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Starwood ups star options and points at St John

Love the WSJ changes!

The way I see it, those of us who are 5* elite owners (and 4* too) will have "better" access to WSJ. Owners with only 148,100 (or less) will have to make 'greater' vacation sacrifices (foregoing vacation(s) and banking) - whereas those of us with more star options will be able to book a week in a 2-bedroom no problem at the new star option rate. We own an EOY 2-bed at WSJ Bay Vista and I find it isn't enough.

I think it is an absolute WIN for WSJ owners who want to trade out, and for Elite owners who want to trade in.

Cheers,
Westin Owner
 
I agree with others as this devalues SO for owners at other resorts. You would think that they almost have to follow suit at other resorts and raise SO in the future?? It can also make internal exchanges within SVN less attractive. Good for WSJ owners bad for the rest of the system at this time and makes the playing field less even...
 
I see two groups of winners here. WSJ owners, and to a lesser extent, those of us who own at other Starwood mandatory properties with a lot of SOs. The real losers here are other SVN mandatory owners with a smaller number of points. There will be more availability at WSJ in the future, but the latter wont be able to visit here unless they bank their SOs. Also, people who use II stand to lose as there will be less Westin inventory (excluding WSJ) deposited by Starwood into II, since WSJ owners likely will use their new SOs to go to other Westin resorts.


cubigbird said:
I agree with others as this devalues SO for owners at other resorts. You would think that they almost have to follow suit at other resorts and raise SO in the future?? It can also make internal exchanges within SVN less attractive. Good for WSJ owners bad for the rest of the system at this time and makes the playing field less even...
Click to expand...
 
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You would think though that they are eventually going to have to modify SO at other properties as it will make it more difficult to exchange internally within SVN. It devalues the very product they are trying to sell at developer sales - less flexibility.
 
They will make adjustments with fewer II deposits, so there shouldn't be a significant impact on internal availability within SVN, IMO. I just don't see them making a lot more SOs adjustments at other resorts in the near future.

cubigbird said:
You would think though that they are eventually going to have to modify SO at other properties as it will make it more difficult to exchange internally within SVN. It devalues the very product they are trying to sell at developer sales - less flexibility.
Click to expand...
 
So then maybe we should be picking up a WSJ Plat week???
 
I just frustrates other owners like me who own Plat (and Plat Plus) at other SVN resorts. There was a reason I bought those weeks, which is the same reason other TUGgers bought those weeks. Granted I bought where I want to (and do) vacation but I want to be able to go elsewhere. I eventually will be a 5* elite but I'm not there yet - cost to retro obviously, but working on it. Congrats to WSJ owners.
 
Sounds like you were/are planning on visiting WSJ a good bit. I wouldn't worry about availability being affected too much at other Starwood resorts. May, but probably not a significant impact (may possibly affect availability at popular resorts at peak times to a small degree). Do you have to travel during peak times? As you know, any system can change at any time. If you look at what you can get using the SOs you have, your frustration level will decrease.. No question this is a big win for WSJ owners...



cubigbird said:
I just frustrates other owners like me who own Plat (and Plat Plus) at other SVN resorts. There was a reason I bought those weeks, which is the same reason other TUGgers bought those weeks. Granted I bought where I want to (and do) vacation but I want to be able to go elsewhere. I eventually will be a 5* elite but I'm not there yet - cost to retro obviously, but working on it. Congrats to WSJ owners.
Click to expand...
 
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lizap said:
. No question this is a big win for WSJ owners...
Click to expand...

Hmmm... almost afraid to put this in print, but...
not if, SVO decides to 'justifying' increasing MFs now that SOS are increased.
shhhhhh.....

The Plat+ and Plat WSJ Owners really benefited percentage-wise with the SO increase. Bastards... :D
 
DavidnRobin said:
Hmmm... almost afraid to put this in print, but...
not if, SVO decides to 'justifying' increasing MFs now that SOS are increased.
shhhhhh.....
Click to expand...

Please do not give SVO the wrong idea!!! :D
I am now regretting not picking up a platinum week when a few were made available to WSJ owners early this summer...
 
DavidnRobin said:
Hmmm... almost afraid to put this in print, but...
not if, SVO decides to 'justifying' increasing MFs now that SOS are increased.
shhhhhh.....

The Plat+ and Plat WSJ Owners really benefited percentage-wise with the SO increase. Bastards... :D
Click to expand...


David: I am sure that is where this is all headed......
 
cubigbird said:
You would think though that they are eventually going to have to modify SO at other properties as it will make it more difficult to exchange internally within SVN. It devalues the very product they are trying to sell at developer sales - less flexibility.
Click to expand...

If they increase the SO levels at other properties, that just sets the relative values back again to what they were before the WSJ increases, effectively undoing the change.

The developer sales at WSJ are going to get a "boost" by being promoted as having more SVN trading power vs. other locations (WDW?) currently available for sale.

I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes a feature when a new phase/property becomes available...
 
I don't think it will necessarily become a feature of a new phase. WSJ's SOs were out of whack with some of the other resorts, especially Hawaii.


YYJMSP said:
If they increase the SO levels at other properties, that just sets the relative values back again to what they were before the WSJ increases, effectively undoing the change.

The developer sales at WSJ are going to get a "boost" by being promoted as having more SVN trading power vs. other locations (WDW?) currently available for sale.

I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes a feature when a new phase/property becomes available...
Click to expand...
 
lizap said:
I don't think it will necessarily become a feature of a new phase. WSJ's SOs were out of whack with some of the other resorts, especially Hawaii.
Click to expand...

True, in 2015, a 2 bdrm platinum plus (in Hawaii or anywhere but WSJ) doesn't trade into a 2 bdrm platinum plus in WSJ. IMO, they should have raised the lofts to 176,700, but kept the regular 2 bdrm units 148,100 SOs. Now WSJ is out of whack! :annoyed:
 
I wonder if 176,700 will become the new 148,100. Naw...


Sent from my iPad
 
DavidnRobin said:
Hmmm... almost afraid to put this in print, but...
not if, SVO decides to 'justifying' increasing MFs now that SOS are increased.
shhhhhh.....
Click to expand...
ding ding ding, we have a winner. Seems very logical, especially after a rehab and conversion that costs $$$. But I wouldnt expect it to take effect until they sell out most of the new units. That way they can jusitfy the already high MF by saying "look at the SO, higher then all other resorts." Then, they can pull the rug out from under them like they have done at hawaii and wsj with sharp increases over the past ~decade. We call this the 1-2 punch.
 
BTW, I looked at MSC.com recently to see what my MFs were, and I noticed that they actually put a new number in the estimated fees for next year, instead of just repeating the previous year"s. This year the fees were $582. Next year's fees are projected to be $675. That's a 16% increase. :cheer:

All around the mulberry bush, the monkey chase the weasel!
 
LisaRex said:
BTW, I looked at MSC.com recently to see what my MFs were, and I noticed that they actually put a new number in the estimated fees for next year, instead of just repeating the previous year's. This year the fees were $582. Next year's fees are projected to be $675. That's a 16% increase. :cheer:
Click to expand...

Yikes! You made me take a look at mine, Lisa. I'd be unhappy with a 16% hike in MF's. Thankfully, there's no difference (yet) in projected 2014 fees for WKORV, WKORVN, or HRA. We'll see...

My guess is that WSJ MF's will be stable for a few years. Starwood has to sell the new units coming online, and would be shooting themselves in the foot if they upset current owners. WSJ owners already have some of the highest MF's in SVN.
 
Just got preliminary proposed 2014 budget for WSJ VGV - MFs appears to be slightly less than last year.
 
So, I've been considering selling my EOY SVV Bella 2 bdrm platinum (81k SOs) because my sole purpose for buying it was to have enough SOs to exchange into a 3 bdrm at WSJ. Once I sold WKORV, that plan was moot.

But I opted to keep it for two reasons. First and foremost was because I liked having SOs, and with the ability to bank, I'd have enough SOs to exchange into a 2 bdrm platinum+ unit at either WSJ or WKORV every 4 years. Since it was going to cost ~$2500 for 4 years of MFs, etc, and that's about what I was paying to own in Hawaii, and less than I'd pay to rent a 2 bdrm in WSJ, I figured that seemed like a good deal. Secondly, I'd continue to have access to II Getaways if I held onto at least one timeshare.

Then the announcement came about WSJ upping their SOs in 2015. Needless to say, I was mildly devastated because 81k x 2 is tragically just shy of the 176,700 SOs needed for a 2 bdrm in winter. And I really wanted to travel in the winter to escape the snow and cold in Ohio!

So once again, I had to consider selling my EOY odd Bella, and even put it the market for a few days. Then I started crunching some numbers and figured out that, lo and behold,176,700-81,000=95,700 SOs. And do you know what's worth 95.7k SOs? A SVV mandatory 2 bdrm L/O! I thought that that was so funny because for years we've been advising people against buying SVV 2 bdrm L/Os worth 95,700 SOs, because that number was "clunky." Turns out it's not clunky at all! Because guess what else? 81,000 +81,000+95,700 = 257,700, which is the number needed for a 3 bdrm at WSJ!

So.....I took my EOY Bella unit off the market, and just today closed on a deal to purchase an SVV Key West 2 bdrm L/O worth...(drum roll, please) 95.7k SOs! So for $6k to purchase the 2 VOIs + MFs of ~$2200 per year, with my banked 81k 2013 Bella SOs, in 2015 I'll have enough SOs to alternate between WSJ in a 3 bdrm, and 2 weeks at WKORV every odd year.

Woot! :banana:

(Now watch them up the SOs for WKORV!)
 
For all of those MFs spent for the SOs - would it be cheaper to rent?
 
DavidnRobin said:
For all of those MFs spent for the SOs - would it be cheaper to rent?
Click to expand...

Could you stay in a 3BR WSJ in winter for less than $2200? I don't think you could get 14 nights in a 2BR in Maui in winter for that or anywhere close?
 
dioxide45 said:
Could you stay in a 3BR WSJ in winter for less than $2200? I don't think you could get 14 nights in a 2BR in Maui in winter for that or anywhere close?
Click to expand...

I was asking LR what the total MFs and banking/etc costs for the 3 VOIs mentioned are? you are saying they are only $2200? Seems low like low MFs/etc for 3 VOIs
 
DavidnRobin said:
I was asking LR what the total MFs and banking/etc costs for the 3 VOIs mentioned are? you are saying they are only $2200? Seems low like low MFs/etc for 3 VOIs
Click to expand...

Yes, that would be a steal! I'd be paying $2200 per year (~$1500 for KW and ~$700 for Bella (including MFs), but only traveling every other year (odd years). So if you add in the $99 banking fee, that puts me at $4500. The cheapest 3 bdrm I can find on Redweek is $4500, but the vast majority are listed at $5-6k. If I got a 3 bdrm, I'd be traveling with 2 other couples and they'd each be paying 1/3, reducing my personal expenditure to $1500. I'm fine with that.

A few Maui 2 bdrms are going for $2500, but most are listed for $3000-3500k. I'll have enough SOs for a 2 week stay in a 2 bdrm for $4500. $2250 a week works for me.

So my plan, as of today, is to travel to WSJ in 2015 and WKORV in 2017. Hopefully the new phase will make exchanging even easier. If I can't get a 3 bdrm, I'm confident that I can get at least a 2 bdrm.

The reason I went with SOs vs renting is for control. With SOs, I can reserve a week at 8 months and immediately check for award flights. If I can't find any, I can release the week without penalty and try again later. 8 months is the perfect time to try and coordinate it.

And, of course, I can still use Getaways. With my oldest graduating from college in December and my youngest 2 years away, we'll be able to travel in late spring and fall.
 
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