Sunterra UDI Points: How do I get rid of them?

[BoredinVT]

I have some UDI points in Club Sunterra. Can they be sold? If not, how does one dispose of them when you're no longer wanted? Thanks

 

[AwayWeGo]

eBay

I regularly see clubless UDI Cypress Pointe Grande Villas points for sale on eBay.

Price'm low & they will go.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Bill4728]

I have some UDI points in Club Sunterra. Can they be sold? If not, how does one dispose of them when you're no longer wanted? Thanks

You'll see things on this website which says things like "you'll only get 1/2 or less than you paid from the developer." Well, with Sunterra, it is more likely going to be 10-20% or less. When you sell Sunterra, you can only sell what you own and can not sell membership in Club Sunterra, this greatly lowers the value of what you are selling.

 

[timeos2]

free cheap enough?

Over the past two years I've offered three UDI's from Grande Villas - all small, 1000 point packages - for free. Just this past weekend one was free AND they would pay the $290 closing. No thank you. These types of UDI's that don't reoresent but a day or two use only at the resort are the definition of worthless. Hopefully Sunterra will just take them back. They never should have been sold.

 

[BoredinVT]

John,
It's funny you should mention CP Grand Villas. That's where my 4500 worthless UDI's are located. Now, I'm just sitting back waiting for our 'Special Assessment' to arrrive in the mail to see how much more it's going to cost me to keep my worthless UDI's at CPGV...Yippee!!

 

[AwayWeGo]

Once Worthless, Always Worthless?

Hopefully Sunterra will just take them back. They never should have been sold.

OK, supposing SunTerra takes'm back. Then what? The deeds & master condo association docs., etc., provide that the timeshare units & UDIs cannot be further redivided -- i.e., I can't turn my every-year 3BR lock-off into an EEY plus an EOY & I can't sell off the 2BR "A" unit separately from the lock-off 1BR "B" unit. So unless there are special provisions applying to SunTerra as official developer of record at CP2, it's stuck with the same useless UDIs it takes back just as they already are & always will be forevermore amen.

Too bad a bunch of miscellaneous useless & semi-useless oddball timeshare UDIs can't be glommed back together & then redivided as perfectly good regular (floating) timeshare weeks.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Too bad a bunch of miscellaneous useless & semi-useless oddball timeshare UDIs can't be glommed back together & then redivided as perfectly good regular (floating) timeshare weeks.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

Unless I'm missing something Alan, I think the Sunterra system pretty much allows that to happen. All someone need do is pick up enough of those "worthless" UDI's and they will have enough points available to start booking whole weeks. If those UDI's are "worthless" as 1000 SunOption units, then that's a chance for someone to pick those up cheap to add to a portfolio. Savvy Owner has managed to convert those small units into a big enough package to start reserving individual weeks, and Savvy Owner has done accumulated those units far more cheaply than they would have simply buying the same size package as a whole unit.

****

But that's not the end of the story. Savvy Owner, if so inclined, can use the Spence Gambit to consolidate the units and get them into Club Sunterra. To do the Spence Gambit, Savvy Owner pays the bucks to Sunterra for a 2500 point SunOption purchase with Club Membership. As part of the purchase, Savvy Owner has Sunterra consolidate the small UDI's with the new purchase to create a single larger UDI that is affiliated with Club Sunterra.

Voila! Now Savvy Owner has combined all of those small "worthless" UDI's into a single larger (and thus more valulable) UDI. Since Savvy Owner acquired those small UDI's on the cheap because they were so small, Savvy Owner is now has acquired a bunch of Club SunOptions at even lower cost than Spence usually pays for his.

***

Truly, one Sunterra owner's trash can be another's gold.

 

[JoeMid]

OK, supposing SunTerra takes'm back. Then what? The deeds & master condo association docs., etc., provide that the timeshare units & UDIs cannot be further redivided -- i.e., I can't turn my every-year 3BR lock-off into an EEY plus an EOY & I can't sell off the 2BR "A" unit separately from the lock-off 1BR "B" unit. So unless there are special provisions applying to SunTerra as official developer of record at CP2, it's stuck with the same useless UDIs it takes back just as they already are & always will be forevermore amen.

Too bad a bunch of miscellaneous useless & semi-useless oddball timeshare UDIs can't be glommed back together & then redivided as perfectly good regular (floating) timeshare weeks.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

Unless I'm missing something Alan, I think the Sunterra system pretty much allows that to happen. All someone need do is pick up enough of those "worthless" UDI's and they will have enough points available to start booking whole weeks. If those UDI's are "worthless" as 1000 SunOption units, then that's a chance for someone to pick those up cheap to add to a portfolio. Savvy Owner has managed to convert those small units into a big enough package to start reserving individual weeks, and Savvy Owner has done accumulated those units far more cheaply than they would have simply buying the same size package as a whole unit.

****

But that's not the end of the story. Savvy Owner, if so inclined, can use the Spence Gambit to consolidate the units and get them into Club Sunterra. To do the Spence Gambit, Savvy Owner pays the bucks to Sunterra for a 2500 point SunOption purchase with Club Membership. As part of the purchase, Savvy Owner has Sunterra consolidate the small UDI's with the new purchase to create a single larger UDI that is affiliated with Club Sunterra.

Voila! Now Savvy Owner has combined all of those small "worthless" UDI's into a single larger (and thus more valulable) UDI. Since Savvy Owner acquired those small UDI's on the cheap because they were so small, Savvy Owner is now has acquired a bunch of Club SunOptions at even lower cost than Spence usually pays for his.

***

Truly, one Sunterra owner's trash can be another's gold.

While someone may be able to collect a bunch of these 'worthless' UDIs and then get them all into the Club for a fee so that they work together, I think the problem may remain of exhorbitant maintenance fees. You aren't really combining the UDIs, you're putting them in the Club.

I've Seen CPGV UDI billings and there seems to be a 'common' fee for UDI owners (no matter what size) then a fee per point. So you would end up paying that common fee many times over, just what I think is the case.

 

[timeos2]

No can do or it would have been done

While someone may be able to collect a bunch of these 'worthless' UDIs and then get them all into the Club for a fee so that they work together, I think the problem may remain of exhorbitant maintenance fees. You aren't really combining the UDIs, you're putting them in the Club.

I've Seen CPGV UDI billings and there seems to be a 'common' fee for UDI owners (no matter what size) then a fee per point. So you would end up paying that common fee many times over, just what I think is the case.

You beat me to the post! That is absolutely the problem. You need at least 7000 or more options (points) to make a full red use week. Each one of these worthless UDI 1000 to 1500 option contracts is a separate annual fee. I didn't bother to price the latest one but one that I almost accepted (thank heavens for due diligence) in 2005 was $295/year for 1000 options and fees have gone up since then! Thats without the annual club fee if you rejoin or the $2900 to re-up into Club. As they are sold or given away they are only good at the resort - not in Club - and they represent at best a day or two of use.

Nope, this is no cheap way to amass Sunterra options. It is better nick named fools gold.

 

[AwayWeGo]

U.D.I., Shmoo-Dee-Eye.

You aren't really combining the UDIs, you're putting them in the Club.

OK, so putting'm back into Club SunTerra is not the same as recombining them into some kind of usable stand-alone intervals -- if not full timeshare weeks then at least usable quantities of resort-specific UDI timeshare points. But what the O.P. wanted to know is how to get rid of'm after quitting Club SunTerra -- not ways of getting in even deeper.

I've Seen CPGV UDI billings and there seems to be a 'common' fee for UDI owners (no matter what size) then a fee per point. So you would end up paying that common fee many times over, just what I think is the case.

Whoa -- a good reason (from SunTerra's perspective) not to take back those semi-useless oddball timeshre UDIs. It's 1 thing for the peons to pay multiple 'common fees,' something else again for the developer of record to be stuck with having to pay'm.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[timeos2]

They created a monster

Whoa -- a good reason (from SunTerra's perspective) not to take back those semi-useless oddball timeshre UDIs. It's 1 thing for the peons to pay multiple 'common fees,' something else again for the developer of record to be stuck with having to pay'm.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

Yes. I'd be worried about the Association in this case. Chances are given the scenario they (Sunterra sales) have now put them into there are owners - I know of at least 4 - who want out. They can't even give these things away so, in all likelihood, are going to simply walk away from the mess, stop paying fees (there goes the delinquent number back up they have worked so hard to get down) and let the week be foreclosed (MORE money out of the Association pocket). And then what does the Association do with them? You can't reliably rent them as they are small slices of time/units. They can't sell them - they appear to be truly worthless.

One of the best things we discovered about Cypress Pointe Resort (aka Phase 1) was the fact that despite being extremely flexible to use, with 100% float time and the ability to split the units into 1/2 bedroom and into 3 & 4 day split weeks all without requiring a Club membership, they were also sold very simply. Every week is a three bedroom, deeded week. Period. End of story. All owners pay the same fees, own the same type unit and have the same use rights within the only two designated seasons (Diamond & Emerald time).

Compare that to the nightmare that evolved over the years at Grande Villas where, at the least, there were 1, 2 and 3 bedroom units sold by deeded week, 1,2, 3 bedroom units sold as RTU weeks, UDI sold as 1,2, and 3 bedroom but in as little as 1 day worth of value and more I've probably missed. Oh yes, Club keep your deed and Club in the Trust! Some also have ROFR clauses (but they have never been exercised to my knowledge). How it can be billed, how you know if your paying the correct amount, how you know what you actually own unless you have some of the few deeded ownerships is beyond me. Call me old fashioned but I'll take a simple 3 bedroom deed any day over all that. A great example of what happens when sales are made simply to get a sale and not to benefit the buyer.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

You beat me to the post! That is absolutely the problem. You need at least 7000 or more options (points) to make a full red use week. Each one of these worthless UDI 1000 to 1500 option contracts is a separate annual fee. I didn't bother to price the latest one but one that I almost accepted (thank heavens for due diligence) in 2005 was $295/year for 1000 options and fees have gone up since then! Thats without the annual club fee if you rejoin or the $2900 to re-up into Club. As they are sold or given away they are only good at the resort - not in Club - and they represent at best a day or two of use.

Nope, this is no cheap way to amass Sunterra options. It is better nick named fools gold.

OK - I'm not familiar with the Florida trust. I was assuming they were like the Hawai'i trust, where the MF is a direct proportion of the size of the UDI - e.g., a 1000 SunOption UDI would have an annual fee that is one-tenth the annual fee for a 10,000 SunOption UDI.

Based on the numbers given, though, I concur that my strategy wouldn't make sense.

***

But if a person did collect a bunch of trust UDI's I suspect that Sunterra would combine them as part of an upgrade. They routinely combine old and new ownerships in the Hawai'i sales offices.

 

[JoeMid]

But if a person did collect a bunch of trust UDI's I suspect that Sunterra would combine them as part of an upgrade. They routinely combine old and new ownerships in the Hawai'i sales offices.

That's the beauty of the Trust (for Sunterra). They can easily 'foreclose' without really dealing with the legal aspects of a deed. They could also take them all back and combine them or whatever because they're not changing deeded property.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Reglomming The Unglommable.

And then what does the Association do with them? You can't reliably rent them as they are small slices of time/units. They can't sell them - they appear to be truly worthless.

If the HOA-BOD ends up owning a bunch of semi-useless UDIs at their own timeshare resort, then at least they could add'm up to whatever the UDIs work out to in terms of unit-days, unit-weeks, etc., & rent'm out at rack rates to the general public or at MF-equivalent rates to owners in good standing.

Short of foreclosure, maybe the HOA-BOD could also apply a creative approach to using unpaid, default units whose owners are locked out from using them because of non-payment. That is, when the owners are locked out for non-payment, the HOA-BOD has the right to rent out the units, with the proceeds offsetting the delinquencies. I seem to recall 1 creative HOA-BOD scheme of offering to sell some form of quasi-ownership of use rights for units to which the HOA-BOD had rental rights because of owner delinquency -- not the same as straight deeded ownership, but a recordable agreement between the HOA-BOD & the person buying use rights to locked-out units. (That way the HOA-BOD did not have its hand tied pending foreclosure, deed-back, etc.)

So even though the dinky UDIs don't add up to much individually, presumably the HOA-BOD selling off use rights to miscellaneous UDI intervals it controls can so do by glomming together enough of'm to add up to a regular timeshare week. That's assuming that offering such use agreements won't conflict with whatever Exclusive On-Site Right To Sell privileges remain with the Developer Of Record.

If there's a downside, I'm guessing it's in the attorney fees to come up with the necessary & appropriate paperwork & in the accounting nightmare involved in keeping track of the reglommed delinquent UDIs.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[az mom]

But are they regular points, once in Club??

Hi all,

Where is Spence to weigh in on this discussion?

My understanding on this was that the UDI points
will be converted into "standard" Club points once
accumulated and then converted into cClub, thereby
being billed with the single Club fee and price-per-
point of all other points. In that case, it WOULD
be advantageous for a person, if they could
accumulate the small packages cheaply and not
pay too many fees while owning them individually
(convert before maintenance fees due again!)
to gather a bunch of small points packages
and then convert them to Club. Trash-into-gold.

What am I missing about this picture?

Stacy Stubbs
tug member since 2005
I have resale Sunterra points, but am not a Club Sun member.

 

[JoeMid]

Unfortunately, a UDI at a specific resort is not glommable in AwayWeGo's terminology. A UDI is a deed that gives ownership in several units and apportions the percentage by a fraction or ratio that represents an amount of Sunoptions or points. The resort will then usually charge a base maintenance fee for a points deed and a maintenance fee per point. Even if you add this to a Club Sunterra account at whatever cost they may be charging you still have the maintenance fee for that specific deed to pay. Thus small UDI deeds are very costly when it comes to maintenance fees.

This is different from Trust ownership where you can add contracts to either a Trust account or a Club account and pay only one 'Trust' base fee. Which is the scenario that AzMom appears to be trying to describe.

 

[BoredinVT]

Even if you add this to a Club Sunterra account at whatever cost they may be charging you still have the maintenance fee for that specific deed to pay. Thus small UDI deeds are very costly when it comes to maintenance fees.

JoeMid, You're so right about high M/F's for small UDI's !

 

[JudyfromKansas]

Friend losing expiring Sunterra points, what to do?

A friend recently bought into Kaanapali Beach, Maui when (I believe) it was Marriott. Now it's apparently been bought by Sunterra. He has 20,000 points he's going to lose by Oct. 31 if not used. I believe I read somewhere that he could make a reservation using the points, getting cancellation insurance and then canceling the reservtion later and using the points sometime during the next year. Is this correct and what are UDI's anyway?

We're both new at this timesharing game.

 

[winger]

Hi all,

Where is Spence to weigh in on this discussion?

....

LOL I asked this question and was told he is banned for life from this TUGGer's site

 

[Bill4728]

LOL I asked this question and was told he is banned for life from this TUGGer's site

Spence is no longer posting on TUG. If you want to ask him a question he does post over on Timeshareforums.com

 

[JoeMid]

A friend recently bought into Kaanapali Beach, Maui when (I believe) it was Marriott. Now it's apparently been bought by Sunterra. He has 20,000 points he's going to lose by Oct. 31 if not used. I believe I read somewhere that he could make a reservation using the points, getting cancellation insurance and then canceling the reservtion later and using the points sometime during the next year. Is this correct and what are UDI's anyway? We're both new at this timesharing game.

Well, Kaanapali Beach Club, a Premier Sunterra Resort (and pretty soon a Premier Diamond Resorts International Resort) was the former Embassy Vacation Resort. EVR was a franchise and Sunterra has been the owner for a longggg time, they just decided to quit the franchise for this resort, Lake Tahoe, and Grand Beach Orlando.

What to do with 20,000 points this late in the year. Do not pass go, do not collect $200, immediately save 5,000 points to 2008, at this late date, that's all you can save, do it now, do it before Oct 31, you can do it online or call CS.

OK, now you have 15,000 points. Immediately start looking at Interval International for anything you can use/book. Not a search, but book. Any reservation made (for any future date in 2007, 2008 & 2009) by Oct 31 2007 through I.I. can be made using 2007 points. After Oct 31 you must use 2008 points.

Ask questions if you don't understand this or you're losing out.

p.s. You don't actually lose until Dec 31 but it's way too late by then, WARNING cancellation insurance is great except for the fact that if you book something with what they call Reservation Protection Plan, you get back all the points right back into the year they came from which doesn't do you any good. RPP is only good for reservations early in the year when you still have something possible with the points.

 

[CharlesS]

They can't even give these things away so, in all likelihood, are going to simply walk away from the mess, stop paying fees (there goes the delinquent number back up they have worked so hard to get down) and let the week be foreclosed (MORE money out of the Association pocket). And then what does the Association do with them?

Forgive me for I am lost in who owns what, etc. If you can give me easy Yes or No answers to the following questions, it might help me. Let's assume I own 1000 Sun Options.

1. Do I have a real deed to a unit/time interval?

2. If the answer to #1 is no, does Sunterra hold the deed?

3. Do I pay my maintenance fees to the HOA?

4. Do I pay my maintenance fees to Sunterra?

5. If the answer to #3 is No and the answer to #4 is Yes, does Sunterra pay my maintenance fees to the HOA?

6. If the answer to #3 is No and the answer to #4 is Yes, does the HOA get the base fee ($295 in 1005) as well as the per point fee?

7. By now you know where I am going. But I can't ask the next question (since I promised that all I wanted are easy Yes or No answers). So I will wait until I get answers to # 1-7.

Thanks, Charles

 

[timeos2]

Answers (as best I know)

Forgive me for I am lost in who owns what, etc. If you can give me easy Yes or No answers to the following questions, it might help me. Let's assume I own 1000 Sun Options.

1. Do I have a real deed to a unit/time interval?

You have a recorded deed for a UDI share (a piece of a piece of a unit). 1000 options is about 2 days in a one bedroom unit I hear. So yes.

2. If the answer to #1 is no, does Sunterra hold the deed?

No. Thats the trust - a different animal.

3. Do I pay my maintenance fees to the HOA?

Yes.

4. Do I pay my maintenance fees to Sunterra?

No. But you may pay Club fees if you are a member (and on resale you cannot be a Club member unless you pay to rejoin. The previous Club membership ends at the sale).

5. If the answer to #3 is No and the answer to #4 is Yes, does Sunterra pay my maintenance fees to the HOA?

No. Only in the case of the Trust based owners.

6. If the answer to #3 is No and the answer to #4 is Yes, does the HOA get the base fee ($295 in 1005) as well as the per point fee?

N/A

7. By now you know where I am going. But I can't ask the next question (since I promised that all I wanted are easy Yes or No answers). So I will wait until I get answers to # 1-7.

Thanks, Charles

 

[JoeMid]

Forgive me for I am lost in who owns what, etc. If you can give me easy Yes or No answers to the following questions, it might help me. Let's assume I own 1000 Sun Options.

1. Do I have a real deed to a unit/time interval?

2. If the answer to #1 is no, does Sunterra hold the deed?

3. Do I pay my maintenance fees to the HOA?

4. Do I pay my maintenance fees to Sunterra?

5. If the answer to #3 is No and the answer to #4 is Yes, does Sunterra pay my maintenance fees to the HOA?

6. If the answer to #3 is No and the answer to #4 is Yes, does the HOA get the base fee ($295 in 1005) as well as the per point fee?

7. By now you know where I am going. But I can't ask the next question (since I promised that all I wanted are easy Yes or No answers). So I will wait until I get answers to # 1-7.

Thanks, Charles

You have a recorded deed for a UDI share (a piece of a piece of a unit). 1000 options is about 2 days in a one bedroom unit I hear. So yes.

TimeOs, how can you say this, what did I miss, he didn't say he had a deed or the Trust, all you know is 1000 SunOptions, that doesn't tell you anything?

 

[AwayWeGo]

Just Assuming, For The Sake Of Discussion.

TimeOs, how can you say this, what did I miss, he didn't say he had a deed or the Trust, all you know is 1000 SunOptions, that doesn't tell you anything?

He said Let's Assume I Own 1,000 SunOptions (or words to that effect). Maybe he does. Maybe he doesn't. Mox nix. That was the just assumption people's responses got based on. Not that anything's wrong with that. (And not that I'm Time0s, which I'm not -- not that anything's wrong with that, either.) So it goes.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​