SPG Hotel Category “changes” (aka increases) on Mar 4, 2008

[nodge]

Hi Gang,

I suspect we all just received the same email from Starwood alerting us of category “changes” (aka increases) to some Starwood hotels. Check out this link for a complete listing of which hotels will be “changing” (aka increasing) their category level, thereby “changing” (aka increasing) the number of StarPoints required for a stay.

OK, OK, technically they can be considered "changes" instead of "increases," because even though over 200 hotels did in fact INCREASE their category level, at least 6 have LOWERED their category level. This, of course, is great news for all you Four Points by Sheraton Chambersburg (Pennsylvania - Cat 2 to Cat 1) and Sheraton Presidente San Salvador (El Salvador, Cat 3 to Cat 2) fans.

On the other hand, both the Westin St. John (Virgin Islands) and the W New York are increasing from Category 5 to Category 6 on Mar 4, 2008.

One bright spot is that they have lowered the Princeville Resort (Kauai) from a Cat 6 to a Cat 5.

Book your SPG stays before March 4, 2008 to get the original StarPoint rates for these hotels (or if you are looking forward to your Chambersburg stay, hold off until after Mar 4th to book it . . . if you can wait that long).

FYI,
-nodge

PS: The above link displays the CAT 1 hotels. Use the drop down box in the upper right corner of the window that opens to view other categories, or click below for each list:

Category 1 Hotels
Category 2 Hotels
Category 3 Hotels
Category 4 Hotels
Category 5 Hotels
Cateogry 6 Hotels
Cateogry 7 Hotels

 

[grgs]

Nodge,

Thanks for the heads up. Always good to be warned of upcoming category changes.

Glorian

 

[Transit]

The fat lady is singing

 

[mindy35]

OK......so here's my question...

If the cost of Starwood hotel rooms is increasing via points required to redeem them, shouldn't that make your turned in SVO unit converted to Starpoints be worth more too?

I know that converting to SPG points is the least profitable option for the use of your TS but it is part of the appeal in the initial sales pitch. "You are buying into Starwood Properties network worldwide."

Doesn't de-valuating the worth of converted starwood points make this option useless? Am I dreaming to think they would offer a raise in each SVO unit's SPG worth or do you think would that only apply to future purchases?

 

[Transit]

OK......so here's my question...

If the cost of Starwood hotel rooms is increasing via points required to redeem them, shouldn't that make your turned in SVO unit converted to Starpoints be worth more too?
IT WOULD BE THE RIGHT TO DO.... THEY DON"T DO IT
I know that converting to SPG points is the least profitable option for the use of your TS but it is part of the appeal in the initial sales pitch. "You are buying into Starwood Properties network worldwide." A WHITE LIE
Doesn't de-valuating the worth of converted starwood points make this option useless? YES Am I dreaming to think they would offer a raise in each SVO unit's SPG worth or do you think would that only apply to future purchases?

THEY SHOULD

 

[Transit]

OK......so here's my question...

If the cost of Starwood hotel rooms is increasing via points required to redeem them, shouldn't that make your turned in SVO unit converted to Starpoints be worth more too?
IT WOULD BE THE RIGHT TO DO.... THEY DON"T DO IT
I know that converting to SPG points is the least profitable option for the use of your TS but it is part of the appeal in the initial sales pitch. "You are buying into Starwood Properties network worldwide." A WHITE LIE
Doesn't de-valuating the worth of converted starwood points make this option useless? YES Am I dreaming to think they would offer a raise in each SVO unit's SPG worth or do you think would that only apply to future purchases?THEY SHOULD

I can't f@#$%*g believe there doing another devaluation so soon !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DeniseM]

Since I have been an SPG member, it's happened every year about this time...

 

[DavidnRobin]

How far in advance can you make hotel reservations via SPG. I am trying to figure out whether we should reserve in Europe for late-Aug/early-Sept 2009.

 

[LisaRex]

How far in advance can you make hotel reservations via SPG. I am trying to figure out whether we should reserve in Europe for late-Aug/early-Sept 2009.

I don't think you can book farther than 11 months out.

 

[DavidnRobin]

I don't think you can book farther than 11 months out.

I thought it was more like 18 months, but wanted to check.

 

[calgarygary]

OK......so here's my question...

If the cost of Starwood hotel rooms is increasing via points required to redeem them, shouldn't that make your turned in SVO unit converted to Starpoints be worth more too?

I know that converting to SPG points is the least profitable option for the use of your TS but it is part of the appeal in the initial sales pitch. "You are buying into Starwood Properties network worldwide."

Doesn't de-valuating the worth of converted starwood points make this option useless? Am I dreaming to think they would offer a raise in each SVO unit's SPG worth or do you think would that only apply to future purchases?

Sorry to say but yes, you are dreaming to think that they will raise a unit's spg worth. It is a common complaint that I have seen here, Starwood's total disregard for current owners and their complete willingness to lie about the value of converting to spg points.


On a personal note - nodge I'm starting to view you as the grim reaper. Whenever I see a thread on the Starwood boards started by you I first think, what new method of @#@# us owners has nodge uncovered.

 

[tomandrobin]

I can't f@#$%*g believe there doing another devaluation so soon !!!!!!!!!!!

What he said!

Wow, back to back bad news! What's next elimination of the 5* elite status?

 

[grgs]

I used to think that at some point Starwood would raise the amount of StarPoints they would give owners of converting their weeks, but now I'm not so sure. I understand the need for them to change categories as time goes on, but it would be logical to assume that the rate owners would receive would also go up. If nothing else, it will make it harder for Starwood to sell this as a positive feature of ownership.

Hilton seems to understand this:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62075&highlight=hhonors

Glorian

 

[tomandrobin]

Its kind of like the AMT tax, there was never any factors built into the system to account for inflation!

 

[SDKath]

At this rate, I don't see me EVER requal'ing anything. Just keep buying resale on eBay for less than $2000 and trade it into Starwood properties anyway through II.

Kath

 

[Catazog]

How far in advance can you make hotel reservations via SPG. I am trying to figure out whether we should reserve in Europe for late-Aug/early-Sept 2009.

It seems to depend on the hotel. We have made reservations about 11 months out (the lead time for reserving frequent flyer miles) at some European hotels, but others did not have availability in their system so far out. I'd just try and make a reservation on spg.com and see what happens. If it shows no availablity for any day in a certain month, then I call Starwood and ask them to find out if I can book a room yet.

Dee Dee

 

[formerhater]

It will be 13 months between devals which is more than we used to get (used to be around Jan 1 every year) so let's bring the f-bombs down a few notches. I consider myself lucky for being warned so I can plan accordingly.

As for the booking window, it's up to 18 months, but it all depends on how far out the property has loaded their rate plans. I'm planning a trip for March 09 and the hotel I'm looking at does not have rate plans loaded which means no redemption, but I was able to book a C&P award. That hotel will be changing categories (rightfully so in my opinion) so I'm happy I'm getting in at the lower rate.

 

[Transit]

It will be 13 months between devals which is more than we used to get (used to be around Jan 1 every year) so let's bring the f-bombs down a few notches. I consider myself lucky for being warned so I can plan accordingly.

As for the booking window, it's up to 18 months, but it all depends on how far out the property has loaded their rate plans. I'm planning a trip for March 09 and the hotel I'm looking at does not have rate plans loaded which means no redemption, but I was able to book a C&P award. That hotel will be changing categories (rightfully so in my opinion) so I'm happy I'm getting in at the lower rate.

"SVO has more than 25 timeshare resorts either open or under development, and in 2007 achieved revenues of US$1 billion from its SVO operations".
I'm not feeling so lucky today. Went back a few hundred posts and still couldn't find anything to make Starwood owners feel lucky.

 

[formerhater]

"SVO has more than 25 timeshare resorts either open or under development, and in 2007 achieved revenues of US$1 billion from its SVO operations".
I'm not feeling so lucky today. Went back a few hundred posts and still couldn't find anything to make Starwood owners feel lucky.

My point is, they could have sprung this on you without any notice and no opportunity to book at current rates.

 

[stevens397]

I wrote this on another thread but here goes again. Wrote to Starwood many months ago to complain about the fact the point redemption requirements go up but they never increase the Starpoint values. I told them they are giving people fewer and fewer reasons to purchase from the developer. I got a BS answer that they were thinking about it. Wrote back twice over the next four months to complain that i had not received a substantive answer. The first time they said they were still thinking about it, the second it was, basically, tough luck.

I've got my Starwood timeshare and I'm happy with it and the trades. The new ones are going for what I consider to be ridiculously high amounts. We're pulling out of the game and will buy a vacation home in Florida in the next year or so (my wife retires as a teacher in two years). I'll go when I want without worrying about being able to make a reservation. I'll use or trade my Starwood, Marriott and Manhattan Club. But I won't pay these rates and I won't deal with a company that continually devalues it's programs while charging more and more for the privilege!

 

[dss]

I was one of the first to tour pre-construction for WKORV, and as a longtime business traveler, I am all too familiar with devaluation and that was one of the first questions I asked our rep. He gave me this stunned look like he could barely get his arms around the question, let alone provide me with an answer of substance. I have asked it every time I have done an owner tour now and continue to get weak answers at best. SVO seems to be in denial that they can go on building wonderful properties, create a marketing tie-in to SPG, and the market will lap it up. Well as the economy and housing market turns, I think they are in for a rough ride unless they start taking their customer issues seriously.

As for SPG, Hotels move up/down in categories based on the average room rate over the previous year. It's a reasonable process for the most part as that is the trade off for no applying inventory controls and/or blackout dates like most other programs. Unfortunately SVO seems to have NEVER CONSIDERED this would negatively impact their timeshare owners. I seriously think this was simply not factored into SVOs original business plan and they are going to hold off as long as possible to make the adjustment. I think the AMT analogy was apt. The more people that bring this up as a problem in conversation with SVO, especially sales and management, the better the chance of them taking positive action.

 

[ketamine]

Couln't care less

The more people that bring this up as a problem in conversation with SVO, especially sales and management, the better the chance of them taking positive action.

That, to me, is key, dss.

My anger toward SVO grows each year having discovered TUG only after 3 developer purchases... all done for the wrong reasons. With each devaluation I feel more ripped off.

If we all consistently expressed our anger and maybe took it to a bigger circle outside of TUG maybe we would get attention and results. My view has been and continues to be they DO NOT CARE !!
Does anyone at Starwood read this forum??

 

[skim118]

Westin St John

I can at least understand the category changes in Europe & Asia and partially accept Starwood's US $ weakness as an excuse; we have a 6 week trip planned to Europe & Asia this summer and we have used >150,000 Starpoints in Hotel bookings( award nites & Cash & Points nites when available).

Every Hotel we are booked in has moved up a category and using Starpoints would still be a viable option given the cash hotel rates in Europe/Asia for our future trips(not that we have any Starpoints left anymore )

We visited WSJ hotel when it was a Cat 4 at 10,000 Starpoints/night. As a Cat 6 and 25,000 Starpoints/night we have been priced out and there is no currency excuse for it either -- just greed :annoyed:

Resale WSJ timeshare units are a steal at current prices and we would love to buy them if not for the long travel time from SF.

 

[skim118]

I thought it was more like 18 months, but wanted to check.

It is 18 months but in some cases if the rates are not "loaded in the system" it cannot be done online. We have had better luck making award reservations by phone in such conditions. After making numerous award reservations recently I have nothing but praise for the SPG Gold agents.

 

[nodge]

we have a 6 week trip planned to Europe & Asia this summer and we have used >150,000 Starpoints in Hotel bookings( award nites & Cash & Points nites when available).

Hey skim118,

Six weeks in Europe this summer staying mostly in Starwood hotels eh? Nice.

If you aren't already a SPG Platinum member, I'd consider becoming one by then. I'm told that SPG Platinum benefits in Europe are well worth the price of admission. Here is a link that discusses a current promotion to more-or-less buy a two year SPG Platinum membership (and establish quite the collection of those little bottles of shampoo) for around $1100.

Have fun, and oh yeah in order to stay on topic here:

SPG hotel StarPoint devaluations without an associated increase in SVN owner StarPoint conversion amounts is bad. Very Bad.

-nodge