Svn Membership question

[kadair]

Hello all,

I just recently visited the Westin Ocean Villas while on vacation in Maui and I am thinking of purchasing on the resale market . I wanted to get some clarification regarding the SVN membership. I am aware this is a mandatory property which would allow me access to trade within the svn network to the other Westin Villas using star options. Am I correct that if you are trading within II and you are an SVN member when you deposit your week into II, starwood doesn't neccessarily deposit the type of week that you own for trade? If I am correct is there anyway to be a part of the svn network so you get the ability to trade within the network but at the same time be able to deposit with II and have the trade power of depositng your home resort? I hope that makes sense.

When I was at the resort the sales person said that hardly anyone trades within II because with so many people it is hard to get what you want. I have been to many a presentation and that was the first time I heard that line. They seemed to be pushing the star points for hotel stays which again floored me because the reason I want to own a villa is because I want the ammenities that you don't get with staying in a hotel room. Well, I guess they need to do somethng to get you to buy directly from them.

Any info on the above question or comments would be great. Thanks.


Keith

 

[vacationtime1]

Am I correct that if you are trading within II and you are an SVN member when you deposit your week into II, starwood doesn't neccessarily deposit the type of week that you own for trade? If I am correct is there anyway to be a part of the svn network so you get the ability to trade within the network but at the same time be able to deposit with II and have the trade power of depositng your home resort? I hope that makes sense.

I think you understand the II/SVN conundrum clearly. If you own a mandatory property, that property is in SVN and your II trading power suffers. It is part of the SVN contract. But trades within SVN are fairly simple.

II works if you are patient and play the game well. Stick around on this board and you will learn how to leverage your II trades effectively.

The answer is to be an addict -- like me. Own an SVN mandatory property (purchased resale) as well as other (cheaper resale) units that trade well in II. You will end up with two II memberships (the SVN-related one is free). You will never use your SVN property to trade in II, but you will use your non-SVN property to make great trades.

 

[Troopers]

I wouldn't purchase at WKORV (Westin Kaanapali Ocean Resort Villas) with the intent to trade because you'll probably trade down. WKORV is a nicer more $ timeshare. I think you'll better be off renting your week and using that money to rent elsewhere.

Personally, I suggest you buy where you want to go or rent it. I'm not interested in SVN/II trading...there's too many questions, complaints, issues, unnecessary stress, etc. that come with trading. However, it does work for others.

Good luck.

 

[Fcast]

I think you understand the II/SVN conundrum clearly. If you own a mandatory property, that property is in SVN and your II trading power suffers. It is part of the SVN contract. But trades within SVN are fairly simple.

II works if you are patient and play the game well. Stick around on this board and you will learn how to leverage your II trades effectively.

The answer is to be an addict -- like me. Own an SVN mandatory property (purchased resale) as well as other (cheaper resale) units that trade well in II. You will end up with two II memberships (the SVN-related one is free). You will never use your SVN property to trade in II, but you will use your non-SVN property to make great trades.

Do you have examples of "cheaper resale" units that trade well in II?

 

[WalnutBaron]

Do you have examples of "cheaper resale" units that trade well in II?

Sheraton Desert Oasis in Palm Springs would be a good example.

 

[DeniseM]

I agree with the posters above, with MF's nearly $2,000 for a 2 bdm., WKORV is too expensive to trade.

Here are the mandatory resorts, MF's, and Staroptions:

*I am updating with 2009 MF's as they are posted.

Maintenance fees for standard 2 bdm. lock-off Mandatory resorts 2008/2009

Harborside Atlantis $2,433 - Staroptions - 148,100 (from Sept. 2008 Price list)

WKORV-N $1,975.30 - Staroptions - 148,100 (actual 2009 MF including SVN)

WKORV: $1,898.60 - Staroptions - 148,100 (actual 2009 MF including SVN)

WSJ: Hillside $1,631 - Staroptions - 148,100 (from 2008)

SVV: Key West $1,321 - Staroptions - 95,700 (from Sept. 2008 price list)

WKV: $1,252,76 - Staroptions - 148,100 (actual 2009 MF including SVN)

SVV: Bella $1,232.00 - Staroptions - 95,700 (from Sept. 2008 price list)


See Sept. 2008 Developer Price Lists for more info.

 

[DeniseM]

Do you have examples of "cheaper resale" units that trade well in II?

ALL Starwood resorts have a 3 day priority in II for other Starwood resorts, making even the inexpensive voluntary resorts good traders. For all the details, see the Exchanging Starwood Resorts with II Article, in Owner Resources, at the top of the page.

When I was at the resort the sales person said that hardly anyone trades within II because with so many people it is hard to get what you want.

True, and I would never deposit my WKORV week, but Starwood does bulk space banking and seems to deposit a lot of extra off-season inventory with II, creating a good opportunity to exchange into the top resorts with an inexpensive voluntary resort.

 

[vacationtime1]

Sheraton Desert Oasis in Palm Springs would be a good example.

Actually, SDO is in Scottsdale, Arizona, but it is a good example of an inexpensive property that trades well. Sheraton Broadway Plantation (Myrtle Beach, SC) is another. If you purchase the latter for trading, make sure you buy a platinum week.

In both cases, it is important to reserve a "good" week to deposit in II (March is best at SDO; summer is best at SBP). And then be prepared to fight with Starwood about depositing your chosen week rather than a week they want to deposit for you. There are several threads on this subject; ultimately, you will win this "negotiation" with them if you persevere.

I agree with the others that WRORV is for using or renting, not for trading.

 

[James1975NY]

Being able to deposit an actual week with WKOR is not impossible but the fact is that there will be fewer of these weeks deposited into the Interval "bank" for owners to trade with.

Absolutely true that WKOR owners typically go to their resort; however, there are owners that do trade.

Starwood uses a "bulk" deposit system wherer they pre-cede inventory with II that will ultimately get transferred from Starwood's account to yours when you ask to deposit your week. They WILL cede WKOR inventory with II because they also realize that other Starwood owners will want to exchange to this resort when they do not have enough StarOptions to use internally. If you want to trade your WKOR week through II (with an actual WKOR week), you will want to request this to happen early before the limited amount is already consumed by other exchangers.

There are other exchange programs as well such at the San Francisco exchange company (which is becoming more and more popular) where you can simply make a reservation as if you are using the week itself and exchange with SFX. Unless the program has changed, I understand that you will provide SFX with your reservation number, dates, view etc. when you use their program (look into this before committing).

None the less, if you plan to go to WKOR 3-4 out of every 5 years for some time, I would consider it reasonable to focus on owning at this resort. If you are extremely flexible and you are not concerned with planning around kids vacations, I would recommend looking into Westin Kierland for 148,100 StarOptions and using them at 8 months in advance to go to Hawaii. You will get the best price for the StarOptions and maintenance fees.

 

[DeniseM]

There are other exchange programs as well such at the San Francisco exchange company (which is becoming more and more popular) where you can simply make a reservation as if you are using the week itself and exchange with SFX. Unless the program has changed, I understand that you will provide SFX with your reservation number, dates, view etc. when you use their program (look into this before committing).

I actually did deposit my WKORV week with SFX once, and I was very disappointed. I split my 2 bdm. and deposited it as two weeks. I deposited it 12 mos. out and put in my request 12 mos. out. All I asked for was 2 consecutive weeks on Kauai - any resort, it even could be 2 different resorts, and SFX couldn't fill my request. I ended up only getting one week from them and I had to rent the 2nd week on Kauai. I essentially lost the other week I deposited with them, because we didn't have the vacation time for another exchange.

Since Kauai has more timeshares than any other island, and we would have accepted anything, and I deposited and requested 12 mos. out, I really felt that SFX dropped the ball! Never again!

 

[WalnutBaron]

Since Kauai has more timeshares than any other island

Based on the reviews on the TUG Resort Ratings, this is the number of timeshares on each of the major Hawaiian islands:

Maui 40
Kauai 33
Hawaii 23
Oahu 20

And thanks, Denise, for the info on SFX. If I ever buy a "trader", I will stay away!

 

[DeniseM]

I think I got my number from a travel guide, but I don't remember which one. I could certainly be wrong. Anyway, I couldn't believe I gave them my expensive week and they didn't come through!

 

[Fredm]

I think I got my number from a travel guide, but I don't remember which one. I could certainly be wrong. Anyway, I couldn't believe I gave them my expensive week and they didn't come through!

SFX has a good track record. Hard to imagine they could not make that trade.
But, yours is the trade that matters.

 

[LisaRex]

Welcome to Tug, Keith.

I love WKORV. It's a beautiful resort. And if you plan to return to Maui a lot, it is nice not to have to search around for rentals and hope that it's a nice place, etc. I bought at WKORV-N 2 years ago with the intention of traveling to Hawaii most years, enjoying my 2 bdrm villa with family and friends, and then trading to Aruba or St. John every 3rd or 4th year. And I'll continue to enjoy my TS because I have no choice: I can't sell now or I'd lose buckets of money.

But if I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't buy at WKORV at all. I wouldn't even own a Starwood. Why?

1) In the 2 years that I've owned, MFs have increased over 10% each year. They are now nearly $2000/year. $300/night in MFs hardly meets the definition of a "pre-paid" vacation, esp if you travel during low season.

2) The SVN network is very limited and no new developments are on the horizon, with the exception of a few in locations where they already have a presence.

3) When you buy at the top of the heap (WSJ/Harborside/Hawaii), a lot of SVN trades are "down." In other words, we're paying $300/night in MFs. Do we want to trade into a resort that we could rent outright for $250/night?

4) WKORV Owners have to foot the bill to upkeep a very in-demand property, but we're not given any money to offset the wear and tear from the folks who rent from Starwood. Starwood has written the agreement so that they get control of all unused inventory at 90 days out. They then get to pocket 100% of all rental income, with the possible exception of a small housekeeping fee.

5) Hawaii owners are at the mercy of fuel/airfare prices. Last year coach RT prices were over $1000. Yikes.

6) Having to book so far in advance (12 months out if I want the best view), it really limits my ability to get great deals on airfare and secure award seats.

7) I'm grown very disenchanted with Starwood management. Ideally we should be treated as partners. Suffice it to say that I don't feel like a partner. Nor do I feel valued or appreciated. Their reservation system is outdated. Their communication is crappy. They won't even divulge the name of our own HOA members so that we can ask them questions. I wouldn't trust them to manage my doghouse.

Honestly, if I were to do it again, unless I could negotiate a fabulous purchase price (as in close to $0), I'd probably just stick to renting from private owners via VRBO or Tug. Given that MFs are just a few years away from being on par with rental prices, before long we Owners won't even be able to give away the villas that we paid thousands of dollars for.

Paying a huge purchase price for the right to book a villa for $300+/night (with annual increases on the horizon) just doesn't make sense anymore.

 

[DeniseM]

SFX has a good track record. Hard to imagine they could not make that trade.
But, yours is the trade that matters.

I couldn't believe it either, Fred. And here is what really p****d me off. After I posted about them dropping the ball on TUG, they immediately called me and asked if they could still help me find an exchange. So, because they got bad publicity on TUG, all of the sudden, they had a week for me, but until then....nothing.... At that point I'd already paid for a rental. :annoyed:

 

[DeniseM]

But if I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't buy at WKORV at all. I wouldn't even own a Starwood.

I agree with Lisa 100%, with one addition. If I had it to do over, I'd only buy low-cost, low-maintenance fee weeks like SDO and use them to exchange into Starwood via II. That's still a fantastic bargain. However, it only works if you can travel off-season. Just this morning, Starwood did a huge space banking of Hawaii weeks with II!

 

[Troopers]

But if I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't buy at WKORV at all. I wouldn't even own a Starwood. Why?

1) In the 2 years that I've owned, MFs have increased over 10% each year. They are now nearly $2000/year. $300/night in MFs hardly meets the definition of a "pre-paid" vacation, esp if you travel during low season.

2) The SVN network is very limited and no new developments are on the horizon, with the exception of a few in locations where they already have a presence.

3) When you buy at the top of the heap (WSJ/Harborside/Hawaii), a lot of SVN trades are "down." In other words, we're paying $300/night in MFs. Do we want to trade into a resort that we could rent outright for $250/night?

4) WKORV Owners have to foot the bill to upkeep a very in-demand property, but we're not given any money to offset the wear and tear from the folks who rent from Starwood. Starwood has written the agreement so that they get control of all unused inventory at 90 days out. They then get to pocket 100% of all rental income, with the possible exception of a small housekeeping fee.

5) Hawaii owners are at the mercy of fuel/airfare prices. Last year coach RT prices were over $1000. Yikes.

6) Having to book so far in advance (12 months out if I want the best view), it really limits my ability to get great deals on airfare and secure award seats.

7) I'm grown very disenchanted with Starwood management. Ideally we should be treated as partners. Suffice it to say that I don't feel like a partner. Nor do I feel valued or appreciated. Their reservation system is outdated. Their communication is crappy. They won't even divulge the name of our own HOA members so that we can ask them questions. I wouldn't trust them to manage my doghouse.

My 2 cents on LisaRex's list:

1) I believe MF have risen on avg 10% since its opening. I don't think one can rent a 2 bdrm at WKORV for $300/night...I think ~$450/night is the market price now. Also consider that during this current depression/sinking economy, rental rates are very low and availability is very high (I hope and expect that we will never see this economic situation again in my lifetime).

2) Agree. Thus, my advice not to trade within SVN or II...see above Post #3.

3) Agree. Most trades are down.

4) Agree.

5) Agree. However, this applies to all timeshares not within driving distance (unless you have a plane).

6) Agree. However, this applies to the other timeshare systems as well.

7) No comment.