Summer Bay Resort in Vegas: ATTENTION Owners

[krlorenz]

I was reading with much interest the thread on Summer Bay Resort Owners unite. All of a sudden the dicussion ended. I am wondering if the gentleman paul@premierbr.net has any more info for SBR owners.

 

[spatenfloot]

It ended because too many people realize that he has a vested interest in killing the deal. It is in the best interest for most owners for the proposed transfer to go through as it is.

 

[hajjah]

As a new owner, I agree. We need to keep this moving forward.

 

[krlorenz]

So it doesnt bother you guys that the development company is going to make all the money and the owners get nothing but another timeshare.

 

[krlorenz]

I have owned this property for 18 years. When we bought this timeshare part of their marketing was "you will own land on the strip". When Summer Bay took over we were somewhat relieved. We went to Vegas, met with a salesman and purchased another week. My only concern was that a bankruptcy would force the sale of the resort. The salesman reassured me that would never happen. And here we are today, about to lose our "land on the strip".

We are not going to send our packet back. Even if we lose our timeshare. I hope to get back to the resort someday soon and tell them what I think of them.

 

[Sandy]

Please reconsider

krlorenz,

It is unfortunate that you believe you have been misled. I am only a new owner, for a few months. From what I have heard, there have been many misrepresentations and lies. And you feel as many owners do, that this is another scam or some form of deceit.

However, you should seriously stay tuned to this procedure, and be cautious about just giving up your ownership. Seems that the new resort will have more value, and at the least you can sell it in the future if you don't want to own anymore. But if you give it up on principle, you have nothing when the final move takes place. I guess the resort will take back whatever units are not transferred to the Desert Club.

There is probably no need to transfer just yet, but there will in all likelihood come a point in time when everyone who wants to move will have to make a decision. Walking away from something you (probably) paid thousands of dollars for should not be taken lightly. Don't get me wrong, I understand some of your anger. But at minimum, you can sell your ownership, or give the ownership to a family member or friend, rather than let it lapse.

Just something to think about.

 

[krlorenz]

Sandy you talk as if the transfer is going to happen no matter what the owners want. It is my opinion that most of the companies involved in this transter of ownership are owners at SBR that have hopped on the wagon to make some money for themselves. That makes me sick. I believe this transfer has been planned for years and yes they did lie to us and maybe they will lie to us again and again and again. Maybe then you will understand how some long time owners feel now.

 

[Sandy]

krlorenz,

It is unfortunate that you believe you have been misled. I am only a new owner, for a few months. From what I have heard, there have been many misrepresentations and lies. And you feel as many owners do, that this is another scam or some form of deceit.

...
There is probably no need to transfer just yet, but there will in all likelihood come a point in time when everyone who wants to move will have to make a decision. Walking away from something you (probably) paid thousands of dollars for should not be taken lightly. Don't get me wrong, I understand some of your anger. But at minimum, you can sell your ownership, or give the ownership to a family member or friend, rather than let it lapse.

Klorenz

Sorry if you misunderstood my message. True, I am not a long time owner, but I thought I mentioned that I do believe that you have been lied to, and I expressed that your anger is justified.

The transfer will only happen if the percentage of owners (how many??) agree. Until that time, the things will continue as they are.

All I was suggesting in my post is that you think carefully before dumping the resort, if it turns out that the move actually takes place. I meant no offense.

 

[timeos2]

The gift horse may be moving on

I have owned this property for 18 years. When we bought this timeshare part of their marketing was "you will own land on the strip". When Summer Bay took over we were somewhat relieved. We went to Vegas, met with a salesman and purchased another week. My only concern was that a bankruptcy would force the sale of the resort. The salesman reassured me that would never happen. And here we are today, about to lose our "land on the strip".

We are not going to send our packet back. Even if we lose our timeshare. I hope to get back to the resort someday soon and tell them what I think of them.

What you bought was a sales pitch and a piece of one unit in a larger development that you own 1 seven day minuscule slice of. Even calling that property land "on the strip" is a stretch but, if someone such as Harrahs builds far enough back, it can be. Meanwhile the existing resort is a disaster that, until the upgrade was announced, almost couldn't be given away and is readily available at will on rent or trade.

Along comes a developer, who plans to make money no doubt, to move your tiny slice to a week in another resort, very close to the original, that will be a major upgrade both in quality and value at no cost to you. But some feel thats not enough. They want more - cash in hand. Well, if you want that, try selling your existing rights. Find out what your 1/52 of one small slice of a building on land near the strip is actually worth. You have nothing else to sell and you own nothing else. Asking for profits/development rights you don't control - the Association of all owners does - may not be the smartest move. Unless you do plan to simply give up on your ownership in which case you'll get what you expect. Nothing.

Every time this type of thing comes up - someone talking about how much a resort/property is worth if sold off for development - I can only laugh. Here is an opportunity no one could expect being offered to the owners of a, ahem, rather downtrodden resort and it might be quashed. And what will you own then? Once again try to sell the slice you feel is so valuable. Good luck.

Unbelievable.

 

[krlorenz]

We have owned at this timeshare for 18 years and we have been lied to over and over. There is no excuse for that. I believe the board and the powers that be will do anything to make their dream a reality. I would strongly suggest anyone looking at buying property at the Summer Bay Resort in Las Vegas, DO NOT BUY. There are many unscrupulous people in charge at this resort and they will do and say anything to get what they want and what they want is MONEY. We have watched our timeshare fall into dispair while our maintainance fees grew from year to year. Now we are expected to settle for another old building, further from the strip that will be in the same shape in ten years and another group of people will take the money and run only to file for bankruptcy so we can go through the same thing again. I am sure the resort is watching these forums for any discussion on this topic. Just to let them know, I did recieve a phone call from Vacation Property Resale inquiring about selling our timeshare. When I asked them about how they got my name they told me Summer Bay Resort gave my name to them. Now why do you suppose SBR would do that? Maybe it is "some form of deceit". Do ya think?

 

[krlorenz]

I am so glad I can bring some humor into your day timeos2. So you are saying when a salesman tells you something it doesnt have to be the trueth, you can just label it a sales pitch and you can tell me I fell for it. Just to inform you, the land that we have a deed for, is indeed on the strip. It hasn't been zoned multi use. As an owner I dont want the deal to go sour I just want what any land owner would want and that is a piece of what the land is worth, not what the delapitated resort is worth. And who is to blame for the state the resort is in. Who is responsible for keeping this resort in good shape. We thought it would be the great Summer Bay.

You know it seemed like only yestereday we were in Las Vegas buying our first timeshare. We listened when they told us all the plans that were in the works for renovations. It seems like that is all this resort ever did was renovate. And now it looks like we will renovate again if this goes through. We are going to renovate another old building that might last for awhile and then what, maybe move again, yeh and then we will renovate again. Yes it is unbelievable.

 

[krlorenz]

I appreciate your last post Sandy. This has been so frustrating for a very long time and now just because a develper wants to "help" take the property off our hands we are supposed to be overwhelmed with joy. No apology necessary. I am just tired of this mess. But I will not sign away my land and would encourage every SBR owner not to sign until we know all the facts. I am in the process of finding out all I can and hope to keep owners that haven't been scared into signing their deeds over informed as to what is happening. Maybe it will help maybe not, but at least I can say I tried to do what I think is right.

 

[stevedmatt]

Excuse my ignorance as I was considering buying a week just because of the transfer to the Desert Club.

Do people feel this is a bad deal because their current Summer Bay unit is worth more than the upgraded Desert Club unit? If this is your feeling, is it based on the fact that the Summer Bay property is closer to the strip?

Thanks for your insight. Tug is always full of great insight and I would like to know your feelings.

 

[dougp26364]

I am so glad I can bring some humor into your day timeos2. So you are saying when a salesman tells you something it doesnt have to be the trueth, you can just label it a sales pitch and you can tell me I fell for it. Just to inform you, the land that we have a deed for, is indeed on the strip. It hasn't been zoned multi use. As an owner I dont want the deal to go sour I just want what any land owner would want and that is a piece of what the land is worth, not what the delapitated resort is worth. And who is to blame for the state the resort is in. Who is responsible for keeping this resort in good shape. We thought it would be the great Summer Bay.

You know it seemed like only yestereday we were in Las Vegas buying our first timeshare. We listened when they told us all the plans that were in the works for renovations. It seems like that is all this resort ever did was renovate. And now it looks like we will renovate again if this goes through. We are going to renovate another old building that might last for awhile and then what, maybe move again, yeh and then we will renovate again. Yes it is unbelievable.

Are you saying that you believed the salesman or that the salesman didn't lie? Do you believe that after 18 years you could prove what was "said" by a salesman that's most likely no longer there? Do you honestly believe that timeshare salesman don't pitch heat? If so, I have some beach front property here in KS I'd be interested in selling you.

You will NEVER enforce what a salesman told you that is not in writing. You were lied to but now your wanting to cut your nose off to spite your face. Not only your face but the face of every other owner as what is one of the lower resorts in Vegas right now for ownership/exchanging. You actually have the opportunity to take a down troden non-five star resort that is NOT on the strip and trade up into a NEW FIVE STAR resort for NOTHING. Not only that but the ensuing development around said new resort will not only be new but INCREASE the value of the land all around it.

But nope, you're happy with the way it is. A resort in need of drastic and expensive upgrades (to be paid out of pocket by someone.....iewners....ie YOU) plus you want to try to drag any other owners down with you.

Sorry you've been lied to by a TS salesman and past developers but hey, welcome to timeshare 101. You own what you own. The deed to a 1/52 share of a condo in a timeshare developement. Past that you own nothing and right now that 1/52 slice is worth maybe $500 at best on resale.

Of course, if the move is made you'll gain a new resort and 5 star status with I.I. plus own a piece of property very close to new developement on the strip and possibly an improved location over what you presently have. If you do nothing then you will end up with exactly that.......nothing. Sounds like a good plan to me.

 

[krlorenz]

Stevedmatt,

I don't know how other owners feel, just how I feel. Throughout this whole ordeal I have been unable to get information on what was going on from the board or the corporate office. Other people have tried to get information only to be put off in the same way. The information I wanted would help me make a decision on whether or not I sign my land away. I have owned for 18 years and haven't experienced a whole lot of trueth in that time. Here is the deal. When we bought the timeshare we were told we would own land "on the strip". We thought the land would eventually be sold for redevelopmnent. We didn't realize it would be brought about by the resort filing for bankruptcy. Now the owners are being asked to give up their land on the strip for land near the strip. From articles I have read lately land on the strip is going for alot of money. Who is going to make the money from the change of ownership? The development company, not the owners that have bought and paid for it and have paid huge maintaince fees for many years. Doesn't seem right does it? I encourage you to go to a sales meeting. See what they say about this transfering of land. They will give you a song and dance story about how good a deal it is for the owners and that they should be grateful they have a new timeshare location. When in fact the "new" location is an old bunch of buildings that they will renovate again and again and again, your maintaince fees will go up and in the end someone will make alot of money and who know maybe the resort will go bankrupt again. Sorry I can't be more positive, but this has been the history of this resort.

 

[krlorenz]

dougp26364,

Please dont talk down to me. I may be naive but I am not stupid. You may be a seasoned timeshare owner but, unfortunately SBR is the only timeshare resort we own. We realize that there is money to made on these deals, but why not be honest while you are doing it. Information has been withheld from owners by the board. The board that is supposed to respresent the owners. Unfortunately there is no way for the owners to band together except for traveling to Vegas for one of those wonderful meetings they talk about. Your sacrasm does not deter me in the least.

 

[timeos2]

dougp26364,

Please dont talk down to me. I may be naive but I am not stupid. You may be a seasoned timeshare owner but, unfortunately SBR is the only timeshare resort we own. We realize that there is money to made on these deals, but why not be honest while you are doing it. Information has been withheld from owners by the board. The board that is supposed to respresent the owners. Unfortunately there is no way for the owners to band together except for traveling to Vegas for one of those wonderful meetings they talk about. Your sacrasm does not deter me in the least.

You and your fellow owners elect the Board. They are your voice. As far as I know, but you can correct me if I'm wrong, SB is under owner Board control - the developer does not control the BOD. If so you have the method to change things if you don't like the direction. Vote the Board out and elect one you feel better represents you. It can be done, it has been done and the power of a properly informed and unified owner base can defeat the most powerful interests.

You certainly have a right to all details and players. If you make official requests - in writing - for that information from the Management/Board they would be fools to deny you as then you do have a case against them. Of course you'd have to sue and cover the legal costs but it is your right.

As for your overall experience Doug does have it right. The only thing you bought, like it or not, fair or not, is what your documents state. Especially almost 20 years ago the "standards" for timeshare sales weren't even what they are today. And today buyers STILL get sold a picture of one thing and a deed/club/tust that may be another.

It sounds like you would be best served by ending your relationship with SB as an owner. It's not worth the hassles or heartache it seems to be causing you. Or band your fellow owners together to come up with another Board/plan. Simply scuttling the current plan with no back up options is not a great move IMO.

 

[krlorenz]

I find all the advice on the SBR problem very interesting. I thank all of you for your input. I would be interested in input from other SBR owners on this subject and preferably owners that have the history on how we got where we are today. Thanks again for all the advice.

 

[Sandy]

By the way,

We were all waiting for Paul's promise of "new" information. He came on this board about a month ago and he promised some additional information that would cast further doubt on the deal.

But he seems to have disappeared, at least in the past month or so. I recall asking him, in another post, to please post the specifics on the info. We never heard back from him.

His posts are here on another thread on this board.

 

[krlorenz]

Sandy are you an owner a Summer Bay Resort in Vegas or do you work for the resort in any way?

 

[janapur]

Like Sandy, I purchased SB resale weeks in speculation of the new resort at its new location. I had the pleasure of meeting Sandy, Bob, and several other "new" SB owners. Imagine my surprise to learn at the annual meeting that some owners were not thrilled with this unprecidented transition.

My situation is different than the disgruntled long-time owners. I mean no disrespect to any SB owners. More importantly, I have far less invested in the weeks I purchased on ebay than what many of these owners paid for one week.

However, I am also aware of SB's condition at the current location. If this deal does not go through, a special assessment is imminent (not to mention increased MFs) UNLESS a better deal could be made giving us a bigger/better slice of the pie. My greed tempts me to hope that this is in fact a possibility, but my common sense tells me to take the deal and RUN to the new Desert Club.

I, too, am still waiting to hear or read concrete evidence supporting the possibility of a better deal.

I have never known anyone who purchased ts hoping to make a significant profit. It is an investment in vacation, and from what I've seen of the new location vs. the current, added to the proposed plan for Harrahs, this vacation destination will trade stronger, resell higher and be enjoyed more no matter what each owner originally paid.

Jana

 

[roadtriper]

I find all the advice on the SBR problem very interesting. I thank all of you for your input. I would be interested in input from other SBR owners on this subject and preferably owners that have the history on how we got where we are today. Thanks again for all the advice.

Well I guess I need to put my .02 in here...
"How we got where we are today" well the previous developer/Mgmt. Co. "Liesure Industries" Lied through their teeth to nice folks like you, had grand plans to redevelop the resort to luxury towers. then robbed, pillaged, and plundered all the treasure. putting the whole place into Bankruptcy. the HOA Board remained solvent and determined. years of litigation, auctions etc. enter Summer Bay Mgmt. who purchased the assetts at auction. and commited millions of dollars to renovate the current mess of a resort. and a company who purchased the redevelopment rights as defined by the Bankruptcy court. and they sold those rights to a company owned by harrah's. OUR Hoa Board have spent the past 2-3 years in Negotiations with the folks at Harrah's working out the current deal. which in my opinion as an owner of 5 weeks at SBLV is a damn fair deal. I truly have empathy for you and the other folks who believed you were buying "LAND' in Las Vegas. I hold 5 deeds that describe a parcel of land as yours do, But... I don't think for a min. that I own land in las vegas. not even a sliver! I do get the use of 5 weeks at the resort for myself, friends and family. or I can exchange, rent or sell my interest. as can you! as stated previously. our units currently are worth between $500-$5000 on the resale market. most holding towards the lower end. that's just the true hard facts no matter what others have told you. the move to the Desert Club Complex will raise that value some. it will make exchanges easier, the rental value will go up, as will the resale value. but none of us are going to get rich. yup the developer will make a lot of money. as did the folks you handed your money to. see there are folks 18 years younger than you that will believe the same lies you did, and make the same mistakes you did. it's what fuels the timeshare industry. I mean no disrespect, you are in good company. Many many folks have paid way too much for something they didn't understand, or were lied to about. many of them are the folks here on TUG, and will tell you outright they got screwed on their first timeshare. but they learned to work the system and get enjoyment out of their years of happy vacations with family.

I'm curious, in the 18 years of ownership how many times have you stayed at the resort? how many owners meetings have you attended?

Just to clear up some mis-information... Summer Bay Las Vegas is a 40+ year old conglomeration of small apartment complexes. spread over a 18 acre area. it's a "Resort" in name only. don't get me wrong, I love the place. But it's a tired old complex.
Summer Bay is not ,and never was "ON THE STRIP"
We are where we are, we can't undo the past. and as much as you need to have someone to blame, IMHO The HOA Board and Summer Bay aren't the bad guys. again just my .02 RT

 

[dougp26364]

dougp26364,

Please dont talk down to me. I may be naive but I am not stupid. You may be a seasoned timeshare owner but, unfortunately SBR is the only timeshare resort we own. We realize that there is money to made on these deals, but why not be honest while you are doing it. Information has been withheld from owners by the board. The board that is supposed to respresent the owners. Unfortunately there is no way for the owners to band together except for traveling to Vegas for one of those wonderful meetings they talk about. Your sacrasm does not deter me in the least.

Not talking down and I'm writing without sarcasim. All I'm doing is telling you the truth as it is. You've either been lied to or have not gathered all the information over the years that you should have. This resort has had it's share of problems and management/developer changes. I recall being invited to attend a presentation back when it was still branded Ramada and there have been a couple of changes since then.

The resort has had it's share of problems in the past and no doubt there has been some lies and information that has not been disburssed to owners. I share similar problems with our ownership at Polo Towers in that the management company there doesn't communicate with owners very well.

Still, I have no desire to make a bad situation worse by putting myself into a position to lose everything. Something you seem more than willing to do.

When it comes right down to it, you apparently have three decisions to make and all have their outcomes.

1. go with the new proposed property. Results will be that it's going to move a little further east from it's present location, it is suppose to become a 5 star resort, 5 star should mean better trading power, and all units are supposed to be fully refurbished as no cost to the owner.

2. force the BOD to remain where it is. The resort will not be brought up to 5 star standards, you risk action by the city of Vegas itself to force an issue (if you don't think there is corruption in Vegas and that major casino's can force their way then you are naive), you risk a major special assessment to bring the resort up to decent standards (Polo Towers owners just got whacked with an SA over $1,000 for each 2 bedroom unit) and you risk a major increase in MF's should they decide to update the resort with/without a special assessment.

3. They move forward and you give up your unit for nothing. This seems like a senselss total loss to me rather than making the most of what you consider to be a bad situation.

I do not blame owners at this resort for being upset over how the resort has been managed all these years. Summer Bay has the seat now and from what I've seen of them, they seem to be about as decent and responsible of a management company as there is out there. There was an election of the BOD a few years ago with changes made to that BOD that appeared to be positive for the owners. Don't let previous BOD's and previous poor management by management companies cloud your decision over what Summer Bay and the current BOD are recommending. To my eye that appears to be exactly what you are doing and, if that's how it is, then I don't believe that any management company or BOD is going to be able to make you happy.

If that's the case then perhaps it's time to sell your ownership, cut your losses and find a timeshare with a management company and BOD that can make timesharing enjoyable again.

 

[krlorenz]

Just to clear up some mis-information, the Fountains are on a piece of land zoned as "the strip".

 

[krlorenz]

None of you newbies get it, we have been told renovations would be made before. It never happened. Why should this promise be any different than any of the rest. Remember these guys can say anything they want, and we can't do anything about it if they don't carry through with it. I may sell my ts, I may not, but it won't be because of any promises made by the corrupt bunch in Vegas.