Sunset Harbor to vote on terminating Hyatt management contract

[AJCts411]

I’d be for staying if HRC/Hyatt management/MVC guaranteed these changes in writing. I could of emailed MVC this for use in their "workshop", but I guess it would just be buried.

Club Fees optional. I use my weeks, never trade. No benefit.

Cap the management fees charged to 10 per cent. Remove reserve funding from being added to this fee. After all, as the HRC recent letter to owners says, you are a huge company with the advange of huge buying power, and there are two other HRC resorts in Key West…shouldn’t that all influence/ buying power transfer also to management fees?

Provide for ownership transfers between family members, for a nominal fee of $100.00. ROFR waived for these transfers. With a legal recorded deed submitted, allow family members, spouse to be added to the HYATT account for a nominal fee of $50.00.

Acknowledge week owner right to reserve both A & B sides of an owned lockout, removing the restriction forcing lock out owners to deposit one side of their owned lockout for points.

Direct HRC sales staff to stop using negative verbiage about week owners. We are NOT the problem! You can put all the spin you wish selling portfolio points, but do not disparage owners.

 

[Kal]

I only post facts! Believe them fine, choose not to believe them, fine as well.

Ah yes, ALTERNATIVE FACTS! You can take that to the bank. Blue sky facts. Sure you betcha.

 

[Sapper]

Isn't ROFR written into the underlying CC&R for most timeshare resorts. It isn't really part of the management agreement. So when a resort manager steps away, who becomes the beneficiary of the ROFR provision in the underlying condominium documents?

When Aspen was splitting, I mentioned this in the big thread. Depending how the original developer contract is written, ROFR is a developer right, not a management right. This means that Hyatt, as the developer, *could* ROFR units even if they are no longer the management company. They may or may not do this for a number of reasons. IF the developer contract allows for this, that would mean there is a scenario where Hyatt/MVC is voted out, ROFRs enough units to have control, votes in a board of MVC employees who then vote to go back under Hyatt management, put it to an owner vote, they are now the majority and win the vote. It would be expensive for Hyatt/MVC, and would take a couple of years, but they could do it. A way the BoD *might* be able to block this would be to put something into place that states that no one entity can own more than X number of units. HPP is a separate entity from Hyatt the developer, so it might prevent Hyatt from growing their ownership using HPP. Hyatt could still acquire the units through ROFR, but they could not do much with them until they had enough to win the vote. The carrying cost would be significant.

 

[Sapper]

I’d be for staying if HRC/Hyatt management/MVC guaranteed these changes in writing. I could of emailed MVC this for use in their "workshop", but I guess it would just be buried.

Club Fees optional. I use my weeks, never trade. No benefit.

Cap the management fees charged to 10 per cent. Remove reserve funding from being added to this fee. After all, as the HRC recent letter to owners says, you are a huge company with the advange of huge buying power, and there are two other HRC resorts in Key West…shouldn’t that all influence/ buying power transfer also to management fees?

Provide for ownership transfers between family members, for a nominal fee of $100.00. ROFR waived for these transfers. With a legal recorded deed submitted, allow family members, spouse to be added to the HYATT account for a nominal fee of $50.00.

Acknowledge week owner right to reserve both A & B sides of an owned lockout, removing the restriction forcing lock out owners to deposit one side of their owned lockout for points.

Direct HRC sales staff to stop using negative verbiage about week owners. We are NOT the problem! You can put all the spin you wish selling portfolio points, but do not disparage owners.

I shot an email to Stephanie Butera (COO) two nights ago echoing some of your points (one club fee, even for multiple owned unit/weeks and stop playing accounting games that only serve to increase MVC’s profit margin [no bid contracts, “operating reserves”, increased management fee percentage, etc…]). Announce these changes during their webinar on the 22nd or risk loosing Sunset. If Sunset leaves the Hyatt system, it will embolden other BoD to follow suit. Next up is Incline Village, then Park Hyatt, then Maui. What is better for the MVC shareholders: a strong system with reasonable profit margin (reduced from current) or a shattered system that is a fraction of what it once was. She has not responded. Although, after reading about the shakeup at MVC in another thread, she may be more interested in her next position than my email.

 

[dioxide45]

When Aspen was splitting, I mentioned this in the big thread. Depending how the original developer contract is written, ROFR is a developer right, not a management right. This means that Hyatt, as the developer, *could* ROFR units even if they are no longer the management company. They may or may not do this for a number of reasons. IF the developer contract allows for this, that would mean there is a scenario where Hyatt/MVC is voted out, ROFRs enough units to have control, votes in a board of MVC employees who then vote to go back under Hyatt management, put it to an owner vote, they are now the majority and win the vote. It would be expensive for Hyatt/MVC, and would take a couple of years, but they could do it. A way the BoD *might* be able to block this would be to put something into place that states that no one entity can own more than X number of units. HPP is a separate entity from Hyatt the developer, so it might prevent Hyatt from growing their ownership using HPP. Hyatt could still acquire the units through ROFR, but they could not do much with them until they had enough to win the vote. The carrying cost would be significant.

There would still be nothing preventing Hyatt (the developer) from acquiring the weeks via ROFR and then selling them again to HPP. That way, there is no carrying cost. Diamond was able to take over a lot of BOD years ago by buying up enough deeds at small independant properties to get voting control. Not sure if they carried those costs or had other ways to monetize what they bought.

As to ROFR though, without Hyatt (the management company) there to enforce it, the new management company and HOA would be willing to transfer weeks into the new owner's name without first making sure it went through ROFR. At a HRC managed resort, they can refuse to transfer a deed internally. Without that management function, they really have no way to enforce ROFR except through the courts.

 

[AJCts411]

Has anyone read the terms under which ROFR is granted and to whom? Is it in perpetuity? Just asking. Would you share your knowledge? When I purchased my weeks, disclosed was the HRC had ROFR. Everything I have read about ROFR (limited) was connected to HRC. And then out there to our lawyer types, if in fact the developer has those rights can they be sold/transferred/conveyed? I ask this because I will assume that the ROFR rights were established to protect poperty values, and now in fact it is being use to prop up a corporate business venture, portfolio.

 

[GTLINZ]

When Aspen was splitting, I mentioned this in the big thread. Depending how the original developer contract is written, ROFR is a developer right, not a management right.

If i remember reading correctly, the Aspen settlement included no more purchasing by Marriott via ROFR or otherwise in exchange for the HPP ownership being treated equitably. Its all in the settlement.

 

[INCHWORM]

Hyatt/MVC has 3 goals:

1. Satisfy the stockholders/investors by increasing stock prices
2. Selling new timeshares/programs (related to above)
3. Satisfying current owners

Somehow they have to balance the above 3 goals but no matter how they balance them, current owners are losing out to some degree by the other 2 goals.

The Sunset Harbor BOD has one goal, to optimally manage Sunset Harbor in the best interests of the owners. The BOD doesn't receive any benefit from escalating maintenance fees and if they don't do a good job, they can be voted out.

There are numerous successful independent boards out there and there is no reason to think that Hyatt/MVC is the only company that can properly manage this resort.

What HPP owners want is irrelevant to Sunset Harbor owners and not necessarily in Sunset Harbor owner's best interest.

Sunset Harbor is sitting on a Gold Mine location in Key West and no one should worry that the resort will lose value if Hyatt/MVC is voted out.

I'm not saying everyone should vote yes. I think people need to vote for whatever decision is in their best interest, but there are some ridiculous statements being thrown about implying the BOD has some ulterior motive in requesting this change when they have spelled out the reasons they are requesting the change.

I state again to all, don't put a lot of weight on opinions of people who just joined this forum in the last week.

Seems irrelevant as to "when" I joined the discussion on this topic however, FYI, I joined this discussion about a week ago. This is the first time I have EVER joined a forum. I've never had anything that moved me to spend my valuable time with writing about my opinion NOR listening to other people's opinions. I'm not much of a social media user either. However, I was so very disturbed and disappointed by the BOD proposal and its ramifications in this instance, that I felt compelled to enlist one of my adult kids to help me find out what others were saying and to express my opinions and experiences which differ immensely from that of the BOD..(hence, I was guided to this forum)
I would take offense to the idea that my opinion matters less, simply because I'm newer to forums. I'm an HRC owner at numerous properties (from one side of the country to the other) beginning a very, very long time ago with a lot of experience frequently using my ownerships, trading them sometimes and changing into WOH sometimes. I would argue THAT'S WHAT makes my opinion quite valuable... and that it's irrelevant that I joined the forum a week ago to express my strong opposition to the BOD opinion/email. People feel compelled to speak out when there's a topic that compells them to do so!

 

[INCHWORM]

Here are some questions that the SH board needs to answer. Was the decision to exit Hyatt/Marriott vote unanimous? We’re all board members in attendance or on the telephone for the meeting ? If the vote wasn’t unanimous and less than 5 board members voting was there a dissenting opinion? I would caution all owners that voting prior to having all the information could be danheroism.

I too would be interested in knif the decision was unanimous? And read the minutes of the meeting.
If you find out any additional answers/information regarding answers, please post it. Thats why one of my initial questions was why didn't the email come from the board president and should have been signed by every board member (who supported it) given the serious significance and ramifications of this decision. IMO.

 

[BAT]

We have been trying to get a copy of the executive session board meeting for a week now and have been told that they are not yet available! Obviously the minutes will or should tell us the whole story. For whatever it is worth, it is our understanding that the meeting was held in Key West, that only 4 board members were in attendance and voted, and the vote was 3 to 1 in favor of the exit plan. It must have been an interesting meeting and some sort of organizational management team set up to manage Sunset Harbor in that Heisler‘s title went from SH board member to V. President in charge of Member Services. What does that team look like, who’s President? Who voted no? Which board member did not attend the meeting?
We also heard that earlier in that week, a board member resigned!!! Who was that? A lot of questions need to be answered by this board and a good start would be to release the meeting minutes. Our bet is they won’t be released until after July 14th.

 

[AJCts411]

We have been trying to get a copy of the executive session board meeting for a week now and have been told that they are not yet available! Obviously the minutes will or should tell us the whole story. For whatever it is worth, it is our understanding that the meeting was held in Key West, that only 4 board members were in attendance and voted, and the vote was 3 to 1 in favor of the exit plan. It must have been an interesting meeting and some sort of organizational management team set up to manage Sunset Harbor in that Heisler‘s title went from SH board member to V. President in charge of Member Services. What does that team look like, who’s President? Who voted no? Which board member did not attend the meeting?
We also heard that earlier in that week, a board member resigned!!! Who was that? A lot of questions need to be answered by this board and a good start would be to release the meeting minutes. Our bet is they won’t be released until after July 14th.

I believe as I the case of all BOD executive meetings minutes ard confidential. So nothing sinister or unusual here. Seems at that meeting a logical decision was made to appoint one member to be contact for this vote. Again logical to have one voice representing the board...flowing I formation...nothing sinister here either. Did someone resign...don't know and if there where maybe the hyatt employee did? Maybe the person did not have the time to commit any longer...besides your speculations...seems it's not public knowledge. Support marriotts destruction of owner weeks if wn a week if you want your choice. But stop with the cabal plot equations smearinvvghe BOD.

 

[INCHWORM]

We have been trying to get a copy of the executive session board meeting for a week now and have been told that they are not yet available! Obviously the minutes will or should tell us the whole story. For whatever it is worth, it is our understanding that the meeting was held in Key West, that only 4 board members were in attendance and voted, and the vote was 3 to 1 in favor of the exit plan. It must have been an interesting meeting and some sort of organizational management team set up to manage Sunset Harbor in that Heisler‘s title went from SH board member to V. President in charge of Member Services. What does that team look like, who’s President? Who voted no? Which board member did not attend the meeting?
We also heard that earlier in that week, a board member resigned!!! Who was that? A lot of questions need to be answered by this board and a good start would be to release the meeting minutes. Our bet is they won’t be released until after July 14th.

Thanks for update on whatever you know. I totally agree that the board LACKED ANY TRANSPARENCY in this entire process.. which was initially obvious from their one-sized presentation in the email to (now) their apparent unwillingness to share the minutes with the owners. I was wondering when it was signed by Heisler (member services committee). I had never heard of this so-called member services committee!
Now your information is shedding some light upon this attempted BOD take-over.
My suggestion at this point is that the BOD President should CANCEL THE VOTE to allow time for FULL DISCLOSURE by the BOD of EVERYTHING leading up to this exit proposal INCLUDING the minutes of the executive meeting. They should then allow time for rebuttal by Hyatt whom apparently reported it was as blindsided by this as much as a large number of us owners were.
Hyatt is setting up that webinar to answer questions on June 22nd and I think the BOD should also set up a webinar to answer our questions and open this WHOLE THING up for comments, concerns, debate.
CANCEL THE VOTE until further notice!!!
Once again I ask...what is/was the rush here? And frankly, I am concerned that many people voted already WITHOUT being fully informed and without having both sides presented. (I'm sure that responses take a little time to prepare in the corporate world, but I wish Hyatt had weighed in a lot sooner... I'm guessing quite a lot of people had already voted by the time they sent out a beginning of the rebuttal a few days later. )

I think the VOTE SHOULD BE CANCELED to allow time for all sides to present their positions to us owners and the BOD should offer FULL TRANSPARENCY as to the development of this proposal (which was radical, IMO).

 

[Lingber]

I have so many concerns about terminating Hyatt. This thread has been very helpful.

 

[AJCts411]

Thanks for update on whatever you know. I totally agree that the board LACKED ANY TRANSPARENCY in this entire process.. which was initially obvious from their one-sized presentation in the email to (now) their apparent unwillingness to share the minutes with the owners. I was wondering when it was signed by Heisler (member services committee). I had never heard of this so-called member services committee!
Now your information is shedding some light upon this attempted BOD take-over.
My suggestion at this point is that the BOD President should CANCEL THE VOTE to allow time for FULL DISCLOSURE by the BOD of EVERYTHING leading up to this exit proposal INCLUDING the minutes of the executive meeting. They should then allow time for rebuttal by Hyatt whom apparently reported it was as blindsided by this as much as a large number of us owners were.
Hyatt is setting up that webinar to answer questions on June 22nd and I think the BOD should also set up a webinar to answer our questions and open this WHOLE THING up for comments, concerns, debate.
CANCEL THE VOTE until further notice!!!
Once again I ask...what is/was the rush here? And frankly, I am concerned that many people voted already WITHOUT being fully informed and without having both sides presented. (I'm sure that responses take a little time to prepare in the corporate world, but I wish Hyatt had weighed in a lot sooner... I'm guessing quite a lot of people had already voted by the time they sent out a beginning of the rebuttal a few days later. )

I think the VOTE SHOULD BE CANCELED to allow time for all sides to present their positions to us owners and the BOD should offer FULL TRANSPARENCY as to the development of this proposal (which was radical, IMO).

The B0D speaks as a single elected voice. This is their recommendation. A yes. You can vote no. Is the board stopping you from a no vote? This topic has been brewing for some time. Those owners who are a yes don't need more discussion discovery to see what's painted on the wall. Marriot is only interested is to sell portfolio points. This is why they no longer sell weeks. It is a profit business that will improve shareholder value ...but at owners cost. Wonder even on this forum the topic has been discussed...where were you? Did you vote for BOD members? Full transparency...you want to micro manage and milagn the decision of the BOD is more likely. The BOD did everything legally and responsibly. Sorry you and Marriot disagree. One question when marriot or hyatt invented portfolio sold HRC...did they ask for your input? How transparent is Marriot with the big changes coming...mostly at the expense of owners I will bet.

 

[INCHWORM]

The B0D speaks as a single elected voice. This is their recommendation. A yes. You can vote no. Is the board stopping you from a no vote? This topic has been brewing for some time. Those owners who are a yes don't need more discussion discovery to see what's painted on the wall. Marriot is only interested is to sell portfolio points. This is why they no longer sell weeks. It is a profit business that will improve shareholder value ...but at owners cost. Wonder even on this forum the topic has been discussed...where were you? Did you vote for BOD members? Full transparency...you want to micro manage and milagn the decision of the BOD is more likely. The BOD did everything legally and responsibly. Sorry you and Marriot disagree. One question when marriot or hyatt invented portfolio sold HRC...did they ask for your input? How transparent is Marriot with the big changes coming...mostly at the expense of owners I will bet.

1) I've voted in the BOD votes at each and every property where I own.
2) I've never heard of this topic until the BOD released their email and yes, I used my ownership at SH these recent past years.
3) As previously mentioned, I've never been on a forum before...never saw a need to spend my valuable time on this sort of stuff UNTIL the BOD raised my ire with this egregious proposal affecting the terms of how I would be able to use my timeshares at SH in the future. I purchased SH and HRC as a combo with all the benefits thereof. Now the BOD is attempting to strip away a portion of that purchase that I find very beneficial!!!

 

[INCHWORM]

The B0D speaks as a single elected voice. This is their recommendation. A yes. You can vote no. Is the board stopping you from a no vote? This topic has been brewing for some time. Those owners who are a yes don't need more discussion discovery to see what's painted on the wall. Marriot is only interested is to sell portfolio points. This is why they no longer sell weeks. It is a profit business that will improve shareholder value ...but at owners cost. Wonder even on this forum the topic has been discussed...where were you? Did you vote for BOD members? Full transparency...you want to micro manage and milagn the decision of the BOD is more likely. The BOD did everything legally and responsibly. Sorry you and Marriot disagree. One question when marriot or hyatt invented portfolio sold HRC...did they ask for your input? How transparent is Marriot with the big changes coming...mostly at the expense of owners I will bet.

And one additional thought regarding your question of whether I cast my ballots for BOD elections...I don't recall any of the candidates' BIOs saying "vote for me because I'd like to divorce SH from Hyatt and HRC". I think I would have taken particular note of that! And micro manage? This is NOT a micro decision/proposal...this is as MAJOR as it gets considering I DID NOT and would not have bought into an independently run timeshare!

 

[magicjourney]

Thanks for update on whatever you know. I totally agree that the board LACKED ANY TRANSPARENCY in this entire process.. which was initially obvious from their one-sized presentation in the email to (now) their apparent unwillingness to share the minutes with the owners. I was wondering when it was signed by Heisler (member services committee). I had never heard of this so-called member services committee!
Now your information is shedding some light upon this attempted BOD take-over.
My suggestion at this point is that the BOD President should CANCEL THE VOTE to allow time for FULL DISCLOSURE by the BOD of EVERYTHING leading up to this exit proposal INCLUDING the minutes of the executive meeting. They should then allow time for rebuttal by Hyatt whom apparently reported it was as blindsided by this as much as a large number of us owners were.
Hyatt is setting up that webinar to answer questions on June 22nd and I think the BOD should also set up a webinar to answer our questions and open this WHOLE THING up for comments, concerns, debate.
CANCEL THE VOTE until further notice!!!
Once again I ask...what is/was the rush here? And frankly, I am concerned that many people voted already WITHOUT being fully informed and without having both sides presented. (I'm sure that responses take a little time to prepare in the corporate world, but I wish Hyatt had weighed in a lot sooner... I'm guessing quite a lot of people had already voted by the time they sent out a beginning of the rebuttal a few days later. )

I think the VOTE SHOULD BE CANCELED to allow time for all sides to present their positions to us owners and the BOD should offer FULL TRANSPARENCY as to the development of this proposal (which was radical, IMO).

If there are any legal issues in the process, I am sure Hyatt will step up and use that as a weapon. Since Hyatt will perform due diligence, as a owner I simply focus on the facts:
1. Are the facts in BOD email true? Answer: Yes
2. For years have Hyatt done anything to address the owner's concerns (multiple club dues, high MFs etc.)? Answer: No
Unless Hyatt make positive announcements in the June22nd meeting, my vote will be YES.

 

[SteveinHNL]

There would still be nothing preventing Hyatt (the developer) from acquiring the weeks via ROFR and then selling them again to HPP. That way, there is no carrying cost. Diamond was able to take over a lot of BOD years ago by buying up enough deeds at small independant properties to get voting control. Not sure if they carried those costs or had other ways to monetize what they bought.

As to ROFR though, without Hyatt (the management company) there to enforce it, the new management company and HOA would be willing to transfer weeks into the new owner's name without first making sure it went through ROFR. At a HRC managed resort, they can refuse to transfer a deed internally. Without that management function, they really have no way to enforce ROFR except through the courts.

They could file liens with the county recorder that would cloud title and basically render the new owners unable to sell. If they did this a few times then no one would buy without first getting the ROFR go-ahead from HRC

 

[ivywag]

Thanks for update on whatever you know. I totally agree that the board LACKED ANY TRANSPARENCY in this entire process.. which was initially obvious from their one-sized presentation in the email to (now) their apparent unwillingness to share the minutes with the owners. I was wondering when it was signed by Heisler (member services committee). I had never heard of this so-called member services committee!
Now your information is shedding some light upon this attempted BOD take-over.
My suggestion at this point is that the BOD President should CANCEL THE VOTE to allow time for FULL DISCLOSURE by the BOD of EVERYTHING leading up to this exit proposal INCLUDING the minutes of the executive meeting. They should then allow time for rebuttal by Hyatt whom apparently reported it was as blindsided by this as much as a large number of us owners were.
Hyatt is setting up that webinar to answer questions on June 22nd and I think the BOD should also set up a webinar to answer our questions and open this WHOLE THING up for comments, concerns, debate.
CANCEL THE VOTE until further notice!!!
Once again I ask...what is/was the rush here? And frankly, I am concerned that many people voted already WITHOUT being fully informed and without having both sides presented. (I'm sure that responses take a little time to prepare in the corporate world, but I wish Hyatt had weighed in a lot sooner... I'm guessing quite a lot of people had already voted by the time they sent out a beginning of the rebuttal a few days later. )

I think the VOTE SHOULD BE CANCELED to allow time for all sides to present their positions to us owners and the BOD should offer FULL TRANSPARENCY as to the development of this proposal (which was radical, IMO).

Do you own at Sunset Harbor? As I said before, any BOD can have a vote to change management companies and Hyatt/Marriott surely hasn’t done any favors for the HRC.

 

[ivywag]

Do you own at Sunset Harbor? As I said before, any BOD can have a vote to change management companies and Hyatt/Marriott surely hasn’t done any favors for the HRC.

Where was the vote when Hyatt created the HPP and instituted the Club to Club Exchange Agreement without Informing any HRC owners? Hyatt/Marriott didn’t even tell us that it was coming. Everything was a secret—-except, of course, on TUG!

 

[INCHWORM]

Do you own at Sunset Harbor? As I said before, any BOD can have a vote to change management companies and Hyatt/Marriott surely hasn’t done any favors for the HRC.

Yes...as stated before, I AM an owner at SH among many other HRC properties where I am an owner

 

[dioxide45]

Yes...as stated before, I AM an owner at SH among many other HRC properties where I am an owner

Hey wait, you are the HPP Doesn't it own many other HRC properties???

 

[amycurl]

One would think if it works, someone somewhere would have already tried the business model.

Harbor Ridge in Maine was sold this way. We had to talk our way into a tour, because they were *only* selling to locals, and offering *no* incentives to tour.

I think @ScoopLV's model would *absolutely* work in a place like Asheville, esp. if the resort was small and well-located.

At my most recent, and one of my most awkward, sales presentation at Hilton at Parc Soleil this weekend, the saleswomen kept asking us why we came, if we knew we weren't going to buy, and saw us as the problem. I said, "Look, I'm not the one who created this business model. Yet, here we are." If you want to give me three nights at a nice resort for less than $100/night, then, yes, I'm going to take it. Because that's in *my* economic self-interest.

 

[dioxide45]

Harbor Ridge in Maine was sold this way. We had to talk our way into a tour, because they were *only* selling to locals, and offering *no* incentives to tour.

I think @ScoopLV's model would *absolutely* work in a place like Asheville, esp. if the resort was small and well-located.

At my most recent, and one of my most awkward, sales presentation at Hilton at Parc Soleil this weekend, the saleswomen kept asking us why we came, if we knew we weren't going to buy, and saw us as the problem. I said, "Look, I'm not the one who created this business model. Yet, here we are." If you want to give me three nights at a nice resort for less than $100/night, then, yes, I'm going to take it. Because that's in *my* economic self-interest.

But I think the model only works in those few select locations (Disney being one of them). For some locations they simply wouldn't have the margins to be profitable enough to attract the bigger developers. Thus why you sometimes only have small independents in the interiors of the country. The current model has been going since almost the beginning of timeshare. If there was a better method, surely someone would have found a way to make it work and be profitable?

 

[ScoopKona]

Yes...as stated before, I AM an owner at SH among many other HRC properties where I am an owner

And yet you have never written about anything involving HRC. Just this one issue exclusively. I'm not going to believe a word you say unless you stick around after the vote and continue to talk about HRC and not just Sunset Harbor booting their management company.

Until then, I don't believe a word that you write -- and I still wouldn't even if every post you write was notarized.