The Atlantis, Bahamas....

[FractionalTraveler]

We have been to Atlantis many times with the kids over the years and have a lot of experience with this property and the Bahamas in general.

My prediction is that it will be a MR CAT 9 property requiring a boatload of MR or DC points for usage based solely on the property's uniqueness, location, and size but not overall QUALITY.

I also predict many who jump on the boatload of points initially will not be terribly happy with their investment when they return from holiday. I would not expect free anything including Wifi, upgrades, or any other MR Elite benefits. Hopefully, I'm wrong about this.

If I were to trade-in those boatload of points, I would have to seriously consider waiting a year or two until they perform some much need upgrades and refurbishment to the property using the $100MM high interest loan provided from Marriott.

Seriously, TODAY the property provides nowhere near the quality of service or amenities that Marriott Rewards, Elites, and MVCI owners have come to expect.

Regrettably, the property has been going downhill for years. Its still a very unique place and our kids still love the water attractions and the diversity of options available for staying busy but you can definitely see the affects of years of mismanagement, delayed investment and maintenance. The last recession just placed an additional burden on the property unfortunately.

There are many parts of the property in need of repair or replacement. The rooms today in the Coral, Beach, and Royal Towers would not meet Marriott standards of quality and cleanliness. These rooms account to about 75% of the total for the property.

Since Marriott will not be managing the resort, I'm not sure what changes will be made to the overall customer experience other than much needed repairs to the facility. We will have to wait and see how it all unfolds.

Recently in the last 2 years before the Marriott announcement, they have been heavily discounting the rooms with travel allowances and experience perks. This has been an effort to win back much of the customers it has lost because of the poor quality of experience. Also, the timing of the Marriott announcement was planned very well since the new Baha Mar project opening this December will certainly further erode their once dominant position in the Bahamas for leisure and group travel.

Overall I think its a great marketing agreement for Marriott as they will make a killing on the high interest loan and it will be a great new usage option for MR and MVCI owners, guests, and members alike.

I would just caution the expectation of folks trading in those lifetime account balances for a potential sub-par overall experience when reservations start sometime in the fall.

FT

 

[GreenTea]

I agree with the condition expressed above. I went about 18 months ago and actually didn't like it as much as other places I've been. I thought I might be the only one. The staff was rude, pool areas dirty and just overall not a great visit.

BUT if they had MVC villas there I gel sure I would visit again. Just not to the hotel. The villas would allow a lot more freedom to sort of do our own things. Less of a captive audience.

 

[vacationlover2]

Agree with the above posters as well. We had a lot of fun but were glad we were staying at the Harborside and not the hotel. Harborside is awesome. The hotel, not so much.

 

[Wally3433]

Why does this wildly successful hotel still have $2 billion in debt?

 

[DeniseM]

Why does this wildly successful hotel still have $2 billion in debt?

It's not wildly successful - they have problems filling it up.

 

[twinmommy19]

My prediction is that it will be a MR CAT 9 property requiring a boatload of MR or DC points for usage based solely on the property's uniqueness, location, and size but not overall QUALITY.

I also predict many who jump on the boatload of points initially will not be terribly happy with their investment when they return from holiday. I would not expect free anything including Wifi, upgrades, or any other MR Elite benefits. Hopefully, I'm wrong about this.

I agree on the free stuff and elite benefits. Won't be much there.

Regarding the reward category, I'd be very surprised if the Beach Tower and Coral Towers are category 9 or even category 8. According to Hyatt's website, the brand new Grand Hyatt Baha Mar opening in December is going to be a category 4 (meaning it will even be eligible for redemption using a credit card anniversary night). Hyatt has always been more generous with their points redemption program and I seriously doubt Marriott credit card holders will be able to use anniversary nights to redeem Atlantis (i.e. category 5 or lower). Still - Category 6 or 7 seems about right to me for the cheaper towers, not 8 or 9...

 

[dioxide45]

I agree on the free stuff and elite benefits. Won't be much there.

Regarding the reward category, I'd be very surprised if the Beach Tower and Coral Towers are category 9 or even category 8. According to Hyatt's website, the brand new Grand Hyatt Baha Mar opening in December is going to be a category 4 (meaning it will even be eligible for redemption using a credit card anniversary night). Hyatt has always been more generous with their points redemption program and I seriously doubt Marriott credit card holders will be able to use anniversary nights to redeem Atlantis (i.e. category 5 or lower). Still - Category 6 or 7 seems about right to me for the cheaper towers, not 8 or 9...

However, Marriott has always indicated that MR categories were always set based on redemption. This is often why we see downtown metropolitan Courtyards and Fairfield Inns with such high categories even though the amenities don't support it. With only one Marriott property now in the Bahamas, I would expect redemption of MR points in to Atlantis to be pretty high for it.

 

[twinmommy19]

However, Marriott has always indicated that MR categories were always set based on redemption. This is often why we see downtown metropolitan Courtyards and Fairfield Inns with such high categories even though the amenities don't support it. With only one Marriott property now in the Bahamas, I would expect redemption of MR points in to Atlantis to be pretty high for it.

That's true, but Atlantis is very different. We're not talking about a metropolitan city where people can use their points to book a short 1 or 2 night stay over the weekend. We're also not talking about a place people can use points to take a cheapo vacation - you can't drive a family there (metropolitan cities are drivable at least for a portion of the population) and there isn't really much of a selection of cheap places to eat. So anyone going, has to find a way to feed their family and it's almost guaranteed that a considerable portion of meals will be purchased at Atlantis (there just aren't many options otherwise). With US metropolitan locations, it's almost a guarantee that guest will not spend much money if any on Marriott premises.

The press releases seemed to hint at Marriott Rewards usage being a huge driving factor for this partnership... In order for that angle to be maximized, they need people to actually be able to use their points there for a full vacation. IMO redemption rates will not be in the Beach Towers or Coral Towers unless they make it reasonably possible for middle American families to save up for 4 free nights plus the bonus 5th night. Atlantis is too expensive a trip otherwise, even putting the hotel stay aside.

 

[SueDonJ]

"communitymanager" - an official Marriott participant - posted this today on Marriott Rewards Insiders:

Is Atlantis participating in Marriott Rewards®? Yes, for new reservations booked beginning on October 16, 2014, members will be able to earn points, miles and Elite nights, enjoy Elite benefits and redeem points for free night stays. Please note that The Reef, Atlantis is participating for earning points, miles, and Elite nights only; redemption award stays will not be available at The Reef, Atlantis.

How do I book a stay at Atlantis? Please visit www.marriott.com/atlantis or call 1-877-829-2429 to learn more. Booking through these channels will also ensure that your stay will be eligible for earning and that Elite level benefits may be received. Booking outside of these channels may result in a reservation that is not eligible to earn Rewards Points / Miles and may not receive Elite Benefits.

How many points will I earn for my stays at the Atlantis resort? For stays booked starting October 16, 2014, members will earn 10 points per US dollar on room rate only.

When can I redeem my points for a complimentary stay at Atlantis? Members can redeem points for free stays at 4 of the towers starting on October 16, 2014. These include: Atlantis, Beach Tower, Atlantis, Coral Towers, Atlantis, Royal Towers and The Cove. However, please note that redeeming points for a complimentary stay will not be possible at The Reef, Atlantis.

What Rewards category will the resort be? The Atlantis is made up of 4 towers that will participate for redemption stays. They are as follows:
[Category 7 - 35,000 Points Per Night - Atlantis, Beach Tower and Atlantis, Coral Towers
Category 8 - 40,000 Points Per Night - Atlantis, Royal Towers
Category 9 - 45,000 Points Per Night - The Cove Atlantis]

Will I be awarded points, miles or Elite nights if I made reservations made prior October 16, 2014? No. Regardless of check-in date, Members who made their reservations before October 16, 2012 will not earn points, miles, or nights for their stays.

If a member arrives prior to October 16, 2014 and stays through the “live date” will they earn points, miles or Elite night credit? (i.e. arrival on 10/14 with a departure on 10/20) No. Members who made their reservations before October 16, 2014 will not earn points, miles, Elite benefits or night credits for their stays.

What Elite benefits will I receive at Atlantis? Marriott Rewards Elite Members who book a stay will receive benefits by level when staying at Atlantis. Please note in our Elite Member Terms & Conditions: A valid member number is required at the time of reservation in order to receive Elite benefits. While we will do everything we can to deliver upon Elite Benefits at all times, certain Elite benefits may not apply.

As an Elite member, will I receive Elite nights for my stays prior to Atlantis joining the program on October 16, 2014? No. Elite members with reservations booked or stays concluding prior to October 16, 2014, will not receive Elite night credits.

Do members of The Ritz-Carlton Rewards also earn points, miles, Elite nights and Elite benefits? Yes. For stays booked starting on October 16, 2014, as the exclusive luxury partner of Marriott Rewards, members of The Ritz-Carlton Rewards can also earn and redeem points, and receive the published Elite benefits at Autograph Collection Hotels.

As a miles-earning member, will I be able to earn miles with all current airline partners when Atlantis joins the Autograph Collection? Yes. For stays booked starting October 16, 2014, members will earn 2 airline miles per US dollar on room rate only.

Is Marriott Vacation Club taking over the timeshares on the Atlantis property? At this time, no, Harborside Resort will not become a Marriott Vacation Club property.

I have questions that aren’t answered here. Where can I go for more information? Please contact Customer Support.

 

[dioxide45]

Is Marriott Vacation Club taking over the timeshares on the Atlantis property? At this time, no, Harborside Resort will not become a Marriott Vacation Club property

Not at this time? Interesting response.

 

[SueDonJ]

Not at this time? Interesting response.

That's exactly what I thought (and what I posted in the thread on the Starwood board!)

 

[Mr. Vker]

You can find Atlantis by looking up Beach properties and Bahamas. Each section is its own property and own MR category.

 

[kds4]

"communitymanager" - an official Marriott participant - posted this today on Marriott Rewards Insiders:

At least there are 2 'cheap' Category 7 properties ...

 

[kds4]

"What Elite benefits will I receive at Atlantis? Marriott Rewards Elite Members who book a stay will receive benefits by level when staying at Atlantis. Please note in our Elite Member Terms & Conditions: A valid member number is required at the time of reservation in order to receive Elite benefits. While we will do everything we can to deliver upon Elite Benefits at all times, certain Elite benefits may not apply."

Hmm. Wonder which ones may not apply. The biggie for Gold and Platinum level MR members, in my opinion, would be the concierge lounge benefit. If they don't offer that, there really is no 'tangible' elite benefit during one's stay.

 

[Werner Weiss]

Hmm. Wonder which ones may not apply. The biggie for Gold and Platinum level MR members, in my opinion, would be the concierge lounge benefit. If they don't offer that, there really is no 'tangible' elite benefit during one's stay.

Resorts are exempt from Marriott's published lounge/breakfast benefit for Gold and Platinum level Rewards members.

 

[kds4]

Resorts are exempt from Marriott's published lounge/breakfast benefit for Gold and Platinum level Rewards members.

Good point. The next question I suppose will be whether all 5 of the 'hotels' comprising the Atlantis complex are considered 'resorts' by Marriott.

 

[Mr. Vker]

Still can't book paid stays through Marriott-website or phone. They can book award stays. For paid, they transfer you to Atlantis reservations. They cannot attach your MR number yet. Still a major disconnect.

 

[Werner Weiss]

Good point. The next question I suppose will be whether all 5 of the 'hotels' comprising the Atlantis complex are considered 'resorts' by Marriott.

Currently (10/16/2014 5:51PM CDT) coded as a resort on Marriott.com:

• Atlantis, Beach Tower, Autograph Collection
• Atlantis, Coral Towers, Autograph Collection
• The Cove Atlantis, Autograph Collection
• The Reef Atlantis, Autograph Collection

Currently (10/16/2014 5:51PM CDT) NOT coded as a resort on Marriott.com:

• Atlantis, Royal Towers, Autograph Collection

I think it's safe to say that the current non-resort status of Royal Towers is a mistake.

And it actually makes sense for all components of this mega-resort to be considered resorts.

 

[kds4]

Still can't book paid stays through Marriott-website or phone. They can book award stays. For paid, they transfer you to Atlantis reservations. They cannot attach your MR number yet. Still a major disconnect.

Agreed. I just spoke to the Autograph reservation line and when I asked about MR Elite benefits, was told in no uncertain terms that there are NONE (other than to earn points on paid stays). When I pointed out that Marriott had publicly posted that Elite benefits would be offered (although certain ones may not be available); the answer became a qualified "there are no Elite benefits, as of now."

I was told that among the 4 participating hotels at Atlantis, accommodations ranged from hotel rooms up to 2BR units. Not sure how redemptions for larger units is going to work.

I asked about Travel Packages and what kind of accommodation that would result in - Hotel Room versus a 1 or 2 BR unit. I think I actually heard the puzzled expression come through the phone. :rofl:

Oh well, it is only day 1. What I am taking away from the call is that it is way too early to consider actually doing any MR bookings at Atlantis. Even the representative said they are handling their joining with Marriott 'incrementally' with MR being the first 'department' they were tackling. Then she said there are about 15 'departments' to be addressed.

So, take your time planning your MR visit to Atlantis. Seems there are yet many questions/issues to resolve.

 

[Werner Weiss]

Marriott's published rules and benefits for The Autograph Collection should apply to all properties of that brand.

The whole idea behind The Autograph Collection is that is brings together the individuality of distinctly different high-end hotels and resorts with the guest loyalty and marketing of Marriott International.

If hotel or resort does not agree to comply with the brand standards, then it should not be allowed to be part of The Autograph Collection.

Considering that resorts don't have to provide the lounge/breakfast benefit for Gold and Platinum members, it should not be that hard to comply with the remaining Elite benefits (such as the Platinum Welcome gift, upgrades if available, and the Ultimate Reservation Guarantee).

I would hope this is just a training and execution matter. And I would hope that Marriott will expect all properties of The Autograph Collection to follow the brand standards. Otherwise the whole brand (including the hotels that take excellent care of Marriott Rewards elite members) will suffer.

 

[kds4]

Marriott's published rules and benefits for The Autograph Collection should apply to all properties of that brand.

The whole idea behind The Autograph Collection is that is brings together the individuality of distinctly different high-end hotels and resorts with the frequent guest benefits and marketing of Marriott International.

If hotel or resort does not agree to comply with the brand standards, then it should not be allowed to be part of The Autograph Collection.

Considering that resorts don't have to provide the lounge/breakfast benefit for Gold Platinum members, it should not be that hard to comply with the remaining Elite benefits (such as the Platinum Welcome gift, upgrades if available, and the Ultimate Reservation Guarantee).

I would hope this is just a training and execution matter. And I would hope that Marriott will expect all properties of The Autograph Collection to follow the brand standards. Otherwise the whole brand (including the hotels that take excellent care of Marriotts Rewards elite members) will suffer.

Definitely agree.

 

[Mr. Vker]

We have stayed at a couple of Autograph hotels with great satisfaction. Excellent MR plat benefits. I am hoping Atlantis is brought into the family the same way.

 

[dioxide45]

Agreed. I just spoke to the Autograph reservation line and when I asked about MR Elite benefits, was told in no uncertain terms that there are NONE (other than to earn points on paid stays). When I pointed out that Marriott had publicly posted that Elite benefits would be offered (although certain ones may not be available); the answer became a qualified "there are no Elite benefits, as of now."

I was told that among the 4 participating hotels at Atlantis, accommodations ranged from hotel rooms up to 2BR units. Not sure how redemptions for larger units is going to work.

I asked about Travel Packages and what kind of accommodation that would result in - Hotel Room versus a 1 or 2 BR unit. I think I actually heard the puzzled expression come through the phone. :rofl:

Wouldn't it just be the standard upgrade certificate of 5,000 points per level. A travel cert would get you a studio/hotel unit. A 1BR would cosdt 5,000 per night upgrade certificate. Want to bump up in view too, another 5,000 per night. I don't see it working any differently than any other hotel or Marriott timeshare.

Oh well, it is only day 1. What I am taking away from the call is that it is way too early to consider actually doing any MR bookings at Atlantis. Even the representative said they are handling their joining with Marriott 'incrementally' with MR being the first 'department' they were tackling. Then she said there are about 15 'departments' to be addressed.

So, take your time planning your MR visit to Atlantis. Seems there are yet many questions/issues to resolve.

 

[EducatedConsumer]

We have been to Atlantis many times with the kids over the years and have a lot of experience with this property and the Bahamas in general.

My prediction is that it will be a MR CAT 9 property requiring a boatload of MR or DC points for usage based solely on the property's uniqueness, location, and size but not overall QUALITY.

I also predict many who jump on the boatload of points initially will not be terribly happy with their investment when they return from holiday. I would not expect free anything including Wifi, upgrades, or any other MR Elite benefits. Hopefully, I'm wrong about this.

If I were to trade-in those boatload of points, I would have to seriously consider waiting a year or two until they perform some much need upgrades and refurbishment to the property using the $100MM high interest loan provided from Marriott.

Seriously, TODAY the property provides nowhere near the quality of service or amenities that Marriott Rewards, Elites, and MVCI owners have come to expect.

Regrettably, the property has been going downhill for years. Its still a very unique place and our kids still love the water attractions and the diversity of options available for staying busy but you can definitely see the affects of years of mismanagement, delayed investment and maintenance. The last recession just placed an additional burden on the property unfortunately.

There are many parts of the property in need of repair or replacement. The rooms today in the Coral, Beach, and Royal Towers would not meet Marriott standards of quality and cleanliness. These rooms account to about 75% of the total for the property.

Since Marriott will not be managing the resort, I'm not sure what changes will be made to the overall customer experience other than much needed repairs to the facility. We will have to wait and see how it all unfolds.

Recently in the last 2 years before the Marriott announcement, they have been heavily discounting the rooms with travel allowances and experience perks. This has been an effort to win back much of the customers it has lost because of the poor quality of experience. Also, the timing of the Marriott announcement was planned very well since the new Baha Mar project opening this December will certainly further erode their once dominant position in the Bahamas for leisure and group travel.

Overall I think its a great marketing agreement for Marriott as they will make a killing on the high interest loan and it will be a great new usage option for MR and MVCI owners, guests, and members alike.

I would just caution the expectation of folks trading in those lifetime account balances for a potential sub-par overall experience when reservations start sometime in the fall.

FT

Our last visit to the Atlantis - - great weather, friendly people, pretty good service, typical resort price gauge for food - - the rooms and many common areas of the hotel and resort were dilapidated. The Atlantis reminded me of the last five years of the (old) Fountainbleu Hotel in Miami Beach, before it was imploded (one step above the Concord and Kutshers in the Catskills).

 

[ilene13]

I would only stay at the Cove or the Reef. The Beach and Coral Towers were built pre-Atlantis and they have always been subpar. The Royal Tower was built about 15 years ago--- I do not know if it has been kept up. I took my husband there for his 50th birthday and it was new. We stayed at the Cove in 2008 and we toured the Reef then also. They were very nice. But again have they been maintained. In 2008 Harbourside was shabby. I think it has been refurbished.