Skydive Kauai Plane Crash

[slip]

Unfortunately, there was a plane crash yesterday and the instructor that my wife was with in February was one of the victims in the crash. She's pretty shocked right now. He was only 26, the same age as our son.

http://thegardenisland.com/news/local/an-incredibly-sad-day/article_3fd06377-77ef-53de-9910-30561ce58749.html?mode=jqm

 

[taterhed]

I wondered.


risky business. Sorry for the sad news.

 

[DeniseM]

When I heard about that, I thought of you, too.

 

[slip]

It may have hit DW a little harder because we're on an exchange right now and I brought my FireTVstick and all our pictures are on there. We were showing the skydive pictures to our daughter and I found out a few minutes later when they came back from getting ice cream. So she found out about 15 minutes after watching the video and looking at the pictures. She's been thinking about it all day.

She always said she wouldn't bungee jump so I don't think there's much stuff like that, that she hasn't done already. So maybe the dare devil stuff may be done.

 

[DaveNV]

Jeff, that's so sad to hear. I immediately wondered if it was the same outfit she went with.

Dave

 

[bjones9942]

As someone who loves to skydive, accidents like this have special impact. Let me say though, that skydiving is safer than driving - and this was a plane accident, not a skydiving accident. Not that it isn't just as tragic.

 

[Henry M.]

According to the Hawaii State Department of Health, motor vehicle crashes are the 4th leading cause of unintentional fatal injuries to Hawaii residents and average 87 deaths per year (counting cars and motorcycles together). The leading cause of unintentional fatal injuries in Hawaii are falls, averaging 108/yr. There are 159 suicides/year. There are far fewer aviation-related deaths. They don't even make it into the list of leading causes of death or accidents. They do cause bigger headlines, since they are still fairly rare.

 

[tompalm]

As someone who loves to skydive, accidents like this have special impact. Let me say though, that skydiving is safer than driving - and this was a plane accident, not a skydiving accident. Not that it isn't just as tragic.

Five people in a Cessena 182. I believe that aircraft was made for four people and was overloaded. Even if that plane had taken 5 people many times before, the weight might have been too much or too far aft on this trip. From the wreckage, it looks like the plane did not have forward speed and it came straight down on impact. It will be interesting to see what comes out of the accident report. Anyone that goes up in the air on these skydiving runs should think twice before jumping in a full plane. If the accident was caused by engine failure, the pilot should have been able to maintain forward speed and glided safely to water or land. Either way, the skydivers were victims. I hope that company had a lot of insurance.

 

[bjones9942]

That would be a question for jump pilots - remember, there typically aren't seats in a plane used for jumps other than the pilot's, nor is there luggage other than the chutes and harnesses. There are also weight restrictions on the skydivers. So the net effect of one more body, against the reduction in other areas, may have evened things out. Again though, this was a plane accident, not a skydiving accident. Blame will fall where the FAA determines.

Five people in a Cessena 182. I believe that aircraft was made for four people and was overloaded. Even if that plane had taken 5 people many times before, the weight might have been too much or too far aft on this trip. From the wreckage, it looks like the plane did not have forward speed and it came straight down on impact. It will be interesting to see what comes out of the accident report. Anyone that goes up in the air on these skydiving runs should think twice before jumping in a full plane. If the accident was caused by engine failure, the pilot should have been able to maintain forward speed and glided safely to water or land. Either way, the skydivers were victims. I hope that company had a lot of insurance.

 

[SmithOp]

Eyewitness reports on Hawaii TV reported the engine sputtered then died on takeoff.


Sent from my iPad Mini 4 using Tapatalk

 

[Kapolei]

dead engine + empty plane ≠ dead engine + fully loaded plane

The NTSB should end up with a fairly definitive report. There have been several Cessna Caravan incidents in Hawaii in recent years with a couple involving fatalities. This is significantly smaller plane than a Caravan. Everyone got to make their own decisions on the level of risk you want to take. But no matter what anyone wants to say, flying in a small aircraft is substantially different risk than driving a car. And it is an added risk. Because unlike the car ride, you do not need to participate in this activity.

 

[Kapolei]

According to the Hawaii State Department of Health, motor vehicle crashes are the 4th leading cause of unintentional fatal injuries to Hawaii residents and average 87 deaths per year (counting cars and motorcycles together). The leading cause of unintentional fatal injuries in Hawaii are falls, averaging 108/yr. There are 159 suicides/year. There are far fewer aviation-related deaths. They don't even make it into the list of leading causes of death or accidents. They do cause bigger headlines, since they are still fairly rare.

I hate stats. But here goes:

There is a near zero percent chance of getting killed in a general aviation accident if you never participate in that activity. (I will concede that you could get hit on the ground by a plane that crashes through your roof)

Almost everyone in Hawaii (like 99.99%) does not participate in general aviation. So comparing deaths from something that 99.9% people participate in (driving in a car) to deaths from something that 99.99% do not participate in (flying in a GA aircraft) makes no sense to me whatsoever.

But I am not here to argue. Believe whatever makes you feel good.

 

[Henry M.]

My point was not that there is no risk in flying or engaging in aviation activities, but rather that those activities are not the most dangerous or irresponsible things you can do. Just swimming in the ocean can result in significant injuries or death. I feel I am just as likely to die or be hurt during my daily activities as I am from an ocassional ride in a small airplane. I drive so much more than I fly that overall i am just as likely to get hurt either way. I prefer to do things I enjoy than lock myself up for fear that something might happen if I walk out the door of my house.

I'm not trying to be argumentative! I'm just pointing out that certain events cause very emotional reactions, when in the grand scheme of things, they really aren't all that much worse than other activities we undertake out in nature and the world.

 

["Roger"]

While it is hard to get good comparisons (just for starters, when you are talking non-commercial planes that could mean corporate jet vs. private aircraft vs. tourist attraction ), it appears that the risk of dying on a single flight on a small plane is about 10 to 20 times higher than on an single car ride.

 

[Kapolei]

I am not suggesting that people not participate in any of these activities. My point is that people should educate themselves and know what they are getting into rather than just get excited over a tourist pamphlet in a hotel lobby or a yelp review. Personally, I would never participate in one of the those trike aircraft "training" flights. And I have no plans to jump out of a perfectly good airplane. I also don't have climbing an 8000 m peak on my bucket list. To each their own. Everyone (except for kids) is the pilot in command of their own lives. If you aren't comfortable with an activity, wish your partner the best, and tell them you will be waiting for them on the ground.

 

[slip]

We really got to know my wife's instructor pretty well because we talked to him for a few hours while we waited for some clouds to pass. Most of these activities are pretty safe and this was a plane crash. I don't think my wife would shy away from any other activity because of this but because she got to know him, it was quite a shock.

 

[jehb2]

This is 10+ years ago but when we took my husband's sister's family to the Big Island they were considering doing a helicopter tour. When we drove to Vocano National Park but we couldn't go down to the lava flow because only hours earlier a helicopter crashed killing the pilot, mom, dad, and 10 year old boy--the same age as my nephew traveling with us. There have been many crashes since but that is the one I remember and it saddens me.

 

[tompalm]

While it is hard to get good comparisons (just for starters, when you are talking non-commercial planes that could mean corporate jet vs. private aircraft vs. tourist attraction ), it appears that the risk of dying on a single flight on a small plane is about 10 to 20 times higher than on an single car ride.

This is true for so many reasons. I will list a few below. But, the sad thing is that a lot of pilots who carry people in their jump airplane do not have much experience and they have the minimum qualifications allowing them to fly the aircraft. Here are a few reasons why small aircraft have more accidents.

1. Lots of aircraft are old and poorly maintained.

2. Aircraft performance manuals are written to show best case performance when aircraft are new. But as engines get old, they do not perform as well and can't carry the loads advertised.

3. Accurate weight and balance during preflight doesn't always come out right after the aircraft is loaded. A young pilot might think it is no big deal.

4. Weather can throw everything off with high winds while pilots are in the clouds. Lots of pilots are capable of flying in clouds on instruments, but don't take into account that the wind is blowing them closer to a mountain. If they are not flying on an airway, or have accurate GPS information, they can get blown into a mountain. This has happened several times in Hawaii in the last 10 years and is the cause of lots of helicopter accidents.

5. There are lots of cases where pilots ran out of gas because they flew a route many times before and thought there would be no problem to do it again. But the aircraft wasn't quite full, or there were stronger head winds, or a fuel leak and the pilot didn't notice low fuel until to late.

Bottom line, the more training and experience a pilot has really pays off. Also, newer aircraft do not have as many maintenance problems. One study I read reported that the pilots with the highest risk have between 500-1000 hours because they have enough hours to be confident, but not enough hours to have seen a lot of real problems or emergencies.

 

[Kapolei]

I hope people don't read comments here the wrong way. I am a huge believer in general aviation. I also admire those that push their limits and climb 8000 meter peaks. Those that died on Everest in recent days should be honored. Likewise, the people that died in this accident should have no shame. My only issue is that people might get pulled in without knowing the risks. Risk is not a metaphysical concept. Risk is the possibility of an irreversible outcome. You cannot rewind the tape. You do not get a do over if your motorized hang glider collapses on itself when you are taking that joy ride that had five stars on yelp. Just sharing my opinion here. My sincerest condolences for all involved.

...

 

[bjones9942]

I would really like to see your facts to back up these assertions. My experience with jump pilots and their equipment has been the TOTAL opposite.

This is true for so many reasons. I will list a few below. But, the sad thing is that a lot of pilots who carry people in their jump airplane do not have much experience and they have the minimum qualifications allowing them to fly the aircraft. Here are a few reasons why small aircraft have more accidents.

1. Lots of aircraft are old and poorly maintained.

2. Aircraft performance manuals are written to show best case performance when aircraft are new. But as engines get old, they do not perform as well and can't carry the loads advertised.

3. Accurate weight and balance during preflight doesn't always come out right after the aircraft is loaded. A young pilot might think it is no big deal.

4. Weather can throw everything off with high winds while pilots are in the clouds. Lots of pilots are capable of flying in clouds on instruments, but don't take into account that the wind is blowing them closer to a mountain. If they are not flying on an airway, or have accurate GPS information, they can get blown into a mountain. This has happened several times in Hawaii in the last 10 years and is the cause of lots of helicopter accidents.

5. There are lots of cases where pilots ran out of gas because they flew a route many times before and thought there would be no problem to do it again. But the aircraft wasn't quite full, or there were stronger head winds, or a fuel leak and the pilot didn't notice low fuel until to late.

Bottom line, the more training and experience a pilot has really pays off. Also, newer aircraft do not have as many maintenance problems. One study I read reported that the pilots with the highest risk have between 500-1000 hours because they have enough hours to be confident, but not enough hours to have seen a lot of real problems or emergencies.

 

[bjones9942]

With all respect - I'm not sure how someone could get 'pulled in' to skydiving without knowing the risks after watching a safety video and signing the multi-page waiver. One would have to be living in a very narrow reality not to realize that falling from 10,000+ feet has a few associated risks.

I hope people don't read comments here the wrong way. I am a huge believer in general aviation. I also admire those that push their limits and climb 8000 meter peaks. Those that died on Everest in recent days should be honored. Likewise, the people that died in this accident should have no shame. My only issue is that people might get pulled in without knowing the risks. Risk is not a metaphysical concept. Risk is the possibility of an irreversible outcome. You cannot rewind the tape. You do not get a do over if your motorized hang glider collapses on itself when you are taking that joy ride that had five stars on yelp. Just sharing my opinion here. My sincerest condolences for all involved.

...

 

[Kapolei]

With all respect - I'm not sure how someone could get 'pulled in' to skydiving without knowing the risks after watching a safety video and signing the multi-page waiver. One would have to be living in a very narrow reality not to realize that falling from 10,000+ feet has a few associated risks.

I would think that it usually would start with a travel partner, or a friend or spouse. Or maybe one comes up with ideas themselves after looking through tripadvisor or groupon.

These activities are marketed as turnkey. You show up, pay the admission, listen to a lecture, and off you go

I am sure the risks of skydiving are much less than flying on one of those motorized hang gliders that have brought tourists to their deaths. I don't mean to bring any disrespect to professional skydivers.

The point is that these activities are made available to just about everyone that can walk. Just because it is available doesn't mean it is meant for everyone. And it is easy to get caught up in the moment. So yes, I do think people get pulled into an activity because a partner or someone in their group found a good deal. Hard to say no sometimes.

 

[philemer]

The plane was vintage 1965 so maintenance issues could be the cause. http://thegardenisland.com/news/loc...cle_a578332a-d614-56c8-8ce5-67f2ab605033.html

Condolences to all the family members. The two tourists were brothers.

 

[bjones9942]

Kapolei,

You are misinformed. Skydiving is not made available to 'just about anyone who can walk'. There are age restrictions. There are weight restrictions. Tandem instructors require a minimum of 500 jumps and 3 years in the sport, as well as taking a tandem instructor course - and they're the ones who control the student's jump. If a student elects to jump solo, via static line, there is a several hours long course you must take and pass before you can make your jump. There is also the multi-page waiver I referred to earlier that you must read and sign. With a tandem jump there is instruction on exactly what you are going to be asked to do and not do. While I will admit that outside the U.S.A. age and weight restrictions may be overlooked, the tandem instructor will always place the student's well being first. Always. And a student can say no at any time - even at the last second in the plane.

Oh, and you don't have to be able to walk in order to jump tandem. This is a sport that people of many abilities can participate in.

I'd ask that you take a few minutes and watch some of the 'look what I did yesterday' tandem jump videos on youtube (skip the 'scare the hell out of you' ones for now). You'll notice that there's one recurring thing in each and every one. The big smile on the student's faces when their jump is over. I speak from experience when I say it's not because the whole experience was terrifying - it's because it is one of the most amazing and freeing things you can ever experience. There are no words to explain it. One of my instructors said she tells people it's like suddenly seeing a new color.

I would think that it usually would start with a travel partner, or a friend or spouse. Or maybe one comes up with ideas themselves after looking through tripadvisor or groupon.

These activities are marketed as turnkey. You show up, pay the admission, listen to a lecture, and off you go

I am sure the risks of skydiving are much less than flying on one of those motorized hang gliders that have brought tourists to their deaths. I don't mean to bring any disrespect to professional skydivers.

The point is that these activities are made available to just about everyone that can walk. Just because it is available doesn't mean it is meant for everyone. And it is easy to get caught up in the moment. So yes, I do think people get pulled into an activity because a partner or someone in their group found a good deal. Hard to say no sometimes.

 

[Kapolei]

...... I speak from experience when I say it's not because the whole experience was terrifying - it's because it is one of the most amazing and freeing things you can ever experience. There are no words to explain it. One of my instructors said she tells people it's like suddenly seeing a new color.

I did a bungy jump in New Zealand about 25 years ago. That's as close as it is going to get for me. I don't even like taking amusement park rides any more. I appreciate the discussion nonetheless. And I agree, as others have said, that this is an aviation accident However, aviation is a component of skydiving. So I would want to know something about the aircraft I will be riding in if I ever change my mind and give it a try.

Again, my condolences for the families and friends of those involved.