[Starwood] question regarding buying Timeshares on ebay vs. a rep from the resort

[LisaRex]

so what is the true benefit of owning a timeshare?

For me, it was knowing that the quality of the place was going to be up to par. I rented a lot of units on Maui and each time I did (and brought friends), I'd stress out about it. Buying at the Westin meant that I knew ahead of time exactly what I'd be getting.

Of course, I could accomplish the same thing renting at the Westin. Hindsight and all that.

 

[C30NY]

I have been timesharing for nearly 30 years now...starting when my father purchased a very expensive Timeshare in Key West when I was very young (coincidentally the only one he ever got his "investment" back on) and I believe I am now doing it for the same reason he did, it can be substantially cheaper for my family and provide better accommodations than the cost and quality of a hotel room. There are savings to be had when you prepare some or all of your own meals in the room (some do and some don't, I eat out at dinner but eat in the rest of the time unless we are away from the unit). Try to find a hotel room or same unit at any of these places for the same price many of us pay in MF's, exchange costs and II/RCI memberships. I dont think I have found an instance where it will be less (unless you find a last minute deal or someone just looking to get something back for their week rather than it being unused). As Lisa also said...you know what you are getting when you trade or stay within a network (Starwood or Marriott for example). Its also great for us because we do travel many times a year (at least two full weeks) and know what the cost is going to be upfront for the unit. If money is a little tight, we may not fly somewhere but rather go somewhere local in peak season (like the Adirondacks, New England, cape cod).

I know some people who dont own but prefer to rent. This way they arent committed to yearly expenses and can travel as they see fit. We commit because we are committed to travel. Its easier for us.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Hooked On Timeshares.

so what is the true benefit of owning a timeshare?

for those who have their timeshare for a long time, do you see a true benefit? obviously you're paying for your stay with the MF so it's not really free and the idea of deeded TS really means nothing if you can only stay there once a week.

By us, the main benefit is spacious & luxurious vacation accommodations at Motel 6 & Super 8 rates.

Not sure what you're getting at in typing you can only stay there once a week.

One week of use per year is standard -- also, 1 week every 2 years at biennial timeshares & a week just once every 3 years at triennials.

Lock-off timeshares make it possible to take 2 weeks of timeshare vacation for 1 maintenance fee payment. Reserve the "A" unit for now & save the adjoining "B" unit for later in the year.

The deeded feature means you can keep on using your timeshare week year after year (or biennially or triennially, as the case may be), just so long as you make your maintenance fee payments. But with timeshares, you're getting a vacation condo for your family, unlike the "Four Bs" that are all you get with a hotel (Bed, Bath, Bible, Bill).

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[DavidnRobin]

so what is the true benefit of owning a timeshare?

for those who have their timeshare for a long time, do you see a true benefit? obviously you're paying for your stay with the MF so it's not really free and the idea of deeded TS really means nothing if you can only stay there once a week.

we love our SVO timeshares and resorts (but not so much the MFs) - but to make the most of TSing you really need to be able to plan your vacations in advance (and be able to afford to vacation) - it is hard to make TSing useful if you are a last minute traveler - unless you are savvy and rent from those owners that couldn't use their TS... (and know which are the good TS for your vacation needs).

write off the explorer package as a lesson learned - at least you didn't pay full freight - as Alan calls it...

if you decide on a TS - buy your 1st (if not all) using the resale market. there is a lot of excellent value out there - the secret is spending the time/effort in finding it.

not sure I know what you mean by... "and the idea of deeded TS really means nothing if you can only stay there once a week." it means exactly what it is - you own a deeded week (1/523 of a year) that can be resold - you can't resale a week in hotel room - of course that also puts you on the hook for MFs and special assessments and taxes...

 

[cruzad3r]

thanks to all who answered the "benefits" question.

As for those who answered the orignial question of buying TS on ebay vs. from a developer, i think the bottom line is to buy from resale but at the same time do your best to investigate and make sure it's legit. But i guess i'm don't totally understand the true meaing of buying resale ( in term of total package benefits) other than it's cheaper than buying from a developer. Seeing that i still have to pay the MF and all the MISC fees and not being able to convert to Starpoints or transfer Staroption unless it's a mandatory unit, i'm not sure if that's really good for long term usage. I'm assuming that if i don't end up using my deeded week, i can still rent it out unless this is a wrong assumption. This begs the question of what exactly is involved and the owner rights when buying from resale. If people can chime in on this, i think that's super helpful.

thanks folks, this has been really helpful!

 

[YYJMSP]

thanks to all who answered the "benefits" question.

As for those who answered the orignial question of buying TS on ebay vs. from a developer, i think the bottom line is to buy from resale but at the same time do your best to investigate and make sure it's legit. But i guess i'm don't totally understand the true meaing of buying resale ( in term of total package benefits) other than it's cheaper than buying from a developer. Seeing that i still have to pay the MF and all the MISC fees and not being able to convert to Starpoints or transfer Staroption unless it's a mandatory unit, i'm not sure if that's really good for long term usage. I'm assuming that if i don't end up using my deeded week, i can still rent it out unless this is a wrong assumption. This begs the question of what exactly is involved and the owner rights when buying from resale. If people can chime in on this, i think that's super helpful.

thanks folks, this has been really helpful!

Probably an overly simplified answer, but here goes.

Buying a mandatory resale is the same as buying from the developer, with the exception of:

- you lose the ability to convert your ownership to SPG points
- your StarOptions do not count towards SVN Elite membership
- you save $20K

Buying a voluntary resale is a completely different story, as you also lose the StarOptions/ability to trade within SVN, leaving you with using your ownership within the season/unit type at the property you own, or exchanging through an external company.

 

[DeniseM]

I'm assuming that if i don't end up using my deeded week, i can still rent it out unless this is a wrong assumption.

Trading your timeshare with Starwood is not the only game in town. You can still trade a voluntary timeshare, you just use an outside exchange company like Interval International or RCI.

Starwood owners have priority for Starwood trades with Interval, so you can easily trade your week for just about any Starwood resort, except school holidays, Westin St. John, and Harborside - those a tougher trades.

For more info. about buying a cheap resale and trading in II, read this current thread about buying at SDO - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155981

Also, have you had a chance to read any of the info. stickies at the top of this forum - those will help, too.

 

[vacationtime1]

I'm assuming that if i don't end up using my deeded week, i can still rent it out unless this is a wrong assumption.

Yes. This is the same whether the resort is voluntary or mandatory and the same whether you purchased it from Starwood or resale.

 

[AwayWeGo]

You Can Rent Out Your Timeshare Week If -- IF -- Your Fees Are All Paid Up.

I'm assuming that if i don't end up using my deeded week, i can still rent it out unless this is a wrong assumption.

Correct assumption, just so your maintenance fees are all paid up -- same as when you use your week yourself or deposit it for exchange with I-I or RCI or some other week-swap company.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[cruzad3r]

so yes, i've read all the FAQ and owner resource as well as the bulletin that was recently revised. That's how i know these terms and some of the concepts otherwise my posts wouldn't make any sense

i truly think i can leverage the explorer package to make the most of my potential buy with the rep. unless the deal is extremely ridiculous then i'll just use it without buying.

unless i haven't found it, i don't think the forum has a collective thread where it talks about the highs and lows of buying resale vs. from the rep. unless there aren't much more than what already discussed here, i really think it'll be helpful for any new comer to see the clear distinction between the two purchases.

if such thread does exist, please post link here. otherwise, i hope we can add more useful information so it can help other users.

 

[Henry M.]

Assuming you buy a mandatory unit, the bottom line is that you can't convert to Starpoints when you buy resale. Resale weeks also don't count towards Elite status. On the other hand, you can save about half or more of the initial purchase price.

If you're just starting out, and intend to buy multiple weeks, the most cost effective way would be to first buy resale and then requalify them by buying from the developer. If you don't intend to own several weeks, just enjoy the savings of buying resale. You can buy a lot of hotel nights with the money you save.

If money is no object, then the conversion to Starpoints does give you some flexibility in how you use your weeks, especially if you travel to the nicer Starwood locations.

 

[cruzad3r]

so what do people think is a good price buying a 2br lock off from SVR or a 2br lock off from SVV from the developer?

i do want the ability to convert to SP but more important, i want the ability to trade for international usage. I think with these two requirements, it's best to buy from the developer. is that true?

and money is always an object but i like to think of it as a total package; if that makes sense to anyone

 

[VacationForever]

Correct assumption, just so your maintenance fees are all paid up -- same as when you use your week yourself or deposit it for exchange with I-I or RCI or some other week-swap company.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

To add clarity to this response, you are not allowed to rent/sell an II or RCI traded week.

 

[vacationtime1]

unless i haven't found it, i don't think the forum has a collective thread where it talks about the highs and lows of buying resale vs. from the rep. unless there aren't much more than what already discussed here, i really think it'll be helpful for any new comer to see the clear distinction between the two purchases.

The benefit of buying resale vs. developer is price, pure and simple. An enormous difference in price. For a 2bd Kierland platinum (148,100 SO's), figure $15,000 vs. about $35,000. For Vistana Villages, $3,000 vs. $2x,000. These examples are for mandatory Starwood units with transferable SO's. For Starwood voluntary timeshares, the difference is even greater (one can buy an SDO unit for a dollar for which the original purchaser paid > $10,000).

The differences (in the Starwood system): the ability to convert into hotel points (StarPoints), qualification for elite status, and non-transferable StarOptions. It just isn't worth it except for very specific, extraordinary situations.

 

[YYJMSP]

so what do people think is a good price buying a 2br lock off from SVR or a 2br lock off from SVV from the developer?

i do want the ability to convert to SP but more important, i want the ability to trade for international usage. I think with these two requirements, it's best to buy from the developer. is that true?

and money is always an object but i like to think of it as a total package; if that makes sense to anyone

Take in to consideration that a 2BR L/O SVR unit only converts to ~44K SPG points, and a 2BR L/O SVV unit converts to between ~35K and ~55K SPG points (depending on season).

That would only get you like 4 or 5 nights at a SPG5 or SPG4 (i.e. "nicer") property.

The annual MFs on those units are pretty close to what you'd pay for just renting the hotel rooms directly, so it's probably not worth it to pay an extra $20K up-front for a developer unit at those properties for the purposes of SPG conversion...

 

[BLUE AYES]

2 BD L/O at SVV is 95,700 Options. BTW my 2 BD L/O at SVV Key West cost me around 25,000 (many years ago, dont remember exact price) my 2 BD at Bella resale with 81,000 options cost me approx. 3,000 two to three years ago and now can be had for less than 2,000.

 

[LisaRex]

i do want the ability to convert to SP but more important, i want the ability to trade for international usage. I think with these two requirements, it's best to buy from the developer. is that true?

No, I think you were wooed by the salesman and are trying to convince yourself that you should pay thousands of dollars more than the thing is worth.

It seems that you are a bit star struck by StarPoints (SPs). So, my first piece of advice (no matter what you decide) is to sign up for an SPG Amex, if you haven't already. For $65 a year, you can earn 1 StarPoint for every dollar you charge to the card + 1 StarPoint for every dollar charged at Starwood properties. Once you reach $30,000 spending in one calendar year, you're automatically upgraded to gold SPG status for one year. Free (or nearly free) SPs! Great deal.

My second piece of advice is that if you plan to travel internationally and can really get your bang for each StarPoint, consider just purchasing SPs when they go on sale each December. Normally they retail for 3.5 cents per SP, but in December they've been discounting them 20% to 2.8 cents. If you can beat that (and many people can in Europe), then go ahead and buy them when they're on sale. You are limited to 20,000 SPs per person, but if you have a spouse, you can gift 20,000 to her and then transfer her points to your account as needed. For $1120 you can buy 40,000 SPs per year -- no long term commitment or $20,000 investment required.

BEST CASE scenario if you plunk down $20k for a timeshare from the developer is 2.8 cents per dollar, and that is on the condition that MFs don't increase. (Ha!)

Oh, and here are some things your salesman might not have told you:

1) SPs earned by SVO conversion (or bonus SPs given to incentivize you to buy a timeshare from the developer) expire in 6 years.

2) SVO members may only convert their vacation ownership interest(s) into Starpoints in non-consecutive use years.

3) All maintenance fees, taxes and SVN membership fees are required to be paid in full prior to conversion of the vacation ownership interest into Starpoints.

4) The SP conversion rate is never adjusted. You'll always get the same number of SPs no matter if MFs increase (and they will) or if Starwood increases the number of SPs needed per night. So your rate of return will be diminished over time.

5) Many resorts have already reached the point where their conversion rate is worse than what you can buy from SPG.com on sale. SVR is at the point already. SVV is very close.

Finally, if you really, really want to buy from the developer, then do yourself a favor and learn about requalifying. That will mean buying a resale unit FIRST and then buying from the developer SECOND.

Good luck to you!

 

[DeniseM]

i do want the ability to convert to SP but more important, i want the ability to trade for international usage. I think with these two requirements, it's best to buy from the developer. is that true?

What do you mean by "trading for international usage?"

I think you have been dazzled by the sales presentation - I strongly recommend that you rescind, do your own homework independently, and then decide if you are going to buy resale or from the developer. There is no good reason to rush into a developer purchase, and many, many reasons not to.

More info. about rescinding - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74493

 

[jarta]

Respectfully, there are some different opinions about what LisaRex says:

"It seems that you are a bit star struck by StarPoints (SPs). So, my first piece of advice (no matter what you decide) is to sign up for an SPG Amex, if you haven't already. For $65 a year, you can earn 1 StarPoint for every dollar you charge to the card + 1 StarPoint for every dollar charged at Starwood properties. Once you reach $30,000 spending in one calendar year, you're automatically upgraded to gold SPG status for one year. Free (or nearly free) SPs! Great deal.

My second piece of advice is that if you plan to travel internationally and can really get your bang for each StarPoint, consider just purchasing SPs when they go on sale each December. Normally they retail for 3.5 cents per SP, but in December they've been discounting them 20% to 2.8 cents. If you buy a Platinum 2-br Lagunamar, the 2011 MF is $1,240 and the Staroptions can be converted into 79,200 Starpoints by 4* and 5* due to 10% bonus (and there is no conversion fee). That's 1.56 cents, not 2.8 cents.If you can beat that (and many people can in Europe), then go ahead and buy them when they're on sale. You are limited to 20,000 SPs per person, but if you have a spouse, you can gift 20,000 to her and then transfer her points to your account as needed. For $1120 you can buy 40,000 SPs per year -- no long term commitment or $20,000 investment required.

BEST CASE scenario if you plunk down $20k for a timeshare from the developer is 2.8 cents per dollar, and that is on the condition that MFs don't increase. (Ha!)

Oh, and here are some things your salesman might not have told you:

1) SPs earned by SVO conversion (or bonus SPs given to incentivize you to buy a timeshare from the developer) expire in 6 years. Absolutely true, but 6 years is a lot of time.

2) SVO members may only convert their vacation ownership interest(s) into Starpoints in non-consecutive use years. Not so for 4* and 5* Elites. They can convert each year and up to October 1 each year without a conversion fee.

3) All maintenance fees, taxes and SVN membership fees are required to be paid in full prior to conversion of the vacation ownership interest into Starpoints.. If you can convert until October 1 of the use year and the MF is due at the beginning of the use year, is that really a big problem? The same MF would have to be current to use the property during the use year.

4) The SP conversion rate is never adjusted. You'll always get the same number of SPs no matter if MFs increase (and they will) or if Starwood increases the number of SPs needed per night. So your rate of return will be diminished over time. True. And hotel pricing will also increase over time.

However, spending the money to get to 4* or 5* is not for everyone. Cost to acquire status and take all those vacations must be taken into account. Plus, you must do you DD to know when and how to maximize the value of converting to Starpoints (and other conversions to air miles).

5) Many resorts have already reached the point where their conversion rate is worse than what you can buy from SPG.com on sale. SVR is at the point already. SVV is very close. True, so don't buy at those resorts. Do your DD. Platinum WKV and Lagunamar provide conversion ratios well below the sale price - 2.8 cents. Platinum Hawaii, WSJ and Harborside max out at double their cost per Starpoint and well above the sale price cost. So, use your head, don't buy there to do a conversion to Starpoints.

 

[fishingguy]

you are the only one who can decide

cruzad3r wrote:

...and money is always an object but i like to think of it as a total package; if that makes sense to anyone

You've got some excellent input from several well respected and Sheraton experienced TUGgers; but in the end only you will be able to decide if the 8 to 10x cost in buying from the developer [for the whole package] is worth it. After watching this topic unfold from the original post; it almost seems that you are still unsure of your conviction, are hell-bent on proceeding anyway, or are just 'beating a dead horse' for whatever reason. [I apologize ahead of time, if I'm wrong in this, but I don't mean to ruffle any feathers.]

We hear over and over again, about people who attend a sales presentation, only to find out later that what they were told is not correct, they got into something that wasn't suited to their specific needs, and/or they never really understood what they were buying. It's a known fact that sales reps will often tell you whatever it takes to get you buy, and that includes:
- glossing over important limitations,
- deliberately not acknowledging resale purchases, and what your ownership will be worth should you decide to sell it later,
- not covering specifically how to go about using your ownership to get the most from it,
- hyping the possibility of renting/exchanging into a market that is difficult right now or where inventory is limited,
- and yes, even deliberately stretching the truth.

In the end, the allure and pretty package is just to difficult from some to resist, and some have found that buyers remorse is even more difficult to admit. But then again, money isn't everything. ...just some thoughts.

 

[YYJMSP]

2 BD L/O at SVV is 95,700 Options. BTW my 2 BD L/O at SVV Key West cost me around 25,000 (many years ago, dont remember exact price) my 2 BD at Bella resale with 81,000 options cost me approx. 3,000 two to three years ago and now can be had for less than 2,000.

That's 95,700 StarOptions (timeshare currency), which converts to 56,000 StarPoints (hotel currency).

While the StarOptions are more than enough to get a week in a larger 1BR in any SVN property at any time in theory, it won't get you anywhere near that on the hotel side.

IMHO, the least costly comparable hotels are the SPG4 or SPG5 level properties, and a regular room would run you 60,000 to 72,000 StarPoints for a week.

That regular room is not comparable to the SVN units. A standard hotel suite (semi comparable to the SVN rooms) would run you double the StarPoints.

And that's still only a 1BR. You had to convert your entire 2BR villa to get that...

 

[LisaRex]

[/I] If you buy a Platinum 2-br Lagunamar, the 2011 MF is $1,240 and the Staroptions can be converted into 79,200 Starpoints by 4* and 5* due to 10% bonus (and there is no conversion fee). That's 1.56 cents, not 2.8 cents.

I was using SVV/SVR for comparison purposes because that is what he mentioned he was targeting. Bringing 4 and 5* benefits (such as 10% bonus in SP conversion, the ability to convert every year) into the discussion is not relevant to the OPer because it's his first Starwood purchase.

Besides, if he does want to become 4/5*, then it makes even more sense for him to purchase resale first and developer second.

However, you do bring up a good point, and that is if the OPer is bedazzled by SPs, units other than SVV/SVR can offer him better SP:$ ratios.

 

[jarta]

Purchasing resale first is always a good idea. Do not jump into the pool without testing the temperature. ... eom

 

[cruzad3r]

you guys have no idea how appreciated i am right now with all of these ideas.

 

[DeniseM]

Can you please clarify what you meant by: "but more important, i want the ability to trade for international usage."

Thanks!