Should I do Starwood/Westin?

[Tommy_Boy]

Hello there --- I recently "escaped" my Marriott Vacation Club ownership in Aruba...not because I didn't like the place, but because all the changes by Marriott (change to points, spinning off MVC into a potentially non-Marriott entity, etc.) was scaring me to much. I was lucky in that I sold my Platinum unit for the same price I bought it, and got some use out of it. So no harm, no foul.

My wife and I are not, however, entirely disenchanted with the timesharing concept, but we've now learned some good lessons about buying where you'd like to go each year, etc. We liked Aruba, but were not in love with it, and were disappointed it wasn't as easy to exchange out of it in Platinum season to other Caribbean (or ski) locales.

Now, we've been to USVI several times in the past, and even visited the Westin there, and thought it was fabulous. We're starting to get tempted by the 3BRs they have there. But before we go further --- as a Starwood/Westin owner: are you happy? Can you exchange to go other places you want with relative frequency? Would love, in particular, to hear from owners in St. John (is trading into Atlantis doable? Our son is a toddler now, so we're still a number of years away from even wanting to go to Atlantis, or elsewhere --- we love St. John's slow pace, etc., but could see preferring to trade it for other locations in the more distant future).

And what are the big "caveats"? Are there insane rumors about Starwood like there were about Marriott? (e.g., moving to some other system, or going bankrupt, or screwing the owners, etc)?

Would love any and all opinions and info. Many thanks!

 

[DeniseM]

Starwood has made numerous changes over the years - none of them benefited the owners.

If you buy - buy resale - it will save you 50-90%.

Since WSJ has very high upfront cost and maintenance fees, most people would never trade it. i.e. It's too expensive to trade. If you can't use it every year, then buy an every-other-year deed.

Harborside Atlantis is a hard trade, with little availability - you are very unlikely to be able to trade for school holidays. Fall (hurricane season) has the most availability - but it's limited.

For lots of info. about how Starwood works, see the FAQ at the top of this forum, and then tell use what you have questions about.

 

[Tommy_Boy]

Re:

Denise, thank you. Would never DREAM of doing anything other than resale, not to worry Bought by MVC Aruba via resale, after joining TUG. We're thinking of going in with friends of ours, and splitting the costs and maintenance fees, and then just using it every other year. With that level of financial commitment, exchanging one year for somewhere else seems somewhat more reasonable, though you make a very good point that most places would be unequal trades. Only places I could imagine wanting to trade into would be Atlantis, or one of the other preferred Starwood places.

Based on what you're saying, I'd assume, in a way, if one wanted to exchange b/w Atlantis and St. John, it would be better to buy the Atlantis, and then trade into St. John, rather than vice versa?

I did read the FAQ, thanks. I thought it seemed relatively straightforward.

One thing I'm not clear on: looks like resales can be fixed weeks OR floating, or EOT, etc.?

Starwood has made numerous changes over the years - none of them benefited the owners.

If you buy - buy resale - it will save you 50-90%.

Since WSJ has very high upfront cost and maintenance fees, most people would never trade it. i.e. It's too expensive to trade. If you can't use it every year, then buy an every-other-year deed.

Harborside Atlantis is a hard trade, with little availability - you are very unlikely to be able to trade for school holidays. Fall (hurricane season) has the most availability - but it's limited.

For lots of info. about how Starwood works, see the FAQ at the top of this forum, and then tell use what you have questions about.

 

[Ken555]

We're thinking of going in with friends of ours, and splitting the costs and maintenance fees, and then just using it every other year. With that level of financial commitment, exchanging one year for somewhere else seems somewhat more reasonable[...]

I would caution you against this plan. It would be vastly simpler and easier for you in the long-term to simply purchase an EOY deed if you intend to use it every other year. Why make life complicated with friends when this is an available option?

 

[DeniseM]

Based on what you're saying, I'd assume, in a way, if one wanted to exchange b/w Atlantis and St. John, it would be better to buy the Atlantis, and then trade into St. John, rather than vice versa?

No - WSJ is actually even a harder trade.

One thing I'm not clear on: looks like resales can be fixed weeks OR floating, or EOT, etc.?

Yes - there are both fixed and floating weeks at the resort, depending on the phase, and EOY in both phases.

 

[Westin5Star]

Trading is difficult during prime seasons and holiday weeks at WSJ. It is difficult to trade to HRA during kids weeks (summer and school vacation times).

My experience has been that you can get what you want to WSJ or HRA as long as you are willing to travel other than the times I mentioned above. Assuming that I am correct, you should buy WKV which has a very low MF each year and then trade to WSJ and HRA.

As Denise mentioned Starwood has made many changes over the years and by far they have not benefited owners. The resorts within the system are not run as well as the hotels IMO, but the service levels are manageable but do vary from resort to resort and from year to year. I chose Starwood because of the locations (St. John, Atlantis, Hawaii, Cancun, and Disney World). Overall, I am very happy with my decision to buy Starwood (although I wish that they woudl raise MFs and give better service). I wish you the best in your decision.

 

[LisaRex]

If you're disenchanted with Marriott, I don't think you'll be more enchanted with Starwood. They are businesses and their goal is to make money. If that means that they greatly exaggerate the cost of running the place so that they pad their wallets, then that's what they'll do. If it means that they'll raise MFs 10%+ per year, that's what they'll do. If it means that they'll force owners to pony up for delinquent owners and then turn around and rent out the empty units without reimbursing us a dime, that's what they'll do.

If I were you, I'd rent. No contracts. No trying to figure out the system. Just search for a decent rental price on Redweek and enjoy your vacations.

 

[Tommy_Boy]

EOY deeds

Do EOY deeds require smaller annual maintenance fees? (or only semi-annual maintenance)? And I assume they're cheaper on resale than every year ones? Thanks.

I would caution you against this plan. It would be vastly simpler and easier for you in the long-term to simply purchase an EOY deed if you intend to use it every other year. Why make life complicated with friends when this is an available option?

 

[DeniseM]

Do EOY deeds require smaller annual maintenance fees? (or only semi-annual maintenance)? And I assume they're cheaper on resale than every year ones? Thanks.

Yes - it's half the annual maintenance fee + $30 every year + $119 every year for SVN membership. You pay half the MF each year.

Also cheaper upfront.

 

[Tommy_Boy]

Question for LisaRex

Interesting point...so I assume you're an owner who would rather not be? Would you get out if you could?

If you're disenchanted with Marriott, I don't think you'll be more enchanted with Starwood. They are businesses and their goal is to make money. If that means that they greatly exaggerate the cost of running the place so that they pad their wallets, then that's what they'll do. If it means that they'll raise MFs 10%+ per year, that's what they'll do. If it means that they'll force owners to pony up for delinquent owners and then turn around and rent out the empty units without reimbursing us a dime, that's what they'll do.

If I were you, I'd rent. No contracts. No trying to figure out the system. Just search for a decent rental price on Redweek and enjoy your vacations.

 

[LisaRex]

Interesting point...so I assume you're an owner who would rather not be? Would you get out if you could?

Absolutely.

 

[Ken555]

Interesting point...so I assume you're an owner who would rather not be? Would you get out if you could?

Many of us are disenchanted with SVN as a company, but greatly enjoy the resorts. Depending on how/when/where you travel, you'll either enjoy SVN or not. Some, like Lisa, bought direct from the developer and then found reasons to question their integrity (ie. WKORV-N "ocean front" units not being true ocean front units). You need to read our criticisms of Starwood in context, and that may take time for you.

 

[Bubbasgonefishin]

I agree... trying to get out of our timeshare also. If I could turn back time I wouldn't do it... but I did buy resale so Its not as bad as it could be.

While I love staying at the WSJ I would rent. We banked last year and have reservations for July for this year. I didn't have any problem moving my week from September to July. But, I haven't seen WSJ on Interval that we can book our banked week. We are talking about using it to go to Aruba.

 

[LisaRex]

Some, like Lisa, bought direct from the developer and then found reasons to question their integrity (ie. WKORV-N "ocean front" units not being true ocean front units).

You are mistaken. I didn't buy from the developer; I bought resale. And, yes, I think that they played fast and loose with the term "Ocean Front" especially in comparison to the south property. (A thought shared by Maui Revealed author, BTW.)

However, my biggest beef with them is that they used teaser MF rates to lure people in, then jacked them up significantly once the resort was sold out. And by significantly, I mean they doubled. Starwood made their huge profits on the front end, then turned around and are making huge profits on the back-end as well. Not nice, not ethical, and contradictory to their own marketing angle of a "pre-paid vacation." $400/night in MFs is hardly a "pre-paid vacation."

 

[fasha39]

However, my biggest beef with them is that they used teaser MF rates to lure people in, then jacked them up significantly once the resort was sold out. Not nice, not ethical, and contradictory to their own marketing angle of a "pre-paid vacation." $400/night in MFs is hardly a "pre-paid vacation."

Did you ask if Starwood was subsidizing the MF's when you bought?

I’m just as irritated as you about the rise in MF’s but it’s not accurate to pin it all on the “evil empire”. Have the costs increased to run your house since you bought it? HVAC, water, electricity etc. Your employer isn’t shy to take price increases using similar rationale as Starwood.

 

[LisaRex]

Did you ask if Starwood was subsidizing the MF's when you bought?

Yes, costs rise. But Starwood artificially keep costs low during the sales phase by subsidizing. Once they sell out, the subsidy ends. Why?

 

[fasha39]

Yes, costs rise. But Starwood artificially keep costs low during the sales phase by subsidizing. Once they sell out, the subsidy ends. Why?

If I'm not mistaken they are still subsidizing WKORVN and it's sold out?

 

[DeniseM]

Have the costs increased to run your house since you bought it?

Yes, but they haven't DOUBLED in 8 years! Even with this year's decrease, my MF's at WKORV have DOUBLED!

 

[tomandrobin]

Still loving my Starwood weeks. Do not like the maintenance fees.

HRA and WSJ are the two hardest resorts to exchange in. Shoulder seasons are easier, peak seasons are extremely difficult.

I like my EY HRA, wish I would have bought WSJ as EOY...but two of them the same EOY.

 

[LisaRex]

If I'm not mistaken they are still subsidizing WKORVN and it's sold out?

No, the subsidy at WKORV-N dried up 2 years ago even though the board had built it into their budget. The letter they sent with the MF invoice said that since we'd saved so much on utilities, they were going to withdraw their subsidy. It was discussed at length here.

 

[DavidnRobin]

We love our SVO resorts - just not the escalating MFs. I wish we spent less for our resale WKORV OFD (and perhaps should have considered OFC in hindsight), but it was the going price in 2005/06. I wish we did not buy WPORV from SVO, but again... hindsight - and love the Princeville area (in summer) and EOY is good enough as we like Maui better when the total package is considered.

 

[Ken555]

You are mistaken. I didn't buy from the developer; I bought resale. And, yes, I think that they played fast and loose with the term "Ocean Front" especially in comparison to the south property. (A thought shared by Maui Revealed author, BTW.)

However, my biggest beef with them is that they used teaser MF rates to lure people in, then jacked them up significantly once the resort was sold out. And by significantly, I mean they doubled. Starwood made their huge profits on the front end, then turned around and are making huge profits on the back-end as well. Not nice, not ethical, and contradictory to their own marketing angle of a "pre-paid vacation." $400/night in MFs is hardly a "pre-paid vacation."

Oops. See what happens when I'm at a resort? I've been making a few errors on TUG lately. Sorry about that.

Otherwise, you have quite valid complaints, in my opinion. I'm leaving WKORV tomorrow after being here two weeks. It's still a great resort. And, I was lucky enough to get a studio in building 5 4th floor - "ocean front". Great view but right over the pool and restaurant/bar, not exactly what I would consider ocean front. My definition of ocean front includes peace, calm and a bit of tranquility. After all, the image that comes to mind is nothing but ocean and sand! Still, it's a great ocean view, that's for sure.

 

[Tommy_Boy]

What do rentals typically cost?

What have week rentals for the 3BR units typically run, does anyone know (or has anyone successfully rented out their place)? $3k? More? Thanks.

I agree... trying to get out of our timeshare also. If I could turn back time I wouldn't do it... but I did buy resale so Its not as bad as it could be.

While I love staying at the WSJ I would rent. We banked last year and have reservations for July for this year. I didn't have any problem moving my week from September to July. But, I haven't seen WSJ on Interval that we can book our banked week. We are talking about using it to go to Aruba.

 

[LisaRex]

3 bdrms at HRA are listing for $4500-$8500 on Redweek, but the only ones that have sold recently were between $4500 and $6000.

 

[sail27bill]

Tommy Boy--I own at Vistana Villages and Harborside, both both direct from the developer. If I could do it all over again, I would not have bought at SVV and bought an EOY at St. John instead. With 2 school aged children, I am tied to the school calendar. I have tried to trade into WSJ during the summer months at 8 months out and had no luck. I was able to trade my SVV for a week in a one bedroom at Harborside once so I could have 2 weeks back to back, but had to cancel it when my plans changed. The MF's have doubled in the 6+ years I have owned at SVV and you don't get much in terms of the amenities. The MF's are reasonable I feel at Harborside but I do not know how long that will hold. Starwood's MFs are pretty high when compared to other resorts which is a big issue to most here.

I really do like the Starwood system...I almost bought at HHI direct from Marriott years ago, but liked the idea that Starwood was set up as quasi points and have never had a problem with availability at the 12 month mark. If you buy one of the Mandatory TSs resale, you could trade within the SVN system. FWIW, I am happy with the resorts, and am trying to buy more. I just cancelled a WSJ purchase as there was an issue with clear title, but I hope to try again as I do not like the hassle of the uncertainty of exchanging. Although I have to note that I have gotten great trades through II that have made me happy, the odds of finding WSJ and Harborside during peak times are slim to none.
Personally I would buy more TSs, but I have lots of friends who own Marriott and I usually rent from them if I need more weeks. I usually travel 5-6 weeks a year, so I need more TSs, but renting has an addded benefit. I can usually rent for not more than MFs, so I am not locked into the same locations every year. Plus the getaways on II are great. Only you know what will make you happy, so good luck with your decisions. Just remember, the Starwood board is great at answering questions, so ask away.

Regards,
Anita