Sunspots' Mysterious Disappearance

[MULTIZ321]

Sunspots' Mysterious Disappearance - by Stuart Clark in WashingtonPost.com


Richard

 

[easyrider]

Solar activity is a very interesting topic. The Farmers Almanac has predicted these, including the cycle we are in.

http://www.farmersalmanac.com/astronomy/2010/04/26/what-are-sunspots/

So what truely heats the earth. It would be an error to believe man is more capable of this than the sun.

 

[pgnewarkboy]

So what truely heats the earth. It would be an error to believe man is more capable of this than the sun.

I think the above statement is an error in many ways. I read the article. Scientists may be able to use the reduced sunspot activity to determine the ratios of sunlight to carbon in the air and how that impacts computer models. As far as I know, everyone understands you need sun to heat the earth. The FACT is that releasing gases into our atmosphere traps the sunlight and the heat thus magnifying the effect. Additionally, heat is not the only disastrous effect of global warming. The noxious gases in and of themselves will kill life on earth as they continue to accumulate. Climate change deniers think that the sun is solely responsible for increased warming. That is flat out wrong and proven by the science developed by thousands of low paid, well educated scientific experts in relevant fields. Somehow climate change deniers think that this uncoordinated large number of individual scientists coming from different universities and organizations around the world are engaged in a conspiracy for - WHAT? However, the handful of huge petro-chemical and energy companies as well as ARAB nations who live off oil are telling the truth and have no reason to lie. Just like BP.

 

[easyrider]

You are so off base. The earth is extremely cool compared with other times in the earths history.

http://www.scotese.com/climate.htm

The use of models is not a realistic way to predict climate change. Using forensic science studying the past is the only reliable way to predict future climate.

How am I a denier of climate change. I am an accepter of climate change. Just as seasons change, apparently the temperature of the earth has changed.

Climate will always change. It is the people that think they can control this change that will have a problem.

You just can not control the un-controllable. You can however predict the predictable.

 

[pgnewarkboy]

You are so off base. The earth is extremely cool compared with other times in the earths history.

http://www.scotese.com/climate.htm

The use of models is not a realistic way to predict climate change. Using forensic science studying the past is the only reliable way to predict future climate.

How am I a denier of climate change. I am an accepter of climate change. Just as seasons change, apparently the temperature of the earth has changed.

Climate will always change. It is the people that think they can control this change that will have a problem.

You just can not control the un-controllable. You can however predict the predictable.

First, global warming caused by humans is not based on computer modelling. It is based on the geologic record. The geologic record is the exact opposite of what you say. Here is an article on the subject:

Long-term climate records from the Arctic provide strong new evidence that human-caused global warming can override Earth's natural heating and cooling cycles, U.S. researchers reported this week in the journal Science.

For more than 2,000 years, a natural wobble in Earth's axis has caused the Arctic region to move farther away from the sun during the region's summer, reducing the amount of solar radiation it receives. The Arctic is now 600,000 miles farther from the sun than it was in AD 1, and temperatures there should have fallen a little more than 1 degree Fahrenheit since then.




Instead, the region has warmed 2.2 degrees since 1900 alone, and the decade from 1998 to 2008 was the warmest in two millenniums, according to a team headed by climatologist Darrell S. Kaufman of Northern Arizona University.


Not only was the last half-century the warmest of the last 2,000 years, "but it reversed the long-term, millennial-scale trend toward cooler temperatures," Kaufman said.

The results seem to negate the primary argument of those who say the current warming of Earth is simply a natural variation, he said.

The Arctic region has actually warmed about three times as much as the rest of Earth through a well-known effect called Arctic amplification.

As reflective snow and ice melt and are replaced by dark water and vegetated surfaces that absorb more sunlight, trapped heat is released back into the atmosphere. The absorption also thaws permafrost, releasing greenhouse gases such as methane back into the atmosphere to increase warming even more.

The climate warming record was produced from tree rings, glacier ice and cores drilled in 14 lakes around the Arctic.

Layers of sediment provided a proxy for temperatures: thicker layers indicated higher temperatures as water from melting glaciers pushed mud into the lakes, while thinner layers indicated less melting.

All three data sources told the same story -- that the Arctic began to warm at the beginning of the Industrial Age in the mid-1800s, when humans began releasing large quantities of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.

The temperature increase is supported by recent data showing that glaciers in the region are shrinking more rapidly than has ever been observed. As the glaciers shrink, they release water that raises ocean levels, threatening coastlines around the world.

Scientists have been debating how high the oceans will rise, but many say an increase of 6 to 9 feet is not out of the question if greenhouse gas release continues at the current rate.

The 21,000-year cycle of the axis wobble is now in its 7,000th year, and the Arctic will not reach its closest point to the sun for 14,000 more years.

--

 

[Rob&Carol Q]

You dared to challenge the current orthodoxy/religion. Hence the rending of garments...

Funny, in other fields that's called debate...Settled science my behind. Once upon a time the earth was flat too...

Funny thing, even though I accept the premise that CO2 is a greenhouse gas...and we ought to control what enters into our environment...I sure shoveled a lot of Global Warming off my driveway last Jan/Feb. AND, the Arctic Ice Pack actually grew last year.

Seriously though, Climate Change is real. It's been happening as long as this earth has been in existence and it is rather impossible to stop or delay. Our own recorded history as the human race reveals countless examples of empire or city utterly destroyed by a shift in rainfalls, temps, winds... Shoot, there is a decent evidence that the mini Ice Age of the late 1600's to early 1700's might have encouraged much of the early migrations to this great nation as folks with failed plantings had nothing to lose. This time "might" have been related to Sunspots. Here's a ref. I sort of figure that NASA is respectable and even they acknowledge "Research is ongoing"

http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/SunspotCycle.shtml

All in all, an interesting topic...but not the end of the world. We are an adaptable people.
===============
Adding a Global Cooling study...good read...

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ada469325&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf

 

[ScoopKona]

First, global warming caused by humans is not based on computer modelling. It is based on the geologic record. The geologic record is the exact opposite of what you say. Here is an article on the subject:

Climate change deniers won't read it. Or they'll read it and dismiss it.

I wish I could understand their mindset. Ask anyone whether a volcanic eruption like Mt. Pinatubo can affect climate, and most reasonable people will say "yes."

Humans release more CO2 into the environment than volcanoes. But somehow we cannot be responsible for any climate change. Go figure.

My guess is that they hate Al Freakin' Gore more than they love their planet.

 

[Rob&Carol Q]

My guess is that they hate Al Freakin' Gore more than they love their planet.

You mean Al "Sex-Crazed Poodle" Gore???

As the owner of two prim and proper Standard Poodles...perfect ladies both...I take offense!:rofl: :hysterical: :rofl:

 

[easyrider]

Getting back to our sun, which heats our planet, I have to ask, how is the sun not the most significant factor in the equation of climate change ?

Even without mans help ruining the environment the climate will and has always changed.

Even if every one globally decided to participate in a co2 reduction program, the climate will change. Even if we all give 20% of our wealth to reduce co2 the climate will change.

The desert that I live in now was once a shallow fresh water jungle. Before that it was a huge lake. Before that it was covered in ice. These ecological successions are happening still with or with out any help from humans.

 

[pgnewarkboy]

Try and eat your cash or your gold or collectibles! Our wealth is the world we live in.

I am sure you have heard of smog. Who created smog? Isn't that caused by automobile and other pollution as it is mixed with sunlight? Smog shortened peoples lives by causing lung cancer. Smog is a fouling of the atmosphere by human pollution.

Here is a link to a short article about smog:

http://weather.about.com/od/ozoneinformation/qt/smogcity.htm


Smog is absolute and irrefutable proof that man made pollutants mixed with sunlight can cause disaster. There is further irrefutable , yes irrefutable, proof that carbon captures heat caused by sunlight with disastrous impacts on humans and all living things.

 

[Conan]

Some facts about global warming:
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/2005/
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/2005/2005cal_fig1.gif

 

[pgnewarkboy]

In addition to Smog, it is completely irrefutable that aerosols and certain refrigerants were eating ozone in the atmosphere. That is why we have laws in this country about aerosols and refrigerants. Man can and has absolutely done damage to the atmosphere that we need to survive. Same for global warming.

 

[easyrider]

All of the information about green house gasses is correct to the extent of the last 100 years or so of collected data. To say earth is warmer now than 100 years ago is correct. To say earth is warmer now than ever before is incorrect.

There is no doubt that man made polution has ruined geographical areas of the earth.

There is also no doubt that nateral causes such as methane releases and volcanic releases have ruined geographical areas of the earth and have changed the climate. These releases have changed climate since day one of earth history.

http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/1997/of97-262/of97-262.html

There is also no doubt that if the sun dimished 10% the earth would cool as well. There is no doubt that if the sun has a 10% increased energy that the earth will warm up.

__________________________________________________________
The wealth I own is contained on the earth we live in.

At the grocery store and most every where else, they trade goods for money. No one is accepting anything but curency at this time.

And yes, I agree that smog is not good for anyone, so try not to inhale deeply when in a smoggy area.

 

[BocaBum99]

Global Warming Alarmists are a futile bunch. Humans are definitely impacting the environment. We always have and we always will.

The big problem with the whole religion of global warming extremism is that they actually believe there is something we can do about it. WRONG.

I happen to believe strongly that the whole idea of Global Warming and now Climate change is one for the environmentalists to use to scare people into taking action that will in the end be meaningless anyway.

The bottom line is that if it is indeed true that human caused global warming will indeed harm the world, then the answer is not to try to stop it. It is to figure out what to adapt to living with higher seas on few glaciers. And, we should accelerate our space exploration to find new planets on which to live and travel.

That's because there is absolutely no way that it is possible to de-industrialize the world to reduce carbon emissions enough to get them back to where they were without dire consequences to humans. In the case of Global Warming alarmists, the cure is far worse than the disease.

So, Global Warming Alarmists, why don't you simply move on to something else. Al Gore already has. He's made his hundred million dollars on this hoax.

 

[Conan]

More facts (sorry I couldn't scale this down a bit):

 

[pgnewarkboy]

Giant "scrubbers" could take the carbon out of the air

Global warming is a science - not a religion. There is a tremendous amount of evidence to support global warming caused by humans. That evidence was collected by scientists using proven scientific methods not religious gurus. We all know that.

What can be done about global warming? Undoubtedly it is not an easy task but it is one we must undertake because humans will only be able to adapt in the short term. We actually will have to adapt because global warming has been causing pronounced changes for years. While we adapt, conserve, change fuels we will have to find ways to eliminate the carbon from the air or reduce the amount of sunlight coming to earth. These seem to be the two most favored approaches at the present time. There are ways to reflect the sunlight back into space. There are also ways to "scrub" the carbon out of the air. Scientists and engineers are already working on prototype big scrubbers that could be placed throughout the world. These prototypes are not as large as I would have thought. Just about the size of an average building. Scrubbing carbon out of the air is not a new technology. It has been used in coal mines and submarines for years. The issue is to upsize the devices and deploy them in large scale all over the world. I am not a scientist but this approach seems very encouraging to me and others. We have to have a short term and long term strategy to survive. We have to put resources into developing technologies to get us out of this mess.

 

[MULTIZ321]

For those not familiar with Carbon (CO2) Scrubbing, here's an overview from Green Living, including the pros and cons.

CO2 Scrubber


Richard