyers who fork out thousands of dollars at a new resort, maybe use it once, and then decide to sell the unit. I can understand units at older locations dropping significantly in value but why sell a new unit for only 60% of the amount you paid for it less than a year earlier. Obviously, if the new development sells out at developer prices there must be a market for the units at that price. A reseller should be able to ask, and get, 90% of the developer price. If the demand was high enough, there is no reason why they couldn't get more than the developer's price. At our TS, as the units began to sell out the developer began jacking up the price. If the reseller would just follow the developer's lead, the prices would stay up and the "investment" value would not be nearly as bad as it currently is. Bottom line...the person who buys and then has to hold a fire sale to get rid of the unit obviously should never have been approved for the purchase in the first place; for that, I do hold the developer responsible.
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[triennial - points]
Old Biz Model Can't Keep On Going As-Is Indefinitely.
And not only that, once some bold & daring segment of timeshare industry breaks out of the bad old box the industry is in & goes with a new truth-based biz model, there just might be lots less ill will associated with timeshares.
No reason.
And not only that, once some bold & daring segment of timeshare industry breaks out of the bad old box the industry is in & goes with a new truth-based biz model, there just might be lots less ill will associated with timeshares.
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.
JMAESD84
TUG Member
You're crazy.....just what are you smoken out there in Califorina anyways....good stuff evidently, stay out of Dubai.
Most developers are hard selling timeshares to people uneducated about the industry at 4 to 9 times the amount that someone can buy the exact same week for on the resale market.
You could bring your Blackberry to the presentation and pull up the eBay auction during the pitch, show the salesman the price and he's make you his best deal at 4 times the resale price and he'll even let you ring the bell.:whoopie:
BocaBum99
TUG Member
Resort Developers will continue to use their current sales and marketing model until it doesn't work anymore. It works so well that they feel there is no need to change it. They are making money hand over fist.
The only way it will change is when a large enough percentage of the population knows and understands the resale market for timeshares and refuses to buy directly from the developer in large enough numbers (average sales revenue per tour guest aka APG) to keep it profitable using that sales model. I doubt that will happen in the next 5years.
Is it a scam? Probably. Is there anything more the government can or should do? Probably not. As long as there is a reasonable recission period, the buyer had every opportunity for due diligence. If they don't exercise that right, then it really is their fault for not looking under the hood.
Given it is the way it is, we should personally thank every owner who buys directly from the developer. They are the responsible parties fueling the great deals the rest of us enjoy.
The only way it will change is when a large enough percentage of the population knows and understands the resale market for timeshares and refuses to buy directly from the developer in large enough numbers (average sales revenue per tour guest aka APG) to keep it profitable using that sales model. I doubt that will happen in the next 5years.
Is it a scam? Probably. Is there anything more the government can or should do? Probably not. As long as there is a reasonable recission period, the buyer had every opportunity for due diligence. If they don't exercise that right, then it really is their fault for not looking under the hood.
Given it is the way it is, we should personally thank every owner who buys directly from the developer. They are the responsible parties fueling the great deals the rest of us enjoy.
S
Steamboat Bill
I have never heard of anyone calling Disney any bad names about the way they sell their DVC timeshares. Resales sell for about 85-90% of developer prices and the small contracts can even sell for MORE than developer prices....go figure.
Perhaps the timeshare industry could learn a thing or two from Disney.
Perhaps the timeshare industry could learn a thing or two from Disney.
JLB
Banned
I have related to it many times before, but in SW FL where most of the resorts were developed before Mr. S and Mr. W even broke ground in Orlando and the developer there was doing $50 Million a year, when a million was something, most/many of the resorts there are quite stable.
With the fluff and hype long gone there is something approaching a natural market. The supply of resales is relatively close to the demand. In that area it actually may approach the market for cars and houses, with about the same number of buyers as sellers.
Needless to say, prices are much lower, generally, and reflect the differences in the product. A prime Snowbird resale week at South Seas or one of the nice HGVC resorts may be as high as $20K. At the mediocre resorts, $6-9. At the lesser resorts, a couple grand. Folks get out for the amount the got in typically, or a tad more.
Most/many resorts have their own resale operation, some with a resident agent. Actually, through word-of-mouth among the tight-knit owners, bulletins boards and newsletters, weeks no longer wanted flow smoothly from the last owner to the new owner.
When you stay at them you don't have to worry about marketing calling you every morning, maintenance surveys, and so forth. You just go and vacation with your vacation time. If you feel a need to buy something, you go to Ross's with the gals.
I've had this conversation with some in the industry, with sales people, with a couple of sales managers in the area, and with Inside Guy. It's hard to find someone willing to break the mold, but one sales manager said they were willing to listen to new ideas. I'm sure they get tired of the indigestion, the turnover, having to put everything back together all the time and only having the same likely suspects to draw from.
With the fluff and hype long gone there is something approaching a natural market. The supply of resales is relatively close to the demand. In that area it actually may approach the market for cars and houses, with about the same number of buyers as sellers.
Needless to say, prices are much lower, generally, and reflect the differences in the product. A prime Snowbird resale week at South Seas or one of the nice HGVC resorts may be as high as $20K. At the mediocre resorts, $6-9. At the lesser resorts, a couple grand. Folks get out for the amount the got in typically, or a tad more.
Most/many resorts have their own resale operation, some with a resident agent. Actually, through word-of-mouth among the tight-knit owners, bulletins boards and newsletters, weeks no longer wanted flow smoothly from the last owner to the new owner.
When you stay at them you don't have to worry about marketing calling you every morning, maintenance surveys, and so forth. You just go and vacation with your vacation time. If you feel a need to buy something, you go to Ross's with the gals.
I've had this conversation with some in the industry, with sales people, with a couple of sales managers in the area, and with Inside Guy. It's hard to find someone willing to break the mold, but one sales manager said they were willing to listen to new ideas. I'm sure they get tired of the indigestion, the turnover, having to put everything back together all the time and only having the same likely suspects to draw from.
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JLB
Banned
The last one got too long.
We had an older neighbor here who had quite a distinguished background from SOCAL, all the old Hollywood group, and here he sold timeshares for awhile. The day we first found out they owned timeshares and that he sold, we had a social gathering with them after going out on the boat.
Back at their house for cocktails, us guys were at the dining room table talking and the gals were over on the sofa talking, the way all the OFs do here--guys there/gals here.
When I said resale, my neighbor went ballistic, yelling and spewing spit. He yelled, "Who would ever want to get rid of them!!!???" So, that did not go well.
Move forward a couple of years and he was failing in health and we were the ones looking after him. He knew I was on the Internet timesharing every day, so he asked me to take care of their timeshares, get rid of them for him. I had them placed a couple of times, giving them away, but he put a quietus on the deal when he wanted something for the Spacebanked weeks.
In his final years, they just added anguish to his other problems. It took that awakening to come around.
Wouldn't it have been better if the folks who sold them to him would have helped him transfer them to someone else (because there were takers), and wouldn't it have been better for the resort to have someone paying the fees now? Wouldn't everyone have been better off?
Wouldn't the Internet, the vehicle most responsible for revealing the truth of timeshare pricing, be a great tool for solving the problem?
Oh yeah, we are still looking after his house, sorta.
We had an older neighbor here who had quite a distinguished background from SOCAL, all the old Hollywood group, and here he sold timeshares for awhile. The day we first found out they owned timeshares and that he sold, we had a social gathering with them after going out on the boat.
Back at their house for cocktails, us guys were at the dining room table talking and the gals were over on the sofa talking, the way all the OFs do here--guys there/gals here.
When I said resale, my neighbor went ballistic, yelling and spewing spit. He yelled, "Who would ever want to get rid of them!!!???" So, that did not go well.
Move forward a couple of years and he was failing in health and we were the ones looking after him. He knew I was on the Internet timesharing every day, so he asked me to take care of their timeshares, get rid of them for him. I had them placed a couple of times, giving them away, but he put a quietus on the deal when he wanted something for the Spacebanked weeks.
In his final years, they just added anguish to his other problems. It took that awakening to come around.
Wouldn't it have been better if the folks who sold them to him would have helped him transfer them to someone else (because there were takers), and wouldn't it have been better for the resort to have someone paying the fees now? Wouldn't everyone have been better off?
Wouldn't the Internet, the vehicle most responsible for revealing the truth of timeshare pricing, be a great tool for solving the problem?
Oh yeah, we are still looking after his house, sorta.
JLB
Banned
Again too long.
In Post 38, I mentioned talking to a sales manager here about new ideas. What I had in mind is running resales for them, in house. He invited me to put something together, but while I was thinking about I felt that big knot in my stomach starting to grow. You know, the knot I had when I was in direct sales.
I remember how much I hated chewng on those chalky tablets all the time and how much I hated Metamusil and Marlboros , so I did not follow through.
Recently I bought two weeks at that resort (and it is a top notch place) for $301 and $2.25 on eBay, from Orlando resellers who the previous owners probably paid to take the weeks from them.
There's gotta be a better way . . .
In Post 38, I mentioned talking to a sales manager here about new ideas. What I had in mind is running resales for them, in house. He invited me to put something together, but while I was thinking about I felt that big knot in my stomach starting to grow. You know, the knot I had when I was in direct sales.
I remember how much I hated chewng on those chalky tablets all the time and how much I hated Metamusil and Marlboros
, so I did not follow through.Recently I bought two weeks at that resort (and it is a top notch place) for $301 and $2.25 on eBay, from Orlando resellers who the previous owners probably paid to take the weeks from them.
There's gotta be a better way . . .
JLB
Banned
Last for now.
The failure of the industry to address the resale issue is what opened the door for resellers, and we all know how well that has gone! :hysterical:
The failure of the industry to address the resale issue is what opened the door for resellers, and we all know how well that has gone! :hysterical:
JLB
Banned
FCM4MILE
TUG Member
Vistana Blocks Orange County Deed Search
Thanks to TUG , I learned last fall about the Orange County, Florida title search that anyone can do from the internet. I am in the process of closing a deal on an e-bay purchase at Vistana and have been looking at the Orange County website to see when my deed goes through. Coincidently I am at Vistana on vacation this week using their new free wifi. For the 1st 3 days I was here I could not get on to the Orange County site deed search, I thought maybe their website was down. On Tuesday night I took my laptop with me to dinner and stopped at a local wifi hotspot to connect to the internet. I had no problem getting into the Orange County site from there. I come back to Vistana's wifi, can't get in again. They are blocking access to the URL for the deed search on the Orange County site ! This is almost a useless tactic, people who are smart enough to do their homework would probably to it before they got here.
:hysterical:
Thanks to TUG , I learned last fall about the Orange County, Florida title search that anyone can do from the internet. I am in the process of closing a deal on an e-bay purchase at Vistana and have been looking at the Orange County website to see when my deed goes through. Coincidently I am at Vistana on vacation this week using their new free wifi. For the 1st 3 days I was here I could not get on to the Orange County site deed search, I thought maybe their website was down. On Tuesday night I took my laptop with me to dinner and stopped at a local wifi hotspot to connect to the internet. I had no problem getting into the Orange County site from there. I come back to Vistana's wifi, can't get in again. They are blocking access to the URL for the deed search on the Orange County site ! This is almost a useless tactic, people who are smart enough to do their homework would probably to it before they got here.
:hysterical:
Bill4728
Moderator
What I can't figure out is not "Why do people pay these over inflated prices for the TS?" But "why don't the TS developer or even TS salesmen buy at these unbelievable low resale prices then continue to sell them to suckers at the inflated prices?"
We all agree that there is a significant cost to buying, building and developing a TS resort. That cost must be paid by the consummer. But if a developer could buy a week at their own resort for $0.01/dollar ( sold by developer for $10k, bought back for $100) Why aren't they doing that???
It seems that some of the developers can't even figure out to buy resale.
We all agree that there is a significant cost to buying, building and developing a TS resort. That cost must be paid by the consummer. But if a developer could buy a week at their own resort for $0.01/dollar ( sold by developer for $10k, bought back for $100) Why aren't they doing that???
It seems that some of the developers can't even figure out to buy resale.
JLB
Banned
Perhaps they have never heard of Buy Low Sell High. Perhaps they have only heard half of it . . . Sell High.
- - - - - -
Here's another of the industry's victims:
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66919
- - - - - -
As far as blaming the buyer, about the only thing you can blame them for is believing what they were told, and given the setting, where they are all seeing others also believing what they are being told, bells ringing with the announcement of proud new owners, it makes it very believable.
Step back, become detached, critical and analytical, and you can see how it is all just staged to appear that way, like the lots that Mr. S sold back in the 70's, where still today there are no roads into them. It was staged to appear that one day there would be.
- - - - - -
Here's another of the industry's victims:
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66919
- - - - - -
As far as blaming the buyer, about the only thing you can blame them for is believing what they were told, and given the setting, where they are all seeing others also believing what they are being told, bells ringing with the announcement of proud new owners, it makes it very believable.
Step back, become detached, critical and analytical, and you can see how it is all just staged to appear that way, like the lots that Mr. S sold back in the 70's, where still today there are no roads into them. It was staged to appear that one day there would be.
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[triennial - points]
That Would Be 1 Feature Of The New Timeshare Biz Plan.
However, buying timeshares super-low & reselling'm at a big mark-up that's still well below the full-freight developer price would surely be a feature of the much-needed new biz plan for the timeshare industry. Think of it as CarMax-style timeshare marketing.
I think they are too risk-shy to buy timeshares resale -- even for pennies on the dollar -- because of the chance they'd still be holding the bag when annual fee payment time rolls round & they might not have flipped'm yet.
However, buying timeshares super-low & reselling'm at a big mark-up that's still well below the full-freight developer price would surely be a feature of the much-needed new biz plan for the timeshare industry. Think of it as CarMax-style timeshare marketing.
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.
JLB
Banned
Why don't resorts/developers buy stuff cheap in the resale market and then resell it?
How about because if they did, they would be acknowledgeing that there is a resale problem, the problem I am highlighting in this thread, and they do not acknowledge that problem exists, they do not acknowledge that their price is way higher than the price would be in a natural marketplace?
So, they can't.
FWIW, when I have suggested to sales programs that they sell resales for owners, they say they can't because that would be a conflict, when, in reality, they can't because it would be an admission.
So, they just totally ignore resales, hoping it doesn't come up.
How about because if they did, they would be acknowledgeing that there is a resale problem, the problem I am highlighting in this thread, and they do not acknowledge that problem exists, they do not acknowledge that their price is way higher than the price would be in a natural marketplace?
So, they can't.
FWIW, when I have suggested to sales programs that they sell resales for owners, they say they can't because that would be a conflict, when, in reality, they can't because it would be an admission.
So, they just totally ignore resales, hoping it doesn't come up.
PerryM
TUG Member
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I see no problem whatsoever...
Why does anyone think that there is ANY problem with the way timeshares currently are sold – I sure don’t! I buy resale when it is appropriate and developer when it’s appropriate.
The developers seem to price the sales of a condo to FOUR times the cost to buy/build it. The resale market seems to price the sale of a timeshare at TWICE the appraised value of the condo.
Which one is correct?
The answer can be found by watching the consumer – the majority of consumers buy from the developer. All the sales gimmicks and fast talking salesreps simply bring in more and more happy consumers.
This is from ARDA:
“By all leisure indicators, timeshare has improved the vacation experience for owners. The vast majority of all owners (80.3 percent) express satisfaction with their timeshare purchase; 75.7 percent say owning a timeshare has increased their looking forward to vacations, and 68.4 percent say owning a timeshare has increased the amount of time on vacations. A full 66.4 percent of all owners say timeshare has increased their learning experiences, and 52.8 percent claim owning timeshare has increased their health and happiness.”
I hope no one here is impugning the timeshare owner who bought from the developer – they sure seem to be happy.
Here are more stats from ARDA:
“Vacation owners are savvy travelers who shop around: The average recent buyer attended 2.6 sales presentations before making a purchase. Of recent buyers, 57.4 percent purchased directly from a developer; 24.9 percent purchased from a home owners’ association; 10.5 percent acquired their timeshare as a gift, inheritance, or from some other source; and 7.2 percent purchased from a pervious owner.”
Sounds like the consumer is well versed with almost 3 sales presentations under their belt before they bought – those are ALL developer oriented.
Now here’s the curious ARDA stats:
“Of all owners, 35.8 percent personally used their own timeshare purchase during the past 12 months, while 47.4 percent exchanged or space banked it, 4.4 percent rented it out, and 2.9 percent gave it away. Only 9.5 percent of time owned by all owners went unused during the last 12 months.”
Timeshares have morphed from their original concept of an alternative to a second home into something much different – a way to buy membership into access to 3,500 timeshare resorts worldwide.
The prices the developer charges ALWAYS go up – do we have a recorded example of a major developer having a firesale and lowering their prices only to turn around and raise them? This is very important since this is the NOT the sign of a free market – one that responds to the ups and downs of the economy and current events.
That is the GREAT problem with timeshares – not developers gouging the consumer but a rigged market that we all willingly participate in and that will one day atone for.
Knowledge is far more important to the timeshare owner than the money spent. I don’t impugn folks for buying from the developer – someone has to. The consumer is extremely happy with their timeshare; developers keep selling more and more of them each year.
What we can talk about is the efficient use of money spent – that’s what this is all about; not whether Ma and Pa should be ridiculed for buying from the developer – they are very happy until we come along and impugn their decision.
The greatest enemy of the timeshares developer is the smart consumer. Will the internet have an impact – so far it has had NO impact on developer sales.
So do what I do and take advantage of all the wonderful free gifts that the developers hand out and make them an offer if you are so inclined – see if they will accept it or if you must walk away with a $200+ gift for your trouble.
Conclusion:
A little more than half the timeshare sales are from the developer -and those folks seem to be very happy in their purchase. I see no problem with how the timeshare industry works today.
Why does anyone think that there is ANY problem with the way timeshares currently are sold – I sure don’t! I buy resale when it is appropriate and developer when it’s appropriate.
The developers seem to price the sales of a condo to FOUR times the cost to buy/build it. The resale market seems to price the sale of a timeshare at TWICE the appraised value of the condo.
Which one is correct?
The answer can be found by watching the consumer – the majority of consumers buy from the developer. All the sales gimmicks and fast talking salesreps simply bring in more and more happy consumers.
This is from ARDA:
“By all leisure indicators, timeshare has improved the vacation experience for owners. The vast majority of all owners (80.3 percent) express satisfaction with their timeshare purchase; 75.7 percent say owning a timeshare has increased their looking forward to vacations, and 68.4 percent say owning a timeshare has increased the amount of time on vacations. A full 66.4 percent of all owners say timeshare has increased their learning experiences, and 52.8 percent claim owning timeshare has increased their health and happiness.”
I hope no one here is impugning the timeshare owner who bought from the developer – they sure seem to be happy.
Here are more stats from ARDA:
“Vacation owners are savvy travelers who shop around: The average recent buyer attended 2.6 sales presentations before making a purchase. Of recent buyers, 57.4 percent purchased directly from a developer; 24.9 percent purchased from a home owners’ association; 10.5 percent acquired their timeshare as a gift, inheritance, or from some other source; and 7.2 percent purchased from a pervious owner.”
Sounds like the consumer is well versed with almost 3 sales presentations under their belt before they bought – those are ALL developer oriented.
Now here’s the curious ARDA stats:
“Of all owners, 35.8 percent personally used their own timeshare purchase during the past 12 months, while 47.4 percent exchanged or space banked it, 4.4 percent rented it out, and 2.9 percent gave it away. Only 9.5 percent of time owned by all owners went unused during the last 12 months.”
Timeshares have morphed from their original concept of an alternative to a second home into something much different – a way to buy membership into access to 3,500 timeshare resorts worldwide.
The prices the developer charges ALWAYS go up – do we have a recorded example of a major developer having a firesale and lowering their prices only to turn around and raise them? This is very important since this is the NOT the sign of a free market – one that responds to the ups and downs of the economy and current events.
That is the GREAT problem with timeshares – not developers gouging the consumer but a rigged market that we all willingly participate in and that will one day atone for.
Knowledge is far more important to the timeshare owner than the money spent. I don’t impugn folks for buying from the developer – someone has to. The consumer is extremely happy with their timeshare; developers keep selling more and more of them each year.
What we can talk about is the efficient use of money spent – that’s what this is all about; not whether Ma and Pa should be ridiculed for buying from the developer – they are very happy until we come along and impugn their decision.
The greatest enemy of the timeshares developer is the smart consumer. Will the internet have an impact – so far it has had NO impact on developer sales.
So do what I do and take advantage of all the wonderful free gifts that the developers hand out and make them an offer if you are so inclined – see if they will accept it or if you must walk away with a $200+ gift for your trouble.
Conclusion:
A little more than half the timeshare sales are from the developer -and those folks seem to be very happy in their purchase. I see no problem with how the timeshare industry works today.
JMAESD84
TUG Member
Statistics are a great tool. One characteristic true for most people who produce them is they end up saying what you want to hear.
Timeshares are wonderful as long as you use them, I'm not surprised by the numbers. "(80.3%) of all owners express satisfaction with their timeshare purchase", I wonder how long after the purchase this poll was taken and how many of these owners had sold or attempted to sell what they own. In the process coming to realize what the true value is.
Without the raw data I'll bet that this statistic is not far off. "(97.0%) of all owners express "great satisfaction" with their eBay timeshare purchase"
"Recent buyers" this is telling as we've now taken a perferred slice of the raw data. Does $1 eBay fall under HOA, gift or previous owner? Maybe all of the above. Also, wouldn't it be telling to put average price paid beside each of those stats.
I'm probably far off but let me guess at those statistics
57.4 % Developer - $18,100.
24.9% HOA - $3800.
10.5% other - $181.
7.2% Resale - $2800.
I can't resist and 32% was rented out by RCI:hysterical:
"Knowledge is far more important to the timeshare owner than the money spent."
Is that part of the "new developer pitch" ....someday you'll realize the lesson learned today.
Or they learn of the true value by trying to sell without ever finding us.
I try not to treat the developer as my enemy, because in the final point you make below we benefit in the end. I agree that a public educated on the ways and the values on the timeshare industry, leaves very few consumers for timeshares sold at developer prices.
What you said brother.:whoopie:
PerryM
TUG Member
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Timeshare owners are VERY happy - even developer bought ones
TUG and most/all chat rooms are rumor driven – not a single shred of evidence is needed except the spread of worries. Who can’t resist turning their heads while you pass a major smashup on the highway? We love to hear doom and gloom.
Unless someone else has betters stats I’ll go with ARDA. Timeshare owners are VERY HAPPY!
It amazes me that so many here are hell bent on spreading doom and gloom to a population of folks who are finding great value in their timeshares! I know of one web site that is dedicated to bashing the developer 24/7/365 - I guess it's a lot of fun.
But to each his/her own.
P.S.
A word about resale prices. If the developer has a ROFR program you stand a better chance of higher resale rates than a developer who doesn’t want to get involved in resales.
Disney, Marriott, Westgate, Starwood are examples of developers who have a ROFR. Wyndham and WorldMark are developers who don’t have a ROFR program and whose resale prices pale against developer timeshares with a ROFR program.
If your developer has a ROFR program you should pat them on the back when it’s time to sell.
The ROFR is another rumor driven topic that generally is held in disrepute when it should be hailed.
TUG and most/all chat rooms are rumor driven – not a single shred of evidence is needed except the spread of worries. Who can’t resist turning their heads while you pass a major smashup on the highway? We love to hear doom and gloom.
Unless someone else has betters stats I’ll go with ARDA. Timeshare owners are VERY HAPPY!
It amazes me that so many here are hell bent on spreading doom and gloom to a population of folks who are finding great value in their timeshares! I know of one web site that is dedicated to bashing the developer 24/7/365 - I guess it's a lot of fun.
But to each his/her own.
P.S.
A word about resale prices. If the developer has a ROFR program you stand a better chance of higher resale rates than a developer who doesn’t want to get involved in resales.
Disney, Marriott, Westgate, Starwood are examples of developers who have a ROFR. Wyndham and WorldMark are developers who don’t have a ROFR program and whose resale prices pale against developer timeshares with a ROFR program.
If your developer has a ROFR program you should pat them on the back when it’s time to sell.
The ROFR is another rumor driven topic that generally is held in disrepute when it should be hailed.
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